1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: This is gem Nation with Jones and land Well. The 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: hackers of Medicare threatened that they would release the data 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: of millions of Australians if their demands weren't met. At 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: two am this morning, the hackers posted some details, including 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: phone numbers and Medicare numbers, to a dark web forum. 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: Well what does this mean not just for Medicare customers 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: but for everyday Australians. How worried should we be? How 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: can we protect ourselves? Australia's leading tech expert, Trevor long 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Joys is now to explore it or with us. Hello Trevor, 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: how are you morning? 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 2: Matter? I'm very well, So what does this mean? 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Tell us what's happening? If you wake up this morning 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: and you're with Medicare and you hear that at two 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: AMS some of the data was released. 15 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is It will concern people. I'm a medibank 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: customer and you know it worries me that my health 17 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 2: information might be released to the public. But I look 18 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 2: at mine and go I'm not too stressed because it's 19 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: not that bad. But I've looked this morning, Amanda and 20 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 2: jonesiet some of the data this hacker has released, and 21 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: while it's only a couple hundred people. It is. It's 22 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: personal information like you name, it, address, and phone number, 23 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: but it's also where you've been treated and for what 24 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: you've been treated, so for example, it might be a hospital. 25 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: And then it has diagnosis codes, so it's not written 26 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: that you have diabetes or a mental health problem. But 27 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: those codes are common in the medical insurance industry, and 28 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: I've simply googled a few of the codes to work 29 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: out what they are. So for people out there who 30 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 2: are medibank customers, and there's five hundred thousand of them 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: who are most affected, there the hacker has their medical information. 32 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: The other nine point two million, they have a lot 33 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: of information about you, but not the medical stuff. So 34 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: it's a worrying thing because we worry about the things 35 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: that we might not have told people. It didn't need 36 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: to tell people like our employer or our mates about 37 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: our medical conditions that may now become public. 38 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: The manibank hack happened, and then pretty much the next 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 3: day or two days later, I got my bank contacted me. 40 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: They had to cancel my debit card because it had 41 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: been hacked, to the tune of three out of ninety 42 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: dollars by Apple California. Would that be a result of 43 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: that because I'm with Medibank and they do have my 44 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: banking details, can they get into my bank account? 45 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 2: No, No financial credit card details were obtained in either 46 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: the Optics or the Medibank hacks that we're aware of, 47 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: and both companies have said that pretty clearly, so they 48 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 2: would know. Unfortunately, right now we've got that situation where 49 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: every scam or every problem we have with cybersecurity appears 50 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: to be linked to these when they're probably not. But 51 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: it's raised awareness for us all around the kind of 52 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: things that can happen, because actually the biggest risk right 53 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: now isn't in this case identity fraud or anything like that, 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: it's just scams. For example, that the people who are 55 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: in this list that have been published now, they're likely 56 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: to get emails that are demanding a ransom. Hey pay 57 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: me a thousand dollars or I will release your information 58 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: to your employer, and they will scare those people, and 59 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: as it should, but there's nothing you can do to 60 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: prevent it being published, shared, or used by other cyber 61 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: hackers and criminals to scam you, and certainly don't pay it. 62 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: No, is that the advice don't pay it. 63 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: Do not pay it, because I've tested this with an 64 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: Instagram hacker. My a friend of my son's lost his 65 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: Instagram account to a hacker, and so I paid the 66 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: fifty dollars bitcoin and then he asked for another twenty. 67 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: I paid that twenty, asked for another thirty, and I 68 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: just realized that's where it's going. And then how they work. 69 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 2: Once they know you're on the hook, they keep reeling 70 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: new in and reeling you in. So by acknowledging even 71 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: that you exist, by replying, you are putting yourself further 72 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: onto the hook. So as hard as it is, you 73 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: have to ignore it, you have to delete it, and 74 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: you have to confront the fact that the information may 75 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: be out there. But one of the things I've said 76 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: a lot in the last week is this is really 77 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: up to us as Australians and the media as to 78 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: how valuable this data is. Because if we don't give 79 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: it any credibility or credence in terms of you know, 80 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: treating our friends or family differently because we find out 81 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: about a diagnosis they had, then the data is valueless. 82 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: And I think that's the best thing we can do 83 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: is is put our arms around each other and go, 84 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: I don't care what your diagnosis has been is or whatever, 85 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: and certainly we will never publish or share this information online. 86 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: Right Medibank has stated publicly that it's not going to 87 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: pay the ransom. Is this the right decision because more 88 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: and more companies are going to be in this position. 89 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: It's going to feel like the wrong decision today because 90 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 2: the hacker has released all the communication between themselves and medibank, 91 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: and it's a wild ride. It's like reading a novel 92 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: the way the communication went back and forward, and it 93 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: ended with Medibank saying, after considering all options, we've made 94 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: a decision that we cannot pay your demand and confirm 95 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: that it's also Australian government policy not to and they say, 96 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: we understand the impact this may have, essentially acknowledging that 97 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: we know you're going to release it, but we're not 98 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 2: going to pay the ransom. And it is the right 99 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: thing to do because by paying the ransom, they're simply 100 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: telling every cyber criminal in the world that Australia is 101 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: a place where ransoms are paid. 102 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't have that, can't have that. 103 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: But awful for all this information. 104 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: You know, I care. 105 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 3: If people know about my ailments, I'll tell you about 106 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: them right now. 107 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, that you're in a position where that's okay. For 108 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people, that's not right. So we take 109 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: the sting out of the tail by embracing our friends 110 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: and saying we don't care. Is that right, Trevor, that's right. 111 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: The best thing we can do is to ignore what 112 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: you're reading and hear about individual cases. And if one 113 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: of your friends seems to be affected by this, yeah, 114 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: throw your arm around them and tell them that we're 115 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: all all in this together and there's no impact on 116 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: any person's working or friend relationship around a little bit 117 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: of health information. 118 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: Well, let's hope employers feel this respect. 119 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: What's a whole employer that you never know? 120 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: You never know? 121 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 3: Well, Trevor, thank you for providing clarity. Head to E 122 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: F t M dot com for all Trevor Long's take advice, Trevor, 123 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jeers, guys, thank you. 124 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: Trevor.