1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: When Nigel Marsh turned sixty, he realized that his most 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: conventionally successful days might be behind him. But what does 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: that actually mean. After a long and lucrative career as 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: a top executive, Nigel knew the day would come when 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: he had to step back and slow down. Nigel's gone 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: from running big organizations with hundreds of staff to overseeing 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: just one employee himself. And while it takes humility to 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: accept such a huge change, his new more independent work 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: life has come with its own perks. So what is 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: the different kind of success that Nigel has found after 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: turning sixty. My name is doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 13 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how 14 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: to help you do your best work. On today's My 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: Favorite Tip episode, we go back to an interview from 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: the past and I pick out my favorite tip from 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: the interview. In today's show, I speak with Nigel Marsh 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: about his work self identity changing significantly as he approached 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: turning sixty. 20 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: So something you. 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: Write about is that you had to accept that your 22 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: most inverted commas conventionally successful days might be behind you, 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of referring, I guess to those you know, objective 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: career peaks, like being a CEO, for example, And I 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: would love to know what that felt like when you 26 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: came to that realization. How did you get there as well? 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: Well? When I got there really easily, just by opening 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: my eyes. 29 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: As I drive around in my Kia Rio watching twenty 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: seven year olds now Aston Martin, and as I read 31 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: the press of some knob jockey in New York has 32 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: just been made, so understanding it is completely easier. 33 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: I actually am. They're all lovely people that I judge 34 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 2: to think called the e fies recently one of the 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: you know, one of the judges. And then for some 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: reason I'd accepted to go to the actual awards and 37 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: present an award, which I usually just judge and don't 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: go to the thing. But it's brilliant just walking around going, 39 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: you know, there's all these people thrusting, positioning, telling you, 40 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,119 Speaker 2: you know whatever, and then you go. So that's where 41 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: the action is, and that's completely fine. I mean I'm 42 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: sitting there in my second hand clothes wanting to take 43 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: an early taxi. So it comes back to those four values, 44 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: you know, Honesty, humility. Just be clear, I do not 45 00:02:52,080 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: run a multinational company with fifteen thousand employees. One employee 46 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: you're talking to him. And then I think the second 47 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: part of the question is how does that feel. It 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: feels great, It feels fantastic, and I wouldn't swat places 49 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: in a million years. And I think the key again 50 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: back to those four values I spoke about, is the 51 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: honesty part. So what you can do is you can 52 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: be a little bit oppositional and go who that person 53 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: not very good really and that firm that they run 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: is very No, no, no, she is really really bright 55 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: and really successful and earns lots and lots of money 56 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: and is very powerful. Those are all the facts and 57 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: more so than me, and you are great as opposed 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: to having to. The only way you can be comfortable 59 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: with it is deny that he or she is. Does 60 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: that make sense? You can go Rupert Murdock has much 61 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: much much more money and power than I do. Nudge. 62 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: What I'm wondering, like, how do you transfer because I 63 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: imagine you know and we know each other when you 64 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: were CEO of Leo Bennette and I was a mere 65 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: minion on the on the on the shop floor looking out. 66 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: It was I but you were you were. 67 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: You were the best CEO that I've ever experienced working for. 68 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: And I say that, you know, not just because I'm 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: talking to you, but like, as a CEO, I would 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: imagine that you attach so much of your self identity 71 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: to that role and to what you do for work. 72 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: How did you almost de attach that and come not 73 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: to measure your life by things that are you know, 74 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: sort of obviously successful. 75 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: So gosh, that certainly that's a that's a very good question. 76 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: It is. One answer is the fat forty and fard experience. 77 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: Where where from then? I worked at it a lot. 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: I didn't want that to be my identity. I was 79 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: very committed to trying to do the best job I 80 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 2: could and be good at that job, but not make 81 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: it me post. I mean, you know, I people might 82 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: forget if they know me in Australia, but before I 83 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: was a straight down the line, conventional career warrior. So 84 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: I've done that and the way I was rewarded was 85 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 2: I was made redundant. So that's a useful lesson, you go, 86 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: I did what everyone else said, and I bade the rules, 87 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: and I got flipped onto the scrapping. So then when 88 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: you met me at Leabnette, that was post my year off, 89 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: having done some reflection and coming back so different to 90 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: if you'd known me when I was the CEO of 91 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: my first agency in Australia. I'm still hopefully good at 92 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: it in a nice bloke, but I was, you know, 93 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: I hadn't done the serious, proper, proper reflection of how 94 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: I wanted to be. But a second part to this 95 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: is me giving up drinking was quite a instructive process 96 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: in other areas of my life. So I haven't had 97 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: a drink in twenty years, and when I hadn't, I 98 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: give up drink before I took over Leebonnette as a CEO. 99 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: And the process of giving up drink, which was not 100 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: easy if you had based your life around alcohol, which 101 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: I had for the previous forty years, you discover that 102 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: it's down to you. And so it's about I learned 103 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: about putting meaningful, permanent change into your life. It just 104 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: happened to be I learned it about drink. You go, 105 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: if I'm going to make this fundamental shift in my life, 106 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: I can't be doing it for the affirmation, attention and 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: approval of other people, and I can't be doing it 108 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 2: expecting the support of other people. I mean nice if 109 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: I got it, but I can't be expecting it's a 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: real proper This is you know, if it is to be, 111 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: it is up to me type deal. And I meant it. 112 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: So I gave up drink and you know, idiots would 113 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: try and get me to drink or mock me for 114 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: not drinking, or I wouldn't be able to go in 115 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: a friendly you know, nights out or whatever. You but 116 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: it was you know, this is going to happen. The 117 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: main things, the main thing, the main thing, and that 118 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: experience helped me in a secret, passionate bid not to 119 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: fall into the trap that you're talking about. 120 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this excerpt of my chat with Nigel, 121 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: you might enjoy listening to the whole interview, which you 122 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: can find a link to in the show notes. If 123 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips to improve the way that 124 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains 125 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 126 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through the 127 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at 128 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Howiwork dot code That's how I Work dot co. Thank 129 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: you for sharing part of your day with me by 130 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: listening to How I Work. Keen for more tips on 131 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: how to work better. Connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. 132 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. 133 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 134 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: the Warrangery people, part of the Koln Nation. I am 135 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: so grateful for being able to work and live on 136 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: this beautiful land, and I want to pay my respects 137 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: to elders, past, present and emerging. How I Work is 138 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios, 139 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Nimba who did the audio 140 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.