1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: the thirteenth of November. I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm belief at Simon's. 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: The Coalition is in the middle of a major internal 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: showdown over its climate policy. This is after the Nationals, 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: of course, recently announced that they were dumping their support 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: for net zero. Yesterday, Liberal MPs gathered in Canberra to 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: discuss whether the party should maintain its commitment to net 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: zero emissions by twenty fifty and those talks will inform 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: the Shadow Cabinet's next decision as it meets today to 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: determine the party's position. But it's a joint meeting with 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: the Nationals on Sunday when we'll find out the Coalition's 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: final stance on net zero. And today we're going to 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: bring you up to speed on everything that's going on 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: and what it meant for Australia's future climate goals. 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: This story has been moving so quickly, so it's been 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: a bit hard to keep up with all the different updates, 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: but it all centers around net zero, so I think 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: that's a good place to start. What does net zero 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: actually mean? 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: Yet, I think a lot of people don't know what 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: net zero actually means, So this is an important piece 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: of the puzzle. Net zero means balancing the amount of 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: greenhouse gases that we put into the atmosphere with the 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: amount we remove. So by twenty fifty, the goal is 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: that any emissions Australia produces would be offset by removing 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: an equivalent amount from the atmosphere. Now, this is achieved 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: through things like renewable energy, carbon removal initiatives that includes reforestation. 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: There's a whole raft of measures that are part of that. 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: But it is important to note that net zero doesn't 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: mean zero emissions. It means the emissions that we can't 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: eliminate we balance through those removal activities. 35 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: I think I've said this on the podcast before, but 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: whenever I think of net zero, I think of a bathtub, 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: and that bathtub is full of water, and if you 38 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: add more water, you have to take that amount out 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: of the bathtub as well, exactly, And that's how I 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: think of That is a great Archimedee's bath analogy. 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: Net zero, you may or may not know, is a 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: commitment that the government made in twenty twenty one under 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: Scott Morrison's leadership, so that was a coalition government, but 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: it's an initiative that has had the support of both 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: major parties. It's a target that the Coalition and Labor 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: have committed to until very recently. 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: Until very recently, and that's why we're talking about it 48 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: today exactly. And we're focusing on the coalition's policy. And 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: so both the Liberal Party and the National Party, who 50 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: make up the coalition, we're both in agreement that net 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: zero by twenty fifty was a good thing and that 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: was a policy that they adopted and took two elections. 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: But now it appears that that's changed. Yeah, how has 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: it changed? 55 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: Well, to put it simply, Billy, the Nationals has changed. 56 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: The Nationals has shifted its position, and that in turn 57 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: has changed everything. So earlier this month the Nationals party 58 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: room voted formally to abandon net zero by twenty fifty. 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 2: Now that was after months of uncertainty, division and signposting 60 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: from Nationals leaders that the target was going to be 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: dropped by the party. But this created immediate problems for 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: the Liberals because, as you mentioned, the Coalition is a 63 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: formal alliance between those two parties. They campaigned together, they 64 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: work together in opposition at the moment, or when they're 65 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 2: in government together. They are technically separate parties with their 66 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: own policies, but they need to come to the table 67 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: and agree on these kinds of issues. And when the 68 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: Nationals walked away from net zero, it left the Libs 69 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: in this really different position of either sticking with the 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: commitment and going without the support of their coalition partner, 71 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: or following the Nationals and dumping net zero two. 72 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: And so why did the Nationals walk away from net zero? 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: A big one for the Nationals here is the cost 74 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: of energy. So the Nats claim that household energy prices 75 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: have shot up under net zero policies, and so we 76 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: need to walk away from this commitment to drive down 77 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: household power prices. Now, energy experts flag that there are 78 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: a raft of reasons for energy prices increasing and net 79 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: zero is not solely to blame. David little Proud, who 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: is the leader of the Nationals, also believes that the 81 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: current net zero target is too ambitious. He thinks that 82 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: Australia is punching above its weight on a global scale, 83 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: that we're doing more than our fair share of emissions 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: reductions and that when you consider the amount that we 85 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 2: emit on a global scale, that there is an unfair imbalance. 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: Little Proud also said he wants to protect industries like mining, agriculture, 87 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: manufacturing in the regions which he argues are being quote 88 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: torn apart by the government's energy policies. 89 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so that is the National Party where they stand. 90 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: They are united in walking away from net zero. And 91 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: then we have the Liberal Party who yesterday had the 92 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: meeting to decide what their position on net zero is. 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: We don't know the outcome of that meeting, but we 94 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: know they had it and from what I can see, 95 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: there is a lot of internal fighting within the Liberal 96 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: Party about their stance on this. 97 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, is that right? It is far from clearcut. The 98 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: Liberal Party does not have the solid, uniform kind of 99 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: commitment that the Nationals has landed on two walk away, 100 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: and this has caused massive tension. The Liberal Party has 101 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: essentially been split into two camps on this issue within 102 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: its own party, let alone the two camps of the coalition. 103 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: So on one side of the Liberal Party right now, 104 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: you have the moderate faction. These are the nps that 105 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 2: typically represent urban or inner city seats where voters do 106 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: tend to care more about climate action and climate policy. 107 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: Now by and large, the moderate Liberals want to keep 108 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: the net zero commitment. They believe that it is a 109 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: good policy and that dumping it importantly could cost them 110 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: votes and could cost them more seats after an historic 111 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: loss at the recent federal election. On the other side, 112 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: you have the conservative or right faction of the Liberal Party, 113 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: and these MPs argue that net zero policies are driving 114 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: up energy prices. They want to prioritize lowering power bills 115 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: over these climate commitments, and they would be more aligned 116 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: with whether nationals have fallen on the issue. The Albanesi government. 117 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: In the meantime, the Labor Party is committed to net 118 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 2: zero by twenty fifty and it has said repeatedly that 119 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: abandoning the target would be reckless. 120 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: So they've been quite critical of the fact that the 121 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Liberal Party is still discussing whether or not to have 122 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: net zero exactly, and so just staying on the Liberal Party. 123 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: Who are some of the he figures on either side 124 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: of the factions in the Liberal Party. 125 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the most prominent moderates that we've heard 126 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: from is Andrew Bragg. A Liberal senator. He has actually 127 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: said that he would consider quitting the Shadow cabinet if 128 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: the party decides to pull out of the Paris Agreement. 129 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: Now that is the international Climate treaty, and the net 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: zero target is part of Australia's legal obligations under the treaty, 131 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: which is why you might hear net zero and Paris 132 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: kind of discussed interchangeably. But Andrew Bragg has been really 133 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: clear that he supports lowering omissions. He doesn't think Australia 134 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: should walk away from its international commitments. There are other 135 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: senior Liberal officials who have previously said firmly and confidently 136 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: that they support net zero, but in the recent weeks, 137 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: since these divisions have intensified, they have either walked back 138 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: those comments or have you know, quietened down on them 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: and said, let's leave it up to these meetings this 140 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: week to find out what will happen on the Conservative side. 141 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: So the Liberal policians who want to walk away from 142 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 2: net zero, you have Shadow Cabinet ministers like Angus Taylor 143 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: and Michaylia Cash. They have spoken in favor of dumping 144 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: net zero at a recent leadership meeting. According to a 145 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: report by the Australian. And then in between all of 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: that we have the Opposition leader, Susan Lee, who is 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: frankly Billy caught in the middle of all of this, 148 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: trying to hold the party and the coalition together. 149 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: She's trying to unite a party that does not want 150 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: to be united, seemingly. So we had this meeting yesterday 151 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party MPs. I know we mentioned before 152 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: that we don't really know what happened yet, but what 153 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: do we know? 154 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: So we do know that yesterday at midday the Liberal 155 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: Party room met in Canberra. It's actually not a sitting week, 156 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: so politicians had flown home to their electorates and they 157 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: were recalled to Canberra specifically for these talks. Essentially, what 158 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: happened yesterday was a chance for all Liberal MPs and 159 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: senators to share their views on whether they think net 160 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: zero is worth sticking to or whether the party should 161 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: walk away. So it was a chance for everyone to 162 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: express their opinions hear each other out. That included some 163 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: research that the party conducted on voters' views on climate action, 164 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: so that was presented. The Shadow Energy Minister Dan Teen 165 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: also presented some findings from a policy review that he 166 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: has been leading, but no decisions were made. Like I said, 167 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: this was just an opportunity for everyone to have their 168 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: say before the leadership makes a call, and that is 169 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: happening later today. 170 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: So there is another meeting today where the leadership team 171 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party will actually decide what the policy is. 172 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a lot of scheduling here to get 173 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 2: your head around. So once you figure out what net 174 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: zero is and why half of the coalition wants to 175 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: walk away from it, then you have to figure out 176 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: the process of how they're going to come to the table. 177 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: So the Liberal Shadow Cabinet will meet today, that's the 178 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: senior leadership team of the party, and they will try 179 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: to land on a policy position based on everything they've 180 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: heard at the previous day's meeting. So they'll try to 181 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: bring together the learnings and the opinions that were presented yesterday. 182 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: I quite like that system here everyone's perspectives and then 183 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: go away and make a decision. Yeah. 184 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: I suppose it's a nice idea in theory if it works, 185 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: But there are ultimately three big questions for shadow cabinet 186 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: to answer. First, they need to figure out do they 187 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: stay committed to twenty fifty. Is net zero twenty fifty 188 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 2: a target for them or are they dumping it? Second, 189 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: what happens to Australia's commitment to the Paris Agreement? So 190 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 2: we have international, legally binding obligations. How will the coalition 191 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: move forward with the international climate treaty that Australia signed? 192 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: And Third, how are they going to lower power prices? 193 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: So if they abandoned net zero or not, what will 194 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: the strategy be there? Because the Liberal Party has tabled 195 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 2: that that is a key priority. 196 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: And just in case anyone is confused when we say 197 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: they are deciding whether or not to abandon net zero, 198 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: this is if they got into government at the next 199 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: election in Australia, which isn't until twenty twenty eight, they 200 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: are deciding what their policies to take to that election are. So, 201 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: because they're not in government at the moment, it's not 202 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: immediately a tangible decision. 203 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: There won't be an immediate impact on how Australia's climate 204 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: targets are being reached, but a lot could change in 205 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: the future. 206 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. Okay, so that is the meeting that is today, 207 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: But then you said that there is another meeting. We 208 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: love all the meetings. There is another meeting on Sunday, 209 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: and that is with the Nationals. 210 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: Yes, so Sunday is the big one if you have 211 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: to think about it in that way. Today is when 212 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party will decide what its approach to net 213 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: zero will be. The Nationals has already decided its approach, 214 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: which is abandoned. On Sunday, those two parties will come 215 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: together as the coalition. They will hold a joint meeting 216 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: where as a whole they will determine their final position 217 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: on net zero. This meeting could be very short. It 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: could be quick and easy if the Liberals decide today 219 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: the Shadow Cabinet decides that they're going to walk away 220 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: from net zero. But if there is a point of 221 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: tension that contradicts what the Nationals have decided, then it 222 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: could be a long day. The challenge is that whatever 223 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: the Liberals decide, they then need to negotiate with the Nationals, 224 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: and we already know where the Nats stand. So even 225 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: if the Liberals decide that they want to keep net zero, 226 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: they'll have to figure out how that works with their 227 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: coalition partners. And this is where Susan Lee's leadership will 228 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: really be tested. Even further she needs to find that 229 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: position that doesn't split the coalition, but also that doesn't 230 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: alienate too many of her colleagues and ultimately too many 231 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: future potential voters. 232 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you just brought up splitting the coalition. I was 233 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: going to say, we have already seen this year that 234 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: net zero is an issue that the Coalition is willing 235 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: to partly split over. They then came back together, but 236 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: it is within possibility that they could split again over 237 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: net zero. Experts saying that. 238 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a genuine concern about whether the Coalition 239 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: can come out the other side of this issue. They 240 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: obviously did experience that brief split earlier this year that 241 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: you mentioned Billy. Net zero is believed to have been 242 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: a factor in that breakup. So if the Liberals don't 243 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: want to dump net zero or don't want to shift 244 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: on the target, you could see that conversation rearing up again. 245 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: There's also a world where, you know, if Liberals dump 246 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: net zero in line with what the Nationals are calling for, 247 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: moderate MPs may become increasingly vocal, potentially moved to the 248 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: cross bench. That would be a big hit to the Liberals, 249 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: very diminished presence in parliament. Environment Minister Murray Watt. Of course, 250 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: Labor Minister has called this internal debate another example of 251 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: the tail wagging the dog. So his implication there is 252 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: the National Party, despite the fact that it has a 253 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: smaller representation in Parliament, that it's dictating the terms of 254 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party's agenda. Many commentators are also pointing out 255 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: that Susan Lee is in a lose lose position as 256 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: opposition leader. She has inherited these problems. She is leading 257 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: a coalition that is divided after a historic election loss. 258 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: And what next for her is anyone's guess. 259 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: I think that's a whole other podcast and it's super 260 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: interesting what is happening with Susan Lee's leadership. She obviously 261 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: says that she still has the support of the party, 262 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: but there have been some MPs who have not supported 263 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: her very publicly. Yeah, but yeah, I think that's a 264 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: whole other podcast potentially. But just to finish on this, 265 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: I know he briefly touched on it before, but what 266 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: does this mean for Australia's climate policies because they're not 267 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: in government, Yes, but it would still impact I guess 268 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: the landscape. 269 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 2: Exactly and immediately the impact would be uncertainty so this 270 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: would fundamentally change the climate policy landscape in Australia. And 271 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: while the Coalition is not in government, this creates policy uncertainty, 272 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: especially in the world of business investors overseas, investors potentially 273 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: looking to spend money long term on you know, local 274 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: renewable projects, clean energy infrastructure. If there is a signal 275 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: of a dramatic shift in Australia's political future when it 276 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: comes to climate targets, that could impact a lot of 277 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: that investment. That could see a lot of that money 278 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: dry up depending on who wins the next election in 279 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. There's also the question of Australia's international standing. 280 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: What happens to the Paris Agreement. We are a signatory 281 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: to that treaty. Walking away from net zero would put 282 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: us at odds with most developed nations. There is so 283 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: much up in But I guess any suggestion that this 284 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't matter because the Coalition is not in government is 285 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: possibly a little naive. We have to really wait for 286 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: Sunday to hear where the coalition will land. That's when 287 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: we'll find out their official position, and there'll be plenty 288 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: to say from there. 289 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: Well, we will keep a close eye on today's meeting, 290 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: and then on Sunday's meeting, and on the decision that 291 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: comes out of that. Emma, thank you for explaining that. 292 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: Thank you Philly, and thank you so much for listening 293 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: to this episode of The Daily Ods. We'll be back 294 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: in your ease this afternoon with your evening headlines, but 295 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: until then, have a great day and keep an eye 296 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: on those meetings. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm 297 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: a proud Aarunda Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The 298 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: Daily os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the 299 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: lands of the Gatigol people and pays respect to all 300 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations. We pay our 301 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past 302 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: and present.