1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: are used by the world's most successful people to get 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: so much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of Behavioral 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Science Consultancy in Bentium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: to optimize my work day. This episode is another my 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: favorite Tip episode. The title is probably pretty self explanatory. 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: I conduct. So my guest today is Glenn Dolman. Glenn 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: is one of Australia's most sought after screenwriters. Glenn most 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: recently wrapped on the second season of his supernatural series 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: for Stan called Bloom which maybe you've watched, which he 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: created an executive produced. The first season was nominated for 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: an Actor for an AACTA Award for Best New Drama Series, 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: and the second season recently kicked off on Stan. Glenn's 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: written for a variety of different shows, including Britain's longest 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: running crime drama, The Bill, and he also wrote the 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: highly acclaimed tellymovie Hawk for Network ten, about the controversial 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: life of former Prime Minister Bob Hawk, which won the 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: Orgy Award for Best Original Telemovie and three AFI's there 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Australian Film Institute Awards, including for Best Tellymovie or Mini 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Series in twenty ten. So in this extract from my 23 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: interview with Glenn, we get into his strategies for injecting 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: creativity into a room full of writers. So over the 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: Glenn to see how he does that. 26 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: Writers like myself, like experience right, tends to be very 27 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: opinionated because that's why they're writers. I think. So I 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: didn't have trouble flaming the arguments they you're fueling over 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: They have been organically and you want them to because 30 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: people care and they have a perspective, or they understand 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: a particular character more than the other writer does, or 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: they think they do, and so you just sort of 33 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: want that, but you then run the room to make 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: sure you get it. So if you're often I think 35 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: it's sort of the reverse. The arguments sort of happen 36 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: automatically and you try and just focus them a little bit. 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: And also you're aware of how much work you've got 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: to do, and I think for this season and in 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: so many shows, you know you've got to type budget, 40 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: limited time, and those writer's rooms are expensive because you're 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: paying a lot of people to brainstorm and focus and work, 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: and so you have to be really resourceful with that time. 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: If an idea is not working straight away, you have 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: to park it and go into something else. 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: So how do you do that? Like, what are some 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: of the strategies that you're using to manage a writer's 47 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: room and kept on track? 48 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: And you know, at the end of the day, you've 49 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: got to have something to pitch back to the production 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: and network it. It gives you a very different sense 51 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: of responsibility. So you're trying to be creative and open 52 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: and fun and free and silly and and I the 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: kind of stories that I like and storytelling that I 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: like is very emotional and it's very raw, and so 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: I want it to be really personal. I remember Richard Curtis, 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 2: who wrote for weddings and not him and all. He 57 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: talked about writing as and he obviously he writes comedy writing, 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: but he writes a relationship righting that stage at the 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: end of a dinner party, when everyone's had a few 60 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: drinks and everyone's funny. That's the headspace you've got to 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: get into eight am. You know, when you're working in 62 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: a room or not. 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: What do you do that? 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it was like personal things that 65 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: I do if you're not there in a rooms, you know, 66 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: sort of start over sharing in a kind of weird 67 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: way of just sort of making people, oh, okay, let's 68 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: just be a bit vulnerable. Glenn's written on some personal 69 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: thing that happened to him. Let's sort of open up, 70 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: because sometimes the pressure of the end result disables that 71 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: real creative energy that you need and you start to 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: just be a bit mechanical with how you plot or 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: just safe how you plot, and as much as kind 74 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: of kind of break that down making the room feel 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: kind of safe and friendly and at the same time 76 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: it's it's tricky because tangents can be great and gold mines, 77 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: but most tangents are tangents and tad ends. So it's, 78 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: you know, just trying to learn about when you shut 79 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: off an idea and you move on and without deeply 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: offending someone too. 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: So how do you do that? 82 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: My mum's a primary school teacher. Have two things are 83 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: fun and fair, and I think I just have that 84 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: sense of trying to be fun but fair and firm. 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: It's the other one fun, fair and firm. And I 86 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: think that's sort of like running a room a little bit. 87 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: You need to be kind of firmed to sort of 88 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: move things along. But the goal does come from being 89 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: open to in buyed ideas and open to your own 90 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: personal experience, and that's what you need to manifest. 91 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: So like, how do you find that balance of going, okay, 92 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: we might go down sort of off in this segue, 93 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole here? 94 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: How do you know? 95 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: Is it just instinct telling you yes, let's explore? Is 96 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: it time constraints? 97 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: Like what is that instinct and time constraints? So I 98 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: think you kind of grandcreate. Is this going to bear fruit? 99 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: Am I going to spend an hour indulging this idea? 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: And often I find you park an idea and you 101 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: move on to a new one. And it's a little 102 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: bit like how you if you're struggling to remember something yourself, 103 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: you know that thing of like, well, I'll forget it 104 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: and I'll move on to the next thing, and then 105 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: it comes to you. And I think that's often the 106 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: creative process with when you have several people. It's like 107 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: if something's feeling jarring, let's move on go to something else, 108 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: or even let's take a coffee break list, and then 109 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: then you come back and you look at it kind 110 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: of slightly differently, and I think that that technique is 111 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: often good, and often the best ideas come mid morning, 112 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: late morning, and the very end of the day. 113 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: Really, what do you think that's about? 114 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: I think mid morning is, you know, people have got 115 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: energy when they start off, and so the first thing 116 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: they talk about is not the best thing, but they've 117 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: got energy, and they're sort of picking up from what 118 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: you said yesterday before, and you're planning what you're going 119 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: to do for the day, and so the first part 120 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: of the morning isn't great, but then you sort of 121 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: settle into something and then it clicks because you're all 122 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: fresh and energy. Okay, there's something here, we can really 123 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: use it. And then late morning is you know, everyone's 124 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: thinking about lunch but and so you're hungry. But that's 125 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: sort of a good burst of energy as well, sometimes 126 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: I find. And then the afternoons are hard and long 127 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: and painful, and then you're kind of frustrated because oh 128 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: that morning work actually really wasn't great and we thought 129 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: it was but real fresh, but now we're not and 130 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 2: so so but you wade through and you go down 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: different tangents, and then I find like when you sort 132 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: of like ease up and kind of go, well, it's actually, 133 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: you know, six o'clock and we really haven't. Oh man, 134 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: that was a bit wasted. And then as you sort 135 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: of ease up and kind of relaxing, some of my 136 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: new ideas hit you and sometimes you get clarity, and 137 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 2: you know, that's of roughly what I find. 138 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting, and that would match with 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: what the majority of the world's chronotypes are doing in 140 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: terms of just the natural peaks and troughs of energy. 141 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: Like people, you know, like whether if you're a lark 142 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: or a middle bird. It's kind of excluding ours who 143 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: come to life at night. Your best cognitive work is 144 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: done before lunch, and then you dip after lunch, but 145 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: then you have a rebound in the late afternoon. Yeah, 146 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: it feels like the writer's room is mirroring that it does. 147 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: Do you have strategies to overcome writer's block when you 148 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: are feeling stuck? Like, what do you personally do? 149 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: I guessaly different if it's you alone as opposed to 150 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: being in a room. Being a room has with multiple 151 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: people in one sense, has more pressure because of the 152 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: time restraints and the production output that you have to 153 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: get on, but you have more energy because you just 154 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: have different personalities, So shaking it up as much as 155 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: you can. I mean, sometimes you just liked, Okay, I'm 156 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: going to break away. If it goes often twos and 157 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: comes back with a few ideas, we can kick start something, 158 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: get moving around the room, have someone different work on 159 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: the whiteboard. I love a white board. I love a 160 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: white board pan, So I like kind of being that person. 161 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: But then I know sometimes it's better serve that I 162 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: sit down and let someone else run with it, or 163 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: putting someone unlikely up to run it to someone who 164 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: doesn't really want to. But I think that'll create a 165 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: better energy if they do, because you get them to 166 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 2: move around and put their thoughts visually on a board, 167 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: and that kind of helps bring us different sensibility to 168 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: the discussion. 169 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting, like just swapping the rolls around 170 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: within the room and just also physically just changing what 171 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: people are doing. Yes, that is it for today's show. 172 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: If you are enjoying how I work, why not leave 173 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: a review for the show in Apple podcasts or wherever 174 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: you listen to this show. I read every single review, 175 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: and thank you to hundreds of people who have already 176 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: left one. It really does make my day getting all 177 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: your lovely feedback on the work that I do. So 178 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: thank you. And there's it for today and I'll see 179 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: you next time.