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Speaker 1: With the passing, of course, of the legislation overnight, questions

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Speaker 1: are being raised about the impact for Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is the president of the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association, Paul Mcha. Good morning to you, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie. How are you pretty good?

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Speaker 1: Paul? How are officers feeling about the legislation change overnight

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Speaker 1: when it comes to bail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know, I think, generally speaking step in

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Speaker 2: the right direction. I think people have, you know, for

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Speaker 2: a long time been waiting for some sort of an

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Speaker 2: amendment which you know really starts to say, well, we're

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Speaker 2: here to protect the community and put the community in

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Speaker 2: the safety of you know, certainly our members as well,

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Speaker 2: who sadly deal with these sorts of edged weapon or

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Speaker 2: offensive weapon incidents on an almost daily basis. So it's

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Speaker 2: good to see these changes and no doubt, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's taken a while, but we're later getting in the

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Speaker 2: right direction.

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Speaker 1: We's sort of heard a few times from the Minister

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Speaker 1: for Police on the show on Friday during the week

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Speaker 1: that was you know that it's the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: who determine in a lot of instances whether somebody gets

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Speaker 1: bailed or not if they've been involved, you know, in

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Speaker 1: an offense with a wedge with an edged weapon? Is

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Speaker 1: that the case, Paul? What's the go here? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Obviously, you know when police take somebody into custody and

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Speaker 2: you know, they've got a set of rules that they

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Speaker 2: go by in terms of presumption for bail or whether

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Speaker 2: it's for or against or neutral, and that all depends on,

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes the seriousness of the offense. You know,

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Speaker 2: if that person has been in trouble for that sort

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Speaker 2: of an offense previously, whether they were using weapons.

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Speaker 1: Et cetera.

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Speaker 2: But you know, they can only operate within the legislation

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Speaker 2: they're provided and the guidance they're provided through Parliament. So

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Speaker 2: you know, with these changes, the impending changes, of course,

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Speaker 2: that'll that will change the way they operate in terms

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Speaker 2: of the bail for those individuals.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it will make things more difficult for

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Speaker 1: them or will it actually make things a bit easier.

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Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, our jobs to certainly bring them before the court,

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Speaker 2: so whether they're whether they're granted bail or not, and

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Speaker 2: whether they're remanded to appear the next day at court,

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Speaker 2: then it's ultimately the court who makes that final decision

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Speaker 2: whether we remind them or not. So ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 2: our job, we just bring them before the courts and

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Speaker 2: what happens from there happens.

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Speaker 1: Paul, do you think that the changes are going to

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Speaker 1: see sort of any additional stress on our Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: police because you know, you and I have spoken on

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Speaker 1: so many occasions over the last year about our police

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Speaker 1: numbers and the morale of the Territory police. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, often, you know, certainly the feedback we've had, you know,

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Speaker 2: when bail changes were made a few years ago, and

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Speaker 2: obviously it feels like a bit of a you know,

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Speaker 2: a spin cycle where you're arresting someone, you bring them

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Speaker 2: in their bailed, you're arresting them the next day, and

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Speaker 2: and and continue continues on in that vein. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we're hoping that these sorts of changes might reduce that

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Speaker 2: impact and the burden on police and of course reducing

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Speaker 2: crime overall for repetitive offenders. So it will, no doubt

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Speaker 2: that strain, but ultimately, you know, they will continue to

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Speaker 2: do the job they do, and that is to take

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Speaker 2: people off the streets that shouldn't be on the streets.

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Speaker 2: And then the courts will determine whether they remain in

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Speaker 2: custody or not.

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Speaker 1: Well, from your perspective, do the changes go far enough,

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Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of discussion about you know,

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Speaker 1: what weapons are included, what aren't included, do they go

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Speaker 1: far enough?

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Speaker 2: Look, it would have been obviously ideal. I think it's

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Speaker 2: it would be naive to suggest that you know, things

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Speaker 2: such as screwdrivers and hammers and things like that that

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Speaker 2: are readily available in the community, when used in the

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Speaker 2: wrong manner and for the not for the intended purpose

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Speaker 2: of what they're made for, can be as deadly as

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Speaker 2: any edged weapon you'll find out there. We know one

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Speaker 2: of our own offices just a few years ago in

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Speaker 2: a remote station, was stabbed in the neck with a

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Speaker 2: screwdriver and narrowly missed his main artery, And we know

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Speaker 2: that can be a deadly weapon, just like any other

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Speaker 2: knife you find, you know, out there in the community. So,

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, we feel they should have gone further.

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Speaker 2: We really urge the government to listen to the senior

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Speaker 2: police executive who are obviously subject matter experts when it

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Speaker 2: comes to dealing with these offenses that are committed almost daily,

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Speaker 2: and of course we would have liked to have seen

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Speaker 2: its stronger in terms of including offensive weapons.

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, I want to ask you, because the discussions

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Speaker 1: sort of now moved towards whether we're going to see

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Speaker 1: an increased number of prisoners or an increased number of offenders,

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Speaker 1: I should say, in those correctional facilities. From my understanding,

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Speaker 1: we do currently have prisoners being housed in the Palmerston Watchhouse.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that your intel as well?

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Speaker 2: Look, initially my understanding is that was the case and

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Speaker 2: it was creating all sorts of issues when you've when

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Speaker 2: you've got police lined up there as the only police

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Speaker 2: operational watchhouse in the Greater Dalwen area, it was creating

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Speaker 2: all sorts of issues. And minus now is corrections have

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Speaker 2: moved to the Darwen l Darwen watch House in Mitchell

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Speaker 2: Street there and of course there's also obviously a third

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Speaker 2: option in Darwen. There is an operational watchhouse out of

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Speaker 2: Barron as well, which of course can be used for overflow. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, So is that at the Petere McCauley Center.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's try that was constructed some years ago under

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Speaker 2: the federal detention funding model where we had the old MPG.

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Speaker 2: If you remember that model was floating around for a while.

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Speaker 2: So there is a fully operational watchouse out of Barron

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Speaker 2: as well, and no doubt that that is used from

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Speaker 2: time to time as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have heard that there has been work to

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Speaker 1: sort of anticipate that that may need to be stood up.

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Speaker 2: Are you being told that, Yeah, yeah, we are. I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously that's a fully operational watchhouse. I know they had

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Speaker 2: that on standby as well through the COVID pandemic. If

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Speaker 2: there was in a COVID outbreak, they had that on

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Speaker 2: standby as well. So look at it is a fully

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Speaker 2: operational watchhouse obviously, you know, not idea all to have

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Speaker 2: to keep using them as corrections facilities. That that's a

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Speaker 2: problem in itself because now we're in that unfortunate position still, Katie,

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Speaker 2: where we've got our police driving all the way to

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Speaker 2: Palmerston from from the Darwin and Northern suburbs to lodge

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Speaker 2: their prisoners and that's taking them away from those areas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul tell me as well. I mean when we

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Speaker 1: have got when we have got offenders, then in the watchhouses.

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Speaker 1: Look what period of time from your understanding, could they

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Speaker 1: be in there for and are they then looked after

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Speaker 1: by correctional services or are they looked after by the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, my understanding is, I mean, obviously some of

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Speaker 2: them are there for their entirety of their demand period,

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Speaker 2: whatever that may be. I don't think it's for extremely

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Speaker 2: long periods of time, but they're not designed to be

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Speaker 2: a corrections facility there for short term you know, purposes

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Speaker 2: only really, but certainly our understanding is Alice Springs has

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Speaker 2: been impacted from time to time with police being expected

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Speaker 2: to look after corrections prisoners down there. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's happening at the moment, but that certainly has had

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Speaker 2: an impact on police resourcing. I think here in Darwin

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Speaker 2: the majority of corrections prisoners are being monitored by correction

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Speaker 2: staff at the Darwin Watchhouse. So that's my understanding.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me as well, look do they you know,

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Speaker 1: are we in a situation where youths are being held

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Speaker 1: in the watchhouses as well or is it just mostly adults?

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't think any. I think you very much

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Speaker 2: a last resort to have them detained in those facilities.

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Speaker 2: I think police do everything they possibly can and to

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Speaker 2: make sure they're not in custody so it's mainly adult offenders,

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Speaker 2: but of course there will be times when they are

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Speaker 2: youth offenders there when those offenses have just been committed,

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Speaker 2: no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Now, just a very quick one pole and this has

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Speaker 1: literally just been announced this morning. The territory government have

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Speaker 1: said that they're undertaking progressive alcohol buybacks basically. So what

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Speaker 1: they're looking at doing is this voluntary buyback scheme of

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Speaker 1: grocery store liquor licenses. What do you make of it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously, you know, I heard Bill's comments previously,

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Speaker 2: and obviously we don't want to impede on people's right

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Speaker 2: to have a business, but we do have an enormous

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Speaker 2: amount of liquor out let's take away liquor out let's

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Speaker 2: for a relatively small town of Darwin order. But ultimately,

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Speaker 2: you know, again, you know, there are people that are

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Speaker 2: just doing the wrong thing once they purchase that alcohol,

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Speaker 2: all their committing crimes to access that alcohol. So that's

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Speaker 2: not the fault of the business owner. But obviously it's

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Speaker 2: a voluntary scheme, so it's not compulsory, and we'll just

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Speaker 2: see how it rolls out.

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Speaker 1: Well, Bill, I mean not Bill's we're talking about Bill

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Speaker 1: Paul mque mate. It's always good to catch up with you.

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Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you so very

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Speaker 1: much for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Good on you, Katie Jank you