1 00:00:07,951 --> 00:00:11,760 Mundanara Bayles: Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the 2 00:00:11,761 --> 00:00:15,480 Mundanara Bayles: land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,571 Mundanara Bayles: traditional owners of the land where you, the listener or 4 00:00:18,571 --> 00:00:21,180 Mundanara Bayles: viewer, are tuning in from. We would like to pay 5 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:24,570 Mundanara Bayles: our respects to our elders, past and present, and acknowledge 6 00:00:24,571 --> 00:00:27,870 Mundanara Bayles: that this always was Aboriginal land, and always will be 7 00:00:28,051 --> 00:00:28,770 Mundanara Bayles: Aboriginal land. 8 00:00:30,511 --> 00:00:33,751 Speaker 2: This episode is proudly brought to you by ANZ. A 9 00:00:33,751 --> 00:00:37,290 Speaker 2: new series of conversations with different mob around the country, 10 00:00:37,321 --> 00:00:41,341 Speaker 2: to yarn about meaningful career opportunities within ANZ, building the 11 00:00:41,341 --> 00:00:46,290 Speaker 2: capacity of Indigenous businesses and organizations, and helping individuals in 12 00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:50,251 Speaker 2: the broader community to achieve financial wellbeing and resilience. 13 00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:59,521 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mundanara Bayles. 14 00:01:04,501 --> 00:01:07,831 Mundanara Bayles: Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Black Magic 15 00:01:07,831 --> 00:01:13,621 Mundanara Bayles: Woman. This is my partnership series with ANZ. My amazing 16 00:01:13,621 --> 00:01:16,381 Mundanara Bayles: guest is joining me here on the lands of the 17 00:01:16,411 --> 00:01:20,670 Mundanara Bayles: Gadigal peoples here in Sydney. This is my mother's country. 18 00:01:20,791 --> 00:01:25,560 Mundanara Bayles: My family go back seven generations to Gadigal country. I 19 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,590 Mundanara Bayles: want to acknowledge not only the Gadigal, but the 28 20 00:01:28,591 --> 00:01:31,950 Mundanara Bayles: groups that make up the Sydney Basin, also referred to 21 00:01:31,950 --> 00:01:35,881 Mundanara Bayles: as the Eora Nation. So my guest today is Catherine 22 00:01:35,881 --> 00:01:39,211 Mundanara Bayles: Gibson, who I met on Kaurna Country, and we are 23 00:01:39,211 --> 00:01:43,500 Mundanara Bayles: now reuniting on my mother's land. We actually met at 24 00:01:43,501 --> 00:01:49,140 Mundanara Bayles: an ANZ IBA- sponsored business kind of boot camp at 25 00:01:49,140 --> 00:01:53,190 Mundanara Bayles: UniSA. So we'll talk about that. So look, for all 26 00:01:53,191 --> 00:01:55,951 Mundanara Bayles: of my guests on the podcast, I always hand over 27 00:01:55,951 --> 00:01:58,201 Mundanara Bayles: the microphone. I think you're the best person to introduce 28 00:01:58,201 --> 00:02:01,501 Mundanara Bayles: yourself. So can you please share with my listeners, and 29 00:02:01,501 --> 00:02:05,341 Mundanara Bayles: also we've got viewers on YouTube. Thank you for joining 30 00:02:05,430 --> 00:02:10,831 Mundanara Bayles: and watching and supporting this podcast. Your name, your mob, 31 00:02:10,831 --> 00:02:12,931 Mundanara Bayles: and maybe just a little bit about where you grew up. 32 00:02:12,931 --> 00:02:17,701 Catherine Gibson: Sure. Great. Thanks, Mundanara. Catherine Gibson. I'm a proud Dharug 33 00:02:17,701 --> 00:02:21,600 Catherine Gibson: woman. I grew up on the Central Coast, so Central 34 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,131 Catherine Gibson: Coast is 90 minutes north from here, at a suburb 35 00:02:26,131 --> 00:02:29,581 Catherine Gibson: called Wamberal. But whenever I say Wamberal, everyone's like, " Oh, 36 00:02:29,941 --> 00:02:31,831 Catherine Gibson: never heard of that." And then I say, oh, it's 37 00:02:31,831 --> 00:02:34,291 Catherine Gibson: close to Terrigal. And a lot of people are familiar 38 00:02:34,291 --> 00:02:38,671 Catherine Gibson: with Terrigal. So I currently live on Shelly Beach, which 39 00:02:38,671 --> 00:02:41,580 Catherine Gibson: is in between Terrigal and The Entrance. So it's right on 40 00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:45,601 Catherine Gibson: the coast and it's a beautiful place. So I haven't ventured too far- 41 00:02:46,141 --> 00:02:46,651 Mundanara Bayles: You're still in the same neighborhood. 42 00:02:48,031 --> 00:02:50,460 Catherine Gibson: Pretty much the same neighborhood, but it's on beautiful Darkinjung 43 00:02:50,461 --> 00:02:53,371 Catherine Gibson: country and our head office for work's at Tuggerah, so it's 44 00:02:53,371 --> 00:02:56,221 Catherine Gibson: really convenient and a great place to raise as a 45 00:02:56,221 --> 00:03:00,930 Catherine Gibson: family. I'm married. I've been married for I think 23 years this 46 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:04,141 Catherine Gibson: year and have two girls, 10 and six, so they keep 47 00:03:04,141 --> 00:03:05,550 Catherine Gibson: me super busy. 48 00:03:06,121 --> 00:03:08,341 Mundanara Bayles: Well, first the main thing that I like people to 49 00:03:08,341 --> 00:03:12,210 Mundanara Bayles: kind of get an insight into, what has it been like in 50 00:03:12,211 --> 00:03:14,670 Mundanara Bayles: terms of growing up as a Dharug woman? 51 00:03:15,390 --> 00:03:18,060 Catherine Gibson: Well, it's been a really interesting journey for us. It's only 52 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:22,770 Catherine Gibson: a relatively short journey of really understanding our connection. So 53 00:03:22,861 --> 00:03:28,111 Catherine Gibson: many years ago, probably 45 years ago, Dad had started our family history 54 00:03:28,111 --> 00:03:31,111 Catherine Gibson: and he's always been interested in family history. So researching 55 00:03:31,141 --> 00:03:34,380 Catherine Gibson: all different lines and where people came from and really 56 00:03:34,381 --> 00:03:37,560 Catherine Gibson: understanding your roots. And at the time he found a lot of 57 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,831 Catherine Gibson: roadblocks with a certain channel. So everyone had a little 58 00:03:40,861 --> 00:03:44,581 Catherine Gibson: manila folder with their paperwork and he was working his 59 00:03:44,581 --> 00:03:46,741 Catherine Gibson: way through. And it wasn't until a couple of years 60 00:03:46,741 --> 00:03:49,381 Catherine Gibson: ago that he thought, " Oh, I'll pick that hobby back 61 00:03:49,381 --> 00:03:52,321 Catherine Gibson: up again." And opened up the filing cabinet and pulled 62 00:03:52,321 --> 00:03:54,720 Catherine Gibson: out the first manila folder, and he was like, "Oh, I 63 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,060 Catherine Gibson: got stumped on this one," because a lot of the 64 00:03:57,061 --> 00:04:00,601 Catherine Gibson: records were missing, missing information, and it was just back 65 00:04:00,601 --> 00:04:03,841 Catherine Gibson: then too hard without the internet. And he'd be traipsing 66 00:04:03,841 --> 00:04:07,021 Catherine Gibson: down to Sydney looking at records, electronic or scans- 67 00:04:07,741 --> 00:04:09,241 Mundanara Bayles: State Library, the Archives- 68 00:04:09,451 --> 00:04:10,320 Catherine Gibson: Exactly, the Archives. 69 00:04:10,321 --> 00:04:11,550 Mundanara Bayles: Births, Deaths and Marriages. 70 00:04:11,581 --> 00:04:12,631 Catherine Gibson: Yep, all of that. 71 00:04:13,111 --> 00:04:14,520 Mundanara Bayles: Fascinating. Tell me more. 72 00:04:14,641 --> 00:04:18,421 Catherine Gibson: So then he pulled out the folder and then he 73 00:04:18,421 --> 00:04:21,211 Catherine Gibson: started doing more research because with the internet and a 74 00:04:21,211 --> 00:04:24,120 Catherine Gibson: lot more information, it then led him to the channel 75 00:04:24,121 --> 00:04:27,000 Catherine Gibson: of speaking to other family members and filling in the 76 00:04:27,001 --> 00:04:32,670 Catherine Gibson: gaps. So we were always under the impression ... so it 77 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:36,151 Catherine Gibson: was my Dad's father's family line is where the Dharug 78 00:04:37,051 --> 00:04:41,791 Catherine Gibson: heritage comes in. And he had never known his grandfather. 79 00:04:41,851 --> 00:04:44,010 Catherine Gibson: He was always told that he died. And my grandfather 80 00:04:44,011 --> 00:04:46,381 Catherine Gibson: never knew his dad. He just said, " Look, he died." 81 00:04:46,381 --> 00:04:50,490 Catherine Gibson: And he pretty much didn't exist. So there was always 82 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:55,230 Catherine Gibson: that missing link. And my grandfather was raised by his 83 00:04:55,231 --> 00:05:00,060 Catherine Gibson: grandmother, because his mother had some abuse issues and substance 84 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:03,600 Catherine Gibson: issues that she wasn't capable of looking after him. So 85 00:05:03,991 --> 00:05:07,770 Catherine Gibson: after a lot of, I guess, searching information, it led 86 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:11,941 Catherine Gibson: to finding our Dharug family and my great- great- grandmother was one 87 00:05:11,941 --> 00:05:16,261 Catherine Gibson: of the last surviving Aboriginal women on the Palsworthy Barracks 88 00:05:16,261 --> 00:05:18,540 Catherine Gibson: and on the Georges River. And we found a lot 89 00:05:18,541 --> 00:05:21,990 Catherine Gibson: of articles that related to her regarding commissioning the Board 90 00:05:21,991 --> 00:05:24,060 Catherine Gibson: to try to get a boat. She was married to 91 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:27,091 Catherine Gibson: an Australian man. It was denied at the time, but 92 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,831 Catherine Gibson: just all this interest has kind of unraveled and learning. 93 00:05:31,891 --> 00:05:34,771 Catherine Gibson: It's interesting because my Dad has always had such a 94 00:05:34,771 --> 00:05:39,391 Catherine Gibson: strong connection to Aboriginal culture, and we always found it quite- 95 00:05:39,391 --> 00:05:42,571 Mundanara Bayles: I'm getting goosebumps all over my body, my whole body. 96 00:05:42,571 --> 00:05:46,410 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, so our home has always had beautiful artwork pieces. 97 00:05:46,410 --> 00:05:48,931 Catherine Gibson: He's always traveled a lot around Australia and come back 98 00:05:48,931 --> 00:05:51,332 Catherine Gibson: with different artifacts or we'd always- 99 00:05:51,332 --> 00:05:52,861 Mundanara Bayles: He's always been drawn- 100 00:05:52,861 --> 00:05:53,491 Catherine Gibson: Yeah. 101 00:05:53,611 --> 00:05:55,110 Mundanara Bayles: To Aboriginal culture. 102 00:05:55,171 --> 00:05:58,110 Catherine Gibson: Yeah. And our work boardroom, we always had multiple pieces 103 00:05:58,111 --> 00:06:00,360 Catherine Gibson: of Aboriginal artwork. So it was just as soon as 104 00:06:00,361 --> 00:06:03,210 Catherine Gibson: he found out, it wasn't like, " Oh, that's odd." He 105 00:06:03,211 --> 00:06:04,232 Catherine Gibson: really did feel that instinct. 106 00:06:04,232 --> 00:06:07,170 Mundanara Bayles: He knew it. He knew it. But he didn't know it. 107 00:06:07,231 --> 00:06:11,761 Catherine Gibson: That's right. So he's really embraced it and learning more 108 00:06:11,761 --> 00:06:15,180 Catherine Gibson: and meeting different relatives, going down to different libraries, and 109 00:06:15,390 --> 00:06:18,961 Catherine Gibson: he's found the grave site of where his family's buried- 110 00:06:18,961 --> 00:06:18,962 Mundanara Bayles: Wow. 111 00:06:18,962 --> 00:06:21,360 Catherine Gibson: ... and all of the history that grows with that. So it's certainly- 112 00:06:22,291 --> 00:06:22,950 Mundanara Bayles: A journey. 113 00:06:22,981 --> 00:06:25,980 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, certainly a journey. So he's kind of bringing us 114 00:06:26,131 --> 00:06:27,540 Catherine Gibson: all along with that as well. 115 00:06:27,541 --> 00:06:28,771 Mundanara Bayles: And you're embracing it as well. 116 00:06:28,801 --> 00:06:31,110 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, I think it's really important. And obviously there's a 117 00:06:31,111 --> 00:06:34,410 Catherine Gibson: lot of different lines on the other side. We're sixth 118 00:06:34,410 --> 00:06:37,170 Catherine Gibson: generation from a convict, and that's really interesting as well. 119 00:06:37,171 --> 00:06:42,121 Catherine Gibson: But it's just like, yeah, it's just all the missing pieces. 120 00:06:42,151 --> 00:06:47,430 Mundanara Bayles: This is not like ... it's common. These stories with white 121 00:06:47,431 --> 00:06:49,710 Mundanara Bayles: Australian families that have been here for about four, five, 122 00:06:49,711 --> 00:06:54,570 Mundanara Bayles: six generations have an Aboriginal woman, female, it's usually the 123 00:06:54,571 --> 00:06:59,521 Mundanara Bayles: matriarch, the female, where on the family tree, it's unknown. 124 00:07:00,301 --> 00:07:00,931 Mundanara Bayles: It's just blank. 125 00:07:00,961 --> 00:07:01,021 Catherine Gibson: Yeah. 126 00:07:01,441 --> 00:07:03,691 Mundanara Bayles: So I always say to people, if you look at 127 00:07:03,691 --> 00:07:06,871 Mundanara Bayles: your family tree and you go back two or three 128 00:07:06,871 --> 00:07:09,751 Mundanara Bayles: generations, mainly the female line- 129 00:07:09,781 --> 00:07:10,530 Catherine Gibson: Yes, yep. 130 00:07:10,621 --> 00:07:13,231 Mundanara Bayles: Because when they first came, the first boat, there was 131 00:07:13,501 --> 00:07:16,831 Mundanara Bayles: no women. They actually brought out a whole fleet to 132 00:07:16,831 --> 00:07:18,241 Mundanara Bayles: populate the colony. 133 00:07:18,331 --> 00:07:18,691 Catherine Gibson: Wow. 134 00:07:18,721 --> 00:07:20,431 Mundanara Bayles: So what do you think they were doing before that? 135 00:07:20,431 --> 00:07:23,911 Mundanara Bayles: Some were obviously taking advantage of Aboriginal women. That did 136 00:07:23,911 --> 00:07:28,531 Mundanara Bayles: happen a lot. But there was actually relationships. There were 137 00:07:28,531 --> 00:07:31,111 Mundanara Bayles: people that fell in love with each other. Like my 138 00:07:31,111 --> 00:07:33,600 Mundanara Bayles: Nan fell in love with an Irishman in the 1940s 139 00:07:34,111 --> 00:07:37,681 Mundanara Bayles: or '50s in Redfern. But she married that Irishman as 140 00:07:37,681 --> 00:07:38,431 Mundanara Bayles: an Indian woman. 141 00:07:38,431 --> 00:07:38,491 Catherine Gibson: Wow. 142 00:07:39,661 --> 00:07:43,891 Mundanara Bayles: She outsmarted authorities. So as an Aboriginal woman, she wouldn't 143 00:07:43,891 --> 00:07:46,080 Mundanara Bayles: have been able to marry. She wouldn't have been able 144 00:07:46,081 --> 00:07:48,060 Mundanara Bayles: to drink at the pub with the girlfriends after work. 145 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:50,461 Mundanara Bayles: She wouldn't have been able to keep her children. She 146 00:07:50,461 --> 00:07:53,221 Mundanara Bayles: wouldn't have been able to work or live freely. So 147 00:07:53,221 --> 00:07:56,191 Mundanara Bayles: my Nan's life, she lived a double life, you could 148 00:07:56,191 --> 00:08:01,201 Mundanara Bayles: say. Once she became free from that legislation and free 149 00:08:01,201 --> 00:08:04,801 Mundanara Bayles: from slavery, she became an Indian woman. And as an 150 00:08:04,801 --> 00:08:06,810 Mundanara Bayles: Indian woman, she lived a very different life until they 151 00:08:06,810 --> 00:08:09,451 Mundanara Bayles: found out she was Aboriginal. Then they took my mum 152 00:08:10,231 --> 00:08:13,891 Mundanara Bayles: and her siblings away. And then that cycle in terms 153 00:08:13,891 --> 00:08:16,560 Mundanara Bayles: of living in out of home care or being institutionalized 154 00:08:16,831 --> 00:08:20,401 Mundanara Bayles: or Stolen Generations, has impacted my family. But we're talking 155 00:08:20,401 --> 00:08:21,750 Mundanara Bayles: about one generation ago. 156 00:08:21,781 --> 00:08:22,710 Catherine Gibson: That's right. It's not- 157 00:08:22,801 --> 00:08:25,560 Mundanara Bayles: A lot of Australians seem to think it was 200 158 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,660 Mundanara Bayles: years ago or a long time ago. We're talking about 159 00:08:28,111 --> 00:08:30,061 Mundanara Bayles: what happened within people's living memories. 160 00:08:30,181 --> 00:08:30,901 Catherine Gibson: In their lifetime. 161 00:08:32,011 --> 00:08:35,431 Mundanara Bayles: So you found out you're Dharug, your Dad's been on this journey, you're connecting with 162 00:08:35,431 --> 00:08:39,120 Mundanara Bayles: different parts of your family, extended family, and the mob. 163 00:08:39,721 --> 00:08:43,591 Mundanara Bayles: Tell me, in terms of your children, how do they 164 00:08:43,591 --> 00:08:45,510 Mundanara Bayles: identify? What has it been like for them? 165 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:48,960 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, no, it's interesting because the girls ... like I said, my Dad's 166 00:08:48,961 --> 00:08:52,291 Catherine Gibson: really embraced it, and he's trying to share that with 167 00:08:52,771 --> 00:08:55,020 Catherine Gibson: both of the girls and his other grandchildren as well. 168 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:55,831 Mundanara Bayles: You can't push them though, right? 169 00:08:55,831 --> 00:08:58,261 Catherine Gibson: That's right. And you don't want to push them, but I 170 00:08:58,261 --> 00:09:01,020 Catherine Gibson: think the interest is just the different ages and things 171 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:04,021 Catherine Gibson: like that as well. So it's just exposing them and 172 00:09:04,021 --> 00:09:07,261 Catherine Gibson: providing those opportunities for them to learn and take it ... A lot 173 00:09:07,261 --> 00:09:09,210 Catherine Gibson: to take in, especially at a young age when you've 174 00:09:09,211 --> 00:09:11,131 Catherine Gibson: got so much else going on and then you're dealing 175 00:09:12,001 --> 00:09:13,860 Catherine Gibson: with all of that as well. 176 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:19,410 Mundanara Bayles: And talking about positive representation and role models, I never 177 00:09:19,411 --> 00:09:22,921 Mundanara Bayles: actually knew anyone when I was growing up that had 178 00:09:22,921 --> 00:09:26,401 Mundanara Bayles: a business. I never knew, as a young Black kid 179 00:09:26,401 --> 00:09:29,491 Mundanara Bayles: growing up in Redfern and Waterloo, I did not know 180 00:09:29,491 --> 00:09:32,761 Mundanara Bayles: that my grandmother was an entrepreneur. She was a businesswoman. 181 00:09:33,151 --> 00:09:36,541 Mundanara Bayles: She created an art gallery with all of her Aboriginal 182 00:09:36,541 --> 00:09:40,351 Mundanara Bayles: art and artifacts that she collected. She decorated her whole 183 00:09:40,351 --> 00:09:45,751 Mundanara Bayles: house and had busloads of Japanese, Chinese, Korean, full on 184 00:09:45,961 --> 00:09:49,801 Mundanara Bayles: busloads of visitors. We had the big coach buses with 185 00:09:49,801 --> 00:09:52,110 Mundanara Bayles: a hundred people. They used to pull up at my 186 00:09:52,111 --> 00:09:55,560 Mundanara Bayles: Gran's house. They said come through, she'd pull us out 187 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,301 Mundanara Bayles: of school because the Murri school was in the next 188 00:09:57,301 --> 00:10:00,781 Mundanara Bayles: street, in West End. We'd perform. My beautiful Uncle Mick 189 00:10:00,781 --> 00:10:04,441 Mundanara Bayles: would play the didgeridoo and show them the breathing, right? 190 00:10:04,921 --> 00:10:08,161 Mundanara Bayles: and that was my Gran's business. I had no idea 191 00:10:08,161 --> 00:10:13,140 Mundanara Bayles: though that that was a business. So being exposed to 192 00:10:13,651 --> 00:10:16,320 Mundanara Bayles: business as a young age didn't happened for me. How 193 00:10:16,321 --> 00:10:18,451 Mundanara Bayles: did you end up falling into business? 194 00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:21,871 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, so it's interesting. So I work for the family 195 00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:24,570 Catherine Gibson: business. So my parents own the business, and I always 196 00:10:24,570 --> 00:10:28,111 Catherine Gibson: said I was never going to work there. So it's been 34 years this 197 00:10:28,111 --> 00:10:31,171 Catherine Gibson: year, the business has been going. And when I finished 198 00:10:31,171 --> 00:10:34,591 Catherine Gibson: school I said, " Look, I'll help out, help out." I 199 00:10:34,591 --> 00:10:38,161 Catherine Gibson: remember it was before email. So my job was typing 200 00:10:38,161 --> 00:10:40,171 Catherine Gibson: the memos, so typing memos and putting it on people's 201 00:10:40,171 --> 00:10:43,891 Catherine Gibson: desks. That was the office updates. And then I thought, " 202 00:10:43,891 --> 00:10:47,370 Catherine Gibson: Oh, this is interesting." And I just decided to stay 203 00:10:47,371 --> 00:10:50,850 Catherine Gibson: a little bit longer. And 25 years later, I'm still 204 00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:51,601 Catherine Gibson: in the business. 205 00:10:52,471 --> 00:10:53,551 Mundanara Bayles: 25 years? 206 00:10:53,551 --> 00:10:56,072 Catherine Gibson: Yes, 25 years. It's actually a very long- 207 00:10:56,072 --> 00:10:56,701 Mundanara Bayles: It's gone really quick. 208 00:10:56,881 --> 00:10:58,531 Catherine Gibson: It has gone quick. 209 00:10:58,531 --> 00:10:59,551 Mundanara Bayles: It's had its moments. 210 00:10:59,611 --> 00:11:03,361 Catherine Gibson: It's had its moments, but it's certainly a business that's 211 00:11:03,451 --> 00:11:06,360 Catherine Gibson: really evolved over the years. So it's never doing the 212 00:11:06,361 --> 00:11:09,270 Catherine Gibson: same thing. So I think that's what's been exciting about 213 00:11:09,270 --> 00:11:11,940 Catherine Gibson: it. But I think the vision's really driven by my 214 00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:16,381 Catherine Gibson: Dad. He's very visionary. He sees things, he sees opportunities, 215 00:11:16,381 --> 00:11:18,960 Catherine Gibson: and he gives things a go. So sometimes I'm a 216 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:21,541 Catherine Gibson: little bit more risk- adverse. He's very like, " Let's just 217 00:11:21,541 --> 00:11:23,160 Catherine Gibson: jump in and we can do this and we'll try 218 00:11:23,161 --> 00:11:25,501 Catherine Gibson: this." I'm like, " Oh." So it's kind of good to 219 00:11:25,501 --> 00:11:25,950 Catherine Gibson: have that- 220 00:11:26,281 --> 00:11:26,282 Mundanara Bayles: Balance. 221 00:11:26,282 --> 00:11:27,211 Catherine Gibson: ... balance. 222 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:27,720 Mundanara Bayles: Yes. 223 00:11:28,411 --> 00:11:30,661 Catherine Gibson: But it's been really exciting, particularly over the last couple 224 00:11:30,661 --> 00:11:36,150 Catherine Gibson: of years and since finding out about the Dharug connection and 225 00:11:36,151 --> 00:11:39,600 Catherine Gibson: the family history, is we've really embraced it on the 226 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,240 Catherine Gibson: Central Coast. And the Central Coast is a great community. 227 00:11:42,241 --> 00:11:45,690 Catherine Gibson: There's a lot of organizations that have been really supportive of 228 00:11:45,690 --> 00:11:48,810 Catherine Gibson: our journey and kind of helping guide us as well. 229 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:53,371 Catherine Gibson: And one of those organizations is Bara Barang Corporation, and 230 00:11:53,371 --> 00:11:55,801 Catherine Gibson: we met them a couple of years ago now at 231 00:11:55,801 --> 00:11:58,051 Catherine Gibson: an event that we held for NAIDOC Week and they 232 00:11:58,051 --> 00:12:01,830 Catherine Gibson: joined, which was great. And since then we've kind of 233 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:04,771 Catherine Gibson: looked at how we can work together, and particularly around 234 00:12:05,161 --> 00:12:07,801 Catherine Gibson: employment for Aboriginal youth on the Central Coast and also 235 00:12:07,801 --> 00:12:11,641 Catherine Gibson: training opportunities. So that's been really important for us over 236 00:12:11,641 --> 00:12:14,791 Catherine Gibson: the last few years on really trying to work closely 237 00:12:14,791 --> 00:12:18,330 Catherine Gibson: with Bara Barang and our corporate clients and government clients on how 238 00:12:18,331 --> 00:12:22,621 Catherine Gibson: we can really provide real social impact to our local community 239 00:12:22,621 --> 00:12:28,651 Catherine Gibson: through employment and training opportunities. So that's been really exciting 240 00:12:28,651 --> 00:12:31,141 Catherine Gibson: over the last couple of years to see that grow further. 241 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,961 Mundanara Bayles: I was going to say now, for the listeners and 242 00:12:33,961 --> 00:12:38,460 Mundanara Bayles: our viewers, what is the business? 25 years, and you 243 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:41,731 Mundanara Bayles: started with doing some memos about the meeting. What do you actually do? 244 00:12:41,731 --> 00:12:45,421 Catherine Gibson: So it's kind of hard to put it in a little 245 00:12:45,421 --> 00:12:47,581 Catherine Gibson: bit of a nutshell, but we started off as a 246 00:12:47,581 --> 00:12:51,690 Catherine Gibson: print management organization. So we are independent, so that means 247 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:54,781 Catherine Gibson: that we don't have printing equipment. Quite often people will 248 00:12:54,781 --> 00:12:56,701 Catherine Gibson: turn up and say, " Oh, where's your printing presses and 249 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,060 Catherine Gibson: where do you print?" But we don't produce anything. So 250 00:13:00,301 --> 00:13:04,801 Catherine Gibson: we purely manage. So we have supply partners locally, some 251 00:13:04,801 --> 00:13:08,610 Catherine Gibson: offshore as well for custom bespoke items. So it could 252 00:13:08,611 --> 00:13:12,541 Catherine Gibson: be for print or promotional merchandise, but we work with 253 00:13:12,541 --> 00:13:16,110 Catherine Gibson: organizations that have a multi footprint. So it could be 254 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,101 Catherine Gibson: nationally or APAC region based, and we source and procure 255 00:13:20,701 --> 00:13:23,371 Catherine Gibson: all of their product, and then we warehouse it and 256 00:13:23,371 --> 00:13:27,390 Catherine Gibson: manage it. So we have a warehouse with 3000 pallet 257 00:13:27,390 --> 00:13:29,761 Catherine Gibson: spaces at our Tuggerah head office. So a lot of 258 00:13:29,761 --> 00:13:34,141 Catherine Gibson: the products we procure, warehouse and distribute through our online 259 00:13:34,141 --> 00:13:39,001 Catherine Gibson: portals. So we build online systems and all of the clients can 260 00:13:39,001 --> 00:13:42,451 Catherine Gibson: log in. We can integrate with SAP or the ERP 261 00:13:42,601 --> 00:13:46,440 Catherine Gibson: systems and manage that spend. So from a procurement point, 262 00:13:46,651 --> 00:13:50,400 Catherine Gibson: they can see their spend all in one basket because 263 00:13:50,401 --> 00:13:53,460 Catherine Gibson: they're specialist suppliers that can produce different products. So not 264 00:13:53,461 --> 00:13:57,810 Catherine Gibson: one printer or one merchandise provider can provide a whole end- to- 265 00:13:57,810 --> 00:13:58,531 Catherine Gibson: end range. 266 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,291 Mundanara Bayles: Of course, of course, you go to the best as well, who's got the best price? 267 00:14:01,291 --> 00:14:04,771 Catherine Gibson: That's right. But being independent, so what we are really focused on 268 00:14:04,861 --> 00:14:07,680 Catherine Gibson: and what we are moving forward with our particularly government 269 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,600 Catherine Gibson: clients we're working closely with, because we really want to build up 270 00:14:09,901 --> 00:14:12,961 Catherine Gibson: the capability with other Indigenous- owned businesses. And because we 271 00:14:12,961 --> 00:14:16,591 Catherine Gibson: don't have any ... I guess we're not wedded to our 272 00:14:16,591 --> 00:14:18,451 Catherine Gibson: own equipment, we're not like, " Oh, we need to produce 273 00:14:18,451 --> 00:14:20,730 Catherine Gibson: this because we've got this piece of equipment." We want 274 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:23,371 Catherine Gibson: to work with suppliers that support, I guess, our vision 275 00:14:23,371 --> 00:14:25,081 Catherine Gibson: of what we are looking to achieve. 276 00:14:25,171 --> 00:14:25,321 Mundanara Bayles: Yeah. 277 00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:28,741 Catherine Gibson: So really working with Indigenous businesses to onboard them as 278 00:14:28,741 --> 00:14:31,381 Catherine Gibson: part of our supply chain. So when we're working with 279 00:14:31,381 --> 00:14:34,711 Catherine Gibson: our government clients, we can then report on spend obviously 280 00:14:34,711 --> 00:14:38,610 Catherine Gibson: through E- Bisglobal, but then also spend a direct impact 281 00:14:38,611 --> 00:14:40,831 Catherine Gibson: through other Indigenous businesses as well. 282 00:14:40,831 --> 00:14:40,832 Mundanara Bayles: Of course. 283 00:14:40,832 --> 00:14:42,780 Catherine Gibson: So that's what we're kind of working on at the 284 00:14:42,781 --> 00:14:45,570 Catherine Gibson: moment, just to build and understand the capability and then 285 00:14:46,051 --> 00:14:49,861 Catherine Gibson: put those suppliers into categories that can support our clients and 286 00:14:50,161 --> 00:14:51,931 Catherine Gibson: we can help support them as well. 287 00:14:51,931 --> 00:14:55,832 Mundanara Bayles: You're right, it is such a unique business model. I've never of it. 288 00:14:55,832 --> 00:14:55,833 Catherine Gibson: Yes. 289 00:14:55,833 --> 00:14:59,160 Mundanara Bayles: Never heard of one, never met a business or yarned with somebody 290 00:14:59,161 --> 00:15:00,061 Mundanara Bayles: with the same business model. 291 00:15:00,091 --> 00:15:03,450 Catherine Gibson: Yeah. So it's interesting in that the certification's really- 292 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:08,251 Mundanara Bayles: Talk to people, when they go, " What do you do?" It's like, " 293 00:15:08,251 --> 00:15:09,061 Mundanara Bayles: How long do you have?" 294 00:15:09,631 --> 00:15:10,232 Catherine Gibson: Yep. Pretty much. 295 00:15:10,232 --> 00:15:12,750 Mundanara Bayles: Now you can say, " Have a listen to this podcast." 296 00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:12,930 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, that's right. 297 00:15:14,431 --> 00:15:16,382 Mundanara Bayles: I explain it pretty well on the podcast. 298 00:15:16,382 --> 00:15:17,192 Catherine Gibson: Yep. 299 00:15:17,581 --> 00:15:21,301 Mundanara Bayles: So talk about the Indigenous businesses now. So if I 300 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:25,981 Mundanara Bayles: had a print company, how do I be part of 301 00:15:25,981 --> 00:15:28,591 Mundanara Bayles: your supply chain? Because you would be one of the 302 00:15:28,591 --> 00:15:33,361 Mundanara Bayles: big players. If you've got government contracts, and I'm a 303 00:15:33,361 --> 00:15:37,950 Mundanara Bayles: small little Aboriginal business. Is there room for more Aboriginal 304 00:15:37,951 --> 00:15:41,701 Mundanara Bayles: businesses or Indigenous businesses to be part of your unique 305 00:15:41,701 --> 00:15:42,331 Mundanara Bayles: business model? 306 00:15:42,421 --> 00:15:45,001 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, definitely. And that's something that we are really trying to explore 307 00:15:45,001 --> 00:15:48,121 Catherine Gibson: and understand. So when we meet and go interstate and 308 00:15:48,121 --> 00:15:51,571 Catherine Gibson: travel, we want to meet and identify businesses that we 309 00:15:51,571 --> 00:15:54,810 Catherine Gibson: can work with. And sometimes it's businesses reaching out to 310 00:15:54,810 --> 00:15:56,850 Catherine Gibson: us to say, " Look, could we be on board at 311 00:15:56,850 --> 00:15:59,251 Catherine Gibson: all? We'd like to work together." But also it could 312 00:15:59,251 --> 00:16:01,891 Catherine Gibson: be corporate clients or government clients saying, " Look, we would 313 00:16:01,891 --> 00:16:04,711 Catherine Gibson: like to include these suppliers in our supply chain, but 314 00:16:04,711 --> 00:16:08,131 Catherine Gibson: at the moment they can't handle everything, but we would 315 00:16:08,131 --> 00:16:08,941 Catherine Gibson: like to include them." 316 00:16:08,941 --> 00:16:10,651 Mundanara Bayles: Yeah. In terms of the capability. 317 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:10,950 Catherine Gibson: That's correct. 318 00:16:11,071 --> 00:16:15,690 Mundanara Bayles: We're limited. Indigenous business sector in terms of, majority are 319 00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:17,041 Mundanara Bayles: small to medium enterprises. 320 00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:17,281 Catherine Gibson: Yes. 321 00:16:17,821 --> 00:16:20,881 Mundanara Bayles: And need to kind of partner or do a joint 322 00:16:20,881 --> 00:16:23,401 Mundanara Bayles: venture for some, but partner to be able to take 323 00:16:23,401 --> 00:16:26,160 Mundanara Bayles: on some of the bigger clients and contracts. 324 00:16:26,161 --> 00:16:29,040 Catherine Gibson: That's correct. So we want to help, I guess, support 325 00:16:29,041 --> 00:16:32,281 Catherine Gibson: those businesses through contracts that we are hopefully successful with 326 00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:34,140 Catherine Gibson: as well. So that's kind of where we really want 327 00:16:34,141 --> 00:16:35,851 Catherine Gibson: to build that up- 328 00:16:35,941 --> 00:16:36,092 Mundanara Bayles: I'm excited. 329 00:16:36,092 --> 00:16:38,041 Catherine Gibson: ... with our business. So yeah, so are we. We're 330 00:16:38,041 --> 00:16:38,881 Catherine Gibson: really excited. 331 00:16:39,361 --> 00:16:42,060 Mundanara Bayles: More people need to know that businesses like your family 332 00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:46,261 Mundanara Bayles: business exist, and the social impact is so important because 333 00:16:46,591 --> 00:16:49,140 Mundanara Bayles: if you don't know, there's research out there, go and 334 00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:51,690 Mundanara Bayles: look at it. For every $ 1 that you spend with 335 00:16:51,690 --> 00:16:54,961 Mundanara Bayles: an Indigenous business, the social impact equals $ 4 41. 336 00:16:55,051 --> 00:16:55,141 Catherine Gibson: Yep. 337 00:16:55,561 --> 00:16:57,721 Mundanara Bayles: Crystal Kinsella's got an amazing book. She's got a YouTube 338 00:16:57,721 --> 00:17:00,841 Mundanara Bayles: channel called Meet the Mob as well, but around supply 339 00:17:00,841 --> 00:17:04,591 Mundanara Bayles: diversity, Indigenous business procurement, the IPP, if you've got a 340 00:17:04,591 --> 00:17:09,480 Mundanara Bayles: Reconciliation Action Plan, a RAP, there's 3000 organizations, and ANZ have 341 00:17:09,481 --> 00:17:10,051 Mundanara Bayles: a RAP. 342 00:17:10,141 --> 00:17:10,381 Catherine Gibson: Yes. 343 00:17:10,411 --> 00:17:13,831 Mundanara Bayles: And in their RAP there are deliverables. So your business 344 00:17:13,831 --> 00:17:16,711 Mundanara Bayles: can support some of these organizations with their deliverables in 345 00:17:16,711 --> 00:17:20,611 Mundanara Bayles: their RAP. You can also support Indigenous people building their 346 00:17:20,611 --> 00:17:24,511 Mundanara Bayles: own capability to then go and tender on their own 347 00:17:24,571 --> 00:17:30,151 Mundanara Bayles: or go together. There's such a knock- on effect when 348 00:17:30,451 --> 00:17:35,281 Mundanara Bayles: Indigenous businesses support each other. And that's what I love 349 00:17:35,281 --> 00:17:41,310 Mundanara Bayles: about our culture. It's such a supportive, collective, inclusive culture 350 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,610 Mundanara Bayles: that I don't feel that we need to compete with 351 00:17:44,611 --> 00:17:45,210 Mundanara Bayles: each other. 352 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:45,690 Catherine Gibson: No. 353 00:17:45,721 --> 00:17:48,750 Mundanara Bayles: We need to work with each other. There's enough money, 354 00:17:48,811 --> 00:17:54,450 Mundanara Bayles: there's enough demand in this country. There's such a big 355 00:17:54,511 --> 00:17:58,381 Mundanara Bayles: push for a lot of organizations, corporations, and government departments 356 00:17:58,381 --> 00:18:03,810 Mundanara Bayles: to work with Indigenous businesses, which we know is self- 357 00:18:03,961 --> 00:18:07,351 Mundanara Bayles: determination in action. And it's a way that we can 358 00:18:07,351 --> 00:18:11,071 Mundanara Bayles: keep on breaking that cycle when it comes to intergenerational 359 00:18:11,071 --> 00:18:16,680 Mundanara Bayles: poverty, and start looking at intergenerational wealth and Indigenous business 360 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,611 Mundanara Bayles: and entrepreneurship excites me. And that's why I was so 361 00:18:20,611 --> 00:18:25,261 Mundanara Bayles: excited to do the One- Day Bootcamp Masterclass. We met, 362 00:18:25,261 --> 00:18:27,481 Mundanara Bayles: there was four Indigenous businesses sitting around a table for 363 00:18:27,481 --> 00:18:27,751 Mundanara Bayles: a whole day- 364 00:18:27,751 --> 00:18:28,232 Catherine Gibson: We did. 365 00:18:28,621 --> 00:18:30,451 Mundanara Bayles: And we all had our challenges. I was having a 366 00:18:30,451 --> 00:18:33,600 Mundanara Bayles: few challenges on the day, and I was getting real- 367 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,970 Mundanara Bayles: time support right there from the experts to sort out 368 00:18:38,971 --> 00:18:40,591 Mundanara Bayles: some of my business challenges. 369 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:42,330 Catherine Gibson: Yep. 370 00:18:42,331 --> 00:18:45,541 Mundanara Bayles: How did you get involved with that Business Bootcamp? 371 00:18:45,631 --> 00:18:50,100 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, so our bank manager through ANZ has been very 372 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:53,881 Catherine Gibson: supportive. We've been a customer with ANZ for many, many 373 00:18:53,881 --> 00:18:56,401 Catherine Gibson: years, I think from pretty much since we started the 374 00:18:56,401 --> 00:19:00,151 Catherine Gibson: business. And I'm really lucky, actually, our manager who looks 375 00:19:00,151 --> 00:19:03,421 Catherine Gibson: after our relationship lives in the same suburb as I 376 00:19:03,421 --> 00:19:05,551 Catherine Gibson: do, and our kids go to the same schools, so 377 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:08,460 Catherine Gibson: we see each other at work when she's popping in. 378 00:19:08,461 --> 00:19:10,201 Catherine Gibson: But then also we pick the kids up from after- 379 00:19:10,201 --> 00:19:12,601 Catherine Gibson: school care and we're like, " Oh, hi." So it's just that real 380 00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:16,770 Catherine Gibson: community and, I guess, connection piece. So they put us 381 00:19:16,771 --> 00:19:19,141 Catherine Gibson: forward and said, " Look, would we like to be included?" 382 00:19:19,141 --> 00:19:21,661 Catherine Gibson: And I thought, what a great opportunity. And it was such 383 00:19:21,661 --> 00:19:23,581 Catherine Gibson: a great day even it was just one day, but 384 00:19:23,581 --> 00:19:26,281 Catherine Gibson: just to step away from the business and have that 385 00:19:26,281 --> 00:19:30,211 Catherine Gibson: concentrated time to really take everything on board. And I 386 00:19:30,211 --> 00:19:32,641 Catherine Gibson: was thinking, driving actually, what I actually took away from 387 00:19:32,641 --> 00:19:34,921 Catherine Gibson: it. And just even the simplest little things that I've 388 00:19:34,921 --> 00:19:37,441 Catherine Gibson: implemented. It's only been a couple, and I've still got 389 00:19:37,441 --> 00:19:40,621 Catherine Gibson: my notes from the day, but just those little things 390 00:19:40,621 --> 00:19:41,940 Catherine Gibson: that I have been able to put in place have 391 00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:45,270 Catherine Gibson: really helped. Just juggle day, day- to- day challenges, but also 392 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:47,731 Catherine Gibson: just time and time management as well. 393 00:19:48,511 --> 00:19:52,350 Mundanara Bayles: I think the same for me, just stepping outside of 394 00:19:52,350 --> 00:19:56,641 Mundanara Bayles: the business and trying to think about the business without 395 00:19:56,641 --> 00:20:01,740 Mundanara Bayles: being in it. And it's so hard to do. And I am 396 00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:04,171 Mundanara Bayles: similar to you. I'm in business with my grandmother's sister. 397 00:20:05,161 --> 00:20:09,091 Mundanara Bayles: Your parents own the business. Is there any plans yet 398 00:20:09,301 --> 00:20:13,591 Mundanara Bayles: for you to be a shareholder? Can you tell us anything? 399 00:20:13,591 --> 00:20:13,651 Catherine Gibson: Yeah- 400 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:14,971 Mundanara Bayles: 25 years of service. 401 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,740 Catherine Gibson: It is. Yeah, I know, we're clocking up this time. 402 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:16,862 Mundanara Bayles: Just saying, Dad. 403 00:20:16,862 --> 00:20:21,810 Catherine Gibson: So I think one thing is my family's very open, so there's 404 00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:25,290 Catherine Gibson: a lot of conversations happening. What's the plan? And Dad's 405 00:20:25,291 --> 00:20:28,620 Catherine Gibson: a planner. He likes to know what's happening. So there's 406 00:20:28,621 --> 00:20:32,551 Catherine Gibson: certainly conversations happening on that front. My brother's actually come 407 00:20:32,551 --> 00:20:34,260 Catherine Gibson: on board in the business in the last couple of 408 00:20:34,261 --> 00:20:36,270 Catherine Gibson: years as well. So it's probably coming into the third 409 00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:39,000 Catherine Gibson: year. He used to work at Tcorp, which is part 410 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,901 Catherine Gibson: of the treasury and global property investments, and he had 411 00:20:42,901 --> 00:20:44,190 Catherine Gibson: a bit of a change. So it's good. We are 412 00:20:44,190 --> 00:20:47,310 Catherine Gibson: very different, but we do complement each other really well. So 413 00:20:47,731 --> 00:20:51,181 Catherine Gibson: I guess watch this space. But yeah, it's an exciting 414 00:20:51,181 --> 00:20:54,331 Catherine Gibson: time, but Dad's certainly very hands- on in the business. 415 00:20:55,201 --> 00:20:55,561 Mundanara Bayles: Still going strong. 416 00:20:55,561 --> 00:21:01,801 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, still going strong, still get emails and calls. 417 00:21:01,801 --> 00:21:02,522 Mundanara Bayles: There's no retiring anytime soon. 418 00:21:02,522 --> 00:21:02,791 Catherine Gibson: ... like, yeah, yeah- 419 00:21:03,331 --> 00:21:07,770 Mundanara Bayles: So with ANZ, I bank with ANZ. I have found just 420 00:21:07,801 --> 00:21:12,121 Mundanara Bayles: the fact that now there's two Indigenous business bankers. One 421 00:21:12,121 --> 00:21:14,791 Mundanara Bayles: of them looks after me. I met both of them, 422 00:21:14,791 --> 00:21:18,451 Mundanara Bayles: and I was so excited to see a bank, one 423 00:21:18,451 --> 00:21:21,751 Mundanara Bayles: of the big four, take that next step and go, " 424 00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:26,881 Mundanara Bayles: We need Indigenous people in these jobs." And there's so 425 00:21:26,881 --> 00:21:30,780 Mundanara Bayles: many other things that ANZ do that I keep on thinking 426 00:21:30,781 --> 00:21:34,530 Mundanara Bayles: to myself, you know what? If more people knew, especially 427 00:21:34,831 --> 00:21:36,571 Mundanara Bayles: Blackfellas, that they could pick up the phone and talk 428 00:21:36,571 --> 00:21:39,420 Mundanara Bayles: to another Blackfella that was a banker one, there's this 429 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:43,770 Mundanara Bayles: common ... there's a connection straight away. We feel comfortable. We 430 00:21:43,771 --> 00:21:46,830 Mundanara Bayles: could talk about anything. I feel my guard kind of 431 00:21:46,831 --> 00:21:50,190 Mundanara Bayles: drops immediately when I'm talking to other Blackfellas, but there's this 432 00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:53,250 Mundanara Bayles: sense of pride that I get knowing that Blackfellas are 433 00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:59,551 Mundanara Bayles: actually employed by these big institutions. Over the last couple 434 00:21:59,551 --> 00:22:03,151 Mundanara Bayles: of years with ANZ doing all these different things, is there 435 00:22:03,151 --> 00:22:06,781 Mundanara Bayles: anything else that they're doing that you've found value out 436 00:22:06,781 --> 00:22:10,350 Mundanara Bayles: of? Because there's programs, there's products, there's services that I 437 00:22:10,350 --> 00:22:13,981 Mundanara Bayles: don't even know existed until I've been doing this partnership. 438 00:22:13,981 --> 00:22:15,240 Mundanara Bayles: I'm finding out more and more. 439 00:22:15,541 --> 00:22:18,721 Catherine Gibson: No, I think the relationship that we've had has been very 440 00:22:18,721 --> 00:22:21,151 Catherine Gibson: open. And I think one thing that we love about 441 00:22:21,151 --> 00:22:24,631 Catherine Gibson: working with ANZ is that they're approachable. You can call 442 00:22:24,631 --> 00:22:27,091 Catherine Gibson: them at any time, they'll come in. It's just having 443 00:22:27,091 --> 00:22:30,930 Catherine Gibson: that relationship and that communication. But certainly they're always looking 444 00:22:30,930 --> 00:22:32,820 Catherine Gibson: at ways that they can work with us or provide 445 00:22:32,821 --> 00:22:36,841 Catherine Gibson: us, I guess, the opportunities. So for example, the training opportunity 446 00:22:36,841 --> 00:22:40,081 Catherine Gibson: in South Australia, the opportunity to catch up again today. 447 00:22:40,081 --> 00:22:40,441 Mundanara Bayles: I know. 448 00:22:40,861 --> 00:22:43,590 Catherine Gibson: But also the connection. So I'll meet with Alex, our 449 00:22:43,591 --> 00:22:46,801 Catherine Gibson: contact, our manager, and she's like, " Oh, we're speaking to 450 00:22:46,801 --> 00:22:48,660 Catherine Gibson: head office about this today." It seems like the ANZ is so 451 00:22:49,111 --> 00:22:53,371 Catherine Gibson: big and untouchable, but it's really not. Like everyone's really 452 00:22:53,371 --> 00:22:56,310 Catherine Gibson: working together at the corporate head office level to the 453 00:22:56,311 --> 00:22:58,801 Catherine Gibson: branch level. So that's what we really love. 454 00:22:58,861 --> 00:23:01,171 Mundanara Bayles: And I think for a lot of us Blackfellas, I'm 455 00:23:01,171 --> 00:23:04,440 Mundanara Bayles: speaking here for myself as well, that it can be 456 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,361 Mundanara Bayles: a really daunting feeling or experience of trying to navigate 457 00:23:09,781 --> 00:23:14,521 Mundanara Bayles: being in business, trying to navigate the whole banking and 458 00:23:14,521 --> 00:23:17,821 Mundanara Bayles: technology and apps, and then actually talking to a real 459 00:23:17,821 --> 00:23:20,340 Mundanara Bayles: person. You don't always get a real person when you're 460 00:23:20,341 --> 00:23:25,230 Mundanara Bayles: dealing with big corporations. So I would agree with you 461 00:23:25,230 --> 00:23:27,450 Mundanara Bayles: there. The fact that I can ring up. I've had 462 00:23:27,451 --> 00:23:30,270 Mundanara Bayles: a few challenges and I knew that I could pick up 463 00:23:30,271 --> 00:23:31,141 Mundanara Bayles: the phone and have a yarn. 464 00:23:31,141 --> 00:23:31,740 Catherine Gibson: Have a conversation. 465 00:23:31,801 --> 00:23:33,961 Mundanara Bayles: I was on a Teams meeting straight away, and then 466 00:23:33,961 --> 00:23:36,480 Mundanara Bayles: I felt this sense of relief. And the fact that 467 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,820 Mundanara Bayles: they've spent so much time investing in educating their entire 468 00:23:41,821 --> 00:23:46,321 Mundanara Bayles: workforce. So for us as Black business owners, we know 469 00:23:46,321 --> 00:23:50,311 Mundanara Bayles: that we can actually close the unemployment gap in this 470 00:23:50,311 --> 00:23:54,270 Mundanara Bayles: country with Indigenous businesses alone, but people need to know 471 00:23:54,270 --> 00:23:57,901 Mundanara Bayles: that we exist. And that's why I'm so grateful that, 472 00:23:57,901 --> 00:24:01,891 Mundanara Bayles: one, I've got a platform being in business. Number two, 473 00:24:01,891 --> 00:24:05,520 Mundanara Bayles: I started this podcast, Black Magic Woman, and now people 474 00:24:05,521 --> 00:24:09,270 Mundanara Bayles: like ANZ are seeing the value of partnering with me 475 00:24:09,271 --> 00:24:12,061 Mundanara Bayles: to get these stories out there to the wider community. 476 00:24:12,421 --> 00:24:15,090 Mundanara Bayles: So I'm so thankful that you was able to come 477 00:24:15,091 --> 00:24:18,570 Mundanara Bayles: down, make the trip, spend a little bit of time, 478 00:24:18,631 --> 00:24:23,790 Mundanara Bayles: share some insights about your business. Especially my listeners and 479 00:24:23,791 --> 00:24:26,461 Mundanara Bayles: people that I'm connected to now know that they could 480 00:24:26,461 --> 00:24:28,321 Mundanara Bayles: reach out to you. So the best way to find 481 00:24:28,321 --> 00:24:29,070 Mundanara Bayles: you is? 482 00:24:29,131 --> 00:24:32,010 Catherine Gibson: Yes. So you can email me directly or reach out 483 00:24:32,250 --> 00:24:35,280 Catherine Gibson: via phone. I can leave my contact details. And yeah, 484 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:38,100 Catherine Gibson: more than happy to reach out and have those connections. 485 00:24:38,401 --> 00:24:39,360 Mundanara Bayles: Are you on social media? 486 00:24:39,451 --> 00:24:40,020 Catherine Gibson: Yes. 487 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:40,350 Mundanara Bayles: Good. 488 00:24:40,350 --> 00:24:40,800 Catherine Gibson: Yes. 489 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:41,101 Mundanara Bayles: Are you on LinkedIn? 490 00:24:41,101 --> 00:24:43,530 Catherine Gibson: Yes. LinkedIn's probably the best channel. 491 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:49,891 Mundanara Bayles: Of course, Blackfellas are on LinkedIn. Corporates, corporate Blacks, public servants. 492 00:24:49,891 --> 00:24:51,661 Catherine Gibson: It's amazing. I think it's wonderful to be able to 493 00:24:51,661 --> 00:24:53,640 Catherine Gibson: connect on LinkedIn and keep up to date on what 494 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,991 Catherine Gibson: everybody's doing and all the activity that's happening. Yeah. 495 00:24:58,231 --> 00:25:05,010 Mundanara Bayles: All right. But I'm going to be stalking you. I'm going to get back on LinkedIn, especially when this episode comes out, so that 496 00:25:05,011 --> 00:25:08,250 Mundanara Bayles: more, not just Black businesses, but I am a big 497 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:11,280 Mundanara Bayles: believer that you can't ... and I say this to people all 498 00:25:11,281 --> 00:25:13,920 Mundanara Bayles: the time. Don't talk the talk if you're not going 499 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,770 Mundanara Bayles: to walk the walk. So here I am, talking about 500 00:25:16,771 --> 00:25:19,411 Mundanara Bayles: being an Aboriginal woman in business and how much I 501 00:25:19,411 --> 00:25:22,801 Mundanara Bayles: support the sector, we have to keep on supporting each 502 00:25:22,801 --> 00:25:26,490 Mundanara Bayles: other, not just, " Hey, here's a podcast." So sharing each 503 00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:29,280 Mundanara Bayles: other's contacts, maybe writing a bit of a story on 504 00:25:29,281 --> 00:25:33,270 Mundanara Bayles: our LinkedIn and even doing introductions if we can. So if 505 00:25:33,270 --> 00:25:34,561 Mundanara Bayles: there's anything I can do- 506 00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:35,161 Catherine Gibson: Thank you. 507 00:25:35,161 --> 00:25:37,441 Mundanara Bayles: Don't ever hesitate to reach out to me. I would 508 00:25:37,441 --> 00:25:41,041 Mundanara Bayles: definitely love to connect you with some of the Black 509 00:25:41,041 --> 00:25:43,740 Mundanara Bayles: businesses that I know that are in this space that 510 00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:46,141 Mundanara Bayles: might benefit, might not, but it's still a connection. 511 00:25:46,141 --> 00:25:46,142 Catherine Gibson: That's right. 512 00:25:46,142 --> 00:25:49,680 Mundanara Bayles: It's still a relationship. If there's anything that you want 513 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,291 Mundanara Bayles: to leave our listeners with, and viewers, got to remember 514 00:25:52,291 --> 00:25:54,510 Mundanara Bayles: that people are watching as well, that might be a 515 00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:58,080 Mundanara Bayles: tip for business or whatever it is. What would you 516 00:25:58,081 --> 00:26:00,301 Mundanara Bayles: like to say if you could leave ... I don't know, some 517 00:26:00,301 --> 00:26:01,110 Mundanara Bayles: words of wisdom? 518 00:26:01,111 --> 00:26:03,570 Catherine Gibson: Yeah, well, I think you were just touching on it, 519 00:26:03,571 --> 00:26:07,081 Catherine Gibson: but it's really about that connection, but also not competing, 520 00:26:07,081 --> 00:26:10,561 Catherine Gibson: but working together. I think that's really important. We don't 521 00:26:10,561 --> 00:26:13,740 Catherine Gibson: want to be competing with other Black businesses. We want 522 00:26:13,740 --> 00:26:15,931 Catherine Gibson: to be working together. So I think for us, that's 523 00:26:16,111 --> 00:26:17,760 Catherine Gibson: what we're really driven by. 524 00:26:18,781 --> 00:26:22,440 Mundanara Bayles: And employment. So if there's Mob on the Central Coast 525 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,511 Mundanara Bayles: that are looking for work, sing out. 526 00:26:24,661 --> 00:26:24,780 Catherine Gibson: Yep. 527 00:26:25,081 --> 00:26:26,850 Mundanara Bayles: Let them know that you exist. Get your Mum or 528 00:26:26,850 --> 00:26:29,280 Mundanara Bayles: your Nan or your Aunty or Uncle to reach out. If you're too 529 00:26:29,281 --> 00:26:30,631 Mundanara Bayles: ashamed to pick up the phone- 530 00:26:30,841 --> 00:26:31,500 Catherine Gibson: A hundred percent. 531 00:26:31,531 --> 00:26:33,571 Mundanara Bayles: But after listening to this podcast, I'm pretty sure that 532 00:26:33,571 --> 00:26:36,120 Mundanara Bayles: people will know that you're there on the Central Coast. 533 00:26:36,121 --> 00:26:38,340 Mundanara Bayles: They could pick up the phone and maybe get their 534 00:26:38,341 --> 00:26:39,421 Mundanara Bayles: son or daughter a job. 535 00:26:39,451 --> 00:26:39,631 Catherine Gibson: Yep. 536 00:26:40,111 --> 00:26:43,740 Mundanara Bayles: How deadly, to wrap up the episode with opportunities? And 537 00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:47,101 Mundanara Bayles: I think it's so important that we as Blackfellas do 538 00:26:47,101 --> 00:26:50,161 Mundanara Bayles: as much as we can to support our community and 539 00:26:50,281 --> 00:26:53,521 Mundanara Bayles: give other people opportunities. We're in the position that we're 540 00:26:53,521 --> 00:26:55,921 Mundanara Bayles: in now, and we can afford those opportunities to the 541 00:26:55,921 --> 00:26:59,670 Mundanara Bayles: next generation. So on that note, Catherine, thank you so 542 00:26:59,671 --> 00:27:03,750 Mundanara Bayles: much for coming and being a guest on this podcast 543 00:27:04,051 --> 00:27:07,861 Mundanara Bayles: and also thanks to ANZ for also making this happen. 544 00:27:07,891 --> 00:27:09,961 Catherine Gibson: Yes, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 545 00:27:10,471 --> 00:27:13,831 Mundanara Bayles: All good. Look, you mob, I hope you've been enjoying 546 00:27:14,041 --> 00:27:18,270 Mundanara Bayles: the ANZ Partnership Series. There's more episodes to come, but 547 00:27:18,270 --> 00:27:20,191 Mundanara Bayles: until next time, bye for now. 548 00:27:21,151 --> 00:27:23,731 Speaker 2: If you'd like to know more about how ANZ can 549 00:27:23,731 --> 00:27:27,421 Speaker 2: help improve your financial wellbeing or help you start, run, 550 00:27:27,481 --> 00:27:33,601 Speaker 2: or grow your business, visit ANZ. com or call 13 13 14. 551 00:27:35,461 --> 00:27:37,920 Mundanara Bayles: A big shout- out to all you deadly mob and 552 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,671 Mundanara Bayles: allies who continue to listen, watch and support our podcast. 553 00:27:41,791 --> 00:27:45,151 Mundanara Bayles: Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review 554 00:27:45,151 --> 00:27:48,240 Mundanara Bayles: the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to 555 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,211 Mundanara Bayles: our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. 556 00:27:51,301 --> 00:27:54,151 Mundanara Bayles: We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman 557 00:27:54,151 --> 00:27:56,761 Mundanara Bayles: Podcast is produced by Clint Curtis.