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Speaker 1: Look, you may have heard on the show yesterday there

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Speaker 1: was a report by the ABC that there'd been some

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Speaker 1: leaked documents. So draft government documents about fishing rights in

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal waters had been leaked to the ABC yesterday. Now,

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Speaker 1: the ABC had said that it had triggered an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: threat of injunction by the Northern Territory government, before later

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Speaker 1: indicating that it would not seek to move forward with

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Speaker 1: any legal action. But essentially what the documents had shown,

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Speaker 1: or what they relate to, is the ongoing implications of

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Speaker 1: the High Courts landmark Blue Mud Bay decision from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Now, we did catch up with the

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Speaker 1: recreational fishes yesterday Afant we heard from David Chirrovolo, who

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Speaker 1: had certainly spoken about his hopes that there is some

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Speaker 1: really good negotiation underway currently to try to work through

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Speaker 1: you know where people are going to be able to fish,

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Speaker 1: you know where is not going to be appropriate to fish,

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Speaker 1: and you know how we move forward. I guess following

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Speaker 1: on from that two thousand and eight decision, now I

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Speaker 1: am pleased to say that joining me in the studio

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Speaker 1: this morning from the Northern Land Council, it is the CEO,

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Speaker 1: Joe Martin Jard, Good morning to you, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Good to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for joining us this morning. Now, Joe,

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Speaker 1: from your perspective, where are the negotiations at with the

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Speaker 1: Northern Land Council and the Northern Territory Government in relation

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Speaker 1: to this?

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Speaker 2: Look, I might just go back a couple of years

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Speaker 2: to twenty nineteen. We signed a big agreement with Michael

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Speaker 2: Gunner at the time as the Chief Minister, and at

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Speaker 2: the time there's a lot of goodwill and then we

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Speaker 2: got hit with COVID and that really slowed things down,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, So we're ramping up those talks again.

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Speaker 2: Now we're back talking to Territory government officials and we're

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Speaker 2: still confident that we'll get a good outcome for fishers

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Speaker 2: and the commercial operators and so on.

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Speaker 1: What is the feeling amongst those traditional owners at this

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Speaker 1: point in time, Obviously, you know, following on from that

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Speaker 1: agreement being signed back in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of goodwill on that side, but

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Speaker 2: a little bit of frustration creeping in.

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Speaker 1: Now we.

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Speaker 2: Been instructed that we've got to go and talk to

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Speaker 2: the territory government. No one's sort of contemplating closing any

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Speaker 2: waters or anything. But we've just got to keep taking

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Speaker 2: instructions because since that High Court decision fourteen years ago,

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Speaker 2: it's been open slather. So now teos are saying, the

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Speaker 2: traditional owners are saying, all right, enough's enough, we've got

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Speaker 2: this agreement. Let's get to the table and work something out.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, have have the government been quite open have

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Speaker 1: they come to the party when you talk about those

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Speaker 1: negotiations at this point or do you feel as those

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Speaker 1: things have stalled.

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Speaker 2: Under Michael Gunner things were going along well and then

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Speaker 2: there was a change of leadership and now we've got

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Speaker 2: Natasha Files as Chief Minister. We've met her at Wave Hills.

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Speaker 2: She seemed quite quite open to talking. But we just

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Speaker 2: feel there is a bit of stalling down in the

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Speaker 2: officials level. But we're meeting with them this afternoon in fact,

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Speaker 2: so we want to get it back on track and

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Speaker 2: we want to get some good outcomes for everybody.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, with that meeting the SAVO, I mean, what

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Speaker 1: are you sort of hoping for? What's the NLC hoping for?

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Speaker 1: When it comes to that progress, we'll.

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Speaker 2: Reach an agreement on those bits of coast that still

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Speaker 2: need to be resolved. I just want to let your

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Speaker 2: listeners know that there's a big swag of open coastline

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Speaker 2: right now, and there's these what we call long term

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Speaker 2: access agreements. So for example, you can take your boat

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Speaker 2: down to Daily River and you don't need a permit

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Speaker 2: at all, and that's not going to change either next year.

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Speaker 2: So you dar and harbor parents can take out their

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Speaker 2: kids fishing for the day, no problem. But where there

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Speaker 2: are these areas that traditional owners have said that they

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Speaker 2: want to have us say their views to the table

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Speaker 2: this afternoon, and that's where we want to end up.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, when you talk about that like

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Speaker 1: January next year, obviously the recreational fishers have said that

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Speaker 1: they've got you know, they've got concerns that you know

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Speaker 1: that there's not going to be that certainty by January

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Speaker 1: next year. I suppose what's your message for those people

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Speaker 1: out there listening this morning, who you know who are

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Speaker 1: worried about what's going to happen come January next year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we share their concerns. We're all passionate fishes up here,

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Speaker 2: and we'll be getting a message to them as soon

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Speaker 2: as possible. And just being really clear about what we

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Speaker 2: expect and look, I'll be honest, there's not going to

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Speaker 2: be a lot of change for the fishes. They'll be

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Speaker 2: able to go and do their thing and we encourage it.

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Speaker 1: Joe, are there any areas that you know that traditional

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Speaker 1: owners are concerned about that is that you are going

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Speaker 1: to be raising this afternoon?

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Speaker 2: Of course, there are some areas that I really can't

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Speaker 2: go into right now that are well sacred sites and

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Speaker 2: teos have said, look they're off limits, but when you

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Speaker 2: look at the whole of the coastline, those areas are

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Speaker 2: actually very small and in fact, hardly any fishes go there.

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Speaker 2: So the more popular fishing areas will be open.

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Speaker 1: Jo, Is it I mean, is it the intention of

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Speaker 1: the traditional liners at this point to you know, for

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Speaker 1: there to be uncertainty for reck fishes or you know,

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Speaker 1: they really like wanting to actually work with everybody from

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory to you know, to make sure that

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Speaker 1: this is an agreement that works for everybody. But where

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Speaker 1: those sites are respected and where those different locations are respected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look you've nailed at Katie's That's what we're working towards,

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Speaker 2: is we want all Territorians to be able to go

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Speaker 2: and fish and you know traditional owners. We're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking to the territory government about setting up more

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Speaker 2: ranger groups so when fishes are out there, keeping them safe,

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Speaker 2: keeping the areas clean and tidy, and so we see

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Speaker 2: some job outcomes for Aboriginal people too, So that that

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Speaker 2: will be on the table this afternoon when we're talking

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Speaker 2: to the Territory government.

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Speaker 1: Joe, I know that there'd been some concerns raised by

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Speaker 1: the Seafood Council. I believe with you know, with some

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Speaker 1: of those commercial fishes maybe not being able to access

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Speaker 1: different locations where they've previously been able to. What's the

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Speaker 1: situation there from the nlc's perspective.

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Speaker 2: I just want to acknowledge a person called Katherine Winchester

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Speaker 2: from the Seafood Council. She's been awesome to work with.

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Speaker 2: We've been working with her now for a long time.

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Speaker 2: In fact, only spoke to her the other day. She's

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Speaker 2: been working on behalf of her members to bring in

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Speaker 2: applications to access those waders that for example, you know

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Speaker 2: the mud Crab people because they work the intertitle zones.

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Speaker 2: And she's been terrific and in fact she's coming into

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Speaker 2: the office tomorrow for another meeting, so we'll keep progress

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Speaker 2: seeing those applications. We're going to because this is all

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Speaker 2: new for everybody, we're going to be quite lenient in

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Speaker 2: how we assess things and be a bit flexible.

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Speaker 1: So, Joe, it does sound as though the NLC LO

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Speaker 1: that you do want to work with everybody to try

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Speaker 1: to make this as workable for everyone around the territory

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Speaker 1: as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. We just need the territory government officials

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Speaker 2: to come at these negotiations with a lot of good will.

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Speaker 2: We felt like it kind of stumbled a bit when

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Speaker 2: Gunna left, but we just want to get it back

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Speaker 2: on so we can get the good faith happening in

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Speaker 2: these negotiations.

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Speaker 1: Is there something specific that you sort of need from

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Speaker 1: them at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, just come to the table with an open mind

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Speaker 2: and be willing to listen to us and we'll listen

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Speaker 2: to them well.

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Speaker 1: Joe Martin jar the CEO of the Northern Land Council,

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning, and no doubt

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Speaker 1: you and I'll probably catch up hopefully in the coming

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Speaker 1: days as well. If there is some progress. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that there will be a lot of people who are

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Speaker 1: feeling I think, much more comfortable after hearing from you

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Speaker 1: this morning that you know that the NLC certainly want

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Speaker 1: to work through these negotiations and work through everybody, with

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Speaker 1: everybody involved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'd like to make a commitment to let you

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Speaker 2: and your listeners be one of the first to know

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Speaker 2: as things develop, so people can start to plan their

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Speaker 2: Christmases and so on. We don't want to muck people around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Joe so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you