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Speaker 1: Now, about ten weeks ago a bit of a barbecue

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Speaker 1: was going to be arranged to talk about the issue

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Speaker 1: of gill netting in the Northern Territory in top End Waters.

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Speaker 1: Now it turned into a massive event, with more than

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Speaker 1: two hundred people turning up to discuss their concerns. We

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Speaker 1: also know that there has been vision emerge over recent

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Speaker 1: days of gill netting happening in an area where it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be. We spoke to Joel about the Minister for

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Speaker 1: Recreational Fishing about this yesterday. If you missed that interview,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to part of what he had to say.

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Speaker 2: We've had it reported to us, Katie and so I

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Speaker 2: had a meeting on Monday with anti fisheries instructing them

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Speaker 2: to go and investigate. Apart from that, we take it

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Speaker 2: seriously because there are agreements between Aboriginal landowners between the government.

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Speaker 2: There are a number of historical decisions and agreements that

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Speaker 2: have been met. You know, this is going back a

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Speaker 2: number of years. You know that need to be abided by. Now,

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Speaker 2: if the rules have been broken, then we will act accordingly.

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Speaker 2: We'll make some sort of statement in the very near

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Speaker 2: future about our fans Wishley. So they've put an extensive

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Speaker 2: list of requests to government. They've done it both the

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Speaker 2: government under the opposition. So we're working through that. We'll

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Speaker 2: make a public statement in the near future about what

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Speaker 2: we can and can't commit to leading into the twenty

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Speaker 2: fourth of August.

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Speaker 1: So that was Jill about on the show yesterday. Now

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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio is former commercial fisherman Peter Palitas.

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Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Peter, Morning Katie.

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Speaker 4: Lovely to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: And we've also got longtime Territory and organizer of that

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Speaker 1: recent event and well owner of Dream Media and probably

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Speaker 1: reluctant spokesperson on this I'm not sure, but long term

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Speaker 1: Territory and Chris O'Brien.

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Speaker 4: Geto Chris, how are you kay? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Really well, great to have you both in the studio

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Speaker 1: this morning. Now, firstly I might go to you, Chris,

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Speaker 1: why was that event organized?

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Speaker 5: Look, firstly, thanks for having us. We're so excited to

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Speaker 5: be here. But I think both of us have got

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Speaker 5: to say we're not politicians. Where Dad's fathers, members of

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Speaker 5: the community not used to be reluctant to be here.

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Speaker 5: But what was happening was we were listening to a

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Speaker 5: conversation in the community and we were sitting back in

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Speaker 5: our armchairs thinking someone else is going to do something

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Speaker 5: about it, but nothing was happening. So we said, let's

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Speaker 5: organize a group, maybe twenty thirty people to get together,

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Speaker 5: and the top end of town came out and had

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Speaker 5: a really high impactful event where we discussed the future

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Speaker 5: of gilnetting in the Northern Territory. And it's been an amazing,

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Speaker 5: I guess, roller coaster from that point, and we feel

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Speaker 5: like we've we've been dragged into something very reluctantly. We've

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Speaker 5: gone and met with the leaders, we've met with. We've

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Speaker 5: thought we would go around with pamphlets and sort of

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Speaker 5: that's what you do. We go and sort of tash

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Speaker 5: and then we go and sort Leah and we go

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Speaker 5: and see Eva. But it's been a really interesting journey,

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Speaker 5: and I think Peter and I have landed in one

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Speaker 5: place that applies to all territories. And Pete's got the

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Speaker 5: experience of being a commercial fisherman and also a reckfisherman.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going to let hand the banner over to

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Speaker 5: him and tell me about what I think the three

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Speaker 5: things are.

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Speaker 4: Pet I mean, what are the concerns.

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Speaker 6: I think that the concerns are that the goalposts have

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Speaker 6: changed so much in the last forty years. Forty years ago,

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Speaker 6: we were out in the coastline. There was coastline available

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Speaker 6: to everyone, especially the commercial fishermen, and that's all changed

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Speaker 6: eighty five ninety percent of that coastlines in our closed.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest problem.

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Speaker 6: What that's done is actually put commercial fishermen, recreational fishermen,

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Speaker 6: and traditional owners on top of each other. And from that,

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Speaker 6: no one's actually grabbed hold of it, made any changes,

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Speaker 6: made any restructuring or how to look at that, and

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Speaker 6: it's caused a lot of problems for those three stakeholders.

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Speaker 3: And from that, I think what we've.

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Speaker 6: Seen and what we've landed in is it seemed at

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Speaker 6: the start to be a lot of conflict between those

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Speaker 6: three stakeholders, but really it's the leaders that we're all

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Speaker 6: looking to and looking for to make some decisions around that.

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Speaker 1: So at this point in time, I mean, is are

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Speaker 1: people wanting the gill netting to continue on? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we know that reck fishers aren't, but what are you

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Speaker 1: hearing from those discussions that.

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Speaker 6: Had so when this barbecue and function first came together,

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Speaker 6: we felt as territories and we were all born here

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Speaker 6: and grew up in our families, have been there for

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Speaker 6: you know, seventy five odid years. That certainly, as recreational fishermen,

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Speaker 6: that was our wish list, our dream, you know, thinking

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Speaker 6: about the future, and then we see over the last

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Speaker 6: several years the traditional owners are on the same page.

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Speaker 6: So we always felt it was just these two key

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Speaker 6: stakeholders that were pushing this banner. But we reached out

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Speaker 6: to some of the license holders and they reached back

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Speaker 6: and said, we actually want to exit this industry as

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Speaker 6: well as a gillnet industry. And that's what's super super

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Speaker 6: interesting if that the three key stakeholders involved here all

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Speaker 6: recognized and all see what's happening here, and everyone's change.

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Speaker 3: Why aren't we doing change?

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Speaker 1: And so what it sounds to me like we're waiting

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Speaker 1: on the government to make it a tough decision.

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Speaker 5: Look that's and look we're not qualified, but we're getting very,

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Speaker 5: very frustrated and we're looking for leaders to lead. We understand, well,

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Speaker 5: we thought we understand its complex. But when you get

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Speaker 5: all three stakeholders saying we all want out, we all

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Speaker 5: want to sell and we don't want gillnets in the territory.

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Speaker 5: We're getting confused on is this just being used as

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Speaker 5: a political ping pong game to score brownie points, get

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Speaker 5: to score political points. We as a community in the

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Speaker 5: Northern Territory want answers on this and it's so important

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Speaker 5: that we fix this for the future. Gilnetting is getting

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Speaker 5: closed or has been closed down in Queensland, closed down

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Speaker 5: in the Gulf. It's coming around. I believe the rope

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Speaker 5: has closed. It's coming and I think all of us

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Speaker 5: a community need to get on board here and really

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Speaker 5: ask our leaders why why can't we get a yes

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Speaker 5: and a no on this subject?

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Speaker 1: Now I've seen some of the vision that I believe

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Speaker 1: you you took, Chris, I mean talk us through what

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Speaker 1: you have seen when I mean for both of you,

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Speaker 1: and some of the vision that you are being sent

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Speaker 1: by concerned territorians as well.

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Speaker 5: So again, we don't know how we ended up in

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Speaker 5: this spot, but people are sending us footage from all

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Speaker 5: over the territory. In that particular net, I was in

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Speaker 5: Peter's boat at least eighty dead fish. We reported it.

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Speaker 5: We went through all the channels. I don't believe any

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Speaker 5: charges were laid. It was very confusing when they were

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Speaker 5: inside the into title zone. They weren't one hundred percent KDI.

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Speaker 5: They were inside, the nets were set and there was

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Speaker 5: dead fish in there. And that's happening all along, and

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Speaker 5: this is really important. I think we as territories we

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Speaker 5: need to recognize it and give our commercial gill letters

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Speaker 5: a way to exit this industry really respectfully.

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Speaker 1: So are they all looking at exiting or is that

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Speaker 1: I mean you've obviously spoken to some of them.

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Speaker 4: Have you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we've had conversations. Four out of the five have

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Speaker 6: indicated they want to exit, and they want to exit

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Speaker 6: with some respect and with some dignity. And I think

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Speaker 6: that as territorians we should actually allow that to happen

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Speaker 6: and actually shake their hands and say thank you, because

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Speaker 6: it's a hard job. It's not an easy job there

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Speaker 6: all hours, weather, the whole lot. I think where it

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Speaker 6: sort of gets a bit tricky sometimes when we sort

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Speaker 6: of demonize all this.

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Speaker 3: They're not doing anything wrong.

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Speaker 6: It's it's our cousins and our brothers, as our sisters,

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Speaker 6: Our kids go to school, we go to barbecues together.

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Speaker 3: This is not a fight between neighbors.

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Speaker 6: Well, we're actually saying here is hey, let's stop the fight,

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Speaker 6: let's work together on this, Let's see what's best for

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Speaker 6: the territory.

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Speaker 3: And that's what this conversation is about.

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Speaker 6: And if I can say one more thing, Chris just

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Speaker 6: spoke about the East Coast and I think in total,

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Speaker 6: I think two hundred and twenty six million dollars to

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Speaker 6: day has been invested there to slowly phase out Barron

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Speaker 6: Munday fishing. Oh sorry, phase out the gill nets. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: we're talking fifteen to twenty million dollars in the Northern territory.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 6: There's over eleven thousand kilometers a coastline for fifteen to

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Speaker 6: twenty million dollar investment in the territory's future.

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Speaker 1: So you were saying that's what it would cost. Twenty

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Speaker 1: million dollars is the number that if you know.

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Speaker 6: That, they are the numbers we're talking he nuts as

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Speaker 6: an investment for the Northern Church for eleven thousand kilometers

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Speaker 6: off coastline, to save the jugons, to save the turtles,

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Speaker 6: to get our stocks back to abundant levels, to have

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Speaker 6: good experience for our tourism, for our recreational it's just

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Speaker 6: a no brain for.

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Speaker 1: Us and so in terms of that dollar value, I mean,

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Speaker 1: where where has that come from?

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Speaker 4: I'm not expecting you to, you know, to.

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Speaker 1: Talk about those commercial fishermen, but is that just a

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Speaker 1: figure that has been raised with you both.

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Speaker 5: Shoot with a straight bat here, Come on, Yes, numbers

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Speaker 5: are on the table.

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Speaker 6: Numbers on the table. They come from the from the

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Speaker 6: license holders. Right, was that equivalent in writing?

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Speaker 5: In writing, that's sixty thousand recreational fishermen putting in two

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Speaker 5: hundred and fifty dollars and we the community on it.

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Speaker 5: It's a weird thing to say, but we can secure

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Speaker 5: our future and secure I guess barrel mundy fishing for

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Speaker 5: the economy, for all the stakeholders in that, for teos, everybody.

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Speaker 5: This is not a big number, such a small number,

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Speaker 5: but we can't understand why we can't get to have

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Speaker 5: a really robust conversation on what's good for territorians.

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Speaker 1: Look, I know there'll be some people listening who are thinking,

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Speaker 1: I want to be able to still go buy a

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Speaker 1: piece of barrow moundy at a restaurant and for it to.

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Speaker 4: Not cost fifty bucks.

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Speaker 1: You know, what do you say to people that are

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Speaker 1: maybe listening this morning, going hang on is this going

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Speaker 1: to mean that the cost of seafood skyrockets.

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Speaker 6: I think that we're all the same. We actually want

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Speaker 6: to have seafood. Barre Mundy wild caught barret money on

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Speaker 6: a plate in Northern Territory. We absolutely agree with it.

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Speaker 6: And there is places on the Queens and Kas We're

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Speaker 6: not inventing the wheel. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

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Speaker 6: It's happening everywhere else. So there's a there's a gentleman

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Speaker 6: down there, for instance, by the name of Chris Bolton,

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Speaker 6: and he is kicking goals everywhere.

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Speaker 3: He does wine court.

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Speaker 6: He's selling his products into Sydney, Melbourne and they are

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Speaker 6: in high demand.

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Speaker 3: I think he was with Carl Steph Novich.

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Speaker 6: Yesterday morning on the morning show Cooking, and it is

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Speaker 6: just a premium product. Now for us as Territorious, we

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Speaker 6: look at that, why couldn't we reproduce the Chris Bolton's

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Speaker 6: in in the Daily River, in the in the Arnam Bay,

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Speaker 6: in Ropa River, all these locations where we have these communities.

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Speaker 6: So we're so proud who love their country and they

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Speaker 6: can be the Chris Boltons of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the other part of this discussion as well.

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Speaker 1: And obviously we'll need to speak to you, to those

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Speaker 1: tos or certainly to the land councils that respect them

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Speaker 1: or that represent them. But you know, is there like,

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Speaker 1: is there opportunity there as well then for indigenous landholders

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Speaker 1: and for indigenous people to actually you know, to have

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Speaker 1: businesses and to be able to get things moving as well.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, and which territorium wouldn't want to promote, support, encourage

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Speaker 6: and be proud of that. Every territory doesn't matter what

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Speaker 6: your background, what your culture, Every territorium would be proud

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Speaker 6: of anyone who rolls or sleeves up and has a go.

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Speaker 5: So there's two sides of that equation. I think there's

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Speaker 5: two types of practices. But I think if the government

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Speaker 5: is thinking, and we don't know what they're thinking, they're

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Speaker 5: seem to be holding onto their cards. If they're thinking

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Speaker 5: of buying back partially the gill nets and then potentially

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Speaker 5: partially either moving them on or selling them to another company,

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Speaker 5: either to an Australian company, Japanese, Chinese, Aboriginal, whoever it is.

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Speaker 5: It's still the fact that the gill nets are still

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Speaker 5: operation and gill nets indiscriminately kill everything. They killed Jugong's turtles,

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Speaker 5: crocodile everything.

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Speaker 4: So that's the issue really.

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Speaker 5: So for me, none of us have got a crystal ball,

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Speaker 5: But it doesn't make sense why nobody this is a

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Speaker 5: no brainer. We're all businessmen, we made a thousand decisions

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Speaker 5: a day. It's only fifteen million dollars. Let's get the

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Speaker 5: deal done. Let's get it over the line. Kill the

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Speaker 5: gill nets once and for all, and secure our territory coastlines.

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Speaker 1: Look, some people listening are going to go hang on

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Speaker 1: a sec we're eleven billion dollars in disk But to me,

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Speaker 1: like you've seen, you're talking about here the Northern Terror

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Speaker 1: Trees coastline, you're talking about our waterways. You're talking about

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Speaker 1: the future of Barramundu fishing as well, for everybody, for reckfishes,

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Speaker 1: for everybody, and for those businesses. And you've got to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you make the right decisions in this space.

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Speaker 5: Look, we're not the experts, but we're really passionate. Our

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Speaker 5: kids are growing up here. We all want our grandkids

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Speaker 5: to be able to go down and and fish and

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Speaker 5: catch fish. So we're talking about a jetty of nineteen million,

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Speaker 5: and I go, that's brilliant. But before we do that,

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Speaker 5: let's fix the gill nets first. Then maybe take every

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Speaker 5: year we restock the harbor so that every tour operator

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Speaker 5: can catch barrel Mondey in the harbor. Then put the

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Speaker 5: jetty in. Hey, now we're thinking, sorry, I'm passionate.

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Speaker 6: Were sitting there, Chris, you you talked about the economic

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Speaker 6: part of it. For instance, I think last week on

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Speaker 6: the last several days, and you were talking about some

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Speaker 6: incidences in Arnhem Bay and I think there was five

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Speaker 6: or six tourists come up from Melbourne or thereabouts and

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Speaker 6: they're out out in the middle of no when they've

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Speaker 6: spent fifty or sixty thousand dollars to go out there

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Speaker 6: to our remoteness, to what we actually have, that's what

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Speaker 6: we have with middle of nowhere, and they come across gillnets. Okay,

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Speaker 6: now they go back to their families of five and

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Speaker 6: six and now that's twenty five sixty, now the one

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Speaker 6: hundred people of their network, and they say, you know what,

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Speaker 6: don't go to the territory. We spent one day traveling,

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Speaker 6: one day here. We spend at hotels, restaurants, whatever it is.

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Speaker 6: We get the middle of nowhere there's Gillnets. So that's

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Speaker 6: one hundred people of lost opportunity. One hundred people. So

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Speaker 6: we're not just talking about hey, we're trying to grow

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Speaker 6: in a cond We're trying to protect it.

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Speaker 3: This is how you protect it.

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Speaker 6: So we said it was what we wanted those five

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Speaker 6: people to go back to the one hundred people, say,

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Speaker 6: get up there, what are you guys doing Middle and

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Speaker 6: no where the rest of the world's all developed.

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Speaker 3: This place isn't and it's amazing. Get up there and

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Speaker 3: feel it, envy it.

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Speaker 1: So what is your message this morning? I mean, what

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Speaker 1: is the message for the government today.

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Speaker 6: I'd say there's three key stakeholders. You've got tos, you've

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Speaker 6: got Territorians, and you've got license holders, and all three

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Speaker 6: want the deal done. There's no other parties involved. Don't

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Speaker 6: get tangled up with anyone else telling you now the

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Speaker 6: three stakeholders, they're all involved. The cost is fifteen to

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Speaker 6: twenty million dollars to invest in our future. Please lead us.

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Speaker 6: We're looking for leadership both sides. This is not one

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Speaker 6: side or the other. Please show some leadership. We vote

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Speaker 6: for you.

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Speaker 3: We're territorianes, we pay our taxes. This is what we want.

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Speaker 6: This is what we expect, fifteen to twenty million bucks

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Speaker 6: for Territory's future, for all Territorians.

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Speaker 1: Well, Chris, Brian and Peter Palitis, lovely to have you

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Speaker 1: on the show this morning. Really appreciate you both coming

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Speaker 1: in and having a chat with us, and I've no

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Speaker 1: doubt that we'll hopefully be able to discuss this further

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Speaker 1: and hopefully here's some kind of response from the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government in coming days. You're a champion mate thinking,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much for your time this morning.