Speaker 1: This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
Speaker 1: urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
Speaker 1: thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old
Speaker 1: devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
Speaker 1: bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2: Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
Speaker 2: to grab something.
Speaker 1: Panic.
Speaker 3: I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead?
Speaker 1: Eight Confusion World about five minutes.
Speaker 4: Say sit not to suicide.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent.
Speaker 6: This is emersing.
Speaker 1: What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 5: The Truth About Amy?
Speaker 6: Episode three?
Speaker 1: I am Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 7: And I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 1: It's been three years since Anna has seen her sister
Speaker 1: Nancy and her Nieces. It's a warm sunny day in Perth,
Speaker 1: the Swan River sparkling. Only a few clouds can be
Speaker 1: seen on the horizon. We take two cars, the camera
Speaker 1: crew and me in one, Anna and Allison in the other.
Speaker 6: Good to catch up with him.
Speaker 1: Anna says how excited she is about seeing everyone again.
Speaker 5: Nice to you to make.
Speaker 1: That Before leaving she rings Nancy to let her know
Speaker 1: they're on the way.
Speaker 6: Nancy sounded a little bit of horse this morning.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so that generally happens to her voice when she
Speaker 8: starts to get nervous and anxious about things, And generally
Speaker 8: that's all to do with Amy. She's had this condition
Speaker 8: for ten years now, I guess.
Speaker 7: So that's why you had to take up the plan
Speaker 7: for Amy, right, because it's just really too hard for
Speaker 7: Nancy with everything and having to look after the kids
Speaker 7: one hundred.
Speaker 5: She was devastated when this happened.
Speaker 8: It tore Nancy's world apart, and it devastated her as
Speaker 8: a point and it still does to this day. And
Speaker 8: I remember how angry I was, not just upset about
Speaker 8: losing Amy, but how angry I was about how we
Speaker 8: lost her and the way the police would treat Amy.
Speaker 8: I was angry, and I remember going back to Sydney
Speaker 8: and I'd be contacting Nancy and asking her to contact people.
Speaker 8: Have you called this person, have you asked this question?
Speaker 8: Have the police got back to you? Did the coroner
Speaker 8: say anything? And I didn't realize at first that I
Speaker 8: was pushing a broken person to do something they were
Speaker 8: not capable of.
Speaker 5: And one day it just hit.
Speaker 8: Me, It just clicked if I had a conversation with her,
Speaker 8: and I realized that she can't do this, and it's
Speaker 8: me that's thinking of all these things to do, you know,
Speaker 8: people to contact, people.
Speaker 5: To speak to, the questions to ask.
Speaker 8: And we had a conversation one day and I said
Speaker 8: to her, how about you focus on looking after Amy's
Speaker 8: children and protecting them.
Speaker 5: And I'll focus on Amy. And we agreed that's what
Speaker 5: we'd do.
Speaker 7: Tell me you've organized a bit of a surprise meeting
Speaker 7: today with for Larry, the police officer who was at
Speaker 7: the scene, to come and meet Nancy. Now Nancy has
Speaker 7: met him, but she doesn't remember.
Speaker 5: Right, that's correct.
Speaker 8: So I didn't know this until I spoke to Larry.
Speaker 9: He was one of the officers that I saw Nancy,
Speaker 9: I believe, down at the bottom gate when she first
Speaker 9: arrived at the house after Amy died, and then he
Speaker 9: and another police officer went to Nancy's home to let
Speaker 9: her know.
Speaker 8: That the detectives had deemed Amy's death suicide. Nancy can't
Speaker 8: remember that when you receive information like that and you
Speaker 8: get told something is horrific as what she got told
Speaker 8: that night I mean, Amy was the love of a life,
Speaker 8: and when you get told something like that, your world
Speaker 8: falls apart. How do you remember things that have said?
Speaker 8: How do you remember? You know, just details like remembering
Speaker 8: the person that told you that. It is so much
Speaker 8: of that night that is such a blur to her.
Speaker 8: She doesn't remember the conversation that she and I had
Speaker 8: the very next morning when she told me that the
Speaker 8: police had been in touch with her and told her
Speaker 8: that Amy's death was a suicide.
Speaker 5: She doesn't remember that phone call to me.
Speaker 8: She doesn't remember that night when Amy died, the conversation
Speaker 8: that she and I had on that phone, But I
Speaker 8: remember it because it was devastating to me and it
Speaker 8: was painful. I won't forget it. But it was so
Speaker 8: much for her being Amy's mum, that a lot of
Speaker 8: it is a blur. So she doesn't remember meeting Larry
Speaker 8: that night. So coming here to Perth, I thought I'd
Speaker 8: reach out to Larry and see if he'd be willing
Speaker 8: to come to Nancy's place and meet her the first time.
Speaker 5: Well, for her it's like.
Speaker 8: Meeting him for the first time because she doesn't remember,
Speaker 8: and for me, I'd like to see him again as well,
Speaker 8: because the only time I've ever met Larry was in
Speaker 8: the courtroom when he gave evidence, and it was so brief.
Speaker 8: He got up and he gave his evidence, and after
Speaker 8: he gave the evidence, he came down and he shook
Speaker 8: the hands of people who were there for Amy. And
Speaker 8: when he got to me, I just said to him,
Speaker 8: thank you, and he just leant down and hugged me,
Speaker 8: just gave me a hug, and I could see the
Speaker 8: pain on his face.
Speaker 5: And I think it's really.
Speaker 8: Important that Nancy meets him as well, because I think,
Speaker 8: you know, she would like to thank him for giving
Speaker 8: his honest recollection of that night.
Speaker 6: Today's going to be hard for Nancy, though, isn't it.
Speaker 8: It will be, I think, although it's although I maybe
Speaker 8: organize this surprise her to meet Larry, I think also
Speaker 8: it will probably hit a nerve as well, because once
Speaker 8: she realizes who he is, I think, you know, it'll
Speaker 8: be emotional for her. But I think she'll be okay
Speaker 8: because we'll be together. So that's what makes it okay.
Speaker 6: You are for each other what the other isn't I guess,
Speaker 6: you know what.
Speaker 8: It's funny to say that because when Nancy and I
Speaker 8: had that conversation years ago, and I said to her,
Speaker 8: you look after Amy's children and I'll look after Amy.
Speaker 8: I said to her, you know what it's like being
Speaker 8: one person, but we're splitting ourselves in half. That's exactly
Speaker 8: what I said to her. She's never been the same
Speaker 8: to her.
Speaker 5: No, she hasn't, not at all. No.
Speaker 8: But thank God for Amy's children. You know, they've kept
Speaker 8: her going. They have been her focus. And it's been
Speaker 8: very hard for her because you know, at the beginning,
Speaker 8: you're talking about two little girls who have just lost
Speaker 8: their mum, and Nancy.
Speaker 5: Had to hold herself together.
Speaker 8: You know, so many times when Nancy wanted to, I
Speaker 8: guess break down or cry or whatever, she'd have to
Speaker 8: hold that because she had to be strong for those children.
Speaker 8: And those children seeing Nancy upset all the time isn't
Speaker 8: good for them.
Speaker 5: You know, they love their Nan.
Speaker 8: I remember when not long after Amy passed and Nancy
Speaker 8: had to get back to some sort of normality and
Speaker 8: she was working full time, and she had the kids
Speaker 8: living with us, and she went back to work.
Speaker 5: And Nancy would obviously she stays.
Speaker 8: In regular contact with me, and she'd tell me how
Speaker 8: if she was home late the girls would be very
Speaker 8: upset and they'd be at the window looking out the window,
Speaker 8: waiting for her. And she said, you know, they just
Speaker 8: really want me home and they get upset if I'm late.
Speaker 8: And I had to point it out to me and
Speaker 8: I said, Nancy, they're scared you're not coming home. I said,
Speaker 8: I have to think about it. Their mum was there one
Speaker 8: minute and the next minute, their mum's gone. Now they're
Speaker 8: with you, and they live with you. And if you
Speaker 8: say you're going to be home at three o'clock or
Speaker 8: four o'clock and you're not there, I said, what do
Speaker 8: you think goes through their minds? I said, of course
Speaker 8: they're looking at that window waiting for you because they've
Speaker 8: lost their mum.
Speaker 5: They don't need to lose their nan. It's awful, Thank
Speaker 5: you man.
Speaker 6: As always, not's just so appreciative for you. You speak
Speaker 6: with your honey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm about to cry. I just hate it.
Speaker 6: Like day, it's going to be good. No, it will
Speaker 6: beat therapy.
Speaker 5: I can't wait to see them.
Speaker 8: But when I think back about things like that, Alison,
Speaker 8: like those little girls you know, worrying about.
Speaker 5: Nuds you're not coming home. They're just babies. They're just little.
Speaker 10: Girls and Amy Amy that Amy's babies and she should
Speaker 10: be here. Her life was cut short.
Speaker 1: Fighting for Amy has taken its toll on Anna and
Speaker 1: the rest of the family, but they want their story toll.
Speaker 1: They find strength in each other, but sometimes it does
Speaker 1: feel very lonely. When we arrive, only Nancy comes to
Speaker 1: the front door. Amy's daughters and friends know that we
Speaker 1: the journalists and camera crew are turning up, but they
Speaker 1: don't know Anna is with us. Nancy takes us through
Speaker 1: the house to where they're all waiting in the backyard
Speaker 1: entertainment area. When they see Anna, Hello, Tay and Neya
Speaker 1: immediately jump up excitedly and give her a big hope.
Speaker 11: It's just so much so when you're moving to Sydney.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, Oh.
Speaker 3: Miss your girls so much.
Speaker 12: You don't believe that it's me.
Speaker 8: Yeah, cry, I'm not a big fan praying either.
Speaker 1: Anna also enjoys a hug with her sister Nancy, who
Speaker 1: she hasn't seen for three years.
Speaker 12: Oh wow, the cool looks goodness.
Speaker 5: He doesn't.
Speaker 1: Also at the reunion are Amy's best friends Natasha Selsa,
Speaker 1: who she used to live with, and Aaron Gower, who
Speaker 1: Amy met at high school.
Speaker 3: I said, I wasn't.
Speaker 5: Coming back here to your business, mean in Sydney at
Speaker 5: this time. Be back to your visit me, Tash.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 7: Like Amy. Nancy was a young mum. Amy Lee Wensley
Speaker 7: was born on eleventh of February nineteen ninety at Nepean
Speaker 7: Hospital in New South Wales to Nancy and John Wensley.
Speaker 7: Amy and her parents lived with John's mother, who was
Speaker 7: so excited about the birth of her first grandchild. Amy
Speaker 7: would grow up to form a very close bond with
Speaker 7: her grandmother, whom she would go on to affectionately call Marzy.
Speaker 7: Marzy adored Amy and she would always fuss over her granddaughter.
Speaker 7: When Amy was aged about three, Nancy and John decided
Speaker 7: to move to Ballina, where Amy's sister Sam was born.
Speaker 7: Amy was upset Sam was not a boy and asked
Speaker 7: her mum to take Sam back to the hospital and
Speaker 7: bring home a boy. Despite wanting a brother, Amy adored
Speaker 7: having a little sister. A few years later, they moved
Speaker 7: back to Sydney to be closer to family. Marzie and
Speaker 7: her auntie Anna were thrilled to have them return and
Speaker 7: to be closer to the children. Three years later, Amy
Speaker 7: became a big sister again to Kelly. Amy was delighted
Speaker 7: and spent much of a time fussing over her little sisters,
Speaker 7: always looking after and playing with them. For a short while,
Speaker 7: Amy attended Newtown Primary School and enrolled at Brent Street
Speaker 7: Dance Studio, where she took part in the End of
Speaker 7: Yew dance performance. She loved dancing and going to rehearsals.
Speaker 7: Amy's parents separated and Nancy was looking to start a
Speaker 7: new life elsewhere. Nancy and her three daughters moved to Perth,
Speaker 7: where her brother was living with his family. Amy settled
Speaker 7: him well to her new life and made new friends
Speaker 7: in high school. It's where she met Aaron Gower. Amy
Speaker 7: continued to include her sisters in everything. They shared a
Speaker 7: close bond until the day.
Speaker 3: She died too.
Speaker 8: When Amy died, they aged just seventeen and twenty and
Speaker 8: the girls are very close. When they were growing up,
Speaker 8: Amy used to be like a little mum to them.
Speaker 8: She used to fuss over them and play with them
Speaker 8: and make sure they're okay and make sure they weren't misbehaving.
Speaker 8: She was a proper little and as they got a
Speaker 8: little bit older became teenagers, Amy used to do things
Speaker 8: with her friends, and sometimes she'd take her sisters along
Speaker 8: with her. That's how close they were. And when Amy
Speaker 8: passed away, her sisters were so devastated and they still
Speaker 8: are at the loss of their big sister and not
Speaker 8: having her around anymore.
Speaker 5: They missed terribly.
Speaker 7: After Amy died, Kelly received a Facebook message from David Simmons' aunt,
Speaker 7: Chrissy Bull, who said.
Speaker 13: I will never ever believe that she took her own
Speaker 13: life because that was not what Amy would ever do. Kelly,
Speaker 13: all I can say to you is that Amy was
Speaker 13: a big part of our family too.
Speaker 8: It shows that it's not just our family and friends
Speaker 8: who who believe that Amy did not take her life.
Speaker 8: There's clearly members of David's own family who feel the
Speaker 8: same way or think the same way and don't believe
Speaker 8: that Amy took her life either.
Speaker 5: And that says a lot. I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 7: Then two weeks later, she sent another message to Amy's
Speaker 7: best friend Erin, saying this, I.
Speaker 13: Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but my
Speaker 13: family and I are having a private service for Amy.
Speaker 7: Chrissy complains they weren't invited to Amy's official funeral.
Speaker 13: That is the reason my family wasn't at Amy's funeral.
Speaker 13: We weren't told nothing at all. Nancy had no intention
Speaker 13: whatsoever to let Tay's great grandparents even know. We're all
Speaker 13: drained by what's gone on. I'm not letting off steam
Speaker 13: to you by any means whatsoever. I just know that
Speaker 13: this isn't the way Amy would have wanted. This family
Speaker 13: aren't even allowed to see the girls. Just a few
Speaker 13: heads up on why my family's hurting, Aaron replies.
Speaker 5: What does this have to do with me?
Speaker 13: Just let you know we cared for your bestie two.
Speaker 8: I understand exactly why her family is feeling the way
Speaker 8: they are.
Speaker 13: I was always the one to help her out. I
Speaker 13: know what you're saying me, I do. May she be
Speaker 13: resting in peace and the truth come out in the end.
Speaker 5: I love to come as it means.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Amy's loved ones settle into conversation, enjoy a game poul,
Speaker 1: and make the most of their special but limited time together.
Speaker 1: And I can't believe how much her daughters have grown,
Speaker 1: both physically and emotionally.
Speaker 3: Surprise.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just a little, just a little.
Speaker 3: I don't worry.
Speaker 5: I'm nearly taller than everyone here.
Speaker 14: Except except you should take up to me, be tall,
Speaker 14: hopefully look at you.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, will will sit down? It's making me
Speaker 5: a drink. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: I mean she's that's okay.
Speaker 3: So anyone can.
Speaker 5: Tell me anything that's going It's got the braces. How's
Speaker 5: that going on?
Speaker 3: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: I just took them out because I can't speak with them.
Speaker 2: It's like my mouth closed like this.
Speaker 8: How much longer you do?
Speaker 2: I've had them for like two years and a bit now,
Speaker 2: but they only said I was meant to have them
Speaker 2: for like only a year because my teeth weren't that bad.
Speaker 8: They weren't that bad.
Speaker 2: And I have a dent disappointment, I think on Wednesday,
Speaker 2: and then yeah.
Speaker 15: You'll find out then hopefully find out if I get
Speaker 15: the mouths and you're just gonna have beautiful teeth.
Speaker 12: Yeah, and you're missing what's going on.
Speaker 6: Not much is growing one at the moment.
Speaker 5: For me, it's what year are you in now?
Speaker 2: I'm in year nine and you're liking school?
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's all right, nothing too interesting in the moment.
Speaker 5: But education is important.
Speaker 12: So when Amy was a little girl, when your mum
Speaker 12: was little, she always just to get upset when she
Speaker 12: had to go home to Nan. She wanted to stay
Speaker 12: with me, and she was sitting in the car and
Speaker 12: I used to do this to her.
Speaker 1: Anna points to her eye, her heart, then to Tay
Speaker 1: and Naya, I love you.
Speaker 5: And then she'd do this to me.
Speaker 8: She'd point to her eye, point to her heart, point
Speaker 8: to me, and then hold up two fingers to say,
Speaker 8: I love you too.
Speaker 5: And that's why you two do it, because your mum
Speaker 5: taught you to do it.
Speaker 15: Yeah, what was the other thing your mum taught you that?
Speaker 5: I taught her?
Speaker 8: There was something and I used to tell her something,
Speaker 8: and she taught you to that. Oh about sisters.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what because it's true, right, that's true.
Speaker 1: Right before we know it, over an hour has passed.
Speaker 1: Larry is due to arrive any minute.
Speaker 4: Oh, Nancy, Larry, there are you guaranteed. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3: Buddy's been lingering. Oh man, I was right. I want
Speaker 3: to say you because I never got to tell you
Speaker 3: after the inquest. Thank you so much, been there and
Speaker 3: doing all this, doing all this with us.
Speaker 4: It's something I have to do. I have to see
Speaker 4: the job, even though I'm not a pretty much.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. You would you like to come
Speaker 3: and meet the girls. I means girls.
Speaker 1: Yes. Nancy goes on to show Larry a shelf where
Speaker 1: pictures of Amy and her daughters are carefully placed, as
Speaker 1: well as a candle they light on the anniversary of
Speaker 1: her death. Before then Taynya and Larry meet for the
Speaker 1: first time.
Speaker 3: But this is Larry, this is yeah, and.
Speaker 1: You're the tallest and the I picked that up straight away.
Speaker 1: I should have been a detective.
Speaker 3: We wish, yes, actually we wish.
Speaker 5: It's a good surprise.
Speaker 15: Next stop it so the girls just asking me his
Speaker 15: surprise visitor and we just told him that you're the
Speaker 15: police officer.
Speaker 12: It turned up the first one to turn up and
Speaker 12: tried to help their mom.
Speaker 4: And I made a pledge that night to Amy. I
Speaker 4: stayed in the room with the farewell and I made
Speaker 4: a pledge that I said, we were going to get
Speaker 4: to the bottom of this.
Speaker 3: We'll get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1: Everyone here is united in their grief. Emotions are raw,
Speaker 1: but they're here for one reason, and I hope that
Speaker 1: the truth about Amy will finally be realized. Nancy tells
Speaker 1: me how the passing of time has not made it
Speaker 1: any easier.
Speaker 3: I have trouble sleeping at night. Oh, I can be
Speaker 3: so tired and I'll go to bed and something will
Speaker 3: just trickle me in, I sends. I closed my eyes.
Speaker 3: I go back to that night, that phone call. I
Speaker 3: raung her when I got home from work, hearing is
Speaker 3: hearing names voice, hysterical crying, And.
Speaker 1: In that phone call, you said, what come here? Come
Speaker 1: come home?
Speaker 3: Kiss shit? You want the girls? Come here? I don't
Speaker 3: care if you stay here for a month. Here whatever,
Speaker 3: get here now.
Speaker 1: She fully agree with you. Did you feel any sort
Speaker 1: of pushback?
Speaker 3: No, Yes, mum, I'll be there soon. He said, Do
Speaker 3: you want me to come get here? She said no,
Speaker 3: because she knew if I would have went out there,
Speaker 3: there would have been a big argument with David and
Speaker 3: myself and son. I was there soon, so you're sure
Speaker 3: I'll be there soon.
Speaker 1: She was just trying to find the line of least
Speaker 1: resistance so that she could get in the car and
Speaker 1: come here with the girls.
Speaker 3: Yes, when I wrung Amy, she was hysterical. If gone,
Speaker 3: what fuck happens? A hit you because grabbed me by
Speaker 3: the throat and throw me on the ground. Gone, what
Speaker 3: he's grabbed you and grabbed you by the throat? For
Speaker 3: the ground, what the fuck? Because she had a said
Speaker 3: two bracksta, he got a paralyzed her by doing something stupid.
Speaker 1: Like that from her previous neck injury from him.
Speaker 3: Being drunk behind the wheel and crushing the car.
Speaker 7: It's worth noting here that David Simmons denies being drunk
Speaker 7: at the time of the accident, and there's no proof
Speaker 7: he was because police did not attend.
Speaker 1: So when you heard her say he's thrown me on
Speaker 1: the ground.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when I said, pack his ship and the
Speaker 3: girls get down here now. And by then only had
Speaker 3: calmed down. She wasn't as hysterical as she was when
Speaker 3: I first rung and okay, I'll be there soon. So
Speaker 3: when I heard the carp up, I've gone to the
Speaker 3: front door and it was him, and he knows I'm mistead.
Speaker 1: Is that what he said to you? That was his
Speaker 1: first words.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was his first words. I mistead she killed usself.
Speaker 3: I didn't believe it. I was in shock.
Speaker 1: I didn't believe I mean, that's almost possible for you
Speaker 1: to grasp on your front veranda like I.
Speaker 3: Was in shark. I couldn't believe it. That's why I
Speaker 3: had to go up to the house I just wanted
Speaker 3: to get up there to find out.
Speaker 1: As quick as you could.
Speaker 3: Yes, I remember it was raining that night too. I
Speaker 3: was driving to the house. I was raining.
Speaker 1: When you think back on the conversation that you had
Speaker 1: with Amy, because you must have replayed this over and
Speaker 1: over in your mind a million times, is there anything
Speaker 1: in that conversation that you thought she was off kilter,
Speaker 1: a little bit strange or not. No, so I was
Speaker 1: speaking normally or her usual.
Speaker 3: She was hysterical when I called because it was a
Speaker 3: big fight that they were having. And when I told
Speaker 3: her to come here, I'll be there soon, and she
Speaker 3: wasn't ahsterical animal. And then I thought, she's going to
Speaker 3: pack some other stuff and come straight down here.
Speaker 1: Because when the police first said suicide, you must have
Speaker 1: immediately gone back to that conversation you had with her
Speaker 1: and thought, hang on a minute, she.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have put her girls
Speaker 3: in the car and walk a couple of meters into
Speaker 3: the house and do that. Why she's put her girls
Speaker 3: in the car and said where are you going to
Speaker 3: Nana Pops and staying there. You wouldn't do that. Why
Speaker 3: would you say we're going to Nana and Pops. We're
Speaker 3: staying Nana Pops and then go inside and commit suicide.
Speaker 1: It's a very strange sequence, isn't it. It is in
Speaker 1: the immediate hours and days afterward. Nancy, did you talk
Speaker 1: to the girls? I know they were very, very young.
Speaker 3: I've never asked them any questions about that day, that afternoon.
Speaker 3: I've never asked.
Speaker 1: But have they said anything to you? Have they speaking
Speaker 1: out loud? Have they said something that's made you think?
Speaker 1: Hang on?
Speaker 3: The youngest one as always said, if mom wanted to leave,
Speaker 3: it would hurt her.
Speaker 1: So you take it that's overheard from some conversation perhaps, or.
Speaker 3: They've seen the arguments, or they would have seen the
Speaker 3: arguments the fights that for her to come out and
Speaker 3: just say that.
Speaker 1: So, after all you've been through, after the initial investigation,
Speaker 1: if I can call it that, and then another one
Speaker 1: after that, then the cold case review, then the coroner's
Speaker 1: court ten years on, what do you think happened?
Speaker 3: She didn't commit suicide.
Speaker 1: You're very convinced, absolutely. How do you then balance up
Speaker 1: what's happened in the years since with nothing happening.
Speaker 3: It's a joke. It's a joke. Why weren't forensics out
Speaker 3: there that night. They should have been there even if
Speaker 3: I thought it was suicide, so they should have called
Speaker 3: forensics out there, But I didn't. Her girls miss their
Speaker 3: mum every day. They would prefer to be living with
Speaker 3: their mum and living with me.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the way the police have
Speaker 1: handled this whole thing.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a joke, absolute joke. I should have done more.
Speaker 3: That's the why I say it. I should have done more.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's turned out this way? Do
Speaker 1: you think it's just circumstance? Amy was just unlucky, if
Speaker 1: I can, If I can put it that way.
Speaker 3: Yes, maybe if the detective that came out that night
Speaker 3: wasn't going on and you'll leave that night after that shit,
Speaker 3: maybe he would have decided to get forensics out and
Speaker 3: do his job properly. But to me, my eyes, the
Speaker 3: way I say it, all you cared about was, well,
Speaker 3: this is my last shift. I'm going on annual leave.
Speaker 3: If I get forensics out, I've got to stay longer.
Speaker 3: That's the way I say it. Not doing their job?
Speaker 3: Do you worry about going on annual leave.
Speaker 1: It's incredible to think that a young mum can be
Speaker 1: shot in that fashion. Let me put it another way,
Speaker 1: can suffer a fatal word in her own bedroom, and
Speaker 1: yet the whole case there, ever, after, almost falls between
Speaker 1: the cracks. It's very hard to get your head around,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 3: It makes me angry. It makes me angry. Don't know
Speaker 3: how they can make up for that, what they've put
Speaker 3: my family through, especially Amy's daughters.
Speaker 1: How can this thing be fixed? Is it as simple
Speaker 1: as somebody somewhere developing a conscience?
Speaker 3: Well, I hope say there's a million dollars out there
Speaker 3: for her if they want to come forward, or they
Speaker 3: can be anonymous, but come forward and told them what
Speaker 3: they know. And we all know Amy didn't do this.
Speaker 3: How could she hold a double barrel shotgun? How could
Speaker 3: she turn her head like that? When she couldn't even
Speaker 3: turn her head like that because of her neck, should
Speaker 3: have to move her whole body. So how does that
Speaker 3: make sense?
Speaker 1: Doesn't Well? Your opinion is backed up by the experts,
Speaker 1: isn't it. There? Exactly not one, but two.
Speaker 3: Two biomechanic experts exactly.
Speaker 1: Both said to the coroner that they were convinced, in
Speaker 1: their opinion professional opinion, Amy did not shoot herself yep.
Speaker 3: And what's happened. I think so we were failed by
Speaker 3: the police. The coroner just got no words for it.
Speaker 3: It's just a joke. Someone needs to have a conscience.
Speaker 3: Think of aim as daughters. Think of them, what they're
Speaker 3: going through, what about their mental health? Think of them,
Speaker 3: Do the right thing and speak up. That's what someone
Speaker 3: needs to do that knows something. Speak up that Aim
Speaker 3: is daughters.
Speaker 1: And just finally, Constable Larry Blandford.
Speaker 3: Oh, here's a lovely man like Oh, I met him
Speaker 3: properly today. I can't remember him coming to me the
Speaker 3: nighted and I can't remember seeing him up at the house.
Speaker 3: But meeting him today was saying nice, knowing that they
Speaker 3: still play on his mind. He cares and he knows
Speaker 3: that it's not right how we have been traded, how
Speaker 3: Amy's daughters have been traded. It's not right.
Speaker 1: Well, he was one of three policemen who turned up,
Speaker 1: two policemen and one police woman, Yes, who turned up
Speaker 1: when it happened. And all three of those uniformed officers
Speaker 1: expressed their doubts.
Speaker 3: Yes, and still those detectives just over their head. Why
Speaker 3: and you'll leave? That just pisses me off.
Speaker 7: Nancy is referring to what Detective Kirkman told the inquest
Speaker 7: that he was due to start seven weeks long servicely
Speaker 7: as soon as the shift ended.
Speaker 3: And how disgusting is that just makes me angry. I'd
Speaker 3: love for him to look at Amy's daughters and look
Speaker 3: them in their eye and explain why why he failed them.
Speaker 1: So Simmons brings the girls, who were already in the
Speaker 1: car anyway.
Speaker 3: Because Amy put them in the car.
Speaker 1: Amy put them there. He brings them here.
Speaker 7: Pausing here. In his testimony at the inquest, David Simmons
Speaker 7: says he was the one who put the kids in
Speaker 7: the car. However, Amy's family don't believe him.
Speaker 1: He tells you Amy's dead. Was he emotional, No, he
Speaker 1: wasn't crying. Was he was he apologetic? Was he?
Speaker 3: Oh? He did? Actually later when I was yelling and screaming,
Speaker 3: was crying, Well, what I know, insanity is. And then
Speaker 3: when I went to the house, He's come back to
Speaker 3: the house not long after it, and we were arguing
Speaker 3: and I'm yelling, screaming and him, it's your fault. And
Speaker 3: I remember the female police officer grabbing me from behind.
Speaker 1: Consortable Dixon, yes, and.
Speaker 3: Another officer standing in front of me, hold me back
Speaker 3: because I was going for him. And then Larry Tommy
Speaker 3: sitting car.
Speaker 1: Why did you say that at the house? Why did
Speaker 1: you tell Simmons you did it.
Speaker 3: Amy? It was basically here, Amy was packing her stuff
Speaker 3: and coming here, bringing the girls here, and she was
Speaker 3: staying here. Something made her go back in that house,
Speaker 3: put the girls in, and go back in that house,
Speaker 3: and then she was spaced to get in the car
Speaker 3: and come.
Speaker 1: You clearly didn't get on with the bloke. You had
Speaker 1: him pegged quite early on. It's a bit of a
Speaker 1: no hoper. As you had those conversations with Amy, did
Speaker 1: you you said at all in the months leading up
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Look, you know I felt sheeney a long long time ago.
Speaker 1: Did she want to leave him?
Speaker 3: She has tried, but she would kick him out, believe,
Speaker 3: and then it would be I'm not drinking anymore. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do it anymore, the drugs, drinking, and
Speaker 3: he'll talk his way back in slowly, and then as
Speaker 3: soon as he's back it's back to his old self.
Speaker 3: So it's one of those ones. How many? This is
Speaker 3: another thing that really hits me. They said there's no
Speaker 3: report of domestic violence. How many women report domestic violence.
Speaker 3: There's so many women out there that don't report it,
Speaker 3: and obviously Amy was one of them, so for them
Speaker 3: the place to say there was no domestic violence in
Speaker 3: the past, Well, how do you know just because she
Speaker 3: didn't report it, because a lot of women don't. So
Speaker 3: don't sit there and say they weren't any violence in
Speaker 3: their relationship when there was.
Speaker 7: In her findings, the coroner acknowledges evidence of a volatile
Speaker 7: relationship subject to jealousy and threats of separation, with Amy
Speaker 7: only taking Simmons back because he promised he would change.
Speaker 1: It's a high bar, isn't it if you have to
Speaker 1: make an official report. Difficult thing to do? Yes, did
Speaker 1: she ever say to you, mum? You know he drinks
Speaker 1: too much, she's into drugs. How does she characterize his
Speaker 1: behavior to you?
Speaker 3: Sicker and drugs, cigareine and drinking all the time, and
Speaker 3: like I said, he would stop or stop, I won't
Speaker 3: do it anymore, and then wais all his way back
Speaker 3: into a life again. And it's the same cycle over
Speaker 3: and iron over. Hopefully someone like I said, think of
Speaker 3: I'm a girls two girls were without that mum, And
Speaker 3: there right thing. Let's hope that's all. I want someone
Speaker 3: to be arrested. Charles walked away.
Speaker 7: Daughter en honestly well, Nancy has cared for her granddaughters
Speaker 7: since Amy's passing. Initially David Simmons did see his daughter,
Speaker 7: but that didn't last long and Nancy now has a
Speaker 7: lifetime restraining order against him.
Speaker 3: I've got to have it on my phone, and I
Speaker 3: said to take a photo of it and leave it
Speaker 3: on my phone, like if wearing the shopping center wherever,
Speaker 3: and he approaches us, that I ring the place straight away,
Speaker 3: and I've got that to say. I've got a restraining.
Speaker 1: Order family violence restraining order. So when did you take
Speaker 1: this out against David Robert Simmons twenty seventeen? And why
Speaker 1: did you take that out then?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Because he came here and threatened us. I don't know,
Speaker 3: we're looking after his daughter, raising his daughter, not getting
Speaker 3: any financial support for his daughter, comes here and threatens us,
Speaker 3: Like what kind of person? Why would you do that
Speaker 3: when you know that your daughter's getting looked after and
Speaker 3: loved and you want to come here and threaten us.
Speaker 1: But this is three years after Yeah, Amy died.
Speaker 3: There's people out there that know that he's got a
Speaker 3: violent history. Why would the cords give me that for life?
Speaker 1: That's a lifetime restraining order.
Speaker 3: Yes, lifetime. That's just saying something, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It says a lot, Yeah it does.
Speaker 3: It's just someone out there needs to just bring up.
Speaker 1: And tell the truth. Yes, the truth about Amy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, trust about Amy.
Speaker 1: After finishing up my interview with Nancy, Tay and Naya
Speaker 1: decide they'd like to pay tribute to their mum in
Speaker 1: their own words for this podcast. And it's worth noting
Speaker 1: that these are the girls' nicknames. We've purposefully not included
Speaker 1: their full names to protect their privacy.
Speaker 14: I gave Nay the nickname because I couldn't pronounce her name,
Speaker 14: probably growing up here, and I don't know how I
Speaker 14: got mine from.
Speaker 5: I think I might pot Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, probably Okay. By the time we put this to air,
Speaker 1: it's ten years since you lost your mum. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: are your strongest memories of your mum?
Speaker 2: Now? Not a lot, but I remember maybe every we
Speaker 2: would always watch a movie, either in the cinemas or
Speaker 2: like at home. We would always like all Matt in
Speaker 2: ones Is and eat popcorn and watch movies Friday night.
Speaker 1: Movie Night.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: It's hard, isn't it, because you two work four and
Speaker 1: almost four and six respectively, and it's very young, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to go back for anyone to think about personal memories.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a very long time and it was
Speaker 5: a redden.
Speaker 8: We're both very young.
Speaker 14: It's always nice to hear stories about how much of
Speaker 14: a good person our mum was growing up and the
Speaker 14: woman she became to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like.
Speaker 2: Knowing that we are both very similar to her, like
Speaker 2: growing up. We both look similar to her as well. Well,
Speaker 2: we like the same things that she liked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see her features in both of you
Speaker 1: in different ways.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Always good.
Speaker 2: When I'm feeling like sad, I always have the chance
Speaker 2: to look at all the photos, go through all the
Speaker 2: photos with family.
Speaker 5: It's nice.
Speaker 7: Nayo goes on to tell Liam that she can still
Speaker 7: remember the last time she saw her mom.
Speaker 2: Mom. She told me that she needed to go back
Speaker 2: inside to grab something, and she told me that the
Speaker 2: next movie we're gonna watch would be Rio. Yeah, yes, so,
Speaker 2: and then she went inside and then she never came
Speaker 2: back out.
Speaker 14: To be honest, it does have an effect on me,
Speaker 14: but I don't think it affects me as much as
Speaker 14: it does everyone else. I know that some people have
Speaker 14: it a lot worse than others because they were a
Speaker 14: lot closer to her than some of us, and the
Speaker 14: pressure for me personally, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2: This could have happened a lot easier if, yeah, it
Speaker 2: was done properly, But it's still going on like ten
Speaker 2: years now, so it is kind of hard. I'm like
Speaker 2: happy that something's still like happening because we're getting somewhere,
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't really anywhere at the start, but now
Speaker 2: it's kind of getting somewhere and getting closer. So I
Speaker 2: just hope that you can actually find who don't it.
Speaker 14: It's not too painful for me, but I know that
Speaker 14: some people get really emotional and upset with these things,
Speaker 14: So I'm used to being there and supporting others in
Speaker 14: times like this, and I think it's helped me grow.
Speaker 3: In a way.
Speaker 2: We shouldn't have come to the point where we didn't
Speaker 2: know what happened. We should have just known, like yes
Speaker 2: on the day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Next episode, we hear more from Amy's best friends.
Speaker 16: And all I saw was David with his hands around
Speaker 16: Amy's neck, bent over like her back pushed up against
Speaker 16: the table with his hands around her neck, and I
Speaker 16: remember saying him, that's not okay, Like you can't do that,
Speaker 16: Like she's nine months prey, what is.
Speaker 1: Wrong with you? And the photo of Amy which went missing.
Speaker 5: That is it? See I got told that they didn't find.
Speaker 1: This suddenly turns up again.
Speaker 16: See I tried so hard to make sure that I
Speaker 16: could get this available to ant to back you know
Speaker 16: the stories of how he treated her.
Speaker 8: So dea.
Speaker 1: Me say, if you knew Amy and have information, any
Speaker 1: information about her death, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Just email us at The Truth about Amy at seven
Speaker 1: dot com dot au. That's s e v E N
Speaker 1: The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au,
Speaker 1: or visit our website sevenews dot com dot au forward
Speaker 1: slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us
Speaker 1: an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy
Speaker 1: dot com. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can
Speaker 1: follow us to see photos and updates relevant to the case,
Speaker 1: but for legal reasons, unfortunately you won't be able to
Speaker 1: make any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
Speaker 1: because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
Speaker 1: and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blandford,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
Speaker 1: is a Seven News production.