1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 2: wants answers Now.

4
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the Happy

5
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,040
Speaker 3: Families Podcast. I look forward to Wednesdays every week because

6
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 3: I get to talk to interesting people about their lives

7
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,760
Speaker 3: and parenting and what we can learn about making life

8
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,959
Speaker 3: better today. Having a conversation with Sharon Sotolier. Sharon is

9
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 3: a registered midwife and registered nurse and has recently written

10
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 3: a book called Scars of Gold. The book comes out

11
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,080
Speaker 3: in the next couple of months, and I'm kind of

12
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,919
Speaker 3: getting a sneak peek into Sharon's life and her story

13
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 3: about birth trauma. Sharon's been in touch and has shared

14
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 3: her personal story in this book, and it made me

15
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,000
Speaker 3: think this is a conversation that we just don't have enough. Sharon,

16
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 3: Welcome to a Happy Families podcast. It's great to have

17
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 3: you here.

18
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Justine.

19
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: Sharon, you've shared your story in this book, Scars of Gold,

20
00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 3: and I've been privileged to be able to read a

21
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,680
Speaker 3: little bit of it. It would you just give us

22
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 3: a brief version of what you went through from a

23
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 3: trauma perspective, as you went through your first labor as

24
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,840
Speaker 3: a registered midwife, somebody who knows what's supposed to be

25
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,840
Speaker 3: happening and knows how it's all supposed to go.

26
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

27
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 2: Look, I think that was an interesting dimension for me,

28
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 2: especially afterwards when I reflected on my experience.

29
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 1: Going in through the labor. I knew what was happening

30
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: to me.

31
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,959
Speaker 2: I was really fortunate in that my midwife who looked

32
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,760
Speaker 2: after me during labor was also a friend, and she knew.

33
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 1: What to do, how to advocate for me.

34
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 2: But what happened, I had an emergency sincearian, and you

35
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 2: know what, that was all fine because I knew at

36
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 2: that point there was no other option. So I was

37
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 2: able to accept that this is one.

38
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 3: Of those things where people have this desire, this dream

39
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 3: that they're going to go in with their birth plan

40
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 3: and everything's going to go exactly the way it's supposed

41
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 3: to go, and they're going to breathe through it. They're

42
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 3: going to have all the support they need, and the

43
00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 3: baby's going to be born exactly the quote unquote right way.

44
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 3: And even as a midwife, you don't get to choose,

45
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 3: do you. Sometimes things happen and all of a sudden

46
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 3: you're in there with with the epidural block and you're

47
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 3: having the emergency Caesar. This, this was not part of

48
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:14,000
Speaker 3: your plan.

49
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 2: Great, The only plan I actually had was to push

50
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,239
Speaker 2: my baby out and go home in four hours. That

51
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 2: was legitimately the only thing I desperately wanted because for

52
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 2: me being in a personat Award, it is work. For me,

53
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 2: that's where I worked, And you.

54
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 3: Don't want to be hanging out there after you've had

55
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 3: the baby, Right, let's get out of here.

56
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 1: No, I don't want to hear buzzers.

57
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, feel like I'm at

58
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 2: work when I'm transitioning into motherhood, especially for the first time. Unfortunately,

59
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,560
Speaker 2: I ended up being hospital for fifteen days after I

60
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 2: had my son. You know, I was able to accept everything,

61
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:50,960
Speaker 2: even the cesarean.

62
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 1: That for me was fine.

63
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,520
Speaker 3: So what happened after the C section?

64
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 2: So what happened was I had this very rare complication

65
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 2: which time no one knew what it was. I had

66
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: this pain in my leg that just started getting worse

67
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 2: and my leg, my right leg was swelling. Often after cesarean,

68
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,919
Speaker 2: it's normal to have a bit of swelling in both legs,

69
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 2: what we call it dema. My right leg was markedly

70
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,640
Speaker 2: more swollen, and throughout the afternoon it was just getting

71
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 2: worse and worse.

72
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,359
Speaker 1: I was complaining of the pain.

73
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 2: It was visible that I was deteriorating, but I wasn't

74
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 2: taken seriously. I felt I had that expectation that because

75
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,120
Speaker 2: especially because I'm a midwife, to get up, get on

76
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 2: with it. You know, what are you complaining about? You

77
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: know what to do. But by the time the doctor

78
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 2: came to see me, you know, I was dismissed again.

79
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: She just said, oh, you must have bumped it in labor.

80
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 2: You must have bumped it on the bedrail going from

81
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 2: the labor room to the operating theaters.

82
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 1: And I knew I hadn't.

83
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 2: I think being dismissed when I was saying I hadn't

84
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 2: made me second guess myself.

85
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 3: It's almost like the medical establishment embarked on a little

86
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 3: gas lighting procedure against you.

87
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, you.

88
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 3: Know what your experience is. You're a midwife, and and

89
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 3: it makes me think as I hear you say that

90
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 3: you've got all this medical experience you used to you're

91
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 3: a clinical midwife, you're used to being in these situations,

92
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,479
Speaker 3: and you're being dismissed what must it be like for

93
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 3: the for the average non medically trained mum who is

94
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,839
Speaker 3: going through labor for the first or even for the

95
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 3: sixth time something goes wrong, complains about it, and there's

96
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,880
Speaker 3: that ongoing dismissal. I mean, it's a terrible indictment on

97
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 3: the medical profession generally, isn't it when you have a

98
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 3: serious situation like this.

99
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely? And you know, when I was in that in that.

100
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,600
Speaker 2: Bed without my work uniform on, without my work badge,

101
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,239
Speaker 2: I just suddenly felt a stripped of all my power

102
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,040
Speaker 2: and identity.

103
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 1: Who was I?

104
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 2: I thought I was this knowledgeable midwife and you know, professional,

105
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 2: and here I was, and I'm telling my health care providers,

106
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 2: my maternity care providers, I'm in pain.

107
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 1: This is not normal.

108
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,160
Speaker 2: Later on, having the midwife who looked after me and

109
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 2: labor came to visit me, and I even asked her,

110
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 2: because I had doubted myself so much by then, and

111
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,039
Speaker 2: did I bout my leg? And she said, no, absolutely not.

112
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 2: Nothing happened to your leg. And even after that, I

113
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 2: was still dismissed. My pain just got worse and worse.

114
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 2: And by the middle of the night, when it was

115
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 2: so bad and.

116
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 1: My mom was with me that night.

117
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 2: She helped me take off the stoppings that we put

118
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: on our legs after having a cesarean, the compression star yeah,

119
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 2: and instantly my leg ballooned. Oh my gosh, it just ballooned,

120
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,159
Speaker 2: like right in front of my eyes.

121
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 1: It was just agony, like nothing worked.

122
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 2: They said, move the leg, put it on a pillow,

123
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 2: heat pack, ice pack.

124
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 1: Nothing worked.

125
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 2: I mean, at least in labor you get a break,

126
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 2: you get a minute between the contraptions at least, but

127
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 2: this was just I have no words.

128
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 1: It was exquisite pain, agony.

129
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 2: And it was so swollen you could put a fist

130
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,480
Speaker 2: into my ankle and the imprint would still be there.

131
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 3: Some bump you must have had that. That doctor said

132
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 3: it must be some crazy pumps exactly.

133
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 2: And you know, I had a neurologist come in to

134
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 2: see me and he said, oh, you must have compartment syndrome.

135
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 1: Get an MRI.

136
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,039
Speaker 2: But then the other doctors said, we've never seen it

137
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 2: after having a baby. It can't possibly be a compartment syndrome,

138
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 2: so it can't be.

139
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,559
Speaker 1: So they just dismissed that option.

140
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 2: And I went and went on and on and on,

141
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 2: unable to walk, unable to wait, be needing to use

142
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 2: bedpants to go to the toilet.

143
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I was a twenty.

144
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,320
Speaker 2: Six year old young mom in bed with a brand

145
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 2: new baby. Like my whole sense of self was shaken,

146
00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:02,359
Speaker 2: oh while the hormone's home of new motherhood just raging

147
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 2: through me. I was crying all the time in those

148
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 2: fifteen days, just all the time. The only thing that

149
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 2: kept me going was my beautiful son that I had there.

150
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: But eventually, on.

151
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,400
Speaker 2: Day ten, I had another MRI which confirmed I had,

152
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: in fact had acute compartment syndrome. And by then it

153
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 2: was too late to do the fasciodimy, which is the

154
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,200
Speaker 2: cut into the fascia of the muscle to relieve the pressure,

155
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 2: because by then all the dummage had already been done,

156
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 2: and so they had to just treat me conservatively by then.

157
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: And I just always think had they listened to me

158
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 2: at the start when I said, no, this is not normal,

159
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:40,640
Speaker 2: I'm in pain.

160
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: You need to do something. The morphine's not working.

161
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think, well, maybe I could have got the

162
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,239
Speaker 2: treatment I needed then and there, and maybe I wouldn't

163
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 2: be dealing with the consequences that I'm still dealing with now.

164
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 2: I have a dead nerve from my knee down to

165
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 2: my big toe. My balance has been significantly affected over

166
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,239
Speaker 2: these ten years. I still need to see a physio

167
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 2: twice a week still. You know, if someone bumps into

168
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 2: me now and I'm not expecting it.

169
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 1: I will fall. I still have falls.

170
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 2: There's been significant physical consequences for me.

171
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 3: I'm speaking with Sharon Stollier. Sharon is the author of

172
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 3: the forthcoming book Scars of Gold. Sharon, you're an intelligent human.

173
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 3: You've got a registered midwife qualification, you're an RN, you

174
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,319
Speaker 3: have a master's Public Health and Master of International Public Health,

175
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 3: and you're currently enrolled in a PhD. After the break,

176
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,839
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about birth trauma, what it actually is,

177
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 3: the various ways that it can show up, because there

178
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 3: are so many ways that it can, and the project

179
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 3: that you've embarked on to help mothers who have been

180
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 3: through their own forms of birth trauma to get the

181
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:58,679
Speaker 3: help that they need. If you could read your daughter's mind,

182
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 3: what would you hear? Teen girls who are anxious about

183
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 3: fitting in and struggling to find happiness and they need you,

184
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,079
Speaker 3: mum and dad to be there as they tackle these

185
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 3: challenges and much more Misconnection is the cutting edge, science

186
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 3: backed book you need to get deep into your daughter's

187
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 3: mind and connect about the things that matter to her.

188
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 3: Available at The Happy Family's Shop online. It's the Happy

189
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 3: Famili's podcast, the podcast for the time poor parent who

190
00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 3: just wants answers. Now I'm speaking with Sharon Stollier, who's

191
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 3: the author of the forthcoming book Scars of Gold. She's

192
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 3: just shared her traumatic birth story. Sharon, birth is traumatic,

193
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 3: like childbirth is a trauma in and of itself, what

194
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 3: it does to the body, the way that psychology and

195
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 3: physiology are affected by this. It's a really big deal

196
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,520
Speaker 3: to have a baby. Having sat in a birthing suite

197
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 3: and supported my wife through six labors, five of which

198
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 3: were what you would call a natural birth with minimal

199
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 3: pain relief, and then one that ended up being an

200
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:06,000
Speaker 3: emergency sea section, witnessed the immensity of the unspeakable miracle

201
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 3: of what this can be. But obviously it is not

202
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 3: the miraculous, joyful, beautiful, perfect moment that I've experienced. For

203
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 3: every woman, for every family that goes through this, Can

204
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,840
Speaker 3: you tell us exactly what birth trauma is?

205
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 2: Yes?

206
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

207
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,959
Speaker 2: Look, first of all, I am so happy to hear

208
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,840
Speaker 2: that your family has experienced positive birth births, it's really

209
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 2: nice to hear that.

210
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,800
Speaker 3: Well, I say that, I meanly might not say that,

211
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 3: but I say that in that we were crying and

212
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 3: laughing and we were happy at the end of it all,

213
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,559
Speaker 3: and there were no long term repercussions, well, minimal long

214
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 3: term repercussions. There's always some, right.

215
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, but you know birth is supposed to

216
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 2: be a joyful, happy event. Yes, of course, it's a

217
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,080
Speaker 2: physically difficult you know for women they're pushing a baby

218
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,720
Speaker 2: out of their body or having cesarean. But the statistics

219
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,560
Speaker 2: show us that anywhere from twenty to forty eight percent

220
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 2: of women around the world are describing their birth as traumatic.

221
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,719
Speaker 2: In Australia it's one in three births.

222
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,200
Speaker 3: But that's staggering. That's such a.

223
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,439
Speaker 1: Lot lot staggerage.

224
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And a research study in Queensland, actually quite a

225
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 2: large study found it to be as high as forty

226
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 2: five point five percent of all birds. That's almost one

227
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 2: in two births. And it's really worrying statistics when you

228
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,080
Speaker 2: compare it to other diseases and conditions that have a

229
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 2: spotlight on it in society. Birth trauma is neglected and

230
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: we really need to do something about that.

231
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 3: So how do we find it though, how do we

232
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 3: actually I mean, because we've got somebody who's saying, yes,

233
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 3: I think it was traumatic. That's kind of different to

234
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 3: somebody saying we've met the criteria for what birth trauma

235
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 3: actually is. Do we have a clear definition of what

236
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 3: it is or does it simply come down to a

237
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 3: subjective sense of trauma?

238
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 2: Yes, so birth trama really is in the eye of

239
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: the beholder. So in fact, like a lot of people

240
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 2: don't know what birth romads, and many people mistakenly believe

241
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 2: that it only relates to a physical injury that happened

242
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 2: during the birth, but birth traumas it's often a psychological response.

243
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,199
Speaker 2: In essence, it's any form of physical or psychological injury.

244
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: Or damage that can occur during or.

245
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 2: After childbirth's and it's really up to how the mother

246
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 2: perceives her birth was. Some women will meet the full

247
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 2: criteria for PTSD, but even though not all women do

248
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,319
Speaker 2: develop that we have to recognize that if we've got

249
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 2: almost half the population of birthing women in Australia saying

250
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 2: their birth is traumatic, well, what is it, why and

251
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 2: what's causing it. Women can say their birth is traumatic

252
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 2: because of tearing because of an unexpected cesarian like you

253
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,320
Speaker 2: were talking about before, they had a birth plan and

254
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 2: it didn't go to plan and they weren't expecting that.

255
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,239
Speaker 1: That can be traumatic.

256
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 2: What causes trauma for someone can be very different for

257
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 2: another birthing woman. Maybe if I wasn't a midwife, having

258
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 2: that emergency cesarian might have been traumatic for me, But

259
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 2: for me, it wasn't traumatic that I had a cesarean

260
00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 2: despite planning to push the baby out.

261
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 3: So I may lose a whole lot of support for

262
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 3: what I'm about to say, and I want to be sensitive.

263
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 3: I know I'm a male. I know that I don't

264
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,839
Speaker 3: have to go through this, and therefore, in some ways

265
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 3: my question here may be unfair and it could be

266
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 3: completely inappropriate, but I'm going to ask it anyway. The

267
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 3: cynic might say birth is traumatic, it always has been

268
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 3: and it always will be, and maybe the numbers are

269
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 3: wrong at forty five percent. Another cynic might say, well,

270
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 3: we're just not resilient like we used to be. I mean,

271
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,840
Speaker 3: I know from being through this with my wife six times,

272
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 3: and obviously she's the one that did it, but we

273
00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,079
Speaker 3: have shared and laughed about the traumatic birth stories that

274
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,440
Speaker 3: we experience with our kids, and use that word fairly

275
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 3: loosely and fairly blithely to describe the absolute terror that

276
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 3: can wash over a woman and her partner as she

277
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,440
Speaker 3: goes through that birthing process. I mean, there have been

278
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 3: times where I've looked at Kylie and thought, I don't

279
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 3: think she can make it. I don't think she can

280
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,520
Speaker 3: do it, and it's been terrifying for me. I can't

281
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 3: imagine what she's gone through. I believe that trauma, as

282
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 3: much as we've laughed about it, may be an appropriate

283
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 3: word for almost every birth, and so part of me wonders,

284
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:45,040
Speaker 3: are we pathologizing and traumatizing a natural but actual traumatic process.

285
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 2: I think, yes, it might be traumatizing physically because you

286
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 2: know you're going through that massive physiological process, because there's.

287
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 3: A tearror, or because there's just there's something that pops somewhere.

288
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 2: But you know, the research shows us that when women

289
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 2: have been well supported during their labor and birth, and

290
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 2: they've had respectful maternity care, it doesn't matter the outcome,

291
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 2: they still perceive their experience as being positive, so and

292
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,520
Speaker 2: they come out feeling empowered and joyful, and they often

293
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 2: transition to motherhood better than those who come out feeling

294
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 2: they had a traumatic birth. And I think it needs

295
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 2: we need to come back to the you know, the

296
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 2: impact of true birth trauma.

297
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 3: So, Sharon, that's a really really helpful answer to my question,

298
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 3: because in spite of the quote unquote trauma that Kylie's experiences,

299
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,480
Speaker 3: we've gone through these six labors, we've always, always, except

300
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 3: in one case, felt that we've had really supportive medical staff.

301
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 3: I've been well trained as well as a support person

302
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 3: in that I know how to guide Kylie through those contractions,

303
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 3: how to time them, how to remind her that it's

304
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 3: a wave, it's washing in, it's washing out, how to

305
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 3: keep her lips loose so that she can remain loose

306
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 3: through the birthing process itself. I've been well trained in that.

307
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 3: In fact, I've just written a book about that, because

308
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 3: dads need to have that knowledge stuff that they can

309
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 3: be the support that's necessary. And I love what you've

310
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 3: said so that the overall experience doesn't reflect a traumatic moment,

311
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 3: And I think that's the great I love the way

312
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 3: you've answered that. It's so so wonderfully helpful. Sharon, our

313
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 3: time is done, but if people want to if people

314
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 3: want to know, it goes so fast, doesn't it. If

315
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 3: people want to communicate more with you about your book,

316
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 3: about your experience, about their experience, if they want to

317
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 3: be part of your Ending Birth Trauma project, or be

318
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 3: involved with the PhD research that you're doing right now

319
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 3: as you pursue your doctorate. What's the best way for

320
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 3: people to contact you and learn about your book, get

321
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 3: a copy of it, and maybe even contribute to the

322
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 3: conversation that you're creating.

323
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: I have website ending birth trauma dot com.

324
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 2: If you want to receive updates on when the book

325
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,479
Speaker 2: will be released and get pre release discounted rate, you

326
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,919
Speaker 2: can sign up on Ending birth Trauma dot com. Or

327
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: I can be contacted on Sharonstollier at gmail dot com.

328
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 3: Okay, so let me repeat that We've got Sharon Stollier,

329
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 3: that's st l at gmail dot com. You've got the

330
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 3: website ending Birthtrauma dot com, and you've also got Instagram

331
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 3: at ending birth Trauma. We will link to all of

332
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 3: those methods that people can contact you in our podcast

333
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 3: show notes. Sharon, what a delight to have this conversation

334
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 3: with you. I think that in spite of my potentially

335
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 3: insensitive question, you've done a really great job in explaining

336
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 3: what we can do to reduce birth trauma and help

337
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 3: people to help mothers to have positive birth experiences. And

338
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 3: I think that your book, Scars of Gold is going

339
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 3: to resonate with so many people. Good luck with the

340
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 3: book when it comes out. And thank you so much

341
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 3: for joining me on the podcast.

342
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so sovery much, Justin, and I appreciate it.

343
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 1: Thanks for your time.

344
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,119
Speaker 3: The Happy Famili's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

345
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 3: Bridge Media and Craig Brewce is our executive producer. If

346
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,719
Speaker 3: you want more info about anything we've talked about today,

347
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 3: we'll link to everything in the show notes that Scars

348
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 3: have Gold of the book, the website Ending Birth Trauma

349
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 3: dot com, and Sharon's contact details in case you want

350
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 3: to continue the conversation with her. And if you'd like

351
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 3: morefol about making your family happier, you can visit happyfamilies

352
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:34,159
Speaker 3: dot com dot you