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Speaker 1: All this week on the Happy Families podcast, it's been

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Speaker 1: a conversation about body image, following up from the third

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Speaker 1: episode of Parental Guidance on Channel nine. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: checked it out yet, you can stream it via replay

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Speaker 1: on nine Now could they Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded

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Speaker 1: parenting podcast, where Justin and Kylie Coulson are really really, really,

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Speaker 1: really really tough conversation. Today we're talking about eating disorders

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Speaker 1: and more specifically the impact of anarexia. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the stats ninety percent of teenagers have negative thoughts about

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Speaker 1: their bodies. We have far too many of our mainly

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Speaker 1: young women, although young men to a lesser degree, who

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Speaker 1: are really struggling with psychologically challenging issues around body image

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Speaker 1: that lead to in some cases, the very worst of outcomes. Kylie,

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Speaker 1: we were introduced to four new focus families.

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Speaker 2: Elvy and Sean.

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Speaker 3: We are authoritative parents.

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Speaker 4: We have high expectations on our children.

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Speaker 5: In the meantime, were set strict rules and boundaries.

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Speaker 3: Nick and Sophia where the positivity parents, where confidence is key.

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Speaker 1: Josh and Cassie.

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Speaker 3: We are the life school parents, and we use real

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Speaker 3: life experiences to educate our kids and Amandarin has Son.

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Speaker 2: We choose to parent the hard way. We don't take shortcuts.

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Speaker 6: It's hard on us for easing the fun for the kids.

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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Parental Guidance, we met an

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Speaker 1: incredible young woman who was gripped by this deadly disease

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Speaker 1: of the mind.

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Speaker 3: Force yourself to eat it, Ashley, yes, she can.

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Speaker 2: Sure you're punishing me. I'm not punishing you.

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Speaker 3: You are choosing to listen to the voice instead.

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Speaker 6: What is a voice saying right now?

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Speaker 5: So you need to do the opposite?

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Speaker 4: What does it.

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Speaker 5: Feel like to complete your meal? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Loves watching that. Watching Ashley Kylie, I I'm speechless.

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Speaker 4: Like the.

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Speaker 1: Pain, the difficulty, the challenge that this family has been

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Speaker 1: through in so many other families.

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Speaker 2: How do you even react to that?

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Speaker 6: As we've been going through each episode, obviously her scream

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Speaker 6: is part of your promo, and I've been trying to

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Speaker 6: work out what the noise was. It's been just really

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Speaker 6: I've been struggling to wrap my head around what that

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Speaker 6: noise was and to actually put it into context and

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Speaker 6: to see.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to fund the words.

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Speaker 6: Isn't it to see the immense struggle, like the depth

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Speaker 6: of struggle it was for her to just put food

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Speaker 6: in her mouth, yeah, and to have it there but

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Speaker 6: not be willing to swallow or like.

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Speaker 1: Just her mum that you can't let the voice win.

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh my goodness, how do you deal with that?

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Speaker 6: I think a challenge like that would literally test anybody

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Speaker 6: to their very core.

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Speaker 1: Every relationship, every relationship. So that was actually her parents

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Speaker 1: are Candle and Andrew. Ashley is now a healthy and

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Speaker 1: strong young woman. Nine years later she joined us on

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Speaker 1: the episode. It was Oh, it was such an inspiring conversation.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So we asked her how this battle

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Speaker 1: first started for her.

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Speaker 4: I started following these influences online that were posting photos

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Speaker 4: of their shopping trolleys. And I was looking to these

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Speaker 4: people that were seeming like they were happy when they

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Speaker 4: were going on a diet or when they were losing weight.

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Speaker 4: And so I was constantly being reinforced that who why

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Speaker 4: I was and what I looked like was not enough.

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Speaker 6: I know that as you were going through social media

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Speaker 6: and with the algorithms, you were just seeing this certain

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Speaker 6: image really dangerous diets.

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Speaker 4: I really wanted to then have a flat stomach. I

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Speaker 4: do all the seven minute workouts or the ad workouts,

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Speaker 4: and then the more I lost, the more validation I

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Speaker 4: got in the sense of or you look amazing, what

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Speaker 4: are you doing? You're so fit, you look great, And

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Speaker 4: it was feeding me like I was then striving for that,

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Speaker 4: and I was seeking that because it's like you're possessed.

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Speaker 2: Kennell became not a moment anymore.

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Speaker 1: She became a care which was a big task, and

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Speaker 1: then I became the parent for the other two kids

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Speaker 1: and look after the house.

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Speaker 3: Can you explain to all of us what it was

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Speaker 3: like at its worst? At its worst is that I

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Speaker 3: have met the devil. You know, you could physically see

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Speaker 3: Ashley eyes roll back and this different, demonized voice would

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Speaker 3: come forward. It was going to walk. We were basically

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Speaker 3: told to take a home. She's got the most extreme

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Speaker 3: eating disorder and probably the highest mortality rate, and you

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Speaker 3: just need to get food in, you know, as she

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Speaker 3: wouldn't even brush your cheeks. She wouldn't even drink water

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Speaker 3: because she thought it had calories in it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to be here. I didn't feel like

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Speaker 4: anybody loved me. I didn't feel like I was worthy

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Speaker 4: of being loved. And when I was admitted into hospital,

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Speaker 4: into a children's mental health war, you were on your own,

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Speaker 4: and you're like twelve or thirteen, and you've just got

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Speaker 4: no family. I had mom turn up every single day

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Speaker 4: at nine am and then be told to leave at night.

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Speaker 4: And for someone that thought that nobody loved her, but

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Speaker 4: to have her mum turn up every single day, while

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Speaker 4: there were other kids in there that had their mum

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Speaker 4: come drop them off and then never return, I thought, Wow,

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Speaker 4: I'm like wasting away my life so selfie. When I

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Speaker 4: have a mum and a family that's so willing to

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Speaker 4: fight for me. That's when I made the decision that

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Speaker 4: I'm going to give full recovery a go. And I mean,

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Speaker 4: here we are nine years later.

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Speaker 2: On Oh my goodness, that's a lot.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be back after the break and discuss

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Speaker 1: the science to look for if you concerned it all

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Speaker 1: about your child and how we can deal with this

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Speaker 1: as parents. Okay, so you've just heard Ashley's harrowing story

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Speaker 1: going to hell and back fighting anarexia. Her parents, Kendall

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Speaker 1: and Andrew just amazing people, Amazing people who saved Ashley

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Speaker 1: I think saved her life, certainly saved her from herself

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Speaker 1: in so many ways.

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Speaker 6: Kylie listening to Ashley's acknowledgment that before she went to hospital,

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Speaker 6: she honestly number one, didn't believe she was.

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Speaker 2: Lovable, oh my goodness, and.

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Speaker 6: Didn't feel loved. And you look at the immense care

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Speaker 6: and attention that her parents were giving to her in

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Speaker 6: spite of the way she felt. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 6: she had the stark contrast of being dropped off at

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Speaker 6: the hospital and seeing her mum come every single day

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Speaker 6: while other kids had been dropped off and didn't see

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Speaker 6: their parents at all, and that was her wake up call.

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Speaker 6: But I guess the thing that stands out to me

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Speaker 6: the most is even the very best of us can

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Speaker 6: find ourselves at a place where our kids feel unlovable,

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Speaker 6: feel unloved by us in spite of everything we're doing.

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Speaker 1: There's a I mean, I'm always talking about how kids

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Speaker 1: fell love time and talking about the important of connection,

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Speaker 1: feeling seen, heard and valued. But there's something that I

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Speaker 1: don't mention often and I probably should, and that is

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Speaker 1: that perception is reality. So perception is that we're doing

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Speaker 1: all that we can, but to our children, what's going

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Speaker 1: on in their minds? How are they perceiving our relationship

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Speaker 1: with them, How are they perceiving the connection, because we

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Speaker 1: know that when that relationship is solid and strong, they

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Speaker 1: tend to stay away from these challenging situations.

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Speaker 6: I guess the other thing to acknowledge, though, is just

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Speaker 6: like in the conversation we had in yesterday's episode about

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Speaker 6: the distortion of my reality when I looked in the mirror,

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Speaker 6: when our kids are starting to struggle with mental illness,

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Speaker 6: their reality is distorted. So we could be doing everything

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Speaker 6: right and I say that in inverted commas, but we

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Speaker 6: could literally be giving them every good thing. But as

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Speaker 6: they're spiraling down, their perception is so warped. It is

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Speaker 6: so lacking in realness. I don't know how has to

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Speaker 6: say it, and so I really just wanted to highlight

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Speaker 6: that if you find yourself in that situation, it's not

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Speaker 6: to say that you've done anything wrong, but we have

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Speaker 6: to find a way to help them out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the critical thing. If their perception is

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Speaker 1: creating the reality in their minds that the connection is

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Speaker 1: not there, finding a way to make the connection is

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Speaker 1: just that that becomes the number one job of parents.

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Speaker 6: Andrew's acknowledgment that Kendall literally became Ashley's career in those

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Speaker 6: couple of years while she was fighting this battle, mum

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Speaker 6: literally took on a twenty four to seven carer's role

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Speaker 6: and he had to pick up the pieces.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk warning signs. This is an

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Speaker 1: area that requires a high level of specialty, and I

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Speaker 1: haven't started in this area. I mean, I've got some

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Speaker 1: general things that I can be useful for in conversations

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Speaker 1: about anorexia and eating disorders, but it's actually not me,

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Speaker 1: it's not what I do. We do have somebody who

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Speaker 1: is a specialist in this area fifteen years of experience.

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Speaker 1: Gregory is an Illawara based psychologist who specializes in eating disorders.

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Speaker 1: She's also a mum of two and Christine joins us.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hi Christine, justin, Hi Kylie Christine.

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Speaker 6: We've got three questions for you in relation to this.

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Speaker 6: My first one is what other signs parents need to

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Speaker 6: look out for if they've got concerns.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, great question. I think that I'd probably break that

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Speaker 5: down into two sections. And what I really want to

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Speaker 5: focus on for you at this point is those early

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Speaker 5: warning signs because we know that treatment is so much

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Speaker 5: better if we can get it early. So some of

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Speaker 5: the things that you might see early on in the

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Speaker 5: piece is maybe your child is wearing really loose, baggy clothing.

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Speaker 5: So that could be for two reasons. One might be

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Speaker 5: to disguise some weight loss, but also because their skin

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Speaker 5: becomes a little bit sensitive and they prefer to wear

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Speaker 5: looser clothing. So that's one of the early things. Other

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Speaker 5: things you might know is not wanting to eat with

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Speaker 5: you at the family dinner table, or pushing food around,

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Speaker 5: or becoming particularly health conscious, which can get a bit

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Speaker 5: disguised between like, oh, we're really proud of our child

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Speaker 5: for wanting to eat healthy food and wanting to do

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Speaker 5: more exercise, but then that can go too far. So

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Speaker 5: if they're really avoiding things, like if they've always loved

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Speaker 5: chocolate and even though they're on a health kick, they're

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Speaker 5: still avoiding chocolate and it's their favorite, that should be

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Speaker 5: a little flag, you know, we should still be able

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Speaker 5: to have some balance there. And then obviously later on

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Speaker 5: like that, the weight losses is probably one of the

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Speaker 5: more significant things. Avoiding social outings, not wanting to go out,

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Speaker 5: and then the excessive exercise, so really prioritizing exercise over

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Speaker 5: everything else.

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Speaker 1: This seems insidious to me because as a parent who

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Speaker 1: wants children to be healthy and happy, seeing a child

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Speaker 1: making wise diet choices and getting physically fit and active,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's got to be a wonderfully rewarding thing

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Speaker 1: for both you and your child. And of course we

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Speaker 1: don't want to pathologize a child who wants to be

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Speaker 1: healthy either. So this is this is really tricky, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: There's got to be a whole web, a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of things that are all leaning in this in this direction.

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Speaker 5: You guys know your children the best, so if there's

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Speaker 5: some personality changes happening along with this, if they're being

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Speaker 5: really snappy at you, particularly around meal times, that they're

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Speaker 5: the sort of things that add to it other than

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Speaker 5: just healthy eating.

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Speaker 6: Christine, is it possible to offer general advice to parents

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Speaker 6: with such a complex reality.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, look, it is. It is really really complicated, and

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Speaker 5: for any parents that have been through this with their child,

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Speaker 5: they will know it is absolutely one of the hardest

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Speaker 5: things you can possibly go through. Aside from that, one

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Speaker 5: of the things that I would really say that's important

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Speaker 5: is patience, and it is essentially your job as a

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Speaker 5: parent to feed your child. So if they're at the

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Speaker 5: dinner table and refusing to eat, you need to have

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Speaker 5: all the time in the world to sit there with

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Speaker 5: them and encourage them and make sure they eat their food.

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Speaker 5: And you do it kindly, you do it firmly, and

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Speaker 5: you just make sure it happens. It's very, very difficult

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Speaker 5: because that could take hours, but you need to show

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Speaker 5: that eating disorder that you're stronger than it. You've got

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Speaker 5: more patience than it, you've got more time than it,

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Speaker 5: and it doesn't matter what it's telling your child to do,

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Speaker 5: You're going to be there and make sure they eat regardless.

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Speaker 1: I'm almost weeping as you say that, because that's what

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Speaker 1: we see in the episode. I mean, the interaction that

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Speaker 1: we see is precisely an extraordinarily patient mother saying we

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Speaker 1: are going to beat this voice. We're going to do

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes to get this food into you. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and I'm getting weepy just thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Just so profound. I love that advice.

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Speaker 5: The other thing that I think is always imperative. You

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Speaker 5: just reminded me as you talking about it, is one

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Speaker 5: of the things I would do is separate the eating

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Speaker 5: disorder voice from your child voice. So recognize that they're

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Speaker 5: two different things. Because when you're in the thick of this,

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Speaker 5: this isn't my child. They didn't behave like this, they

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Speaker 5: didn't have this attitude, and that is the eating disorder

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Speaker 5: voice that's coming through, And what you want to do

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Speaker 5: is talk to your child, not to the eating disorder.

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Speaker 6: Well, Christine, I'm not sure if this is a fair

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Speaker 6: question to ask, considering that each circumstance will be different

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Speaker 6: for different families. But I'm wondering if there are any

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Speaker 6: main drivers that we see across the board that would contribute.

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Speaker 2: Or create or create eating disorders.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question, and it's a really common

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Speaker 5: one that parents will often ask me is where did

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Speaker 5: this come from? How did my child end up with this?

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Speaker 5: And the reality is we don't know. So we're looking

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Speaker 5: at lots of DNA studies, we're looking at genetically. There

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Speaker 5: does seem to be a link. We do know that

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Speaker 5: there's certain personality styles that are more likely to fall

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Speaker 5: into these kind of habits. So if you're more of

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Speaker 5: that type a personality, you like to do things, when

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Speaker 5: you do it, you do it well, so if you're

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Speaker 5: going to lose weight, you're going to lose weight really well,

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Speaker 5: there's some things that do contribute, but I guess I

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Speaker 5: guess I would actually worn off looking too much at

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Speaker 5: what's caused it and looking at fixing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Again, it goes back to that whole We could pathologize

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Speaker 1: everything and say everything's a predictor of, or a cause of,

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Speaker 1: or a potential risk factor, and it's more about keeping

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Speaker 1: the kids healthy and safe.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, though, I know that.

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Speaker 1: Eating disorders existed before screens, but how much do you

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Speaker 1: think that screens and specifically social media have amplified or

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Speaker 1: magnified or exacerbated this issue.

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Speaker 5: I think what I see is that the screens and

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Speaker 5: the media and you know, back in the day used

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Speaker 5: to be magazines, all of that. I think what they

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Speaker 5: lead to is a dissatisfaction with body image. I think

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Speaker 5: when we start looking at the extremes of anorex nivosa,

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Speaker 5: blieming novosa, those factors, the incidents aren't necessarily going up

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Speaker 5: based on that. But what we do know is people

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Speaker 5: are less satisfied with their bodies. So it breeds more

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Speaker 5: of the diet culture, which then means that the eating

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Speaker 5: disorders can hide within that.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 6: I said I had three questions, but I actually have

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Speaker 6: another one for you. If parents are concerned, where do

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Speaker 6: they go to get the help that they need?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's really really important to get the right

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Speaker 5: medical attention. You'll end up with lots of appointments, but

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Speaker 5: it's important to get people that understand and know eating

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Speaker 5: disorders because, like you said before, justin like, some of

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Speaker 5: these qualities are really good. So if you get someone

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Speaker 5: that doesn't understand the pathology of an eating disorder, they

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Speaker 5: might be recommending things that are actually going to cause

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Speaker 5: harm to your child. So I would say the Butterfly

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Speaker 5: Foundation has a national register of gp psychiatrist, psychologists, dietitians,

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Speaker 5: So Butterfly dot org dot AU would be my recommendation

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Speaker 5: of where to go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're refers to We referred to them in

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Speaker 1: the show as well, so I'm really glad that you're

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Speaker 1: recommending them.

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Speaker 2: We think that they're great as well.

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Speaker 5: They are absolutely fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Christine Gregory is an Illa, Warror based psychologist who specializes

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Speaker 1: in eating disorders. I really appreciate your time, Christine. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for that. Tomorrow tomorrow on the pod, what are

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Speaker 1: the biggest moments unexpectedly when everything went sideways, something that

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Speaker 1: really captured everyone unawares. We'll be talking about that.

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Speaker 3: As life school parents, we think a good compliment is

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Speaker 3: one that comes from the heart and it's ris pretty.

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Speaker 2: How's a peg?

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Speaker 7: Don't we all?

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Speaker 6: Some nice?

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Speaker 5: Nice hair?

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Speaker 6: Is that so?

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Speaker 5: Hair?

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Speaker 3: Nice skin?

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Speaker 2: Nice skin?

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Speaker 7: I can't whether or not you believe that you're limiting

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Speaker 7: their opportunities for careers later Like you said, well, if

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Speaker 7: they want to be a doctor, they can be a doctor. Realistically,

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Speaker 7: I don't see that happening if they can't read.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast returns tomorrow, please join us for

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Speaker 1: what should be just a really riveting conversation.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate the work of Justin Rouland for Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: He's our producer.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is the executive producer of the podcast, and

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Speaker 1: Mmhammonds provides all the research and other support to make

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Speaker 1: the pod happen. If you'd like more information to make

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Speaker 1: your family happier, please visit us for more at happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com dot au and we will link to

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Speaker 1: all the resources to help with eating disorders and the

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Speaker 1: things we've talked about in this podcast in the show notes,