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Speaker 1: And as I said, we know that the Chief Minister,

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Speaker 1: Natasha files Will she fired some of you right up

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Speaker 1: yesterday when we interviewed her on the show and asked

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Speaker 1: about the recent results to the Northern Territory Police Association survey.

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Speaker 1: So the Chief Minister has ruled out any kind of

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Speaker 1: review into the police force and has confirmed that she

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Speaker 1: still has confidence in her Police Minister and also the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Commissioner, despite the recent results from the

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Speaker 1: association's survey. Now joining me on the show is the

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Speaker 1: Opposition leader Leah Fanocchiaro. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Leah, Good morning Katian to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, more than twelve hundred respondents, that's about three

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Speaker 1: quarters of its membership. The survey also found that ninety

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Speaker 1: seven percent of police did not feel supported by the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government. Leah, what do you think that this

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Speaker 1: survey says about the concerns within the police force.

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Speaker 3: It very clearly shows a crisis in our police force

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately that has been the case for a very

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Speaker 3: long time. We know from the results who received last

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Speaker 3: year's from a very survey of a similar number of police,

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Speaker 3: that there is a total lack of confidence, low morale,

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Speaker 3: that they don't feel the government supports them, and that

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Speaker 3: they don't feel there's enough police. And yet in response

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Speaker 3: to last year's survey, we've seen no tangible action from

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Speaker 3: this government to make any improvements. And of course the

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Speaker 3: survey results that came out last week just reinforce the

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Speaker 3: crisis that is there. When you have ninety seven percent

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Speaker 3: of our police believing there aren't enough police and that

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Speaker 3: the government doesn't support them, that presents an untenable position

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Speaker 3: for the Government of the day because Lauren, order underpins

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Speaker 3: a society, a community, and we need to be supporting

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Speaker 3: our police who go out and support us every day,

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Speaker 3: and this government has clearly turned their back.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Minister revealed on the show yesterday that there

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Speaker 1: are hundreds of officers on sick leave right now. She

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Speaker 1: wouldn't tell us the exact number. But what's your reaction

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's hugely alarming and of course unsurprising. Now last

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Speaker 3: year we knew in May the government received to report

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Speaker 3: into health and wellbeing of our police and they have

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Speaker 3: not made that public. We have tried five times in Parliament, Katie,

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Speaker 3: to have an inquiry examining this very issue which goes

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Speaker 3: to the core wellbeing of our force, and the government

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Speaker 3: is failing to be transparent with territories about what it's

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Speaker 3: doing to address this issue. Now, our police are being

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Speaker 3: asked to do more with less, They're being put in

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Speaker 3: dangerous situations, the violent nature of crime is increasing, the

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Speaker 3: level of crime is increasing, and yet they feel more

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Speaker 3: and more disempowered through the government's watering down of laws,

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Speaker 3: through the government's you know, lack of support and understanding

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Speaker 3: of this situation, or even the lack of the government's

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Speaker 3: will to try and address this issue. So it's a

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Speaker 3: terrible situation and for the government to just simply say, oh,

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Speaker 3: there's a few hundred police on sickly without addressing that

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Speaker 3: issue is truly shocking.

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Speaker 4: Leah.

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Speaker 1: They say the Northern Territory government and the Chiefiness to

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Speaker 1: set on the show yesterday that they are doing the

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Speaker 1: hard grinding work that is required to ensure that you know,

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Speaker 1: that police are able to do what they need to

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Speaker 1: do and conduct the work that they need to get underway.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, you came out really strong about this

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Speaker 1: on Friday saying that the Chief Minister needs to sack

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Speaker 1: the Police Minister. Why do you think that that needs

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Speaker 1: to happen if they are doing the hard grinding work

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Speaker 1: that they say they are.

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Speaker 3: Well, Natasha Farles is great at slogans, but not great

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Speaker 3: on delivery, and ultimately territories would judge her on her actions,

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Speaker 3: not her words. I mean her predecessor, Michael Gunner was

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Speaker 3: throwing kitchen sinks at things and now she's doing hard

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Speaker 3: grinding work. Well that's great, but the reality is you

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Speaker 3: have a failed government with a foiled police minister who

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Speaker 3: has not shown the commitment or done the hard yeahards

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Speaker 3: or whatever saying they've got around addressing this police crisis.

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Speaker 3: The crisis was there when Kate Warden became the police minister.

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Speaker 3: She inherited that crisis from Nicole Madison. She has failed

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Speaker 3: to be able to hold an inquiry, do the important

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Speaker 3: work that needs to be done so that we can

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Speaker 3: support our police, and ultimately that all happens under Natasha

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Speaker 3: Farles's leadership. So they urgently need to call an inquiry.

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Speaker 3: This work needs to be done. The last one was.

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Speaker 2: Eleven years ago.

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Speaker 3: And they also need to show a very comprehensive legislative

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Speaker 3: plan to Territorians and our police on how they're going

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Speaker 3: to start protecting people and supporting our police to do

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Speaker 3: their jobs rather than supporting the offender.

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Speaker 1: Now, just on the inquiry that you've called for as well,

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Speaker 1: calling for that immediate inquiry into our police force, is

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Speaker 1: that something that police are telling you that they want

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Speaker 1: right now?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and the Northern Territory Police Association equally have been

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Speaker 3: calling for this for a really long time. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: we've tried five times in Parliament to call an inquiry.

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Speaker 2: It's well overdue.

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Speaker 3: The last one was the O'Sullivan Review, which examines all

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Speaker 3: sorts of things around resourcing, how to best deploy your

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Speaker 3: police force, what supports are required.

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Speaker 2: It's very comprehensive and it's incredibly.

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Speaker 3: Disrespectful for Natasha Files to call that a talk fest,

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Speaker 3: especially coming from her, which seems to be all she does.

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Speaker 3: And this is not just some silly report that's going

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Speaker 3: to sit on a shelf. This is something that needs

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Speaker 3: to be forensically examined and then implemented because what will

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Speaker 3: be you know, if our police force all pack up

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Speaker 3: and go Katie, which eighty five percent have said they've

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Speaker 3: thought of leaving in the last six to twelve months,

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Speaker 3: what is left for us.

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Speaker 4: Well, we'll be bugget.

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Speaker 1: We'll be absolutely bugged if we end up with that

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Speaker 1: volume of our Northern Territory police wanting to leave. And

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is some serious work that

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Speaker 1: obviously needs to happen here when you've got the results

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Speaker 1: that we had seen into that Police Association survey. I

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Speaker 1: mean to play Devil's advocate though, Leah, are you just

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Speaker 1: trying to muck rag here to really then use that

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Speaker 1: report for your own political mileage?

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Speaker 3: Katie, This is beyond politics. This is literally the foundation

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Speaker 3: of our society being crumbled and eroded and left to

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Speaker 3: crumble and a roade I mean the government and isn't

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Speaker 3: even trying to pull the pieces back together. It's almost

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Speaker 3: like this is all part of their grand plan of

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Speaker 3: hard work and grind or whatever they say.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's beyond a joke. It's beyond politics. This

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Speaker 2: is urgent.

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Speaker 3: And at Cristi's point, we have eighty five percent of

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Speaker 3: our police looking to work to rule, which means doing

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Speaker 3: no overtime, not putting in any extra hours like they

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Speaker 3: normally would. Eighty five percent are looking to leave. We

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Speaker 3: have an eleven percent attrition rate, which often means we

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Speaker 3: have probationary constables, so brand new coppers partnered with brand

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Speaker 3: new coppers out on our streets tackling the most violent

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Speaker 3: and heinous of crimes.

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Speaker 2: That's a risk to them as well.

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Speaker 3: They're not having the opportunity to then be supported by

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Speaker 3: more senior police. It is debilitating on every level. And

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Speaker 3: for the government to stand by and watch this falling

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Speaker 3: apart before its very eyes, despite the cries and the

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Speaker 3: pleas from our police, is heartbreaking. And you know, as

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Speaker 3: a proud territory in Katie, I just I honestly don't

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Speaker 3: know what it's going to take for these this government

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Speaker 3: to do something.

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Speaker 1: Leah, you've obviously said that you think that the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Minister Kate Warden needs to go.

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Speaker 4: I don't you know.

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Speaker 1: It'll I guess it'll be interesting to see whether our

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Speaker 1: listeners agree or disagree with that, but we have certainly

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Speaker 1: had some listeners get in contact with us this morning.

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Speaker 4: Son, Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Would you please ask Leafanocchiaro why she's calling for the

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Speaker 1: sacking of Minister Warden but not the police commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Yet, Because ultimately leadership comes from the top, and Kate

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Speaker 3: Warden is the responsible minister, she should be dealing with

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Speaker 3: the disconnect between rank and file and the police executive.

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Speaker 3: We have, as part of our calls for an inquiry

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Speaker 3: been very clear that as part of that inquiry needs

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Speaker 3: to be a shoe cause of the police Commissioner and

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Speaker 3: his executive around what is going on in the force

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Speaker 3: and what they're doing to respond to these really shocking statistics.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately that leadership has to come from the Government

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Speaker 3: of the day. And if Kate Warden's not doing what

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Speaker 3: it takes to sort health and well being, mental health attrition,

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Speaker 3: just the lawlessness plaguing in the territory, then the buck

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Speaker 3: stops with her.

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Speaker 1: Leah, what laws would you, if you were the chief Minister,

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Speaker 1: would you be introducing to strengthen that support for our

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Speaker 1: police force. Because it is something that you've mentioned a

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Speaker 1: couple of times. I think that our listeners want to

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Speaker 1: know exactly what you're referring to so that they can

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Speaker 1: get a better idea of how you'd support the police.

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Speaker 3: Yep, I can give you a handful, which is just

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Speaker 3: some there's many. Basically, we want to strengthen mandatory sentencing

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Speaker 3: for assaults on police and any worker. So if you're

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Speaker 3: at work right now listening. We want to strengthen laws

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Speaker 3: to protect our police and protect you, and in fact,

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Speaker 3: we tried to do that last year and government voted

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Speaker 3: us down. We would lower the age of criminal responsibility

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Speaker 3: so that people under the age of twit between ten

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Speaker 3: and twelve can be held responsible for their crimes. We

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Speaker 3: would stop the revolving door of bail by making sure

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Speaker 3: that if you are a repeat offender, you do not

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Speaker 3: enjoy have having bail go in your favor. There's only

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Speaker 3: so many chances you get to destroy people's lives in

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Speaker 3: my u k D.

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Speaker 2: We would bring back mandatory sentencing.

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Speaker 3: Of course, last year the government abolished mandatory sentencing for

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Speaker 3: violent offenses. You know, this is in a long line

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Speaker 3: of other reform that needs to take place. But ultimately

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Speaker 3: we need to give back power to our police. You know,

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Speaker 3: we've got legislation at the moment where we want to

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Speaker 3: give police more power to deal with problem drunks. Our

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Speaker 3: police are very skilled people. They need discretion to be

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Speaker 3: able to deal with situations as they arise. And ultimately,

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Speaker 3: we as a community have a standard and that standard

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Speaker 3: needs to be met and set, and ultimately the lawlessness

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Speaker 3: is destroying our lives, our lifestyles, and people are leaving

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Speaker 3: because of it.

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Speaker 1: Lea, have you got evidence to support that these changes

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Speaker 1: would actually make a difference.

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Speaker 3: Well, what they do is make police feel like they're supported.

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Speaker 3: It gives them more tools in their toolbox. It sends

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Speaker 3: a very clear message of deterrence and a message from

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Speaker 3: the community saying this is the standard of behavior we

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Speaker 3: accept and this is the consequence if you breach those standards.

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Speaker 3: And ultimately it's about sending a very clear message to

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Speaker 3: offenders that you better think twice under a Finocchiaro led

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Speaker 3: to CLP government.

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Speaker 1: Well, I do want to ask so, I mean with

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Speaker 1: some of those with mandatory sentencing, for example, in some situations,

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Speaker 1: the jail is busting at the scene, so where are

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Speaker 1: they going to go?

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Speaker 2: Well, that is a great question, Katie.

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Speaker 3: And isn't it sad that we've got our prisons overflowing

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Speaker 3: and yet there are so many criminals who aren't being

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Speaker 3: held to account.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's how bad crime's gotten under labor.

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Speaker 3: We have forty percent higher crime rates now than we

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Speaker 3: had under the previous COLP government. And so when Natasha

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Speaker 3: Files talks about increasing the police budget by thirty percent,

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Speaker 3: that's not even matching the increase in crime over her

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Speaker 3: time in government. So you know, ultimately we know that

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Speaker 3: if you continue to break the law and destroy people's lives,

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Speaker 3: then you should end up in prison.

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Speaker 2: That's a very sad fact.

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Speaker 3: What we do with people in incarceration is an exciting

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Speaker 3: opportunity though, and that's why our policy platform around providing

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Speaker 3: people with education and support whilst in correctional facilities will

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Speaker 3: hopefully then drive down that repeat offending so that people

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Speaker 3: aren't ending back in prison over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Leah. Another topic that I do want to ask you about,

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Speaker 1: just very briefly, Tiger Brennan Overpass. It's been revealed to

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Speaker 1: the ABC reporting this morning that there's been quite a.

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Speaker 4: Major cost blowout.

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Speaker 1: Originally was set to cost sixty one point five million dollars,

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Speaker 1: is my understanding that's born out well last May to

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ten million is what they were reporting

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Speaker 1: last November that cost was at one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: seven point eight million. Then again my understanding is that

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Speaker 1: it's now estimated to cost one hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 1: to one hundred and sixty nine million dollars. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is your reaction to that blowout.

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Speaker 3: Well, one hundred million dollar blowout is not a small

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Speaker 3: figure Kadian, but it's unsurprising, I mean evil law. There

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Speaker 3: is the Infrastructure Minister and the Treasurer, and she famously

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Speaker 3: and repeatedly stands in Parliament and says sometimes projects go over,

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Speaker 3: sometimes they go under. I mean that is literally words

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Speaker 3: coming from her mouth. That is her attitude to spending

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Speaker 3: taxpayers dollars and it's unacceptable. I mean that overpass is key,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a fantastic and is a fantastic project.

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Speaker 3: But to what costs and what justification is government providing

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Speaker 3: for a one hundred million dollar blowout.

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Speaker 1: I know that we caught up last week with Dennis Stedman,

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Speaker 1: who is the bilocal advocate here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: and he had raised some concerns about those blowouts with

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Speaker 1: various projects. Now I don't want to verbal him because

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Speaker 1: I can't remember his exact words, but I know that

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Speaker 1: it isn't something that's you know, that's a one off.

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Speaker 1: There are blowouts, yes, you know, quite often with major projects,

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Speaker 1: and for a lot of reasons we all understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: there can be cost of material goes up that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. But do you think that we need to

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Speaker 1: be looking at having you know, a position within government

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Speaker 1: or an external and into peace position that is maybe

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Speaker 1: able to oversee some of these different projects, major projects.

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Speaker 1: May just spending of taxpayers dollars looking at projects to

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Speaker 1: ensure that we are not seeing money wasted if that

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Speaker 1: is happening, or money spent frivolously on some of these projects.

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Speaker 4: And those massive blowouts, well.

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Speaker 3: We do see significant blowouts under just about every project

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Speaker 3: this government delivers. And I think it shows again that

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Speaker 3: lack of leadership from the top. If you have a

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Speaker 3: treasurer and infrastructure minister who shrugs her shoulders and says,

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Speaker 3: sometimes projects go over, sometimes they go under, it's little

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Speaker 3: wonder then that they do blow over and in epic proportions. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: what we need is a government that spends taxpayers dollars responsibly.

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Speaker 3: Now everyone can understand sometimes as a project variation or

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Speaker 3: sometimes you know, you find as best us and that

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Speaker 3: requires more remedial cost, or you know, other things like that.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, at what point does the government have to

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Speaker 3: justify the blowout and the spend. And I think it

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Speaker 3: harks back to planning. You know what is the government

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Speaker 3: doing to be able to make sure that we've adequately

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Speaker 3: supported our departments to be doing the detailed planning that

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Speaker 3: is required of these projects so that we do have

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Speaker 3: a true understanding of the cost and can properly program

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Speaker 3: our infrastructure to meet the demand of the community and

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Speaker 3: also our budgetary constraints.

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Speaker 1: So could there be something some you know, some kind

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Speaker 1: of oversight or something done to ensure that we are

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Speaker 1: able to adequately manage some of those different different projects

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Speaker 1: but also those different contractors, to try to make sure

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Speaker 1: that this isn't happening.

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Speaker 3: Well, that is meant to be the Treasurer's job, Katie,

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Speaker 3: and the Infrastructure Minister's job, and clearly it's just another

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Speaker 3: arm of this government that is failing and letting.

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Speaker 2: The community down.

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Speaker 3: We do have an Order to General, so she does

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Speaker 3: a fantastic job and provides a report four times a

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Speaker 3: year around government spending and how that is going.

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Speaker 2: Whether there's a requirement for.

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Speaker 3: Additional oversight, you know, that's absolutely something that could be

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Speaker 3: looked at. But I think, you know, we try often

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Speaker 3: because of how terrible this government is to on new

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Speaker 3: bodies of oversight, when really, if this government just performed

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Speaker 3: at the level they promised territories to perform at we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have these issues.

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Speaker 2: It's a failure at the top.

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Speaker 3: And that's why we're moving our motion of no confidence

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Speaker 3: next month, because they can't even govern the basics anymore.

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Speaker 2: Katie, it's all fallen apart.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some listening, we'll be thinking, Lea, you're being

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Speaker 1: a bit unfair there. You know, of course blow out

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Speaker 1: all the time with different projects.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, but one hundred million dollars and of

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Speaker 3: course the track record isn't good. And off the back

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Speaker 3: of a government that's delivered a nine billion dollar debt.

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Speaker 3: When they came to government it was one point eight billion.

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Speaker 3: And look around you where you're sitting right now, look

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Speaker 3: around and try and think up even one billion dollars

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Speaker 3: worth of additional benefit to the territory under this government

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Speaker 3: for the nine billion dollars debt, our children will be

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Speaker 3: will be suffering under for many, many decades. It's not

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Speaker 3: acceptable and ultimately there needs to be greater transparency from

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Speaker 3: government around why that spend is blowing out.

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Speaker 1: Leah Finocchiaro, we are going to have to wrap up

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Speaker 1: before I do though. Last day of feb Fish, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the cops didn't catch me unless you got all these

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Speaker 1: steps lined up that you're not adding in.

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Speaker 2: We were gunning for you this year, Katie. I think

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Speaker 2: we're still number two on the ladder.

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Speaker 3: I haven't checked this morning, but yep, COLP Opposition Fighting

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Speaker 3: Fit Wears step in our hearts out trying to knock

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Speaker 3: off the mixed team. But you might have just got

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Speaker 3: overline again this Yukdi.

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Speaker 1: It was because we ended up with a bit of

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Speaker 1: an army of walkers. We've got like forty six members

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Speaker 1: of our team, so when you average that out, it's

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Speaker 1: not too much.

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Speaker 4: Very well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well next year, everyone register for CLP Opposition Team.

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Speaker 3: Let's take Katie out. Let's show them they better be

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Speaker 3: stepping a bit more.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning, much appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Take care everyone,