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Speaker 1: Mister Wicks, it's Johnson. You know you're in for a

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Speaker 1: wild ride when you have white Sassie Scott on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: He's a ball of energy. He's also very funny.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I like most about him? There's

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Speaker 1: people we see online and then you meet them in

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Speaker 1: person and you think, oh, you're really different to how

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Speaker 1: you were online.

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Speaker 3: He is.

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Speaker 1: What you see on social media is exactly what he's

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Speaker 1: like in person.

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Speaker 2: He's loud, hilarious, but he's also very empathetic man.

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Speaker 1: Isn't he. Yes, yeah, he's got a hard out of shell,

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Speaker 1: but once you break that down, he's all gooey inside.

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Speaker 3: Well said.

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Speaker 1: You may have seen him on social media with his

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Speaker 1: brother Luke. They often go very viral, a bit trump asque,

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Speaker 1: annoy the ship out of each other, to put it simply.

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Speaker 2: But we're not here to talk about comical sibling rivalry,

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Speaker 2: are we, Matt.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: Scott has been on a six year journey to become

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Speaker 2: a father with his husband Mark. This has quite literally

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Speaker 2: taken them on a roller coaster of emotion.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Scott, Mark is. They decided to take the surrogacy route,

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Speaker 1: which meant a great deal of time and money in

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Speaker 1: pursuit of one goal to become parents.

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Speaker 2: Thankfully they got their wish, but it was by no

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Speaker 2: means easy.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Welcome back to three doting dads.

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Speaker 1: I am Maddie Jay, I'm Ash and I'm Sazzy Scott.

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Speaker 1: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is

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Speaker 1: the good, it is the bad and the relatable. And

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Speaker 1: if you come for advice.

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Speaker 3: Yes you remember, we don't do it. We don't do it.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what?

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Speaker 1: I got distracted by the house here where Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: not in our normal recording studio and the acoustics are great.

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Speaker 1: We're in the snow in East Genderbne and the house

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Speaker 1: is creaking.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea where we are. I have to

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Speaker 3: look at a map before Google Maps. There's no shame

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Speaker 3: in the world. I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: How did you get from Canberra to here?

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Speaker 3: God? Driven? Hell, you got driven last night? You did

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Speaker 3: the first hour.

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Speaker 1: I was like I needed a little story and I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, cool, And then isn't it weird? Were

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Speaker 1: like I was like, shut the fuck up.

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Speaker 3: I talked to pass the time.

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Speaker 4: I just need to I just need to continue to

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Speaker 4: talk all the time.

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Speaker 3: Or I get bored or destructive? What would you prefer?

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you're right. So this is a fun little situation

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Speaker 1: where we are all on a little trip away thanks

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Speaker 1: to Red Bull. We're at Perisher East Gindy.

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Speaker 3: At the moment it is about to say thread both.

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Speaker 1: Snow, it's all the same. It's all the same.

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Speaker 3: What's that? Thank you?

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you? And we actually we've been trying

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Speaker 1: to get you for a little while. Your motherfucker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah again, you have no choice.

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Speaker 4: As soon as Luke was like, hey, why don't you

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Speaker 4: try to go more like, yeah, damning do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to watch my clock because we have we

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Speaker 1: have it forty minutes. We have a dinner booking. It's

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Speaker 1: for Italian. The last thing I want to do is

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Speaker 1: hold you back from Italian?

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Speaker 3: What are you at Italian? What's your What I'm really into?

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Speaker 1: At the moment, people are like when the are they

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 3: Kids?

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Speaker 1: Later?

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Speaker 3: Spaghetti and berry? Oh? What is that?

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked. It's like it's bougie. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm a man of the people. Anyway.

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Speaker 3: It's a lobster.

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Speaker 1: It's like a seafood lobs yess, like a seafood prawn.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I'm spaghetti bolin AI's with vanilla ice cream

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Speaker 5: afterwards all the time, no matter where I am in

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Speaker 5: the world.

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Speaker 1: What do you what do you mean? Are you twelve?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: That's not what my kids.

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Speaker 3: He likes the sweet tree getting away from like family.

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Speaker 3: You guys, WO know this.

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Speaker 5: It's like I used to when I traveled for work,

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Speaker 5: even now for work, and people are like, come out

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Speaker 5: after the gig or whatever. I'm like, I've got something

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Speaker 5: really important get to I go back to the hotel room.

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Speaker 5: I just sit in the bed spaghetti boll and as

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Speaker 5: with vanilla ice cream.

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Speaker 3: How long have you been sober for now? I think

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Speaker 3: I'm five years in Teguary. I think last time I

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Speaker 3: asked you that was two years ago. So three. Yeah, wow,

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Speaker 3: very much. We usually start this off.

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Speaker 4: We're finding a little bit about you as a child

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Speaker 4: and god, just a quick question.

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Speaker 1: My only picture of Scott is when you had those

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Speaker 1: blonde tips at the front. I don't know how old

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Speaker 1: you were iconic nineteen then.

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Speaker 3: Nah, I was in no, I was in high school.

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Speaker 5: I was hanging around a lot of dodgy ass guys,

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Speaker 5: really really funny area.

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Speaker 3: This question is going to be perfect. Then what's the

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Speaker 3: most trouble you remember getting in as a child. Listen,

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Speaker 3: there's lots anything.

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Speaker 1: Spring to mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, stealing cars? Nice? Love that, Yes, don't condone it anymore.

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Speaker 3: Just one time stealing.

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Speaker 5: One funny time was when I stole them and Dad's

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Speaker 5: car and then it was a manual and I had

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Speaker 5: my mates in the back and we had to jump

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Speaker 5: start it because the steering wheel locked. I know how

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Speaker 5: to unlock it, and it got caught out in the

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Speaker 5: middle of the road. So anyway, we had to push

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Speaker 5: it all the way back down the road. Cops came

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Speaker 5: and got us out of the car. I talked this

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Speaker 5: absolute like smack and got us out of it.

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Speaker 3: I bet you did.

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Speaker 5: I was able to hustle and lie to these cops

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Speaker 5: that my dad actually parked the car.

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Speaker 3: The lights were on out the front, so I tried

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Speaker 3: to move.

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Speaker 5: The car for him, and then the steering wheel locked,

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Speaker 5: so I've gone to get the keys. Anyway, I just

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Speaker 5: talked my way through it my mum and daddy. I

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Speaker 5: was lying out my ass when the front bought it, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: they bought it.

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Speaker 3: They did you get in trouble at home? Though?

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I I pushed the boundaries, and mom and

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Speaker 5: dad said this really, like, Dad's this crazy thing. In

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Speaker 5: my eighteenth birthday. There's four boys in our family. But

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Speaker 5: at my birthday he said, Scott.

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Speaker 3: We like Trav.

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Speaker 5: He was so good at sport. Because skip Scott, I'll

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Speaker 5: come back to him birthday party and he goes to Patrick.

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Speaker 5: He was just always so like self driven and you

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Speaker 5: know he was a like a coordinator supervisor at Woolworth

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Speaker 5: at the age of fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Looks so studious. Scott. We just let him go and

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Speaker 3: we just had to trust that he would come back.

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Speaker 3: That's Murphy. I prefer that I look at you.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, I cocked her from mom and Dad. I

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Speaker 5: kind of I pushed back pretty hard.

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Speaker 3: I was a rebel. That's good.

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Speaker 1: I can't say I'm that surprised.

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Speaker 3: I'm not surprised I did that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to jump right ahead now to Marcus. Yes,

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Speaker 1: where did you guys meet Grinder?

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Speaker 3: Get out? No, we're a real true love Grinder.

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Speaker 1: I never reached out to me like, hey, you can

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Speaker 1: be up posted.

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Speaker 3: You know what they should if you're listening.

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Speaker 1: Grinder, be honest. Was it meant for a hookup or

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Speaker 1: was it something more so.

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Speaker 5: This is this to me is profound. My therapist said

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Speaker 5: to me, the next guy you hook up with on Grinder,

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Speaker 5: how about no sex to the fifth date?

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Speaker 6: And I was like, well, it doesn't make sense right,

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Speaker 6: and she was like, I feel like, you know, when

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Speaker 6: you're hooking up with somebody and you shagging him a

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Speaker 6: one night stand, you've kind of gone to Mecca, like

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Speaker 6: you've gotten everything.

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Speaker 3: From the person.

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Speaker 5: How do you come back from that to figure out

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Speaker 5: whether you like them as an actual person after you've

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Speaker 5: had all of them?

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Speaker 3: She said, So why don't you do it? I was like,

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Speaker 3: all right, cool, I'll give this sing a shot. Sure enough.

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Speaker 5: Marcus and I like we match right on Grinder and

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Speaker 5: he had this sassin ability to like match my energy.

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Speaker 5: Usually I choose someone up and spin out quick, smart

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Speaker 5: by our arms, go.

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Speaker 3: Around there and get this. But he had this ability

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Speaker 3: to just keep.

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Speaker 5: Going toe to toe with me, and I was like fascinate.

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Speaker 5: And then so I brought up this idea. I was like, hey,

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Speaker 5: do like listen, no sex to the fifth date, Like

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Speaker 5: are you in this? And he was like absolutely, So

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Speaker 5: He's like damn it, Well under date one.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not into this guy. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to shag him. I'm going to break the rules and

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Speaker 3: I'm going to say see later.

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Speaker 5: And I went back to his face after date one

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Speaker 5: and tried it on him and he was like, no,

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Speaker 5: I remember the rules.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, oh god, dab it.

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Speaker 5: I to stock out and do four more dates. By

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Speaker 5: the fifth date, I went he did something for me

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Speaker 5: and I went.

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Speaker 3: Wow, this is this is a guy I love. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's such a cool story. My Sistan met on Tinder

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Speaker 3: her her husband and I love that story.

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Speaker 1: And she sucked him on the first date.

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Speaker 3: It still worked out, though, but it has yet.

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Speaker 1: Modern dating has kind of like flipped You're it's very broken.

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Speaker 5: I think, Yeah, I don't know how you really get

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Speaker 5: to read a person anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right.

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Speaker 5: Like I'm big on energy and you can suss a

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Speaker 5: motherfucker out really quick.

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Speaker 3: Smart.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to do that just in in a world

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Speaker 5: now that is like, you know, receiving information in the

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Speaker 5: first three seconds. If you don't like what you see

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Speaker 5: or hear in three seconds, you're onto the next You're

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Speaker 5: giving someone a turn.

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Speaker 1: We really know.

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Speaker 3: Wife for fifteen years?

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Speaker 1: Really, where was it then? How long until you guys

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Speaker 1: talked about the potential to start a family.

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Speaker 5: I think we were listen.

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Speaker 3: It would have been a couple of years.

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Speaker 5: In so many gay men, it was only it was

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Speaker 5: a dream, but not a tangible dream.

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Speaker 3: It was a fantasy.

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Speaker 5: So you would you would lay there and you would

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Speaker 5: talk about, imagine if you could could have a family,

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Speaker 5: and you know, you have mates that have kids, or

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Speaker 5: you have many members. I have kids, but it never

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Speaker 5: ever ever felt like you would really be able to

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Speaker 5: have it. So you're only fantasized about one day being dad.

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Speaker 1: Did you know at that point when you were fantasizing,

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Speaker 1: did you know of any same sex couples who had

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Speaker 1: children as your benchmark?

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Speaker 5: There was one. There was one gay couple who I

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Speaker 5: had heard of and seen and I reached out to them.

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Speaker 5: This was years later down the track when Marcus and

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Speaker 5: I thought, let's just like try this urrogacy thing. And

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Speaker 5: you know, I said to them, hey, where should we start?

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Speaker 5: Have you got any advice? And they said to me,

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Speaker 5: every journey's different. Good luck, that's it, Like it's a secret.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It was more just Marcus and I were big believers,

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Speaker 5: and you can't be where you can't see and paying

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Speaker 5: it forward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was really disheartening to us.

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Speaker 5: And so on the flip side, we've promised ourselves through

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Speaker 5: our journey that we were going to make sure that

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Speaker 5: everyone anyone that asked where to start or a question

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Speaker 5: would always give them the time because of broke us

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Speaker 5: when they worked.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So what when you guys are trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out if the fantasy could be real? Like are you

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Speaker 1: just googling? What are your steps?

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Speaker 3: You heard about it happening in America?

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Speaker 5: Aren't like the Motherland like they were like, which is

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Speaker 5: really fascinating because America is conservative in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 5: but then they're like the founding fathers of surregacy, and

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Speaker 5: you know, you look at places like California, it's like

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Speaker 5: it was a no brainer. Like if you when you

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Speaker 5: spoke to people or saw people on television and it

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Speaker 5: was like the.

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Speaker 1: Bible belt and then you've got yea.

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Speaker 7: Fascinating It's always very fascinating, fascinating because our sons were

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Speaker 7: born in Texas to like halfway through the contract, they

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Speaker 7: brought in the no abortion law.

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Speaker 5: So it was like really really like lots of changes

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Speaker 5: we were going through after we fantasize about being dads

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Speaker 5: We then went, I, hang on, you could possibly look

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Speaker 5: at doing here in Australia. But if you do it,

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Speaker 5: it's ultary stick, which means there's no contract, there's no

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Speaker 5: nothing that binds it. The surrogate would always be looked

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Speaker 5: at as a biological mother.

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Speaker 4: Can they change their mind along the way? Is that

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Speaker 4: is that there's no binding so they can change their mind?

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Speaker 3: Correct? Fuck?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 5: Right, And that just didn't seem like something Marcus and

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Speaker 5: I wanted. And we and I say this from a

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Speaker 5: place of absolute privilege, we were able to go, that's

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Speaker 5: not for us. There's other routes, right, And one of

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Speaker 5: the routes we had heard of was that to go

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Speaker 5: dads could have twin children and one would be biologically

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Speaker 5: one dad's one would be biologically the others, but they

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Speaker 5: would share the same met donor Wow. And when I

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Speaker 5: heard it, I was like, this is black market Chinese shit.

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Speaker 4: Science is fucking crazy, to be honest, Like why I thought.

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Speaker 5: It was like under the table, like this is like

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Speaker 5: you don't say anything and we can make it happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And we go to this surrogacy conference and they're in

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Speaker 5: the States in Australia, but there were Americans and people

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Speaker 5: from Georgia that came out. Ukraine was really big at

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Speaker 5: that stage. It kind of moves around the world like where.

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Speaker 3: Like surrogacy is like movement less. But then there's some

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Speaker 3: that's shut down.

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Speaker 5: You hear of terrible stories like in Thailand Baby Gammy,

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Speaker 5: which was a very famous case where an Australian couple

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Speaker 5: did surrogacy over there. They had twins. One was born

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Speaker 5: with severe down syndrome. They only took one twin home

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Speaker 5: with them and left one behind. Oh my god, wow,

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Speaker 5: And the surrogate isn't that's not what they signed up

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Speaker 5: or they signed up to cook the buttons and then

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Speaker 5: give you the bread, right, but not keep it. And

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Speaker 5: so this poor you know woman then had to become

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Speaker 5: a mother when she didn't actually want to be to

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Speaker 5: a child that had to be you know, disabilities, oh man.

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Speaker 5: And so then countries and where it wasn't really regulated

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Speaker 5: would step in and go no more of this happening,

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Speaker 5: you know, Western people or like taking advantage.

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Speaker 3: Of some of our people.

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Speaker 1: And at this point, obviously you're kind of like working through,

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Speaker 1: you know, what was possible and how it's going to happen,

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Speaker 1: are you you and markus going we definitely want kids

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Speaker 1: or are you still kind of going? Weish just see

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Speaker 1: if it's possible.

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Speaker 5: First, we went to this conference and walked out and went, Okay,

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Speaker 5: we're going.

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Speaker 3: To be dads.

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Speaker 5: It was it was the first time ever we felt

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Speaker 5: seen and heard and there was tangible and it could happen.

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Speaker 5: We realized that it was an industry and a global one,

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Speaker 5: and that also we thought we were going to walk

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Speaker 5: in there and it was just going to be for

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Speaker 5: gay guys, right Rich gay guys were like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: We're going to become dads now. But one beautiful thing

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Speaker 5: we found during our journey was people that really want

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Speaker 5: to be parents that can't be or can't conceive naturally

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Speaker 5: doesn't discriminate.

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Speaker 3: There was you know, girls.

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Speaker 5: That had had you know, like cysts on their ovarias

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Speaker 5: once when I was sixteen.

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Speaker 3: They couldn't four preak.

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Speaker 5: So we found ourselves in a room of not people people,

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Speaker 5: but so many different people that all just wanted to

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Speaker 5: become parents. And there were so many different avenues we

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Speaker 5: could all take to become a mama or a dad

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Speaker 5: or a parent.

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Speaker 2: So you come out, you come out of this conference,

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Speaker 2: You've got this feeling of elation that you've decided that

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Speaker 2: we want to be dads, which is a huge decision,

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Speaker 2: and every data, every parent when they go through that,

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Speaker 2: it's a tingly weird feeling.

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Speaker 4: What's your next step? There you go, we're going to

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Speaker 4: do this, We're doing it, we want to do it.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait what happens next.

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Speaker 5: We find ourself a fertility clinic in the States, find

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Speaker 5: ourself a fertility clinic here in Australia that can help

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Speaker 5: facilitate getting.

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Speaker 3: Our sperm over to the States.

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Speaker 5: We find an egg donor agency, we find a surrogacy agency,

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Speaker 5: and then a whole lot of lawyers Jesus.

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Speaker 3: A lot of moving pieces and the lot of stakeholders.

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Speaker 5: I just had sex with my wife and a couple

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Speaker 5: of times do you know what, Mark, because that I

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Speaker 5: tried the bottle of red wine and throwing the leg

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Speaker 5: over many as.

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Speaker 3: Stop drinking.

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Speaker 1: Unfair, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what? It's not?

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Speaker 5: And I appreciate you saying it, but it's not. It's

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Speaker 5: just our reality, right, And and we never once in

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Speaker 5: it played a victim and we didn't want to. We

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Speaker 5: actually still even find now and it makes me emotional

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Speaker 5: that we got what we really wanted right, and there's

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Speaker 5: so many people still that haven't taken card.

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Speaker 1: You got your fantasy.

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Speaker 5: We we we are privileged because we're able to create

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Speaker 5: a family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you still can't.

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Speaker 4: It's so crazy like you meet when you meet people

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Speaker 4: like for me, I was I was really lucky in

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Speaker 4: my situation where it happened quite quickly. Yeah, and it

365
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Speaker 4: does happen, but then there's always complications in terms of

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Speaker 4: it could take a while. I met a guy the

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Speaker 4: other day and did a podcast with him who he

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Speaker 4: and his wife have been trying for a year and

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Speaker 4: a half, which in the scheme of things, I would say, oh,

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Speaker 4: that's ages, but there's people trying to be six years

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Speaker 4: five six year and it's not Yeah, it's not fair,

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Speaker 4: you know in some in some instances, and.

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Speaker 3: Well you guys would know this as dads.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure I've forgotten the six years, the trauma, like

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Speaker 5: the trauma and the contracts and the amount of four

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Speaker 5: AM calls with people in Texas and the heartbreak and

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Speaker 5: the news and the know news and the meetings like

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Speaker 5: the amount of money that was spent and the wants

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Speaker 5: and the conversations.

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Speaker 3: We had that's all gone. Now it's a blur. I've

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Speaker 3: forgotten it.

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Speaker 5: And during it, you know, we had this process that

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Speaker 5: we never complained into the circle. We could only complain

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Speaker 5: out of the circle, like to friends and family, but

385
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Speaker 5: they could never complain to us about the process, right,

386
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Speaker 5: they could complain outside of the circle, and that was

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Speaker 5: to kind of protect us. And then finally when we

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Speaker 5: had a surrygate to protect the surrogate that they didn't

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Speaker 5: hear our frustrations.

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Speaker 1: Of all those steps, was there one that was the hardest,

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Speaker 1: like the most difficult puzzle to put in?

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Speaker 5: So let's say there's twenty steps, right you the ip's

393
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Speaker 5: intended parents. You are in control of nineteen of them.

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Speaker 5: You make nineteen decisions. Yeah, the first nineteen. The last

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Speaker 5: one is out of your control. The surrogate has to

396
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Speaker 5: choose you, okay, And it makes so much sense. They

397
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Speaker 5: have to, well, they put their body, their life on

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Speaker 5: the line, and their family on hold to create a

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Speaker 5: family for somebody else. They have to want to connect

400
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Speaker 5: to you, to want to bring your family dreams to life.

401
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,120
Speaker 3: Which makes a lot of sense when you really learn about.

402
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 5: It, because it stops people of privilege being able to

403
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 5: buy the right to a woman's body. Right. That's where

404
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 5: the regulation really comes in over in America. So the

405
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 5: complication for us was COVID. We were COVID had hit,

406
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 5: and you had heard of it's common for a pregnant

407
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Speaker 5: woman to go on bed rest, But during COVID, family

408
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,120
Speaker 5: weren't allowed to go and visit you if you're in hospital.

409
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Speaker 5: So if a woman was put on a surroga was

410
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Speaker 5: put on bed rest for four or five weeks, they

411
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Speaker 5: were sitting in a hospital by themselves, without their family

412
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Speaker 5: being able to come and see them. So all of

413
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 5: a sudden, surrogate said, hang on, we're not going to

414
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 5: be surrogates during COVID. So there was this big shortage

415
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 5: and then so in that shortage, we were still hoping

416
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 5: someone would pick us.

417
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Speaker 3: So just it dragged it out.

418
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Speaker 4: Is there anywhere along that process where you had the

419
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Speaker 4: feeling of this is not going to happen.

420
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Speaker 3: One time it was really hard.

421
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 5: We were away and we got matched with a surrogate

422
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 5: and we were like, oh my god, it's going to happen.

423
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 5: And we had the transfer date of when they were

424
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 5: going to the fertility clinic, and to match with one,

425
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 5: you know, meant a lot, you know, somebody emotionally saying

426
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,199
Speaker 5: I'm going to bring your dreams to life, and you

427
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 5: know the reality we're like four years in I think

428
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 5: it was, and then we get a call from the

429
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 5: surrogacy agency the day of transfer and we're waiting to

430
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 5: hear like, you know, the transfer embryo transfer transfer went

431
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 5: really well, and we got told I hang on the

432
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Speaker 5: surrogate actually really can't actually be your surreygen anymore.

433
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Speaker 3: And we were like, what the fuck, what do you mean,

434
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 3: what's happened?

435
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 5: They said, we just found out the doctor whilst doing

436
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 5: the transfer, overheard her in conversation say that she was

437
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 5: on a medication, which actually she didn't disclose to us,

438
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 5: which it goes against you being able to be a surrogate.

439
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 5: And we were like, oh my god. They went so

440
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 5: back to the drawing board and hung up on.

441
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 3: Us and we were like far out god. Yeah, So

442
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Speaker 3: that that really during the process.

443
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Speaker 5: That was when we were like this took forever to

444
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Speaker 5: get here, and then it just disappeared like that.

445
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Speaker 4: Can you describe that feeling you felt in that moment?

446
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 4: I looked at Marcus. I can remember it were in BALI.

447
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 4: I looked at Marcus and he was like, you could

448
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 4: tell her. He was like, well, I don't know what

449
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 4: to do now, And I knew exactly what I could do,

450
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 4: and that was put a fucking email together and tear

451
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 4: these motherfuckers to pieces, right, especially because when it's there

452
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 4: was a lot of contracts throughout the process, but at

453
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 4: the end of the day day I made it clear

454
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 4: to them that you're working with people that are really

455
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 4: vulnerable and actually you kind of have to do your

456
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 4: due diligence and this lies on you like you've taken

457
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 4: us so far down a road and then you've just

458
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 4: pulled it away from us and you've just said, oh, well,

459
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 4: it happens back to the drawing board. And so the

460
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 4: sensitivity around it, you know, I'm pretty optimistic.

461
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 3: I knew we would. I took it as a bit.

462
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 5: Of a sign that, hang on, there was something wrong there,

463
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 5: like that maybe it was a positive and a good thing,

464
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 5: but I saw my husband kind.

465
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 3: Of go, oh my god, how much longer can we

466
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: just keep doing this?

467
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, then how was it when that took place

468
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: to when you were able to lock in the surrogate

469
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,360
Speaker 1: that gave you the twins.

470
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 5: And became along I would say eight nine months later,

471
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 5: still a long time, and you know we've got we

472
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:57,360
Speaker 5: had something like I think thirty great ambryos sitting waiting.

473
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 3: To go right like, which which is a wild number.

474
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 3: And we got amber and she sorry, you have your surrogate.

475
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: She's getting the.

476
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 5: Surrogate is not the egg donor. Yeah, we've had an

477
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 5: egg donor.

478
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 3: Who we've got. We were able to.

479
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 5: Get forty one eggs from wow, split down the middle

480
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 5: of twenty was fertilized with Marcus's sperm, twenty one fertilized

481
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 5: with mine.

482
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 3: And then they grow them to day five.

483
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 5: And then in America they tell you if it's a

484
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 5: great A, B or C or something, and B or

485
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 5: C they do up to three thousand something like a

486
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 5: genetic disorder testing, and they destroy any.

487
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: That are a level C.

488
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 5: Grade A is like won't let they say pretty much

489
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 5: won't lead to any you know, problems hues or miscarriages

490
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 5: or whatever. And so we ended up I think with

491
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 5: like nineteen grade A embryos. Wow, which is like good

492
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 5: number of US fucking basketball team, like totally unheard of.

493
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 5: So like we got forty one eggs and the standard

494
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 5: is five to six eggs.

495
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, you like triple that.

496
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 5: Yes, she fucking super human our egg donut and there

497
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 5: and I don't know if you guys have spoken to

498
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 5: her like a fertility clinic before that spell.

499
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: I kind of want to quickly take you to my own.

500
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 5: If I'm like taking all that, we go to an

501
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 5: ivy f clinic here to do?

502
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: I don't know. The cum dump.

503
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 5: Literally literally just like wank into a giants.

504
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 3: He's what you've seen in the movies. Right. They even

505
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: gave a straight porn that I had to walk out.

506
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: I was like, really, what the.

507
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 6: Literally looked at my phone, right.

508
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 5: And the fascinating thing is you can't use lube because

509
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 5: it can contaminate.

510
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: I just saw you never do anything.

511
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: And then this lady, we.

512
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 5: Were like, you know, we were a bit worried, you

513
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 5: know what if And she was with something like a

514
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 5: character out of a movie. Like imagine a like sixty

515
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 5: five year old lady sitting behind a counter in a

516
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 5: medical like, you know center, with a drry in her mouth.

517
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 3: She didn't have one, but it was a classic receptionist

518
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: and she's thinking, all you guys are the same. Let

519
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: me tell you this. She said, I've been working in

520
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: fertility for over twenty years.

521
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 5: Eggs women, they are so fragile and perfect.

522
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 3: She said, when you put any man's.

523
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: Sperm under a microscope and look at it, it's that dumb.

524
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: It always fucking swims to the side of the glass

525
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 3: of the pine tree dish.

526
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 5: Right, She's like, it's all the same, Trust that you'll

527
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 5: be fine.

528
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 3: There picturing the person remorse as semens.

529
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 5: So, yeah, we're apparently our sperm is perfect, all of us,

530
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 5: all of us, guys, we rarely have problems congratulation.

531
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: Actually, I was like, I bet you he's been naughty before,

532
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: and I bet it's got great sperm. Yeah, I thought

533
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: that I was picking up on it. And so then

534
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: you lock in Amber, who you said before, do you

535
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: kind of just let her do a thing? She's in

536
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: the States, do you fly over? Do you have any

537
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: contact with her while she's pregnant.

538
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 5: We started what we call and we've still got the

539
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 5: group chat, found the group chat, and it's gone modern

540
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 5: family and and you know, she would tell we had

541
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 5: to build a relationship because she's the person that's going

542
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 5: to feel the first kick and deciber that to.

543
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 3: Give you guys a call, like, give us a call

544
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: and take us on that journeying experience with her.

545
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: Do you want those little nuggets along the way?

546
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: Of course?

547
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: Right like you're like, we're pregnant, Oh my god, And

548
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: you wait for the sixth week, and then you wait

549
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 5: for the you know, the nine week and the twelve week,

550
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 5: and not all these scans and uptation, isn't it? And

551
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 5: you know, you go, hang on, but this is somebody

552
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 5: else's life that's helping us out. So you've got to

553
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 5: respect the boundary and what is the boundaries you need

554
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 5: to create? And we were so weirdly lucky that when

555
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 5: we matched with Amber at the end of the call,

556
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 5: Marcus and I you could tell we kicking each other

557
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 5: under the table. We're like, she's so cool, and we

558
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 5: got to meet her partner and her kids came in

559
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 5: right on this like skyte and then she goes, I

560
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 5: just got to see something.

561
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 3: She's like, it just hit me.

562
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 5: I love your tiktoks so good.

563
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: You tell me I've made it all the way.

564
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

565
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 5: But it was like, we never wanted that to be

566
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: a part of why someone would want to carry out children,

567
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 5: And it just hit her at the end, and she,

568
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 5: throughout the pregnancy played like Martin Luke's podcast like for

569
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 5: the Boys six. Yeah, she asked us what our favorite

570
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 5: songs were so she could play music Like Yeah, she

571
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 5: really did a lot for us.

572
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: Ash and I were taking this journey from a place

573
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: of like a bit of naivety. But do you then

574
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: go over and say, we'll be there in the country

575
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: when you give birth.

576
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 5: So there's court orders, which is phenomenal that, like America

577
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 5: is just unbelievable with the court orders and contracts right

578
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 5: that from birth, the babies are born with minor Marcus,

579
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 5: there's a court order ready to go as soon as

580
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 5: they're born that they are born with our names on

581
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: their birth certificate, not to surrogate at all because that

582
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 5: would and she has no rights at all to the babies.

583
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 5: That if she did, it would be it would be

584
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 5: an ambrolert. Literally they would be like kidnapping. Marcus and

585
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: I we had a window. I can't remember what it was,

586
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 5: but if we weren't there, they could become awarded to

587
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 5: the state.

588
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 3: Got to be there, Yeah, you're the parents, You got to.

589
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 5: How long that window was I can't remember what it was,

590
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 5: but I do remember the surrogacy agency saying we can

591
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 5: apply for an exemption to like nless say they come

592
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: and you guys can't be here in like in like

593
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 5: a period of time, we would take responsibility for them

594
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 5: for a period of because, which she did. They were

595
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 5: two months early, they were two months prem goodness, how

596
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 5: many weeks they were thirty one week when they came,

597
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 5: which is not uncommon for twins, but it's pretty fucked

598
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 5: up when your two Aussie dads and you have to

599
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 5: go to Armarillo, Texas.

600
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: I've been and I stayed in the best Western.

601
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: There at Amarillo, FU day, Yeah, twenty fifteen. I do

602
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 4: recall you went over. You were there for quite a while.

603
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 4: Can you talk us through that process? They come early,

604
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 4: you're there, you've obviously there, got your name.

605
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: What happens next? Uh, we're so.

606
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 5: Out of our depth. Yep, we're doing the best. I

607
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 5: say this about every parent. We're doing the best. We

608
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 5: come with what we've got, for sure. We have no

609
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 5: idea what babies are, and they're in these incubators and

610
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 5: where it's overload of information in a foreign place. We

611
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 5: become reciprocates of support from the Ronald McDonald house, who

612
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 5: were like it's here, Like we were like, oh no,

613
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 5: we can't stay here. It's for people that need need this,

614
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 5: and they were like, it's for you guys, Like it's

615
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 5: a comfortable bed, it's a home away from home. You

616
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: guys are going to be here for quite a while. Wow.

617
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 5: And you know they're like, it's right across the road

618
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 5: from the hospital. We were staying in the hospital next

619
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 5: to the boys. What was really sad. Actually we would

620
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 5: spend fifteen sixteen hours a day with them, right, and.

621
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: Most other babies.

622
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 5: In that ward didn't have any parents sitting with them,

623
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: and so many were born toward like to the state.

624
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 5: And it was I said to Marcus one day about

625
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 5: this young, young baby girl. I said, don't let me

626
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 5: see her, because I'll apply for adoption like like I could.

627
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 5: And there was this terrible moment where a nurse referred

628
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 5: to her as a bitch. This little bitch won't shut up.

629
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 5: This is a week old baby that was born prem

630
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 5: whose mother gave her up for whatever reasons because you

631
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 5: couldn't have an abortion it's illegal, right, Yeah, and became

632
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 5: a ward of the state. And I was like, what

633
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 5: hope does this child have when even the nurses are

634
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 5: calling you a bitch?

635
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: The day at a week in.

636
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: And what's so annoying as well is annoying that so

637
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: many people out there at these conferences we were desperate,

638
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: they had this fantasy with being parents. And then it's like,

639
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: how can we not connect these children that are desperately

640
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: mean parents to love them.

641
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: And so we we now look at it as it

642
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: was a master class.

643
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 5: There was a moment to bond with these boys that

644
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 5: we didn't realize we were going to get because we thought,

645
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 5: hang on, we're going to get some babies, will come

646
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 5: home and we'll fucking keep working and we'll we'll figure

647
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 5: the rest out. And now, in hindsight, which is beautiful,

648
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: we got a master class in babies.

649
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: So you've got the best people around you.

650
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 5: These doctors and directors of the ward and that that

651
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: would come and see how much time Marks and I

652
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 5: was spending there, and they loved it. They're like, this

653
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 5: is so rare, and so they taught us. They brought

654
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 5: us in tune together, every movement, sound, everything that the

655
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 5: boys started to make and do, and these mini milestones

656
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 5: they have to make to graduate out of Niker is wild.

657
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 3: Right. The amount of work this baby has to do

658
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: is fascinating and.

659
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 5: There's nothing you can really do other than try and

660
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 5: give it your energy and love and whatever. And they

661
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 5: did end up graduating, but we went we can't believe

662
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 5: people are given a baby.

663
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: After two days and sent home.

664
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 5: And so since that we go there was a masterclass

665
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: and we knew exactly what the boys needed, when, where, why,

666
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 5: and how because for five weeks, fifteen hours a day,

667
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 5: we were supported by nurses and doctors that were telling

668
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 5: us everything about a baby.

669
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

670
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: Did you ever have any guild as a parent like

671
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: I always think for those nine months, you know, with

672
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: Marley and Flola, my two girls, when I'm waiting for

673
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: them to arrive in this world, and I'm like, oh

674
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: my god, i cannot wait to meet them, and it's amazing.

675
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: For me, childbirth was great.

676
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 3: For me. It went better than I.

677
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: Then I get the guilt where I'm like, when the

678
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: moments where it's so hard, and I'm like, I should

679
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: be loving this because i wanted this so bad, and

680
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: now that I've got it, I'm not enjoying every second.

681
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: But for you, You've got on this journey of you know,

682
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: years and years and years and having twins, I kind

683
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: of found them how hard that would be, but in

684
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: the moments we are not enjoying it. How are you

685
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: dealing with the guilt?

686
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 5: The first four months we had to we had to

687
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 5: feed the boys every three hours, but it took an

688
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 5: hour and a half to do the both of them,

689
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 5: So every hour and a half we had to start again,

690
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 5: just through the night for so it was eight twelve am,

691
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 5: three am, six am, nine am, twelve pm, three pm,

692
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 5: six pm, nine pm back to twelve am.

693
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: It's exhausting, isn't it right?

694
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 5: And I took an hour and a half to do

695
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 5: to took forty five minutes through one baby. Because ultra

696
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: prem babies, if a feed has to take they have

697
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 5: to take x amount of calories in over thirty minutes

698
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 5: if every minute over the thirty minutes completely counteracts.

699
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: What they've just done because of the depletion of energy

700
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: they've used, So there's this pressure on you to do.

701
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 5: That, and then you have to berth them a certain

702
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 5: way for an x amount of time because they're not

703
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 5: developed yet right to be able to do what a

704
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: term baby can do, so it takes.

705
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: Far more time.

706
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 5: So it was an hour and a half to do

707
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 5: both boys, and then an hour and a half lady

708
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 5: had to start again. And there were these nights no

709
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 5: lie and it was three am and it was my

710
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 5: gig and I was like cooked, like beyond and it was.

711
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 5: It sounds so cliche and weird, right, but there was

712
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 5: this star that I could see every single night looking

713
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 5: out the window, and I would think to myself, I'm

714
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 5: so not alone, and I've got so many people around us,

715
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 5: like we're privileged, We've got good family and friends and

716
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 5: a network. And I would look at this start and

717
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 5: I was like, there's parents, probably mothers, doing this by themselves.

718
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 5: And I had everything at my disposal, and that that

719
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 5: was like what got me through that. I was like,

720
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 5: I'm actually really lucky. We got everything we wanted. It's hard,

721
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 5: it's frustrating, this is fucking tiring as fuck, right, But

722
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 5: I was like, there's there's someone else out here doing

723
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 5: a feed by themselves with no support right now that

724
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 5: might be looking at that star and there was just

725
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 5: starting to know a connection I had with it.

726
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 4: And You're right, there's so many people out there that

727
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: don't have the support and the network. As dads and

728
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 4: as parents, we sometimes we take those moments for granted.

729
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: That hang on a minute, like, people are really battling

730
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: to have what I have and it's really hard to

731
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 4: see that sometimes, and we are just doing the.

732
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: Best we can with what we've got.

733
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 5: I truly believe it, right, And and that just told

734
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 5: me I wasn't alone, right, And it can feel so lonely.

735
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: You guys know this as parents.

736
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 5: Every parent does right, like the pros and cons and

737
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 5: the pressure can put on the relationship and yourself and

738
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 5: but you know, it's a moment in time and we're

739
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 5: you're not alone in it, even though you might feel it.

740
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 5: So find that one thing that might connect you to

741
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 5: somebody else when when you really feel alone.

742
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 5: Wow.

744
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: And when you look at the type of dad that

745
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: you are now, are the twins they ate nine months?

746
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: Eighteen months?

747
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: Oh shit?

748
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

749
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: Are you the type of dad now that when you

750
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: were fantasizing about being a parent, Do they match up?

751
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

752
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 5: I love therapy right, And my therapist one day I

753
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 5: said to her, is this.

754
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: The same one that said don't fuck for five dates?

755
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 3: No different, You've got to evolve in.

756
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 5: I said, you know, I have this idea of the

757
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 5: type of dad I want to be, but I'm scared

758
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 5: of the dad I know I'm going to be, which

759
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 5: is a helicopter parent. I'll find it hard to share

760
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 5: them or let them go right to some people. She said, well, like,

761
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 5: you have to work on the type of person you

762
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 5: want to be. You have to actually do the work

763
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 5: to be the parent you want to be. It's not

764
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 5: just going to come to you. I had to very

765
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 5: early actively make myself uncomfortable as a dad by allowing

766
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 5: my boys to be with other people who do the

767
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 5: things that I thought I was a bit frightened of.

768
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 5: And now I'm like, this is a call less little

769
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 5: fucking cats, Like we hang out, like they were eating

770
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 5: ants on the floor the other day with me, and

771
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 5: I was like it was just like there's these moments

772
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 5: of like, oh, I got a bird at the park,

773
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 5: and like the three of us are fascinated together, and

774
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,959
Speaker 5: I'm like, this was it.

775
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 3: This is exactly everything I wanted it. And it's so

776
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: profound sometimes that you don't.

777
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 4: Realize it till you get in the car after the

778
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 4: session You're like Holy. So there's times like for me

779
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: where I've always sort of felt somewhat isolated as a

780
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 4: child growing up, and then now it's sort of into

781
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: my I feel like I always have to be around people.

782
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: And my therapist said, you've got a little best friend. Now,

783
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 4: do you not understand that?

784
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but whatever you say, they're like, fuck, yeah, yeah,

785
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 3: I'm in there or die.

786
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 4: I remember that sentence and I get in the car

787
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 4: and I was like, I fucking cried dude, because I

788
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 4: was like, I can't believe I took that for granted

789
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 4: and I didn't know it was right there.

790
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 5: I promised Bobby Beckett vocally the other day, promised him.

791
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 5: I'm like, as your dad, I said, as your dad,

792
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 5: I promise you, mate.

793
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: I'm never going to tell you you're too much.

794
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 5: Because he has this zest of energy and life you

795
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 5: just see already, which is just the excitement he has

796
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 5: of the world around him. He's just going to run

797
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 5: headfirst into the world with it. And whereas you know,

798
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 5: over to Oliver, he is the most considered human being

799
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: I've ever come across as well. But my whole life,

800
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 5: having full energy, was always told shut up, you too much,

801
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 5: be quiet, just always.

802
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 3: Put in this corner. And there was this moment the

803
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: other day.

804
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 5: I looked at Bobby Becker and I went, my job,

805
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 5: as your dad is to one hundred percent.

806
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: Make sure like I let you really be the best

807
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: version of you. I'm never going to.

808
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: Say you too much.

809
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that so much.

810
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: We were speaking in the car driving here about the

811
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: fact that for yourself, two loving dads, obviously no mum

812
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: in the picture because Amber doesn't play that role. Is

813
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: that something that plays on your mind as a dad?

814
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 5: Now, it's funny you say that I had this. I'm

815
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 5: gonna fucking cry again. I don't think I was going to.

816
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: Two people cry on your podcast. Oh good, she.

817
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 4: Keeps trying to get me to cry, but I've just

818
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 4: wired differently.

819
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: But getting back to.

820
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 5: The two girls, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, and I had this moment.

821
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys have come across her.

822
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 5: What's her name, fucking miss something. She's American, Miss Rachel.

823
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: God do tell.

824
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 5: I had this moment and it was caught on It

825
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 5: was just organic and natural. And the boys, they haven't

826
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: really liked television or connected to anything, just flicking and

827
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 5: I'm scrolling and they just go super silent and they

828
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 5: are like hooked to Miss Rachel. She's never come on before,

829
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 5: but they have just stopped in sync and they're listening

830
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 5: to it right, and I was like, oh my god,

831
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 5: this is fascinating. We're down a show to fucking like

832
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 5: that I can use to distract them if I need it,

833
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 5: right And next second she starts going, okay, now let's

834
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 5: say I.

835
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: Love you mama.

836
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 5: I love you mama, and I'm going, oh my fucking god.

837
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: I'm like I wasn't ready for this.

838
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 5: And I'm looking at the boys and they're like they

839
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 5: can pick up everything really quick.

840
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: Some one starts saying mummy, mummy, and I'm like, oh

841
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: my god. Anyway, I'm like, look that girl has a

842
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: mom bright like, oh, how cool? Right.

843
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 5: I tried to just throw it off and anyway, I

844
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 5: was like, get this bitch off my television.

845
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna fuck sit up. I wasna read out

846
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: of this conversation.

847
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 5: And then I put the boys in the bath later

848
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 5: on and I start crying. I bore my eyes out

849
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 5: right because I'm like, I have a really good mom,

850
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 5: and I realized that my boys are never going to

851
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 5: have a mom. And then I've felt guilty that have

852
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 5: brought kids into this world that aren't ever going to

853
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 5: have a mom. They've got two really great dads. But

854
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 5: they're never going to experience what I did in a mum.

855
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 3: And I shared that.

856
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 5: As well as I quickly fucking kicked myself up the

857
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 5: ass and picked myself up and I kept moving.

858
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 3: And what I.

859
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 5: Got was this beautiful and I never looked for validation

860
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 5: from others, but I share parts of myself and people

861
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 5: were like I had. I had one mom and one

862
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 5: dad and they were both disappointments.

863
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 3: Your kids don't just have one great dad.

864
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 5: They've got two incredible dads, like far more than what

865
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 5: I ever had. And there was this beautiful, beautiful sense

866
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 5: of like I think respect I got or or people

867
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 5: held up a mirror.

868
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: To me in that moment. I was like, alright, cool,

869
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: pick yourself up. They're going to be fine.

870
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: But you know, I think it comes from and I

871
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 5: come from a loving family that I went, oh my god,

872
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 5: my boys aren't I'm going to miss out on something

873
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 5: I loved having, which.

874
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: Is a good mum.

875
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: These boys have two dads that absolutely loved them so much.

876
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 4: And you said something before where you said, I'm never

877
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 4: ever going to tell you that you're too much.

878
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: I want you to be you.

879
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 4: And that is something that no one else other than

880
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 4: two loving parents can give them, and congratulations for that,

881
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 4: because sitting with you for forty five minutes, you can

882
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 4: tell how fucking passionate you are about these two humans

883
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 4: that you've.

884
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: They are so lucky you've spent so long to.

885
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: Bring into the world.

886
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 4: And then when they grow up and they're like, I'm

887
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 4: going to have the coolest fucking dads in the world.

888
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 5: I just can't wait. Like Luke tells this great story.

889
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 5: Our egg donor is six or six. She plays volleyball

890
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 5: for America and is an Ivy League scholar.

891
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: The drug did you get them into a sports school immediately?

892
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: So listen, They're going to be giants. They already are, right.

893
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 5: I just have this nightmare before they were born that

894
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 5: I would carry them as babies under both arms and

895
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 5: their legs were dragged. The boys are eighty months they're

896
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 5: already like eighty two centimeters tall. One's premier, and they're

897
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 5: already like they're going to be fucking monsters. And Luke

898
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 5: says this great story to somebody the other week. He goes,

899
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 5: I just fast forward and in like fifteen years time,

900
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 5: twenty years time, like they'll be playing professional basketball or something, right,

901
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 5: and then the other people on the team will be like,

902
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 5: who is that little lady screaming on the sidelines and.

903
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: Looks like there's going to be these two giant kids

904
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: are going to be like, that's how dad on the sidelines.

905
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 5: They're just going to be the proudest, like biggest giants

906
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 5: on the fucking team.

907
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 3: Two very lucky kids. Yeah, we're lucky parents. Do con

908
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 3: has one more question?

909
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: Conscious that we're going to get some vanilla ice creams

910
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: and bolonnais into you. So one last question. When the

911
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: boys are grown up and they've moved out of home,

912
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: they're no longer living under your roof, what is the

913
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: one thing you want them to remember about the house

914
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: they grew up in.

915
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: My God, I think that they were allowed.

916
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 5: They were allowed, and that's means allowed to be them

917
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 5: their true self, That they were in a place that

918
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 5: was of no judgment and nothing but support. And I

919
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 5: came from that home, but in a different in a

920
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 5: different generation, a different time that where generational and or

921
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 5: like societal norms really greatly affected you, right, And so

922
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 5: Minor Marux's yeah, like dream and promise is that they're

923
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 5: never going to carry the burden of what society, you know.

924
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: What mold they should have fit into.

925
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, not in our house, Like that doesn't exist in

926
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: our house.

927
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 5: So I want them to know that they can always,

928
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 5: always truly one be themselves and not be affected by

929
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 5: whatever anyone else around them thinks.

930
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 4: That's an amazing, amazing answer, And thank you so much.

931
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 4: I know we've been trying to get you on for

932
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 4: a long time.

933
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 5: Realizing perfect moment and I'm really grateful for this time too.

934
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: Thank you so much much. Been a bloody joy. Thanks fellas.

935
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: I often complaining fash about parenting. When I say often,

936
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean daily. I was gonna say, howie, but it

937
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: is really nice to speak to someone else, another parent,

938
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: to put into perspective how lucky we are considering we

939
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: didn't have to go through six years of trying, of

940
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: going through a minefield to try and just be a

941
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: To try and just be a parent.

942
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 2: Is literally a rollercoaster. Like the patients on both of them.

943
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: There are so many people that probably just will give

944
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: up just because they lose hope. But it just goes

945
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: to show if you're persistent enough and you really want that,

946
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: then you know it can come true. So amazing chat.

947
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: There's laughs, people cried, not me this.

948
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: Time not yet. Yeah, do I dare say? Do I

949
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: dare say? One of my favorite episodes.

950
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was great chat. It was so like

951
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: organic and like funny and there's some laughs.

952
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: Some li I liked him before, I love him now.

953
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

954
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: And his brother is also a very good fellow.

955
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 1: Let's not forget about Luke Luke. If I have kids,

956
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: get on the podcast.

957
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a little review

958
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: five stars, send us to a friend, or you can

959
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: join us where on socials.

960
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: Mat on social media at two Doting Dads on Instagram, TikTok.

961
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: There is also YouTube not for these eves for the

962
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: Wednesday episodes. Ignore me, I'm confusing you, but leave a review.

963
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: There we go perfect.

964
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: See how bye bye.

965
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country

966
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.

967
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 4: We pay our respects to their elders past and present

968
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 4: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight onland

969
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 4: the people's today