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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.

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Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers Now Gooday.

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Speaker 1: This is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy Families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot a U and dad to six daughters,

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Speaker 1: one no, two, oh my goodness. Two of them are

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Speaker 1: in their twenties, one's about to be and then I

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Speaker 1: have a twelve ye I have a teenager, and I

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Speaker 1: have a soon to be tween she's about to turn nine.

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Speaker 1: So to help me to navigate these last three kids

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Speaker 1: moving into adolescents and getting on with their lives, I

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Speaker 1: brought in a friend, somebody who I really love to

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Speaker 1: talk to and learn from, somebody who has wisdom just

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Speaker 1: burgeoning outside of her ears. Her name is Michelle Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: If you follow me on Facebook, you will have noticed

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Speaker 1: Michelle's name come up fairly frequently. Michelle's worked with me

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Speaker 1: on summits, She's been on the podcast before, and Michelle

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Speaker 1: has a brand new book out.

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Speaker 3: It's called Tweens What Kids Need Now Before the Teenage Years,

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Speaker 3: Navigating friendships, moods, technology, boundaries, body image, and the Road Ahead.

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Speaker 1: Hey Michelle, thanks for being on the Happy Families podcast again.

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Speaker 2: It's great to see you, doctor, Justin Colson. Good to

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Speaker 2: see you too. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So tell me about tweens because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: lump tweens and teens together, but developmentally we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a completely different experience when it comes to raising these kids.

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Speaker 1: What's the age group for a tween, what's going on

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Speaker 1: developmentally for them? And why do we need to distinguish

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Speaker 1: between tweens and teens.

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Speaker 2: I started writing this book for parents of tweens and

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Speaker 2: teens together because that's a typical narrative. We sort of

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Speaker 2: follow the transition. But the more I dug into the

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Speaker 2: research and really listen to what families were telling me,

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Speaker 2: I just had to narrow my message down. And so

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Speaker 2: a big message of this book is that tweens are

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Speaker 2: not the new teenagers. Despite the teen like issues they

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Speaker 2: might be facing, they actually experienced them in a completely

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Speaker 2: different way than our teenagers do. So even if it

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Speaker 2: is the big issues like vaping and self harm, they're

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Speaker 2: approaching them with childlike cognition and greater trust with adults,

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Speaker 2: And there's so much togetherness in those tween years, those

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Speaker 2: nine to twelve years. Parents are like feel like they

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Speaker 2: have a little shadow around them all the time, and

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Speaker 2: it's that beautiful togetherness that we really want to tap into.

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Speaker 1: Michelle, I love what you're saying here. I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you an unexpected question. As you're talking about that,

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Speaker 1: the thought popped into my mind. I've said it myself,

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Speaker 1: and I've heard so many parents say it. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're nine going on nineteen, that's it. Yeah, But my

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Speaker 1: sense from what you're describing about this developmental period is

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Speaker 1: that they're not they're nine going on ten, they're not

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Speaker 1: ready to be a teenager. They are actually, even though

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Speaker 1: it feels like we're not ready for it. They're just

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Speaker 1: developing normally and healthily if we're setting up the environment right,

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Speaker 1: and the best.

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Speaker 2: Way to support them is to be present right now

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Speaker 2: and understand what's going on in the brains right now.

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Speaker 2: And this is something that's really been lost in research.

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Speaker 2: Our kids have sort of been a bit neglected because

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Speaker 2: we've focused on the early years and then we focused

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Speaker 2: on them when they become the troubled teenagers. But there

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Speaker 2: hasn't been a lot of research around that nine to

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Speaker 2: twelve age. The Murdoch Children's Research Institute have some some

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Speaker 2: fantastic work in this area and what's starting to come

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Speaker 2: to light is that kids' brains are on high speed.

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Speaker 2: They're like a tree that's branches are reaching far and wide,

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Speaker 2: and the experiences and the environments that we put around

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Speaker 2: them actually help that growth during this stage. It's the

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Speaker 2: most rapid stage of growth since toddlehood. And if you

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Speaker 2: think about that, that's pretty impressive. Like they're moldable, they're

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Speaker 2: responsive to their environments, they're adaptive, and there's this really

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Speaker 2: significant restructuring and reorganizing of their brain in preparation for

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Speaker 2: the teenage years. So they sometimes feel quite overwhelmed, they

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Speaker 2: feel exhaust they get this accelerated growth in gusts. And

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Speaker 2: it's not just about their physical and biological changes. Their emotional, social, sexual,

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Speaker 2: cognitive changes are happening at the same life altering pace.

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Speaker 2: So this is a big time in their life. They

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Speaker 2: need us beside them.

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Speaker 1: So let me hit you with a quick lightning round

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Speaker 1: on those changes. I'm talking one or two sentence answers

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Speaker 1: for each of these domains. Let's start with social. When

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Speaker 1: you're atween, what's happening socially that's different to what had

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Speaker 1: happened prior to the age of nine.

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Speaker 2: Perspective taking. They're starting to understand that other people have

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Speaker 2: their own mind and can think differently than they do.

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Speaker 2: The first time they realize that someone might not like them,

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Speaker 2: like it's a light bulb moment for them. This is

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Speaker 2: a big shock to their system. There's a huge amount

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Speaker 2: of comparisons. There's a huge amount of transitions. We've got

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Speaker 2: our kids developing at different rates, which makes for all

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Speaker 2: sorts of movement in friendships, which can be really hard

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Speaker 2: for them to handle.

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Speaker 1: You've used the word movement. So let's go to the

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Speaker 1: physical domain next. When it comes to twins, what are

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Speaker 1: the biggest physical changes bearing in mind that they're still

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Speaker 1: not quite adolescents.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's look at it as there's so many under

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Speaker 2: the bonnet changes that happen, Like the roots in the

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Speaker 2: tree that we talk about, it's expanding behind the scenes

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Speaker 2: before we see that first pubic heut. So we can't

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Speaker 2: think of puberty and their growth like this unitary event

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Speaker 2: like they've hit puberty because you know, they're starting to

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Speaker 2: get their periods or whatever. The hormones start rising in

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Speaker 2: their body between eight and nine. So they've got these

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Speaker 2: changes happening internally. And what I think we've missed with

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Speaker 2: this age group is we don't always correlate behavior to

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Speaker 2: that development. We miss it so I think that we're

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Speaker 2: being naughty or bad, and we're very easy correlate it

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Speaker 2: with teenagers, but not with tweens.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating last one, No, I've got two more cognitively in

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Speaker 1: terms of brain development. You've touched on this already, but

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Speaker 1: if you were to lightning around one or two sentences,

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Speaker 1: what's actually going on from a cognitive The ability to

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Speaker 1: think about things point.

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Speaker 2: Of view so important twins. If they're rigid, they're very concrete.

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Speaker 2: They try and understand new information by linking it to

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Speaker 2: their parents' ideas or things they really have a solid

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Speaker 2: grasp on. As they get older, they're going to try

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Speaker 2: and join those dots to all sorts of things beyond

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Speaker 2: our family, beyond our ideas, and they're going to be

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Speaker 2: freer thinkers. What happens in this stage of growth is

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Speaker 2: they look to us as the source, and if we

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Speaker 2: don't be the source, someone else is going to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, usually Google or a friend in the playground that

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Speaker 1: doesn't know nearly as much as or nearly as healthy

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Speaker 1: things as we might. The last one for the lightning round.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you probably want to go a little bit

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Speaker 1: deeper on this one, So let's go there. Self esteem.

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Speaker 1: What happens with kids and the way they view themselves,

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Speaker 1: their identity development. I guess as they go through these

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Speaker 1: tween years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. I surveyed sixteen hundred parents and one hundred percent,

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Speaker 2: justin one hundred percent said to me that self esteem

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Speaker 2: and confidence was their most pressing concern. And when I

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Speaker 2: really dug into the comments and started to really listen

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Speaker 2: to what they were saying, they were telling me that

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Speaker 2: kids were starting to pull back rather than advance, and

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Speaker 2: they were starting to get very self conscious because they

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Speaker 2: were aware of other people's perspective of them. Isn't this interesting?

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Speaker 2: So taking a present into a party became a very

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Speaker 2: big deal. Wearing a collared shirt to a wedding caused

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Speaker 2: a massive meltdown. And so parents are watching on thinking

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Speaker 2: what's going on with my kid? And if I can

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Speaker 2: say anything up front as reassurance, self esteem follows a

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Speaker 2: very clear trajectory. When they're younger, they have this sort

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Speaker 2: of over the top and inflated view of themselves. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're going to be a pilot and an Olympian before Sunday.

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Speaker 2: But as they get older, they start to realize that

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Speaker 2: it's not realistic and their flaws in comparison to other

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Speaker 2: people become a lot stronger. So that is comparison's kicking.

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Speaker 2: And I always say to kids, you are what you

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Speaker 2: are looking for. This is going to take some time,

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Speaker 2: but there's that in a blueprint inside of you that

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Speaker 2: you are searching for right now, and I think a

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Speaker 2: big part of the tween is is helping them explore

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Speaker 2: that blueprint.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what I'm hearing is this is the time where

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Speaker 1: the foundations of what their future identity development will become.

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Speaker 1: This is this is such a pivotal time. I'm speaking

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Speaker 1: with Michelle Mitchell. She is the author of Tweens, What

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Speaker 1: Kids Need Now Before the Teenage Years. It's the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families podcast, the podcast for the type of parent who

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Speaker 1: just wants answers now. Loving our conversation Michelle Mitchell, the

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Speaker 1: author of Tweens What Kids Need Now Before the Teenage Years.

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Speaker 1: This is a time nine to twelve where kids suddenly

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Speaker 1: become I'm going to say, immersed in technolology and they

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Speaker 1: start pushing boundaries. Technically, we know that kids aren't supposed

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Speaker 1: to be on social media and all that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing until they're thirteen. But anyone who works in and

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Speaker 1: around schools talks to kids often knows that a vast proportion,

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Speaker 1: far too high a proportion of these kids aged between

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Speaker 1: nine and twelve are on Instagram and TikTok and snapchat

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Speaker 1: and everything else as well. Can you talk to me

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Speaker 1: a bit about what you discovered in your research about

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Speaker 1: the exposure that our nine to twelve year old tweens

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Speaker 1: are having to technology and how it's affecting them.

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Speaker 2: When I surveyed between themselves, they gave me five key messages,

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Speaker 2: and one of those messages was you are missing stuff.

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Speaker 2: So what they're saying to us as parents is we're

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Speaker 2: growing up quicker than you realize. You're a step behind

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Speaker 2: what's happening. And when I speak in schools around staying

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Speaker 2: safe online and anything around unsafe people, pedophiles, pornography comes

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Speaker 2: into the discussion. I will always have kids come to

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Speaker 2: me afterwards to have conversations with me that they haven't

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Speaker 2: felt comfortable having with their parents, and that breaks my

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Speaker 2: heart really to think that they're coming to me as

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Speaker 2: a complete stranger in their life. Thinking that I'll understand

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Speaker 2: what's going on in their world more than their parents do.

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Speaker 2: And when they're tweens, they have this innate curiosity that

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Speaker 2: starts to surface, and we need to match that with

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Speaker 2: I guess, safeguarding their journey. But also there are conversations

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Speaker 2: if we are not prepared to talk to them about

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Speaker 2: pedophiles and pornography. Are they old enough to be online?

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Speaker 2: That would be my very very big challenged parents. And yes,

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Speaker 2: we need to bring the conversation in an age appropriate

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Speaker 2: way to our kids. But we need to be having

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Speaker 2: this conversation because they certainly are in the playground and.

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Speaker 1: That's a provocative and important idea. They're online, they're doing it,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, no parent wants to be told

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Speaker 1: that they're a step behind they're nine year old. But

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Speaker 1: I think that that visual is absolutely spot on. The

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Speaker 1: other thought that I had as you were saying that

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Speaker 1: is with my daughter about to turn nine, we're just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks off now. We were walking along the

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Speaker 1: beach the other day, Michelle, and she was walking behind

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Speaker 1: me and she said this thing that really struck me,

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Speaker 1: and I think that it will resonate with you, especially

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Speaker 1: based on what we've been talking about. She's walking behind

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Speaker 1: me and I hear this beautiful little voice pipe up

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Speaker 1: and she says, Hey, Dad. I said, ah, huh, I'm

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Speaker 1: walking in your footsteps. And I just went, oh, I

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Speaker 1: mean she's not meaning it at all in the way

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Speaker 1: that I'm hearing it. But as a parent right at

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Speaker 1: this age, like you said, if we kind of bring

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Speaker 1: this conversation full circle, we are right in this special

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Speaker 1: time where they still really really they're not embarrassed to

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Speaker 1: say that they want to be close to us. They're

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Speaker 1: not trying to walk in front or behind because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to be seen with us. They're not intentionally

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Speaker 1: trying to differentiate and individuate from us like they will

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Speaker 1: in the teen years. If there was one final thing

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Speaker 1: that you could share with parents to help them to

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Speaker 1: build that connection, to establish that foundation, to set things

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Speaker 1: up now before the teenage years, what's your real take

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Speaker 1: home message from the book, tweins?

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Speaker 2: I hope I can explain this. As much as it

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Speaker 2: hits my heart, I think we need to learn to

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Speaker 2: flip it. As much as we don't want our children

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Speaker 2: to grow up, I think there's something in our children

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Speaker 2: that oftentimes doesn't want to grow up, and the number

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Speaker 2: one reason is they're scared of losing our connection with us.

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Speaker 2: And it came through all of the survey comments that

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Speaker 2: kids were not wanting to be a pain to their parents.

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Speaker 2: They're not wanting to be argumentative like their older brothers

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Speaker 2: and sisters. They don't want to lose their mum and

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Speaker 2: dad's love by growing up. And sometimes our kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: they make mistakes, they start to become almost teenagers and

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Speaker 2: they push the boundaries, and I feel like how we

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Speaker 2: respond in that moment either ushes in the next season

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Speaker 2: well and sets the tone or where it kind of

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Speaker 2: squashes our kids and makes them feel like being a

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Speaker 2: teenager is a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Mitchell's new book is called Tweens What Kids Need

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Speaker 1: Now Before the Teenage Years. It's in store, it's online,

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Speaker 1: It's available right now wherever you buy your books. Michelle,

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Speaker 1: what a great conversation. Thanks so much for sharing what

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Speaker 1: you've shared.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Always love it.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruwland for

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. And if

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Speaker 1: you'd like more info about making your family happier, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're raising tweens. Check out Michelle's book Twins. Will

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Speaker 1: link to it in the show notes, or you can

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Speaker 1: find it online and visit Happy families dot com, dot

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Speaker 1: a