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Speaker 1: Well, we know the treatment of youth in detention centers

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Speaker 1: was thrust back into the spotlight again last night in

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Speaker 1: a report by Four Corners. It was heavily focused on

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Speaker 1: Western Australia, where youth were allegedly locked up in solitary

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Speaker 1: confinement for extended periods and were often well subjected to

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Speaker 1: hogtime according to that report. We also know though, that

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Speaker 1: don Dale featured in the report labeled the country's most

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Speaker 1: notorious prison. The ABC claims that there were four hundred

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Speaker 1: complaints about the facility relating to solitary confinement, racism and

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Speaker 1: excessive use of force. Now, we did put in a

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Speaker 1: request to speak to the Children's Commissioner as well as

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Speaker 1: the National Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: No luck, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: We do, however, have the Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden,

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Speaker 1: on the line. Good morning to your minister.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Kate.

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Speaker 1: You appeared on that report on Four Corners last night.

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Speaker 1: As we all know, there were two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: seven recommendations from the Royal Commission.

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Speaker 2: From your perspective, what has changed, yes, Katie, so.

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Speaker 3: I was the only State or Territory minister who would

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Speaker 3: agree to sit down with four corners, as you saw

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Speaker 3: last night, and what you saw was a very small

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Speaker 3: snippet of an hour long interview, so you know, that's

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Speaker 3: of guess that's the way those things often play out.

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Speaker 3: But of the two hundred and eighteen recommendations that we

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Speaker 3: had from the Royal Commission, we've addressed one hundred and

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Speaker 3: seventy four of them and there are forty four that

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Speaker 3: we do always acknowledge that them remain outstanding. But the

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Speaker 3: majority of those all relate to the opening of the

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Speaker 3: new Youth Justice facility up here and the upgrades in

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs. We need to do those take those actions

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Speaker 3: as well, you know, but that will come with the

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Speaker 3: new center. We just can't do that those without them.

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Speaker 3: So there's lots of things have changed. The biggest change

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Speaker 3: was taking those young people out of adult corrections. You

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Speaker 3: saw the old footage last night where they were handled

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Speaker 3: by correction officers back in two thousand and sixteen, and

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Speaker 3: that no longer happens. We've got trained youth Justice officers

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Speaker 3: working with them day in and day out. We've got

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Speaker 3: Danilla Dilba working in there with the young people are

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Speaker 3: going to school every day. We've got training for them.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a whole range of different things that

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Speaker 3: are unfortunately being done in an environment that's not ideal.

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Speaker 3: But things have changed greatly.

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Speaker 1: Minister March was said through that interview about recommendations, you know,

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Speaker 1: being implemented, but it was revealed that some have been

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Speaker 1: considered and closed rather than actually implemented. One of which

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Speaker 1: was the use of body worn cameras. Why has that

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Speaker 1: recommendation been ruled out and not actually used?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Katie. We're very upfront about that, and all

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Speaker 3: of our reports have gone up online so it's easy

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Speaker 3: to see and track where we were with those recommendations.

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Speaker 3: I should say up online, so if anybody ever wants

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Speaker 3: to log on there, on there. But what there is

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Speaker 3: a decision. So we got the recommendations and they're exactly that.

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Speaker 3: The word tells you what they are. They were recommendations.

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Speaker 3: Then government goes through a process of considering with any report,

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Speaker 3: not just this raw commission, about what's possible and what's not.

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Speaker 3: And with those that body worn cameras, there was it

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Speaker 3: wasn't supported in the way that it was put to

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Speaker 3: government because it was viewed as being quite counter to

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Speaker 3: building those relationships with staff and young people. Body worn

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Speaker 3: cameras are quite a significant piece of equipment. As you'd understand,

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Speaker 3: it would be sitting over you transform youth officers to

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Speaker 3: just look more probably more like police when they're sitting there.

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Speaker 3: And I go into there, I've been and there a

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Speaker 3: number of times, and you can see that relationship between

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Speaker 3: Youth Justice officers and the young people is very different

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Speaker 3: to that. You know, most of them have got trauma,

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Speaker 3: a trauma filled background, and we want to address that.

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Speaker 3: And it's not where there's so many cameras through that facility,

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Speaker 3: and you saw last night you saw footage that had

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Speaker 3: been taken in the facility with those cameras, So it's

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Speaker 3: not like that footage isn't able to be taken in

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Speaker 3: those spaces.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon, though, that it would actually be of

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Speaker 1: benefit to the correct well to the sorry not corrections,

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Speaker 1: to the Youth Justice or the youth officers, so that

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Speaker 1: you know that they're not in a situation where they

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Speaker 1: are accused of doing the wrong thing, and it would

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Speaker 1: protect them and protect the kids to some degree.

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Speaker 3: So I think you'll find, Katie, that the Youth of

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Speaker 3: Justice officers and a number of them, and I do

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Speaker 3: want to give them a shout out today because obviously

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Speaker 3: the way in which it was pitched last night in

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Speaker 3: four Corners, it's very very difficult, different to the job

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Speaker 3: that they do, a very difficult job every single day.

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Speaker 3: So I want to just say to them today, we

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Speaker 3: value the work that you do because they've been trained

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Speaker 3: in a very different way they are dealing with trauma.

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Speaker 3: They know that they're trained about handling very challenging young

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Speaker 3: people in a very tricky circumstance and looking for early

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Speaker 3: signs of incidents that might emerge and interventions. You know,

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Speaker 3: if those things do happen, they train very very differently,

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Speaker 3: and if you you know in there, they don't. That's

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Speaker 3: not the way they deal with young people day in

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Speaker 3: and day out. And I see that not just here

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Speaker 3: up in Dondale, but I see that in Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: as well in our system down there. So it's a

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Speaker 3: long way from where it was six years ago. Katie

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Speaker 3: and I think it's really important that every young person

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Speaker 3: that's in there gets treated individually, and that's the way

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Speaker 3: we take it. It's more of a case management approach

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Speaker 3: than it is you know, young people in schools and

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Speaker 3: those sorts of things, it would be inappropriate to have

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Speaker 3: those offices with body worn cameras on.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: There is vision though in that four Corners report last night,

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Speaker 1: as you've touched on of a child coming out of

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Speaker 1: their cell then being forced to the ground.

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Speaker 2: And you know and held with force. Is that lock?

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Speaker 2: At what point or when is that appropriate?

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Speaker 1: My understanding is that it was due to a self

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Speaker 1: harm or threat of self harm.

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Speaker 3: So I think that young person, those details come out, Katie,

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Speaker 3: that young person was around self harm. But in terms

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Speaker 3: of the behavior, you know, every use justice officer esteemed inappropriate,

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Speaker 3: then it gets dealt with accordingly. And it is my

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Speaker 3: understanding that there was an investigation into that matter and

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Speaker 3: the outcome of that was provided to the Children's Commissioner,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't receive any response back post that. So

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Speaker 3: she was aware of the you know, the response that

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Speaker 3: we had provided in that specific case, and that was

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Speaker 3: managed as an operational man matter, and I am very

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Speaker 3: satisfied that it was done appropriately.

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Speaker 1: Now there were four hundred complaints is what the ABC

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Speaker 1: had revealed last night about the facility in the last year,

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Speaker 1: relating to solitary confinement, racism and excessive force. How have

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Speaker 1: those complaints been dealt with and how many of those

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Speaker 1: allegations have actually been upheld.

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Speaker 3: So Katie, that's the matter for the Children's Commissioner. So

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Speaker 3: those complaints were received by her. We've got to remember

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Speaker 3: that this is a very very complicated and complex system,

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Speaker 3: and she would it's her role to investigate those complaints

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Speaker 3: and follow them up. So that's a matter for you

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Speaker 3: to ask her. But we respond and we have a

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Speaker 3: working relationship with the Children's Commissioner as defined by the Act.

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Speaker 3: If anything happens, we make sure that she's well and

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Speaker 3: truly aware of those incidences, and she has the capability,

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Speaker 3: and she demonstrates that she goes into the facility herself

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Speaker 3: quite regularly. She's one of our most regular visitors in there,

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Speaker 3: and that's what that relationship's about. So it's appropriate that

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Speaker 3: people if they do have a complaint, but very very

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Speaker 3: challenging young people and very very challenging the work that

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Speaker 3: we do with the families for those young people as well,

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Speaker 3: and those complaints are part of the normal system and

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Speaker 3: she would address though.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm trying to get to is, if

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Speaker 1: there is four hundred complaints made, presumably any of those

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Speaker 1: that are really serious or that need changes made immediately,

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Speaker 1: you as the minister would be aware of, or the

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Speaker 1: government would be aware of. How many of those have

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Speaker 1: you how many of those have gotten to the point

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Speaker 1: reached the point where you as the minister have been

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Speaker 1: made aware of them and there's needed to be immediate action.

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Speaker 3: Over my time, Katie, I think I've probably had directly

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Speaker 3: to me perhaps one that's come to my attention.

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Speaker 2: So of those four hundred complaints, only one, yes.

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Speaker 3: So the Children's Commissioner would work very closely with all

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Speaker 3: of us. She has all of our numbers, and she

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Speaker 3: knows that she can ring our offices. She works very

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Speaker 3: incredibly closely with the CEO Ken Davies on any of

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Speaker 3: these matters, and we invariably if something occurs in the center,

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Speaker 3: we would flag that with her directly. She would be

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Speaker 3: one of the very first phone calls that we get

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Speaker 3: and so that we make if anything would happen. But

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Speaker 3: in my time over the last couple of years, I

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Speaker 3: would have from memory on the spot, I would say

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Speaker 3: perhaps one that I've been aware of. All the rest

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Speaker 3: would be done transaction between the Children's Commissioner's Office and

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Speaker 3: the CEO. Of course, Katie, some of those would not

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Speaker 3: be upheld. You know, we live in a very complex

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Speaker 3: and work in a very complex environment where there may

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Speaker 3: be complaints that are not upheld. But that is a

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Speaker 3: question for the Children's Commissioner because she has access to

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Speaker 3: those details.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we have got a situation where families and

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Speaker 1: activists are calling for don Dale to close and feel

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Speaker 1: that the government is failing these youth. You then have

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Speaker 1: a community that is absolutely broken and fed up with

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Speaker 1: youth crime. I know the National Children's Commissioner was on

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Speaker 1: the ABC earlier this morning saying that kids are stealing

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Speaker 1: to get food. Meanwhile, last week there were eleven year

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Speaker 1: old kids allegedly stealing cars, ramming marked police cars and

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Speaker 1: putting the community in danger. How do you meet the

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Speaker 1: expectations of the community here and how do.

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Speaker 2: You do that?

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Speaker 3: Very good question, Katie, And it is a balancing act

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Speaker 3: because I believe very strongly that we need to make

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Speaker 3: sure that whilst young people are looked after and given

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Speaker 3: every opportunity to have you know, a good, a better

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Speaker 3: path in life, it's also very very important that we

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Speaker 3: have community safety, you know, at the front of our

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Speaker 3: minds and as a Minister. I've taken that approach ever

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Speaker 3: since for the over the last couple of years. So

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Speaker 3: it's you know, it is a very tricky balancing act

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Speaker 3: you as you've just outlined, keeping young people safe at

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Speaker 3: the same time and as you say, in some instances, Katie,

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Speaker 3: we do know that young people have stolen, have broken

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Speaker 3: into places for food. But in other instances they're doing

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Speaker 3: these things and acting them out for attention because that

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Speaker 3: you know, they don't get that real positive affirmation in

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Speaker 3: their life elsewhere. We know there's plenty of research around

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Speaker 3: young people and how they'll form together in groups, you know,

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Speaker 3: in order for that association to make themselves feel get

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Speaker 3: a sense of belonging. We know all of that. We've

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Speaker 3: we work off evidence in our area of work particularly,

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Speaker 3: and that's why we do take if they young people

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Speaker 3: aren't successful through diversion and do take those steps which

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Speaker 3: make the community unsafe. We make sure that if they

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Speaker 3: do end up in detention, that we continue to provide

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Speaker 3: them an alternate opportunity. And we do see young people

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Speaker 3: quite regularly coming out of use detention and going into jobs,

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Speaker 3: for example, going into the Back on Track program, working

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Speaker 3: with our providers in remote and we've got some really

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Speaker 3: great success stories on those young people. We just don't

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Speaker 3: shout from the rooftops about them all the time. Well,

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Speaker 3: and because we want to give them some privacy to

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Speaker 3: work their way through. Over sixty percent of young people

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Speaker 3: that go through diversion actually never reoffend, Katie. So there's

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Speaker 3: a huge system with a lot of young people. And

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Speaker 3: we had over five hundred young people go through diversion

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Speaker 3: just this year alone. So it's a tricky it's a treaty.

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Speaker 2: It's really tricky act.

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Speaker 1: It's so hard at the moment, and honestly, I honestly

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Speaker 1: the community is quite broken in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: when it comes to these issues that we've got with crime.

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Speaker 2: And I know that there's not an easy fix.

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Speaker 1: But I think that for a lot of people listening

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Speaker 1: this morning, they're going to be feeling pretty frustrated. You

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Speaker 1: know that we still have these issues obviously within don Dale.

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Speaker 1: We know that the construction of the new facility is

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Speaker 1: you know, it is happening.

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Speaker 3: Can I just interrupt you there? What was highlighted last

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Speaker 3: night is not the run of the mill at our

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Speaker 3: youth Justice center. I need to be very very clear

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Speaker 3: about that. I had an hour long interview with them.

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Speaker 3: They showed perhaps what two minutes of me speaking, They

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Speaker 3: were not going to highlight any of the great stuff

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Speaker 3: that was going that is going on. We have reformed

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Speaker 3: the system. It is not what it was in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: So I think in some ways what was running last

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Speaker 3: night was quite disingenuous. And I want you know, we

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Speaker 3: don't have this ongoing. We have to just work at

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Speaker 3: many levels. We have to work at the early intervention level.

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Speaker 3: We have to work on young people when they start,

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Speaker 3: you know, escalating, and then if they do escalate, we

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Speaker 3: need to make sure the community is safe. That's our job.

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Speaker 3: We do it day in and day out. We are

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Speaker 3: closing don Dale. We've got a brand new facility here,

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Speaker 3: We've got a thirty five million dollar upgrade in our springs.

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Speaker 3: It's just complicated, Katie, and we are We're not taking

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Speaker 3: our foot off the pedal. You know.

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Speaker 1: They still minister and to the victims that have suffered

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Speaker 1: as a result and continue to suffer as a result

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Speaker 1: of youth crime, what do you say to them this morning?

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Speaker 1: Because I know that a lot of them are going

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Speaker 1: to be listening and they're feeling broken. They are so

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Speaker 1: over it and they just want some change.

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Speaker 3: So Katie, you know, my heart absolutely goes out to

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Speaker 3: any individual, family or business that had has been this.

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Speaker 3: You know, has been a victim of crime. I don't

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Speaker 3: know about you, but I've been a victim of crime

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Speaker 3: myself some years ago under a previous government. This is

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Speaker 3: not this is not a new thing, but we are

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Speaker 3: working at every level. We're working with an increasing number

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Speaker 3: of families. We are working in a context where we've

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Speaker 3: got a number of young people that were born under

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Speaker 3: the baby Bonus era. This is all a whole range

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Speaker 3: of culmination of things that are going on, but we

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Speaker 3: are working with hundreds of families and kids, and we

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Speaker 3: continue to strive to do better every single day.

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Speaker 1: Minister, we are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for coming on the.

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Speaker 3: Show anytime, Katie, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you