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Speaker 1: You're listening to mix one oh four point nine three sixty.

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Speaker 1: Now we've spoken a lot in recent weeks about the

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Speaker 1: well the state of the Northern Territory health system, and

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Speaker 1: in recent days we have spoken a lot about the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government's mandate for vaccinations, particularly for those who

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Speaker 1: are on the front line and coming into contact with

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Speaker 1: vulnerable people. Now, I think you'd have to say that

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Speaker 1: our nurses and midwives do that on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: And joining me on the line right now from the

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Speaker 1: Australian Nursing and Midwiffree Federation's Northern Territory Branch, the Secretary

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Speaker 1: Kath Hatcher, Good morning to you, Cath.

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Speaker 2: Oh, good morning Katie and listeners.

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Speaker 1: Kath. Firstly, we have been speaking, as I said, quite

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Speaker 1: a bit this morning and in recent days about the

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Speaker 1: mandatory vaccine. How's that vaccine mandate been received by nurses

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Speaker 1: and midwives here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: Through the public sector of Northern Territory, it's been mandated

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Speaker 2: through their policy and guidelines that everyone needs to have

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Speaker 2: the vaccine, those existing stuff, those new potential signing up

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Speaker 2: a new contract. The stipulations are that by the time

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Speaker 2: they start in the clinical area they need to be

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Speaker 2: fully vaccinated with their COVID but also with their flu vaccine,

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Speaker 2: and in specific areas like pediatrics, then there's other specific

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Speaker 2: vaccines they need to also have. And if they do

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Speaker 2: not wish to get fully vaccinated for whatever reason in

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Speaker 2: any of the for either the COVID or the flu

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Speaker 2: vaccine or the other specific ones like hooping cough, hepatitis

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Speaker 2: A for the pediatric area, then they won't be employed

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Speaker 2: into the nt public sector. Those that existing that do

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Speaker 2: not wish to have their flu or for their COVID vaccinations,

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Speaker 2: they will be taken out of the higher risk areas

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Speaker 2: in the clinical space and put into the non clinical

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Speaker 2: or the low risk areas of Merping and Midwiffree.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, there are sort of other options for those

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Speaker 1: nurses if that's the choice that they make. But KAV

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Speaker 1: has there been very many from what you're aware of,

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Speaker 1: who are not keen to get that vaccine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there is a small handful that has come to

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Speaker 2: our office over the last few months, and particularly a

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Speaker 2: couple this last week since mister Gunner's mandate announcement last Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, there are It does sound as though those

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Speaker 1: numbers are fairly small.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct, and it does.

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Speaker 1: Sound also though that there are sort of other, you know,

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Speaker 1: other possibilities in terms of them moving into other areas.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely so, there's other areas like contact tracing, non

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Speaker 2: clinical areas like outpatients departments and etc.

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Speaker 1: And kas I know this. We have obviously spoken a

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Speaker 1: lot in recent weeks about some of the issues that

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Speaker 1: we've got with shortages of nurses. Is this vaccine mandate

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Speaker 1: going to make much of an impact in that space

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Speaker 1: or are we talking quite low numbers here.

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Speaker 2: I think we are talking low numbers because majority of

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Speaker 2: nurses and midwives that I do talk to and our

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Speaker 2: staff talk to within the territory that there is only

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Speaker 2: a small cohort that wish, for various reasons not to

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Speaker 2: have the fluvacs or the COVID nineteen vaccination. We've always

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Speaker 2: had issues with recruiting and retaining staff within the territory,

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Speaker 2: particularly over the wet season. A lot of people come

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Speaker 2: from interstate from southern parts of Australia to work in

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Speaker 2: the remote and rural areas of the Northern Territory because

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Speaker 2: it's something completely different than they experience in their own states.

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Speaker 2: Particularly with our First Nations people and their higher risk

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Speaker 2: with their medical conditions. So they come for three to

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Speaker 2: six months, they experience the dry season, they experience the

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Speaker 2: different types of nursing, and then they usually go back

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Speaker 2: to their state, back to their nominal job. We are

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Speaker 2: experiencing great staff shortages right around Australia, and not just

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Speaker 2: within the Northern Territory, but nurses are being stretched through

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Speaker 2: to the COVID vaccination hubs, to the swabbing hubs, to

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Speaker 2: the contact tracing areas and also the how with springs

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Speaker 2: and other springs quarantine facilities. So this is not something

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Speaker 2: that we're unique to that within the territory. The rest

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Speaker 2: of the states are in the same boat. And I

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Speaker 2: do know that Victoria has something like two thousand nurses

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Speaker 2: and midwives that they're short of. Now we don't have

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Speaker 2: that extent of numbers within the territory, but we do

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Speaker 2: probably have a couple of hundred that is impacting in

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Speaker 2: the shortages within the territory and it is getting the

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Speaker 2: staff within their areas, doing over time and double shifts, etc.

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Speaker 2: Within their work areas.

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Speaker 1: And cas I know that obviously the Health Minister had

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Speaker 1: announced on the show a couple of weeks ago that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be an additional forty nurses starting across

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Speaker 1: the major hospitals. Well what she'd said. Over the next

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Has there been much happen in that

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Speaker 1: space from what you're aware of?

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Speaker 2: I do know that it's either this week or next week.

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Speaker 2: There's an extra sixteen agency staff starting within the Royal

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Speaker 2: Dahalen Hospital emergency department. I'm not too sure where the

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Speaker 2: other cohort of nurses are going. Hopefully it's going to

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Speaker 2: the other areas like mental health and theater and surgical

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Speaker 2: areas because that's where the shortage most of the areas

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Speaker 2: of shortage there. But all areas and units work units

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Speaker 2: have some degree of shortness. But there's four main areas

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Speaker 2: the emergency department, mental health, theater and surgical area that

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Speaker 2: are really struggling within the top end of Northern.

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Speaker 1: Territories and CASS when we talk more generally, I guess

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Speaker 1: about those emergency wards within Royal Darwin Hospital and also

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Speaker 1: Palmerston Hospital. Has there been much improvement from your perspective

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Speaker 1: or are things fairly much at status squad?

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Speaker 2: I did really, I do know that about two weeks

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Speaker 2: ago the previous four to six weeks there was a

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Speaker 2: good cohort of nurses starting in the emergency department of

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Speaker 2: Royal Dalen Hospital, which was still leaving them twenty two

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Speaker 2: full time equivalent nurses down still and across the whole

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Speaker 2: of Royal Dale and Hospital. When I last heard a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, it was about eighty seventy five

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Speaker 2: to eighty full time equivalent staff down. So that's just nursing.

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Speaker 2: Guessing there's other areas like cleaners, patient care assistants, etc.

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Speaker 2: They would also be struggling in all areas of their departments,

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Speaker 2: not just the nursing and midwire free and kas.

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Speaker 1: I know that, I know that you obviously mentioned just

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Speaker 1: a short time ago that over the wet season it

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Speaker 1: is traditionally at a time when you do see nurses

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Speaker 1: move or travel into state. I know it's quite a

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Speaker 1: transient sort of job. I'm assuming if you are a

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Speaker 1: nurse who's able to move around and COVID is making

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Speaker 1: things a little bit more difficult. But are you expecting

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Speaker 1: that we're going to actually see more nurses leave the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory this wet season.

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Speaker 2: I would expect yes, because that's the usual situation. So

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Speaker 2: the movement within staff within Australia and overseas nurses that

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Speaker 2: normally would come across into Australia. So we have a

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Speaker 2: big cohort of New Zealand nurses that go to Central Australia,

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Speaker 2: not just Sallie Springs Hospital, but the rural and remote

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Speaker 2: areas around Central Australia. They are the nurses that have

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Speaker 2: stayed put in New Zealand because if they come across

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Speaker 2: and work in the Central Australia, they know that they

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Speaker 2: might not be able to get back at all if

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Speaker 2: their loved ones become unwell, so they've stayed put within

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Speaker 2: New Zealand. So that's been a big impact on Central Australia,

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Speaker 2: but also within Australia itself. There may have been nurses

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Speaker 2: that could have come from Victoria or New South Wales

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Speaker 2: and there definitely has been some movement and the government

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Speaker 2: is paying for their quarantine facility and depending on where

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Speaker 2: they're going, they may have paid for their removalists to

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Speaker 2: come to the Northern Territory as well. And I do

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Speaker 2: know that they're looking at some others coming from overseas

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Speaker 2: on maybe twelve or two year contracts and paying for

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Speaker 2: their quarantine facility and finding them somewhere to live, and

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Speaker 2: their cost of removal as well. So for us to

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Speaker 2: help retain and keep staff within the territory longer than

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Speaker 2: just through the dry season, we need to have some

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Speaker 2: incentives for those that are already here, perhaps thinking about

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Speaker 2: going home to their normal state where they come from.

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Speaker 2: We need to look at some incentives, perhaps looking at

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Speaker 2: for their removal costs to come to the territory to

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Speaker 2: stay here, and signing a contract for at least two

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Speaker 2: to three years for them to stay here.

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Speaker 1: And Kathy, it does sound as though you know, something

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Speaker 1: like that may be needed at this point in time

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Speaker 1: in an effort to try to get more nurses here

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Speaker 1: in the territory, but not just get them here, but

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Speaker 1: get them to stay exactly.

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Speaker 2: And if we have the wage freeze that mister Gunner

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Speaker 2: put on us twelve months ago for the whole NTI

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Speaker 2: public sector, they're not going to want to stay. So

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Speaker 2: we've done some statistics of late within the office here

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Speaker 2: and we're sitting at the moment with the pace scale,

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Speaker 2: we're sitting in the top two and some areas in

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Speaker 2: the top three. So if we are unable to fight

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Speaker 2: the battle with the Gunma government. With this one thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars taxable non accumulative payoff for the next three to

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Speaker 2: four years, then we're going to drop below the top three.

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Speaker 2: And also our nurse to patient ratios are much higher

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Speaker 2: within the territory. So if you work somewhere like Victoria,

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Speaker 2: you have very mandated nurse to patient ratios and you

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Speaker 2: cannot work above those ratios. So why would you come

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Speaker 2: to the territory when the pay scale is just as equal.

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Speaker 2: You've got better work life and workforce and workloads within

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Speaker 2: your unit and ward. And why would you come to

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory when you're getting the same pay and

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Speaker 2: you're going to get absolutely flogged to death every shift

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Speaker 2: with the patient ratio that we have in the territory currently.

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Speaker 1: Kath, we are going to have to wrap up. But

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Speaker 1: I know that the Health Minister has told the paper

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Speaker 1: today in a report there about this very issue that

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Speaker 1: it will allow us to keep staff. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to be in a position where we have to sack staff,

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Speaker 1: that is in relation to that pay freeze. What would

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Speaker 1: you say in response to that.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Gunner government needs to stop this one thousand

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Speaker 2: non accumulative taxable pay per year. They need to give

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Speaker 2: us a proper percentage. For the last four years, the

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Speaker 2: nurses have got two point five percent accumulative pay rise

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Speaker 2: each year. Our CPI is more than two point five

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Speaker 2: percent at the moment, So we need to keep up

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Speaker 2: with the CPI at least, and we aren't going to

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Speaker 2: attract and retain and recruit staff to come to the territory.

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Speaker 2: If we can't keep up with the CPI and if

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Speaker 2: we can't keep good workload balances within the work force,

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Speaker 2: then we're not going to keep staff that are already here.

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Speaker 2: They will leave also.

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Speaker 1: Well, Hatcha the Australian Nursing and we're Free Federation's NT

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Speaker 1: Branch secretary. We always appreciate your time. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thank you, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. You are listening to mix one oh four

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Speaker 1: point nine now if you are keen to call through

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Speaker 1: today eight nine one O four nine