1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday, the eighteenth of June. 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm Billie for it, Simon's. 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: I'm Sam Kazlowski. 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Over the past week, you might have seen some commentary 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: around sunscreens online. This is all because of some research 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: consumer advocacy group Choicted, where it did some testing on 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: twenty different sunscreens to check if their claimed SBF matches 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: their actual SBF. The results indicated that many sunscreens allegedly 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: don't deliver on their SBF rating, but are those results accurate. 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: It's led to a lot of back and forth with 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: one brand in particular that we are going to explain today. 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: Billy. There are always stories working in the Daily OS 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: newsroom that I think are going to do unbelievably well 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: in terms of the engagement with the audience, and then 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: they don't. And then there are others that I don't 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: really pick to be heavy hitters, but really take off. 19 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: And this story goes into category B. The reaction from 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 2: the audience and the number of people who sent this 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 2: post when we put it on Instagram to a friend 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: was in the tens of thousands. But take me back 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: to where this story originates. 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of makes sense that it did so 25 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: well because it's something that impacts us all every day. 26 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: If you're someone who applies sunscreen every day, which I'm. 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: Sure you are so of course, of course, and you're right, 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: and I should have picked that this would be a 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: heavy up. But we here. Everyone makes mistakes. 30 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So the origins of this story. So last week, 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: the consumer group Choice released a new study that looked 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: into the levels of SBF on sunscreen brands in Australia, 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: and specifically, they were looking at what is the advertised 34 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: SBF on different sunscreen. 35 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: Bottles, so like fifty plus or exactly. 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: And then compare raring that to what is the actual 37 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: SBF when they do their own independent research into those 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: sunscreen bottles. 39 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Take me through what choices? You've said that a couple 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: of times. 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: Yes, So they are a consumer watchdog. They're Australia's leading 42 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: consumer advocacy group. But they're not a government body. They 43 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: are a not for profit organization and so their whole 44 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: aim is to advocate for and also protect Australian consumers 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: and they do that by trying to hold different industries 46 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: and companies to account. One thing that they are quite 47 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: famous for that we report on every year at the 48 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: Daily Ods is the Shonky Awards. 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: The Shonkies do you know them love the Shonkys. 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: So they are kind of like this mock awards ceremony 51 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: where they recognize that year the companies or the products 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: that they perceive to be the worst ones of that year. 53 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: So one year, for example, I think it was about 54 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: two years ago, when the cost of living crisis was 55 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: well and truly the biggest story of the year, and 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: they gave the Shonky Award to Colson Woolworths because they 57 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: said that those supermarket brands were profiting off this cost 58 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: of living crisis. 59 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: And other times they've done products that you'd see on 60 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: infomercials that say that if you use this mechanical bike 61 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: that you can pedal under your work desk, youn'll lose 62 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: forty kilos and all that kind of stuff. But Choice 63 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: does a lot of really interesting work as well. I mean, 64 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: I use them, for example, when I'm looking for a 65 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: new vacuum to buy or a coffee machine. And the 66 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: impartiality of their reviews and the way in which their 67 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: reviews are perceived by the market. And you often see 68 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: little stickers on products in stores saying reviewed as the 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: number one kettle by Choice magazine. 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: Yes, so I think all this to say that Choice 71 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: is a very well respected Australian consumer organization. 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: Yep, They've been around for a while and this is 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: not the first Choice investigation that has made headlines. 74 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: Definitely not. 75 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: Before we go on to this story. This is all 76 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: about SPF, this quality in sunscreen that the bottle says 77 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: how much of it is in it, And now that 78 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: I actually stop and think about it, I don't really 79 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: know what exactly that is. Can you talk me through 80 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: why I care that there's fifty plus or thirty plus 81 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: or whatever the number is. 82 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So SBF stands for sun protection factor. I feel 83 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: like that is a typical trivia question. 84 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: Fantastic if you. 85 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: Are a trivia fan. I feel like that will absolutely 86 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: come up one day. What does SBF stand for? And 87 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: now you'll know that the answer is sun protection factor. Now, 88 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: SPF is measuring how much it protects your skin from sunburn. 89 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: So when sunscreen is marked SBF thirty, that means it 90 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: can increase your skin's sunburn threshold. Technically, what it means is, 91 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: say it takes about five minutes for your skin to burn. 92 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: SBF thirty means that it will take thirty times longer 93 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: than that to burn, So you've got thirty times longer 94 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: to not burn. Does that make sense? 95 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So if it's an SBF forty or fifty, the 96 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: length of time so you're out in the sun gets longer. 97 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: Yes. And another way to look at it is that 98 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: SPF thirty shield skin from about ninety seven percent of 99 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: the sun's UVB rays, which is what all sunscreen is 100 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: protecting from, and then SBF fifty is protecting from about 101 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: ninety eight percent. No sunscreen that has ever been created 102 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: can protect your skin from one hundred percent of the 103 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: sun's rays. 104 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: And I'm sure there are actual chemical guidelines to what 105 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: makes something SPF thirty or fifty. 106 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Yes. I will also say that these SBF ratings are 107 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: applicable in like a perfectly controlled lab, but in reality, 108 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: when the everyday person is using them, they might not 109 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: apply a thick enough layer, It might be too thin. 110 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: They might not reapply it, so. 111 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: They might go for a swim before their parents tell 112 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: them to wait after they on. 113 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: Sunscreen sounds like that's happened to you before saying I'm. 114 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: Getting some skeletons out of the closet here. 115 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: It's good all of that to say, I guess it 116 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: doesn't end up protecting you to the exact amount on 117 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: the bottle, And it is also a good minder to 118 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: always apply a thick layer and to often reapply, especially 119 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: after a swim. 120 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: So there are these legal and medical almost categorizations of 121 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: sunscreen based on their protection qualities from the sun, and 122 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: Choice decided to look into these SPF ratings of some 123 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: of Australia's most well known sunscreens. What exactly did they 124 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: find then? 125 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so they tested twenty sunscreens, all of which claimed 126 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: to have an SBF rating of fifty or more fifty plus, 127 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: and they did that through an independent lab in Australia. 128 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: So this wasn't the people at Choice doing these tests. 129 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: It was an independent lab. Of those twenty, only four 130 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: actually matched their SBF claims, and those sunscreens were by 131 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: the brand's Cancer Council Kids. Although it was just one 132 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: of their sunscreens that passed the test, some of their 133 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: other ones were found to have lower SBF ratings than 134 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: were claimed. There was also laroche Pose Mecha Cosmetica, and 135 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: and also Nutrogena, although again it was only one of 136 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: their products. Another one did not meet the SBF claims. 137 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: But again there were only four of the twenty sunscreens 138 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: tested that kind of passed this test. I'm not going 139 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: to go through all the different sunscreens and the results 140 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: because I imagine that would be quite a boring podcast, 141 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: but it will add a link to Choice's findings in 142 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: the show notes if anyone does want to go have 143 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: a look at the specific products. 144 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so basically there are sunscreen brands that say they 145 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: contain a certain amount of the SPF qualities that upon 146 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: further investigation, might not. But there's one brand that is 147 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: causing a bit more controversy. 148 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, So the sunscreen with the worst rating once 149 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: it was tested in this research was Ultraviolet's Lean Screen 150 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: SPF fifty plus Mineral matifying Zinc skin screen. Now, that 151 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: product Choice said returned in SBF of four. So the 152 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: product says that it provides SBF protection of fifty plus, 153 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: but Choice is saying that it actually only provides an 154 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: SBF protection of form. Now, Choice said that when they 155 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: got these results back, they were so surprised by that result, 156 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: specifically from ultraviolet, so they decided to send a different 157 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: batch of the ultraviolet sunscreen to a different lab in 158 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: Germany and those results, they said, it came back with 159 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: an SBF of five, which they said pretty much matched 160 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: what they initially did find. 161 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: Got it. I want to get to that ultraviolet case 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: and look at their responses to that, but first let's 163 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: hear from our sponsor. Okay, So, Billy, I imagine Ultraviolet 164 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: was not pleased with this declaration from Choice that there 165 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: was an astoundingly low level of SPF in their sunscreen products. 166 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is an understatement to say that. 167 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: They were not pleased. They completely rejected these findings from Choice. 168 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: So they said that if this product was applied sufficiently, 169 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: then a testing result of SBF four is scientifically impossible. 170 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: That is their words. Now they put out a statement. 171 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: They've also put out a video. Their statement was quite lengthy, 172 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: and again if you want to read it and fold, 173 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: the link to this will be in the show notes, 174 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: but I'll read out some of what they said. They said, 175 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: lean screen has been on the market for five years. 176 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: In twenty nine countries, and we have not received a 177 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: single substantiated claim of sunburn during use, reinforcing our confidence 178 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: in the testing we have. If the Choice results were 179 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: at all feasible, we would have had hundreds of cases 180 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: of reported sunburn and skin damage while using this product 181 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: in real life situations. 182 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: So categorically denying these fundings. Yes. 183 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: Now. Adding to this statement, one of the founders of Ultraviolet, 184 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: Avid Chandler Matthews, also put out an eight minute video 185 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: explaining their thoughts on this, and one thing that I 186 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: thought was interesting in explaining how this could have happened 187 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: is the decanting process. Here's what she said. 188 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 3: Obviously, I've seen all of the press about the Choice testing, 189 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 3: and I guess I just wanted to give you a 190 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 3: bit of an understanding of what's happened, how this could happen, 191 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: why we're disputing these claims. I think, I guess my 192 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 3: concern with this whole thing is that people now no 193 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: longer trust any sunscreen. It's not just about us, it's 194 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: just about you know, knowing that the consumer can trust 195 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: the sunscreens that they're wearing. 196 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: That's an interesting point that she's raised. How did Choice respond, 197 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: particularly about that decanting point. 198 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: So after all this happened, Choice basically doubled down on 199 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: the testing that they did, and on Monday this week 200 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: they released the details of all of its lab tests 201 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: and read that decanting point. They confirmed that they did 202 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: that to ensure that this was line testing, so to 203 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: remove any bias in the research process, so. 204 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: All that the investigators couldn't see the bottle that the 205 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: sunscreen was in, they could just see sunscreen as sunscreen 206 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: Bay got it. 207 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: So the Choice CEO, Ashley de Silver, said to facil 208 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: pioitate blind testing. All twenty sunscreen products were decanted into 209 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: amber glass jars, sealed, labeled and transported in accordance with 210 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: strict instructions. The CEO also went on to say that 211 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: clearly there is discrepancy here between their research choices research 212 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: and that of ultraviolets, and so they said that they 213 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: believe that this discrepancy should warrant further investigation by the TGA, 214 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: which is the regulator for all medicines and medical devices 215 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: in Australia. 216 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: And that's a good point. The Therapeutics Goods Administration, they're 217 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: the ones who actually are empowered by Australian law to 218 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: make sure that it's not just a finding from an 219 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: investigation from a publisher and the product reviewer, but natural 220 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 2: a promise to Australians that what they're buying on the 221 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: shelf is actually the product it says it is exactly. 222 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: And that was also part of Ultraviolet's defense. They were 223 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: saying that Choice isn't the regulator in this space, that 224 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: is the TGA, and they say that they have always 225 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: complied with any regulations that TGA has imposed. Sure, now 226 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: the TGA has also entered this chat. They released a 227 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: statement last week acknowledging inconsistencies in SBF testing and they 228 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: noted that testing on humans can be highly subjective. Now 229 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: they have said that they will investigate Choices findings further. 230 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: So I guess now we will just wait and see 231 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: what happens there. 232 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: Billy is a final question. I'm really interested to get 233 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: your take on whether this story means that we should 234 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: be trusting sunscreen at all. And let's have that discussion 235 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: before we wrap up, because it's a really important one 236 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: to have. It's not just Ultraviolet that had this results finding, 237 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: it was the overwhelming majority of sunscreens on the shelf. 238 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: How do you want me, as somebody listening to this 239 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: podcast to be thinking about sunscreen right now. 240 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: As someone who applies sunscreen every. 241 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: Day and waits before we go swimming, yes to let 242 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: it sink in. 243 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: So Chos did address this. They said, if you're using 244 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: one of these sunscreens in our testing, you should continue 245 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: to do so. They're saying even the ones that came 246 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: back as not having the SBF rating that they claim 247 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: to or allegedly not having the SBF rating that they 248 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: claim to, that you shouldn't just throw it out. You 249 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: should still keep it. So they specifically said, don't throw 250 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: out what you have, just be sure to apply regularly 251 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: and extensively. I think ultimately with this, the TGA is, 252 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: like we said, going to investigate it and if that 253 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: results in more transparency around the testing process for sunscreen, 254 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: that probably can only be a good thing. 255 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 2: Well, it will likely lead to a higher quality product 256 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 2: in some classiness, which is good for Australians. I mean, 257 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: skin cancer is one of the biggest threats to Australian 258 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: lives and it's really important I think for journalism when 259 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: covering this story to ensure that it doesn't send the 260 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: signal to people that sunscreen is not to be believed 261 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: and sunscreen is not to be definitely, and that's what 262 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: Choice said that this is still an important part of 263 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: what is for many Australians a daily ritual, but there's 264 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 2: some transparency and accountability steps that we can all take 265 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: to ensure that it's doing exactly what says it would. 266 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: I think that sums it up perfectly. 267 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Billy, and thank you for listening 268 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: to this podcast. We've thrown those links to the Choice 269 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: investigation and the full response from Ultraviolet in today's show notes. 270 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your headphones with the 271 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: headlines in the afternoon. Until then, have a great date. 272 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 273 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,239 Speaker 2: Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 274 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 275 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 276 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: Strait Island and nations. 277 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 278 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: both past and present.