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Speaker 1: And we know that changes to the government's cap on

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Speaker 1: alcohol sales as a proportion of grocery sales at corner stores,

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Speaker 1: it's creating a big challenge for small businesses, some having

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Speaker 1: to shut shop and really try to meet those requirements. Now,

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Speaker 1: you might have seen in the INNT news a couple

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Speaker 1: of days ago there was one of those corner stores

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Speaker 1: in that situation at Woggut Beach. But joining me on

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Speaker 1: the line right now is Shelley Lay from zacicoli IgA.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Shelley, Hi Katie, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really good?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: Tell me how have things been going when it comes

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Speaker 1: to those changes to cap the grog sales for you guys, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We're still under a lot of pressure to manage that,

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Speaker 2: just like the Wogglett Beach people owners there. We just

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Speaker 2: had the end of a quarter so for that ended

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Speaker 2: on the thirtieth of September, and to ensure that we

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Speaker 2: did not exceed the twenty five percink cap, we had

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Speaker 2: to shut the bottle shop on Fridays and Saturdays for

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Speaker 2: the last six weeks of the quarter to ensure that

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Speaker 2: we met that cap.

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Speaker 1: Shelley, that's when most people would like to grab a

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Speaker 1: bottle of wine with their groceries exactly.

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Speaker 2: And all that is doing is pushing people to the

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Speaker 2: big guys up the roads that are open and are unrestricted.

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Speaker 2: They can sell you as much as they want. And

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Speaker 2: this is just a real attack on small business.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you hearing as well? Like we know

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Speaker 1: that Walt Beach have said that they're in this situation.

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Speaker 1: You're in this situation and how many weeks have you

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Speaker 1: had to do this for?

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Speaker 2: Well, so we had to look at the whole quarter.

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Speaker 2: So the end of last quarter, halfway through verse six weeks,

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Speaker 2: we traded as normal, and then we started and we

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Speaker 2: could see if we kept trading the same way, the

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Speaker 2: percentage of alcohol dollars sold was going to exceed the

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Speaker 2: twenty five percent dollar cap. So how once again, how

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Speaker 2: that works is it's not based on volume. It's based

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Speaker 2: on price, including excise tax which the government takes. So

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Speaker 2: as an example, if you sold one hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: worth of groceries and grows in a week, only twenty

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Speaker 2: five thousand of that so twenty five percent could come

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Speaker 2: from the alcohol sales. So this is where it's not balanced.

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Speaker 2: It's not even this has been in place where I

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Speaker 2: think about five years since the Riley Review, there's been

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Speaker 2: no revision to increasing this caps. Essentially, if this is

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Speaker 2: how it's going to be measured, but it's not the

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Speaker 2: way to measure it because our alcohol sales in volume

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Speaker 2: isn't changing. It's just the price of alcohol is going

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Speaker 2: up because of excise tax which the government takes and

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Speaker 2: it's done every six months.

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Speaker 1: Shelley, how big can impact is this having on your business?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's detrimental because on the days that we are

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Speaker 2: closed in the bottle shop, people are then buying their

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Speaker 2: alcohol at another liquor store, and the other liquor stores

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Speaker 2: have a grocery shop right next door, so then they

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Speaker 2: buy all of their ingredients for the items that they're

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Speaker 2: wanting to cook for, what's their takeaways, whatever they're wanting

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Speaker 2: to eat, they're buying at the grocery store right next

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Speaker 2: door to the bottle shop. So not only are we

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Speaker 2: losing the alcohol income, but we're losing the grocery sales.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's detrimental to the whole business. It's a

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Speaker 2: convenience offering and that's what we are known for. So

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Speaker 2: it's just not working and it's so sad to see

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Speaker 2: good Territorians going under while the big guys just get

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Speaker 2: to thrive. You know, it's just it's not fair.

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Speaker 1: What tell me in terms of other businesses that are

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Speaker 1: you know, are there other businesses in a similar situation

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Speaker 1: to you? I mean, we both just touched on wogg

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Speaker 1: at Beach, but I've spoken to at least one other

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Speaker 1: store and I won't name them because I don't know

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Speaker 1: that they want to be named, but I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: at least one other who's said a very similar story

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Speaker 1: to what you're telling me that it is having a

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Speaker 1: detrimental impact for them.

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Speaker 2: Oh totally. And I look, I do get a number

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Speaker 2: of businesses calling me and and help us, Please help us,

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Speaker 2: because it's like, I'll give you an example of a

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Speaker 2: grocery store liqu a license like ours and Howard Springs.

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Speaker 2: They've got a celebrations there, they're under the twenty five

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Speaker 2: percent cap. But next door is a pub that has

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Speaker 2: opened seven days a week and can sell unrestricted alcohol.

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Speaker 2: So if you close down the IgA celebrations at Howard Brings,

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Speaker 2: they can just walk next door and buy as much

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Speaker 2: as somebody wants. So how is this effective? It's not

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Speaker 2: stopping the demand there is a demand, and this by

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Speaker 2: shutting up small people down, it is not helping the problem.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the government's just doing this to

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Speaker 1: try and make operators like yourself, you know, opt for

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Speaker 1: that buyback situation, the buyback of the license.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, they might have that might be a tactic, Katie,

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Speaker 2: But I've now got the pri I've got the evidence

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Speaker 2: that shows that if you don't have the convenience offering

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Speaker 2: of the liquor store next door, people take their entire

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Speaker 2: business elsewhere. And at the moment, when we're having to

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Speaker 2: close two days a week, I can see how that

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Speaker 2: affects us. Imagine if I had to do that seven

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Speaker 2: days a week. So I can see that the model

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Speaker 2: that it doesn't work because if it's available somewhere else together,

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Speaker 2: people will just stop where it's convenient. We're so busy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know myself, I was going I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be stopping twice. It doesn't make sense to do that.

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Speaker 2: So I really think that the whole there is a problem. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: but the wrong people are being attacked here. And can

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Speaker 2: I just give you another stat if every single grocery

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Speaker 2: bottle shop was closed down, well we represent seven percent

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Speaker 2: of the alcohol sold in the entire territory, So close

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Speaker 2: us all down and only seven percent of the volume

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Speaker 2: would be taken away.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, and you know, this is

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Speaker 1: what we hear so often even when we talk about

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Speaker 1: alcohol restrictions, because we've spoken about it quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: And I know that even a few weeks ago, we

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Speaker 1: had Marion Scrimjaw, the member for Lingiari, on the show,

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Speaker 1: and she'd said, you know, O Katie, we've got people

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Speaker 1: coming in from communities that are doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we do need to have a discussion about changes

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the ways in which people can

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Speaker 1: access alcohol. But you know, from what we're seeing at

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Speaker 1: the moment, you know, I think there's things that we

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Speaker 1: could be doing a bit better, Like we could be

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Speaker 1: using things like the BDR to be more beneficial and

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Speaker 1: to stop people buying you know, a lot of alcohol

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Speaker 1: in one day and that kind of thing, rather than

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Speaker 1: you know, rather than some of the measures that we've

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Speaker 1: currently got in place.

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Speaker 2: Totally and if everyone was doing the same thing and

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Speaker 2: they could only buy one bottle or whatever that sort

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Speaker 2: of model is. But imagine if you go, oh no,

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Speaker 2: that's just all the independence. You can only buy one bottle,

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Speaker 2: but you can go up the road to b WS

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Speaker 2: and buy can you know. And that's what we're facing

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Speaker 2: at the moment. You can only buy a certain amount

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Speaker 2: in dollar value, but you can go up the road

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Speaker 2: and buy unrestricted. And that's the real problem here. It's

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Speaker 2: as small business is suffering and we are the backbone

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Speaker 2: of the territory economy and we are here, we are

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Speaker 2: living here, we are facing the day to day challenges

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Speaker 2: that we have to face. Like we had a rock

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Speaker 2: thrown at Kenny the other day, a massive rock. Now

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Speaker 2: fortunately it didn't hit him, it hit our car. But imagine,

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Speaker 2: you know, wait what happened. I've got on your different

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Speaker 2: story now. But there were some people trying to get

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Speaker 2: into the back of our shop, in our loading top

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Speaker 2: which is out of bounce for deliveries only. He just

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Speaker 2: happened to be out there and saw them and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, move on, you're not allowed in here. And

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Speaker 2: they had just been in the shop stealing cans of deodorant,

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Speaker 2: young girls with ankle bracelets, and then just trying to

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Speaker 2: get into the back and then they walk out and

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Speaker 2: then they've gone and grabbed a big rock and threw

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Speaker 2: it at him.

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Speaker 1: Is he all right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fine. You know, he's tough, and you know,

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Speaker 2: not too much affects Kenny, but it affects me, It

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Speaker 2: affects my children, and it affects our stuff. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: how much more of this can we take? And the

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Speaker 2: young girls with ankle bracelets and they've already obviously been

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Speaker 2: in trouble with the law, Why is are they continuing

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Speaker 2: to do things that are illegal like coming in and

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Speaker 2: stealing then they're chrooming and you know.

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Speaker 1: Like well, and then we hear, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: we hear from health professionals that the way in which

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with people after they've been chroming

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Speaker 1: is very different, you know to what you might who's

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Speaker 1: with somebody who's unaffected by a substance. So it is

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Speaker 1: a bloody scary situation. And you know, for those out

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Speaker 1: there listening that don't know Kenny, that is Shelley's husband.

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Speaker 1: They are the owners of the i GA out there, Zicole.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you guys do a lot in the community.

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Speaker 1: You support a lot of local sports teams, a lot

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Speaker 1: of young locals doing good things. That's horrible. That is

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Speaker 1: a horrible situation for your husband to be in.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's just horrifying. And that happened at Too Sturdy

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Speaker 2: in the afternoon, you know. So there's just problems everywhere,

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Speaker 2: So that not only is the problems now I've got

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Speaker 2: problems with deodorant, you know, like we really need to

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Speaker 2: get to the underlying problems to help people that have problems,

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Speaker 2: and it starts with early intervention and things need to

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Speaker 2: be happening with the demand on on these products because

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Speaker 2: we can't be responsible for absolutely every problem that comes

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Speaker 2: across in the territory. Next thing will be capped on

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Speaker 2: how much deodorant we can sell.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, Shelley, you know from

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Speaker 1: that story that you've just told me, then the fact

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Speaker 1: that you've got deodorant being stolen, I mean, it just

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Speaker 1: got It does just go to show you that while

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Speaker 1: we talk about alcohol a lot and the impacts that

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Speaker 1: that has in the territory, there's a lot of other

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Speaker 1: factors at play here. And you know, I can understand

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Speaker 1: what you are saying. You just want a fair and

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Speaker 1: level playing field just to play devil's advocate for a moment, though, Shelley,

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Speaker 1: you know there might be some people listening who are going, well,

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Speaker 1: you're an IgA, not a liquor store. Do you need

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Speaker 1: to sell alcohol?

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Speaker 2: Well? And as we go back to where the celebrations

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Speaker 2: as well, and our license is granted with an auxiliary license,

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Speaker 2: which means that it is not your sole income or

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Speaker 2: that it's not the number one or your main business.

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Speaker 2: And it is not our main business.

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Speaker 3: It's not our main.

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Speaker 2: Business on dollar value, it's not our main business on

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Speaker 2: flaw space, it's not our main business based on how

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Speaker 2: many items we have in that shop. We have about

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Speaker 2: two thousand different items in the bottle shop in twenty

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Speaker 2: thousand in the IDA. So it's just that this figure

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Speaker 2: got plucked out of the air when a Riley review

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Speaker 2: was done. And unfortunately the real consequences of a practical

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Speaker 2: application of this hasn't been thought through. Because good businesses

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Speaker 2: are closing down, local businesses, local jobs are going and

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Speaker 2: that's what's important. We need to keep locals employed, like

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Speaker 2: why should my beautiful staff lose hours? I mean they've

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Speaker 2: got families defeat. It's just there's a news.

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Speaker 3: Some words, an unintended, unintended consequence of this application here,

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Speaker 3: and it needs to be revisited and I need someone

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Speaker 3: needs to be agile here to come in and say, hey,

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Speaker 3: we thought this was going to work, but it's not

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Speaker 3: working how we thought because it's not changing the end

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Speaker 3: results at all.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the thing, Hey, we want to actually see

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Speaker 1: the end result changing. And I think that that is

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Speaker 1: an incredibly good point that you've made there right across

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Speaker 1: the board. No matter what what you know, in what

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Speaker 1: context we're talking about alcohol issues, we want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that any changes that we actually make that they're

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Speaker 1: having the impact that is intended. Because so we've got

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Speaker 1: things like the BDR, We've got things like the minimum

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Speaker 1: floor price. You know, we've got these caps now on

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Speaker 1: corner stores and convenience stores like yourselves. So if they're

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Speaker 1: not having the intended consequence, well, what do we need

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Speaker 1: to do differently or what do we need to actually

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Speaker 1: modify to make it work?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, Katie. And there's been a lot of

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Speaker 2: talk when there's less outlets, there's less alcohol sold. And

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Speaker 2: I can tell you I've also now got the data

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Speaker 2: and the evidence that when bottle shops are closed, like

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Speaker 2: when Paul Declan was killed, all the bws is shut.

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Speaker 2: And I can tell you our sales went through the

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Speaker 2: roof because when they were all shut that people went

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Speaker 2: to stores that were open. So it doesn't matter if

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Speaker 2: there's lesser stores. If you want a bottle of wine

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Speaker 2: to go with your dinner, you're going to drive to

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Speaker 2: the shop that's open.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Shelley, I am going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time as always, Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for speaking with us. And I hope that Kenny's okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm really sorry to hear that that's happened to him.

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Speaker 1: I hope he's all right.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate that. Katie, thank you