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Speaker 1: Australia's most successful Olympian ever is on the podcast today Kylie.

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Speaker 1: Why well, because there is a sweet spot between encouraging

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Speaker 1: our kids towards excellence and pressuring them to perform. Today,

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Speaker 1: on the pod, we're going to show you exactly where

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Speaker 1: that line is and how to stay on the right

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Speaker 1: side of it with that olympian's help. Plus, when your

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Speaker 1: child is feeling anxious about performing, whether it's on the

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Speaker 1: sporting field, or in an exam or on stage, We're

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Speaker 1: going to share a powerful reframe that can turn that

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Speaker 1: nervous energy into their secret weapon. Welcome to the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Podcast, Real parenting solutions every day on Australia's most

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Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, where

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Speaker 1: the parents of six daughters. I've got a PhD in

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Speaker 1: psychology to help you along. I recently spoke with Australia's

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Speaker 1: most decorated Olympian, Emma mcken. What a swim by Australias

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Speaker 1: Go mar came with a blustering final leg with an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary fourteen Olympic medals, including six golds. Emma recently announced

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Speaker 1: her retirement after competing in three Olympic Games, Rio, Tokyo

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Speaker 1: and Paris, and Kylie, she missed London in twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: by one tenth of a second.

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Speaker 2: That's intense.

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Speaker 1: She stoppinn hated the poll for over a decade, and

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Speaker 1: today I'm a Happy Family's podcast, she's sharing insights into

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Speaker 1: how her parents helped her to achieve at the highest

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Speaker 1: level while keeping her love for the sport alive. Yep,

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Speaker 1: she's one of those athletes who still does the athletic

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Speaker 1: thing even though she's retired. She still swims on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: By the way, we're going to replay my full conversation

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Speaker 1: with Emma so you can hear everything she said. But

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Speaker 1: today we're focusing on the key points that every parent

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Speaker 1: needs to know about helping their kids to achieve their

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Speaker 1: potential without the pressure that can push them away from

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Speaker 1: what they love. Kylie. Emma's insights about the way that

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Speaker 1: her own pairents approached her sport a just fascinating, especially

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Speaker 1: given that her father, Ron was a Commonwealth swimmer. He

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Speaker 1: was an accomplished swimmer, one medals at the Comwealth Games,

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Speaker 1: and he was also her coach. So many parents struggle

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Speaker 1: with knowing how much to push and when to pull

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Speaker 1: back with their kids, especially when it comes to sport.

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Speaker 1: Here's what she said to me when I asked her,

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Speaker 1: how did your parents get this balance?

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Speaker 3: Right? I think it was definitely the balance. It was

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Speaker 3: like not pushing me to do a certain thing, and

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Speaker 3: not pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything

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Speaker 3: like that. It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that

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Speaker 3: young age, because I think they knew that if there's

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Speaker 3: something that I love and that I enjoy and it's

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Speaker 3: coming from me, then that means the longer that I'll

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Speaker 3: be doing it for and for them, Like they wanted

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Speaker 3: me to learn how to swim from a young age,

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Speaker 3: and then it was all kind of directed by me

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Speaker 3: and they encouraged that. But it's that fine balance. And

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Speaker 3: then also having the balance then allowed me to be

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Speaker 3: self determined and had the self want to set goals

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Speaker 3: and move ahead and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Kylie, there's some great wisdom here. What stood out to you.

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Speaker 2: It got me thinking about our kids and the things

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Speaker 2: that they've achieved. We've obviously got no Olympians in our home, no,

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Speaker 2: but we have children who have great loves.

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Speaker 1: To my great disappointment, we haven't had an Olympian yet

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Speaker 1: out of six kids. Can you believe it?

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Speaker 2: Well, funnily enough, our kids actually swam in the mckeirn's pool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we knew that. Well, we didn't know Emma, but

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Speaker 1: we certainly knew her parents because we were one of

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Speaker 1: their best customers. I don't know how many kids we

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Speaker 1: had in that poll on any one time, but it

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Speaker 1: was expensive.

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Speaker 2: But I was thinking about Annie, our seventeen year old.

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Speaker 2: She absolutely showed an interest and desired to play the

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Speaker 2: piano from a very young age, so from about three

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Speaker 2: I decided that it might be a good idea to

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Speaker 2: actually get us started. We found a teacher who taught

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Speaker 2: the Suzuki method, which meant that she didn't need to

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Speaker 2: know how to read me music. She could just learn

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Speaker 2: by ear. And she loved it. But after a few

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Speaker 2: months of being there, I just was really concerned about

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Speaker 2: how formalized her teacher was in her teaching methods and

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Speaker 2: her desire that my three year old was going to

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Speaker 2: practice her piano every day for at least twenty to

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes.

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Speaker 1: I remember it was intense.

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Speaker 2: It was very intense, and each week we would go

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Speaker 2: and I would feel like I was being sent to

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Speaker 2: the principal's office because she'd give me a serve because

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Speaker 2: she could tell that Annie had not sat at the

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Speaker 2: piano enough during the week.

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Speaker 1: So we started cracking the whip and we said, you

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Speaker 1: are going to be a carniie hoo pianist. We did not, No,

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Speaker 1: we did not.

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Speaker 2: I pulled to the plug and she didn't play. But

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Speaker 2: by the time she was about she was probably about

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Speaker 2: six when she started asking again. But it wasn't until

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Speaker 2: she was nearly eight that we kind of looked at

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Speaker 2: it and decided that we would allow her to go

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Speaker 2: back to lessons.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worth the spend. Let's give it another go.

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Speaker 2: We found another teacher and we and we started the

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Speaker 2: process again. And at no point have we ever told

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Speaker 2: Annie that she has to which don't tell her to

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Speaker 2: practice for a certain amount of time. So some days

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Speaker 2: she doesn't touch the piano at all.

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Speaker 1: Some weeks she doesn't touch the piano at all.

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Speaker 2: But her love for it has continued to grow to

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Speaker 2: the point now that after many years of lessons, she

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Speaker 2: came to us and she said, look, I actually don't

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Speaker 2: think I need a teacher anymore. I know what I

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Speaker 2: need to do. It's just about practicing. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be a concert pianist, but I do want to continue,

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Speaker 2: you know, loving to play. Now we have the joy

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Speaker 2: of listening to a daughter who can play at a

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Speaker 2: grade six level and accompany her sister who loves a

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Speaker 2: musical theater no end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got the Wicked sound Well it's not the

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Speaker 1: looking soundtrack, it's live. She's playing it on the piano

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Speaker 1: and the kids walk around the house and sing, defying

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Speaker 1: gravity and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it's delightful. Is she playing at Carnegie Hall? No,

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Speaker 2: But in our laundroom she gets.

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Speaker 1: She's a rock star.

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Speaker 2: A rock star, Yeah, and it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I did some quick maths, by the way, and a

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Speaker 1: little bit of googling while you were sharing that story.

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Speaker 1: The Australian Olympic team usually has between four and five

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Speaker 1: hundred athletes per Olympic Games. With Australia's population about twenty

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Speaker 1: six million, this means that roughly points zero zero two

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Speaker 1: percent of Australians represent their country at each Olympics. It's

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Speaker 1: even lower for the Winter Olympics, obviously with Australia, which

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Speaker 1: helps to explain why with six daughters we still don't

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Speaker 1: have Olympian.

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Speaker 2: It was really never an optionalise.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so with our kids.

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Speaker 2: No, No, it's funny when it comes to the pool

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Speaker 2: or any sporting field. Our kids don't have a competitive

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Speaker 2: bone in their bodies. But put them in front of

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Speaker 2: each other at the table to play, you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, but I digress.

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Speaker 2: What was your biggest take out of Emma's words?

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Speaker 1: So the words she said and I quote allowing me

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Speaker 1: to be self determined. So when I run my workshops,

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Speaker 1: when I write my books, when we do this podcast,

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Speaker 1: I talk a lot about this thing called the three

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Speaker 1: ease of effective discipline. That is that we need to explore, explain,

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Speaker 1: and empower, And whether we're talking about discipline in the pool,

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Speaker 1: or discipline with a musical instrument or discipline with study,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter what it is. This idea of

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Speaker 1: the three ease of effective discipline isn't so much about

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Speaker 1: getting the kids to be nice to their siblings, although

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Speaker 1: the strategy works there. The keyword is discipline, and discipline

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Speaker 1: is about, well, we use the word discipline to describe

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Speaker 1: somebody who's good at their quote unquote discipline. So Emma

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Speaker 1: has chosen this discipline. She's done it freely, in the

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Speaker 1: same way that you described our daughter choosing the piano freely.

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Speaker 1: When our kids step in and pursue a hobby or

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Speaker 1: a sport or something that matters to them in a

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Speaker 1: self determined way they do it. It's literally us saying

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Speaker 1: I'm not giving you carte blanche. It's not total freedom,

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Speaker 1: it's not full independence. Rather saying to my child, I

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Speaker 1: want to help you to make wise decisions. What decisions

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Speaker 1: are you thinking about making? Now, let's unpack that. Does

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Speaker 1: that work? Does it not work? What's good about it?

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Speaker 1: What's not good about it? How can we support you

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Speaker 1: and making the decisions that are going to be best

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Speaker 1: for your life? And what I'm really hearing in Emma's conversation,

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Speaker 1: especially in the broader conversation that we'll play in full

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Speaker 1: on Saturday, is parents who said, you love swimming. We

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Speaker 1: want to support you with it if that's what you

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Speaker 1: want to keep doing. But Emma, it is up to you,

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Speaker 1: and we can give you all the support you need

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Speaker 1: if that's what you want to do. That's what she did,

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Speaker 1: and I just I love the way she describes it.

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Speaker 1: I love those words allowing me to be self determined.

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Speaker 1: I guess the other thing that I would say is

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Speaker 1: when I think about how we get this balance right,

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Speaker 1: how we can be encouraging but not pushed too hard,

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Speaker 1: is we've got to create some distance here and recognize

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Speaker 1: it's not my life, this is their life. And if

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Speaker 1: we've got a daughter who doesn't want to be a

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Speaker 1: rock star or a concert pianist but really loves to

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Speaker 1: be able to sit down at the piano and play

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Speaker 1: music and and just love music, that's the choice that

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Speaker 1: she's made. And it's true that maybe one day, not

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Speaker 1: that I have this aspiration for her, but if I did,

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Speaker 1: it's true that maybe one day she and I will

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Speaker 1: look back and regret that she never made it to

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Speaker 1: fulfill her potential quote unquote. But that's okay.

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Speaker 2: It's her life, but her life's not over either, And

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Speaker 2: we're making a decision based on the fact that it

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Speaker 2: can never happen like.

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Speaker 1: A sixteen or a seventeen year old. Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: that's it. And I'll also add this, there are loads

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Speaker 1: and loads and loads and loads of fully functional, wonderful

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Speaker 1: people who quit music or who quit sport and have

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Speaker 1: still gone on to live good lives. And even achieve

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Speaker 1: and accomplish in other areas in their lives. So I

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Speaker 1: just think we pushed too hard and put too much

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Speaker 1: pressure on our kids in too many cases. And Emma's

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Speaker 1: example is a wonderful, a wonderful illustration of how we

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Speaker 1: can get that balance right.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the most important things to remember

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Speaker 2: is it's not our life, it's actually our kids. And

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Speaker 2: I felt as a three year old and he's piano teacher,

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Speaker 2: forgot that she decided that it was her life and

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Speaker 2: this was how Annie was going to be.

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Speaker 1: I'm on a mission to make it's terrifight.

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Speaker 2: And I know from time to time it crushes you

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Speaker 2: as a parent. It crushes us when we see our

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Speaker 2: kids could actually be really good.

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Speaker 1: At something, especially when you've invested in it with them

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Speaker 1: and for them as well.

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Speaker 2: But they choose to let it go. But I think too,

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Speaker 2: it's important for us to remember that their life's not over.

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Speaker 2: Just because they decide at the age of seven that

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Speaker 2: they don't ever want to play the piano again doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that at some point they can't pick it up.

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Speaker 2: Are they going to be an Olympian or you know,

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Speaker 2: play at Carnegie Hall as a twenty five year old.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but doesn't matter. The important thing is

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Speaker 2: that they're doing things that bring them joy and light

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Speaker 2: them up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of very, very functional, wonderful

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Speaker 1: people in the world who have quit sport, or who

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Speaker 1: have quit music or quit that thing that the parents

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Speaker 1: will make them.

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Speaker 2: Do and still live amazing lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, after the break managing anxiety and nerves, how

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Speaker 1: do the lessons from our most successful Olympian in Australian

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Speaker 1: history help our kids when they're feeling worried? Okay, Kylie?

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Speaker 1: I asked Emma McKee, in Australia's most decorated Olympian ever,

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Speaker 1: about something that every parent has probably witnessed, even with

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Speaker 1: the most confident of kids pre competition nerves. I get

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Speaker 1: the sense that you would have been a nervous speaker,

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Speaker 1: a nervous singer, a nervous performer. Have I got that right?

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Speaker 2: I still am. What do you mean I was?

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Speaker 1: I've just just got the feeling anyway. I was asking

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Speaker 1: her about whether those nerves were different when she was

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Speaker 1: a kid versus being at the global stage, right the

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Speaker 1: Olympic Games, of the World Championships or anything, because because

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Speaker 1: whether it's sport, or whether it's music performances or school

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Speaker 1: presentations or whatever it is, our kids are going to

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Speaker 1: face these moments of anxiety. And I love the way

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Speaker 1: that she reframed anxiety for both parents and children.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely still got nervous while I was young,

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Speaker 3: and that's just because I cared about what I was

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Speaker 3: about to do and didn't know what I might be

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Speaker 3: about to do. And so the nerves that are actually

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Speaker 3: were same whether whether I was at a state level

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Speaker 3: meet or through to when I eventually was at in

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Speaker 3: the Olympic. So I think it's refraining it in your

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Speaker 3: head and seeing the nerves is a good thing. The

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Speaker 3: nerves are like little bouts of energy that you can

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Speaker 3: use in your race, and nerves are showing you that

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Speaker 3: you care. Nerves are showing you that you're doing something

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Speaker 3: brave and worthwhile, and I think it's reframing it in

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Speaker 3: more of a positive way.

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Speaker 1: Kylie's so sensible, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love what she said. Nerves are showing you

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Speaker 2: that you're doing something brave and worthwhile. A handful of

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Speaker 2: years ago, I took myself off to a health retreat

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Speaker 2: and as part of that, there was a challenge for

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Speaker 2: me to do something outside my comfort zone. You know

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Speaker 2: those telegraph poles.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're up and down most streets. I know

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Speaker 1: what a telegraph pole is.

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Speaker 2: Well, have you ever climbed one?

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Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like I've had a misspent youth,

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Speaker 1: but actually, yes, you guess I have.

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Speaker 2: And so when you see telegraph pole, it looks solid. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like it's solid yeah, and high and high. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: the idea was I had to climb to the top

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Speaker 2: of the telegraph pole. And on the top of the

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Speaker 2: telegraph pole was a platform just big enough for two

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Speaker 2: feet side by side.

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Speaker 1: I've climbed this one. They're really hard to climb onto, huh. Like,

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Speaker 1: when you get to the top, you've got to somehow

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Speaker 1: limby your body up onto the platform.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the whole momentum of you is actually going

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Speaker 2: over and almost you're going to fall off.

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Speaker 1: We should we should quickly highlight you were tended to like, yes,

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Speaker 1: But what.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know was looking at this ridiculously thick solid pole,

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Speaker 2: was that the further you went up it was no

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Speaker 2: longer solid. There was a lot more movement than I

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Speaker 2: ever expected.

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Speaker 1: At the top so it's solid but it's moving.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And part of the process was learning to breathe.

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Speaker 2: It was a really important part of the process, and

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Speaker 2: I didn't understand it until I was up there. As

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Speaker 2: we watched other people doing it, you could see if

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Speaker 2: they were anxious and their breath was going fast, then

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Speaker 2: the pole actually wobbled at a really fast rate. But

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Speaker 2: if they could get their breath under control, the pole

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Speaker 2: stopped moving.

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Speaker 1: So control the anxiety and control the movement of the pole, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and have more success.

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Speaker 2: So visually powerful. So I got up and I thought,

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Speaker 2: I've got this. I can do this. This is hard,

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Speaker 2: but I can do it. But I got to the

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Speaker 2: top where I had to take my feet off the

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Speaker 2: pole itself and put it onto the platform, and that's

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Speaker 2: where I started to fall apart. And for nearly ten minutes,

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Speaker 2: everybody sat at the bottom in absolute quiet while I

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Speaker 2: fought against the anxiety and fear. I was feeling right.

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Speaker 2: I finally did do it, and the sense of achievement

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Speaker 2: was insane. It was amazing. I felt so accomplished as

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Speaker 2: a result of doing it.

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Speaker 1: So the idea, as you climbed to the pole, that

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Speaker 1: up on it and then you jump off.

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Speaker 2: I've got to jump off it. That was big too,

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Speaker 2: But after that, everyone who went after me, they scaled

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Speaker 2: it forty seconds, maybe a couple of minutes. Like everybody

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Speaker 2: else got through it very quickly. I was definitely the longest.

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Speaker 2: But what I learned out of that experience was that

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Speaker 2: sometimes when our kids are in that tricky space, you

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Speaker 2: know she talked about nerves showing us that we're doing

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Speaker 2: something brave. When they're in that tricky space, we often

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Speaker 2: fill that space with unnecessary noise. We call it encouragement,

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Speaker 2: but what they actually need is our quiet patients. And

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Speaker 2: what I had at the bottom of that pole was

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Speaker 2: a coach who literally just every now and again would

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Speaker 2: just go just take a deep breath, Kylie, just take

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Speaker 2: a deep breath. There was no there was no at

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Speaker 2: any point acknowledgment that I couldn't do it, but there

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Speaker 2: was a There was the space and the quiet to

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Speaker 2: allow me to work through that emotion.

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Speaker 1: I love that you're touched by that. I love that

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Speaker 1: even as you reflect on that, just having that space,

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Speaker 1: the fact that people had respect for your anxiety and

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Speaker 1: they gave you the space to work through it. But

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Speaker 1: you also had that one person who was the voice

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Speaker 1: of reason, the voice of comfort and reassurance. I love

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Speaker 1: that story. Anxiety. It's normal, it's healthy, it's natural. It's

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Speaker 1: designed to help us. Doctor listener. Moore talks about how

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Speaker 1: we have a cognitive board of directors in our brain,

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Speaker 1: but we should not. We cannot let emotion, particularly anxiety,

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Speaker 1: chair the board. The entire interview is absolutely fascinating. Emma

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Speaker 1: mckehon was very generous in talking with me for about

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Speaker 1: thirty to forty minutes. We would love for you to

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Speaker 1: hear the whole thing, so we're dropping it India Feed

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Speaker 1: on Saturday morning so you can listen while you run errands,

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Speaker 1: or shop or have that walk. The walk that I

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Speaker 1: usually do on a Saturday morning is behind the lawnmark.

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Speaker 1: Hope you enjoy listening to the episode on Saturday morning.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by and rule On

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Speaker 1: from Bridge Media. If you like the podcast, can we

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Speaker 1: invite you to take twenty seconds out of your day?

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Speaker 1: It's literally that quick twenty seconds. Leave us a rating

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Speaker 1: and review. We like the five star ones the best

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Speaker 1: by the way they genuinely help people to find the

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Speaker 1: show and make their family happier. We are justin and

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Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. Resources and ideas to help your family thrive

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Speaker 1: are available at happy families dot com dot au