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Speaker 1: Get a I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,

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Speaker 1: and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure

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Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome to your Potter Rooney. Fun fact about me. Anytime

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Speaker 1: I interview a friend, I don't get nervous at all

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Speaker 1: about the interview, but I get nervous about the introduction,

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Speaker 1: which is what we're recording right now. So great, I've

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Speaker 1: just admitted that. Okay, With that said, Chloe Elizabeth Wilson,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the pod. She's a writer, a screenwriter, a

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Speaker 1: former horse girl, and a She is also obsessed to

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Speaker 1: Cold Kidman. I'm sure she won't mind me saying this,

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Speaker 1: and she has a book out that has just come out.

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Speaker 2: It's called Ritual.

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Speaker 1: We actually had to record this episode in LA before

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Speaker 1: I went to Australia because the day, two days before

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Speaker 1: I got back to LA, she had flown to Australia

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Speaker 1: to do the book tour for Ritual. Oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 1: can I tell you this book it's fiction. It is

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Speaker 1: like makeup beauty brand, set in mouths, cult vibes, with

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Speaker 1: like a little slash of murderous stuff going on the

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Speaker 1: side as well.

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Speaker 2: It is so addictive to read in the best way.

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Speaker 1: Chloe, You've flipp an unreal. It was so nice to

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Speaker 1: sit down and shitty chat with you. And Chloe and

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Speaker 1: I have become friends over the last year or so.

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Speaker 1: In LA. We're both out here running hard at those dreams,

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Speaker 1: but also some days are tough and brutal in LA,

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Speaker 1: and so we bonded over what we love about LA

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Speaker 1: and some things that feel like a real challenge. And so, Chloe,

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Speaker 1: first of all, this book's gonna fly. I know it is,

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Speaker 1: so congrats. Second of all, thanks for being a rip

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Speaker 1: of flip and mate.

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Speaker 2: All right, houbu gang.

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Speaker 1: Hope I didn't mess up the intro too much, and

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Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat Boie. Welcome to the pod, Rooney,

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Speaker 1: Chloe Elizabeth Wilson also my friend.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I can say now.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely yes your friend.

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Speaker 1: Rider screenwrider, former horse goal, former horse girl.

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Speaker 2: That is correct, Surfer. I only learned this recently. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I am a surfer and can I say Nicole Kidman fanatic.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a Nicole Kidman fanatic. That is correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got it all right.

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Speaker 1: I've seen snaps of you wearing your baby girl sweat

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Speaker 1: out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a baby girl sweat.

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Speaker 3: I also have a mug that I have my coffee

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Speaker 3: and every morning that has Nicole Kidman on it. So

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Speaker 3: I'm very serious about Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 1: I learned this the first night, not the first we

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Speaker 1: had a cough. So first of all, you and I

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Speaker 1: have become mates because we are both here in Los Angeles, yes,

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Speaker 1: chasing weird wild dreams out here, Yes, in what feels

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Speaker 1: like an upside downland.

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Speaker 3: It is very upside down. And you do the thing

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Speaker 3: that I'm noticing about LA is you see so many

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Speaker 3: more bare butts than you think that you would just

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Speaker 3: walking down the street, like there's there's just like I

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Speaker 3: think there's a lot of things that I will go

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Speaker 3: back to Australia and be like, oh that was weird

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Speaker 3: that I saw. Oh yeah, but it's very strange.

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Speaker 1: I have literally deep dived all of your substacks for

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Speaker 1: all your what do you call them tolltales and I

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Speaker 1: love the way you describe America in a really positive way.

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Speaker 1: You're like, it is a really yes place to be

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Speaker 1: from like a creative perspective, like if you've got an idea, Americans.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, they take it seriously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Also, I think Americans broadly are very serious people and literal,

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Speaker 3: Like they were very literal and they really like I

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Speaker 3: actually was explaining to an American friend last night the

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Speaker 3: concept of tall poppy syndrome. Yeah, and she thought I

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Speaker 3: said tall poppy syndromes for about ten minutes. She was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm just struggling to work out like what it means.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, poppy, like you know, like

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Speaker 3: cutting down the poppies, and she she found it, like,

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Speaker 3: she just found it very strange. She was like, why

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Speaker 3: would people behave like that? And I was like, great question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so fascinating. I actually researched that tall

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Speaker 1: poppy thing. Do you know that you know that, like

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Speaker 1: because we all think like in Australia, tall poppy is

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Speaker 1: like you cut down anyone as soon as I start

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Speaker 1: getting a win. But apparently, like the flip side of

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Speaker 1: that story is actually like poppies grow better as a collection.

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Speaker 2: Oh I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 2: It's like makes actual nice side to it.

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Speaker 1: But we're all like, ah Ussie cut them down, tall

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Speaker 1: poppy Kingwi's AUSSI, you know. But it is so like

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Speaker 1: even being in classes and stuff here. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: and I ordered it an acting clean did order an

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Speaker 1: acting class.

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Speaker 3: We've we've had like some really we went to a

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Speaker 3: talk show. We've ordered an acting class. You know, we've

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Speaker 3: had normal hangs as well, but I feel like they

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Speaker 3: were really lovely activity we.

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Speaker 2: Have we have done. I think we're activity people. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: I have. First of all, to the listener.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we are recording this episode quite in advance

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Speaker 1: because you, my friend, are bringing out your debut novel,

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Speaker 1: Holy Mad Yes, ritual.

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Speaker 2: So we're recording because I'm about to go to Australia.

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Speaker 1: You're about to go a straight and once we're just like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got to do it ahead of both our travel.

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Speaker 1: So it is officially available tomorrow in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yes that's correct.

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Speaker 3: Weird to think about that right now, but yes tomorrow

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Speaker 3: for when this episode is out.

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Speaker 2: Can I say, having you sent me, I'm really lucky

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Speaker 2: you sent me. Is it called an arc.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, advanced reading or advanced review.

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Speaker 2: Copy, thank you.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, here we go, like

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Speaker 1: and I can't. I'm not good at reading like digital copies.

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Speaker 1: I'm very tactile. It's a real pain.

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Speaker 3: I always feel really bad if I have to send someone,

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Speaker 3: particularly with novels, I think, with scripts or with anything else.

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Speaker 3: If it's shorter, it's okay. But reading three hundred pages

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Speaker 3: on a screen is just it just sucks.

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Speaker 2: Well, can I say thanks to you?

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Speaker 1: I devoured it in like I think three days.

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Speaker 2: That's so lovely. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So I'm we've got to talk about the book. We've

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Speaker 1: got to talk about like how it came about. I

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Speaker 1: know it went to like auction, like insane, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like you're gonna have to write an autobiography at

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Speaker 1: the end of all of these.

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Speaker 2: But let's go back, like.

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Speaker 1: You you're a Whopper graduate, yeah, which that is not

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Speaker 1: something you'll find on my website alongside my love Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I did you know I went to Whopper.

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Speaker 3: I initially wanted to be an actor, which feels like

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Speaker 3: so long ago now, and I guess it was. I

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Speaker 3: graduated in twenty fourteen, which I guess is how.

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Speaker 2: Many years ago?

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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Speaker 2: Eleven? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which is just nuts to me. But if I

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Speaker 3: think of all the things that have happened in between

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Speaker 3: then and now, eleven years feels right. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: went to WAPA, I graduated. I kind of followed that

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Speaker 3: dream for a bit, had like a year where I

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Speaker 3: was I did musical theater, so I wanted to be

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Speaker 3: in stage shows.

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Speaker 2: Did you too with Barney the Dinosaur? Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: yeah I did.

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Speaker 3: I had like a very funny year where I toured

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Speaker 3: with Barnie the Dinosaur to the Middle East twice, which

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Speaker 3: was like one of the strangest and I also remember

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Speaker 3: at the time thinking, this is what all of my

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Speaker 3: life is going to be like, It's going to be

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Speaker 3: so crazy, And since then I just refer to it

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Speaker 3: as like the craziest thing that ever happened. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: we went to Egypt, we went to Bahrain, and then

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Speaker 3: at the end of the week in Bahrain, the like

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Speaker 3: the royal family of Bahrain gave us each the whole

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Speaker 3: touring party and iPhone is like a thank you gift.

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Speaker 2: As we were leaving.

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Speaker 3: It was like goodness, so strange and really like an

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Speaker 3: incredible experience, but yeah, I did too with Barney the Dinosaur.

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Speaker 1: So then and again, I love your subjects so much.

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Speaker 1: This is how I learned all this. And then you

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Speaker 1: were like, Okay, no VCA, I want to be a screenwriter.

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Speaker 3: Well, it kind of it took a little bit longer

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Speaker 3: than that. I actually, so I had been performing and

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Speaker 3: I had this kind of inkling that maybe it wasn't

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Speaker 3: for me, and I kind of was watching some of

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Speaker 3: the people I had gone to Wopple with who it

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Speaker 3: just felt that whole life felt very natural, and I

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Speaker 3: would observe them and feel like, oh, even when this

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Speaker 3: is hard for them, they don't doubt that that's what

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Speaker 3: they're supposed to be doing. And I think I like

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Speaker 3: I Honestly, when I think about it, I don't know

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Speaker 3: that I was ever like good enough, and not in

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Speaker 3: a way that I'm like kind of punishing myself or anything.

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Speaker 3: But it didn't really feel that natural. And what I

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Speaker 3: really enjoyed most was like being in a show with

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Speaker 3: a group of people and getting that kind of like.

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Speaker 2: School camp feel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually the first thing I did is

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Speaker 3: I went to the Second City in Chicago, which is

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Speaker 3: like a comedy school, and I did this that's.

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Speaker 2: Like Stephen Colbert like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And that was like it was a really

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Speaker 3: funny exercise in like nobody knew me I was Australian.

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Speaker 3: I actually did a friend from Australia came over and

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Speaker 3: joined me like part of the way through, and we

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Speaker 3: just kind of had this like fun silly summer where

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Speaker 3: I learned to like write sketches and like I was

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Speaker 3: doing writing like musical parodies and things at the time.

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Speaker 3: And then I kind of came back to Australia and

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Speaker 3: I thought, oh, Okay, now I'm going to really be

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Speaker 3: a writer. But then I like fell back into auditioning

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Speaker 3: for things and didn't really pursue it. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 3: I did a course at AFTERS in Sydney that was

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Speaker 3: just kind of like a like after Oh Australian Film,

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Speaker 3: Television and Radio School. It's I guess it's like a

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Speaker 3: it's kind of like VCA, but like specific for film

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Speaker 3: and TV and radio and yeah, and I did that

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Speaker 3: and then was like, oh, maybe I want to take

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Speaker 3: this seriously. And then I went to VCA, so it.

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Speaker 2: Was there was a bit of a journey. I had

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Speaker 2: no idea about Second City.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was just for a summer, but it

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Speaker 3: was really like I don't know if I think about

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Speaker 3: that time as being quite pivotal, even though I don't

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Speaker 3: feel like I really took the plunge until after that,

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Speaker 3: but it was it was a really nice just like

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Speaker 3: a really nice time.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: I can even see in the way you write and

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Speaker 1: again can't wait to get on.

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Speaker 2: You have this like dry comedy twang. Thank you. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're great. Oh yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I have like a really low tolerance

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Speaker 3: for things that don't have jokes. And I don't mean

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Speaker 3: jokes like white at the Chicken cross the Road. I mean, like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, just things that aren't like tinged with humor.

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Speaker 3: I think I think that life is and everyone says this,

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Speaker 3: I know, but it's so true that life is always

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Speaker 3: partially comedy, partially tragedy.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's just I really like can't I can't sit through

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Speaker 3: or read things that are one hundred percent you know, drama,

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Speaker 3: and very like, I just don't.

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Speaker 2: It's never going to be me.

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Speaker 1: I totally feel that, as I totally totally feel that.

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Speaker 1: So Okay, so you go to BCA, you do a

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Speaker 1: master's degree screenwriting Film and TV. Yeah, mad, Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: then he came out with like whatever the most prestigious,

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Speaker 1: Like what is it? Like?

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Speaker 3: You got oh the mark? Oh that's so funny, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I do.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny.

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Speaker 3: I was saying this to my partner the other day

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Speaker 3: because I had to order my transcript to like apply

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Speaker 3: for this grant thing and he looked at it and

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Speaker 3: he was like, oh my god, you got great marks.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I actually.

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Speaker 3: Think everyone in our class got that because the degree

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Speaker 3: was so right about your feeling, you know, like it

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Speaker 3: was very it was it was really like I really

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Speaker 3: treasure my time there. But I think quite different to

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Speaker 3: if you did like political science or something.

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Speaker 2: Got it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So okay, So you go to screenwriting school

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Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, I'm going to be a screenwriter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.

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Speaker 1: Somebody along the way gave you advice which was, okay,

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Speaker 1: why don't you think about writing a novel and then

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Speaker 1: doing the screenplay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny, and I actually this is kind

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Speaker 3: of my first cab off the rank talking about the

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Speaker 3: This is like first stop on the promo to it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think.

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Speaker 1: I've thought a lot about how much to like speak

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Speaker 1: to this, because I don't want it to sound like

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually want to write a novel for the

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Speaker 1: sake of writing a novel. But after I finished at VCA,

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Speaker 1: I had like I finished in twenty nineteen, and it

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Speaker 1: was quite different than when you finished Wopper. When you

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Speaker 1: finished Whopper, it's like, I don't know if it's still

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Speaker 1: like this, but when we finished, it was very much

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Speaker 1: like you're kind of shepherded into the industry and you're

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Speaker 1: introduced to all these agents and there's like a soft

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Speaker 1: landing in a way. It's still challenging, but finishing VCA,

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Speaker 1: it was like no one cared, no one.

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Speaker 2: Knew who you were.

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Speaker 3: There was like, you know, we had like a pitch

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Speaker 3: night where people came, but it was nothing that like

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Speaker 3: there's just no instruction as to like how to really

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Speaker 3: make your first moves. And I don't think that that

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Speaker 3: is like the fault of the teachers or the program.

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Speaker 3: It's actually just that the screen industry in Australia is

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Speaker 3: so small, and it's like there's room for x amount

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Speaker 3: of writers to be working, and that number of writers

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Speaker 3: already exist, So the number of people who can break

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Speaker 3: in it anytime is so little.

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Speaker 2: So I think that they just were kind of like,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: I've always said there's a huge bridge between like creative

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Speaker 1: studies where it would be acting, school, writing music, and

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Speaker 1: the business side of it and having business savviness, like

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Speaker 1: totally like because they'll talk a lot about work ethic,

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Speaker 1: work ethic, and it's like amazing. But then if I'm

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Speaker 1: especially as an actor, like if you're getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of no's, and yeah, it's really a resilience game, but

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Speaker 1: then it becomes a business game as well.

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Speaker 2: It really does really learn that no.

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Speaker 3: And it also sometimes feels like a dirty thing to

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Speaker 3: talk about because I think about, like, yeah, what happened

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Speaker 3: was so I finished a VCA and then I kind

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Speaker 3: of I ran this like emerging writers program for a

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Speaker 3: little while, which was really fun, and I like, I

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Speaker 3: think that that was like such an important like I

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Speaker 3: just think about that time and I feel so much

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Speaker 3: joy And you know, it was a couple of friends

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Speaker 3: and I running this program where we would facilitate like

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Speaker 3: over a month, we would give emerging writers a prompt

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Speaker 3: and they would write something new, and then we would

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Speaker 3: put on a showcase and we'd have.

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Speaker 2: Actors to come and read it. That's cool.

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Speaker 3: It was really fun and it was a lot of work.

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Speaker 3: But also I think I kind of did it as

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Speaker 3: a way to procrastinate my own writing because I was

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Speaker 3: like facilitating it for other people and it was really

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Speaker 3: like rewarding. And I think some of the people who

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Speaker 3: came through that program and now like friends I'll have

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Speaker 3: forever and people that, yeah, you know, like we help

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Speaker 3: each other out in the industry and stuff. But I

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Speaker 3: think it was the year after that was COVID, and

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Speaker 3: I think it was just as COVID hit, I was like, right,

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Speaker 3: I'm on job keeper. I don't my rent was like

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Speaker 3: relatively low, you know, I don't really have to spend

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Speaker 3: any money on things, like I should take this time

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Speaker 3: to really focus on my writing.

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Speaker 2: And I think I.

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Speaker 3: Started first writing like little things for Instagram, and I

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Speaker 3: would just put out these little tiles with like I

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Speaker 3: guess they were halfway between like poems and stories, and

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Speaker 3: if I look back at them now, I kind of

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say I cringe, because I actually

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Speaker 3: really like cringe culture and the idea that like you

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Speaker 3: should be embarrassed of trying about trying. But I look

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Speaker 3: back at them now and I can see that I've

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Speaker 3: like grown a lot as a writer. But it was

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Speaker 3: like the first time I had really shared stuff and

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Speaker 3: had feedback from people that was like this is good.

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Speaker 2: Do more, you know?

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Speaker 3: And then I started my newsletter and then off the

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Speaker 3: back of that, I wrote further ABC. I wrote for

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Speaker 3: The Guardian just like little freelance bits and bobs, and

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Speaker 3: I wrote something for Refinery twenty nine. And then it

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Speaker 3: was after that that a producer friend was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: if you could write a whole book and get it published,

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Speaker 3: And that was actually in between my friend and I

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Speaker 3: wrote this pilot for a series and it was.

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Speaker 2: The Porn Addiction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my goodness, this sounded I read the idea

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Speaker 1: of it like the little pitch line to mate and

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Speaker 1: that he was like, that sounds really good.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's so funny, because I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: time has passed now. But that was in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 3: My friend Katie and we wrote this pilot and we

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Speaker 3: had this idea for a series about this woman with

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Speaker 3: a porn addiction who fell one of those scams that's

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Speaker 3: like I have a video of your pleasuring yourself and

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Speaker 3: instead of actually dealing with her issues, she decided to

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Speaker 3: track down the scammer. So it became kind of like

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Speaker 3: a screwball comedy with these like kind of dark themes,

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Speaker 3: and I think it was a really great idea. I

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Speaker 3: think we were still like quite green as writers and

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Speaker 3: we were still figuring it out. But we had some

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Speaker 3: meetings with Vic Green and we kind of foolishly like

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Speaker 3: put all of our eggs in that basket and we're like,

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Speaker 3: we're definitely gonna get funding, Like this is going to happen,

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Speaker 3: and it just didn't for like a variety of reasons.

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Speaker 3: And then after that, a producer friend said to me, Hey,

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Speaker 3: if you could actually write a whole novel and get

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Speaker 3: it published, it sounds crazy, but the likelihood of it

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Speaker 3: then being optioned and you being attached to the screen

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Speaker 3: project is actually quite high. Yeah, so if you know,

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Speaker 3: went to do that, it would probably be worth your

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Speaker 3: while kind of thing. And that is actually what has

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Speaker 3: turned out to be true, which sounds wild also, doesn't

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Speaker 3: that Also.

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Speaker 2: It just increased your chops as a writer as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh definitely, Yeah, thousand words absolutely and just like to

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Speaker 1: be in the trenches with it. I also have your

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Speaker 1: own quote to read back to you, I know, the

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Speaker 1: thing that was off the back of that pilot that

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Speaker 1: you wrote with K the thing that you think will change.

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Speaker 2: Your life is really the thing that does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean I think that's a really as

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Speaker 1: a creative like, that's a really good thing.

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Speaker 2: To know and to like, and as like a writer

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: If anyone's listening to this as a writer, it's like, you

382
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Speaker 1: can write so many, so many pitch decks or so

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Speaker 1: many ideas and like, like even when I used to pitch.

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Speaker 2: I was with Pam mac and I used to pitch.

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Speaker 1: I'd pitch like six to ten ideas and they'd be like,

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Speaker 1: go flesh out those three.

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Speaker 2: And then I'd send back.

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Speaker 1: A week later three fleshed out ideas, and then they'd

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Speaker 1: be like, Okay, cool, we like this one.

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Speaker 3: Go go go that crazy.

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Speaker 1: So then all those other ideas, I don't see it

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Speaker 1: again for another year or I don't work on them

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Speaker 1: for another year. So it's kind of interesting to think.

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Speaker 1: And you might go and going, oh my goodness, this

395
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Speaker 1: is going to be the one. And the book that

396
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 1: I thought of mine would sell, The Yoga Body book

397
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 1: is my lowest seller. That's so in and I had

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Speaker 1: no concept, but I was like, this is the one.

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00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: There's something that's telling you that that's the thing.

400
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: But it's often like you've got blinkers on and you're

401
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: not looking at the full picture and you've got that

402
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,360
Speaker 1: like that bias to totally, oh well, I love.

403
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 2: This one the most.

404
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 3: It's going to be the one that flies. And it's like, yeah, totally.

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00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 3: And that also comes back to the business piece. I

406
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 3: think of writing, which again I think sometimes is like

407
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 3: a bit of a dirty word, but it's it's you're

408
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 3: selling things to people and it's like, I don't know,

409
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Speaker 3: I don't want to think about it too much, but

410
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Speaker 3: sometimes you have to, you know.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, this is a creative endeavor right now,

412
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,360
Speaker 1: us being on a pod together. It's also like we're

413
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: releasing it to time in with so people can.

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00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: They love what they what they hear pressure I mean

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Speaker 2: I think you can. I think there's like a really

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00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 2: like conscious way to do business too. Totally. Yeah. And

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00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: and I know I'm a pinch older than New Year

418
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: thirty or thirty one, thirty one and thirty two. Oh yeah,

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00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 2: because you're Pisce.

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00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I feel like a couple of times I've

421
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 3: been like, I'm Pisces, and you're like, what's your rising

422
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 3: and your moon? And I'm like, I'll have to check costar.

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00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 3: And then you've told me a few things, but I've

424
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 3: already forgotten because you and I so your Pisces, I'm Bergan.

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00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: We've got all these because we sit at opposite sides

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00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 1: of the astrology. Sorry, we're having a little side pike,

427
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 1: but we've got all these eclipses this year. So this

428
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: is the year that your life like sets up for

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00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. Damn yeah, so this is

430
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: still time. Sure, that sounds right to me. I will

431
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: take it personally. Another thing I wanted to say before

432
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: we get into ritual, I have to read this Stephen

433
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: King book you've referenced.

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Speaker 3: I'll bring it over to you maybe maybe after you

435
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 3: get oh maybe before you live. But it's called we

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00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 3: are having drinks tomorrow, Ninka, not to I'm sorry.

437
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: Sorry. Writing is not life, but I think that sometimes

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00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: it can be the way back to life. It's so good.

439
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 3: Why yeah, Stephen King? Do you know what's so funny?

440
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 3: I actually have not read any of Stephen King's actual novels,

441
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 3: which is like, it's.

442
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 2: So bad we would have seen movies adapted.

443
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 3: I've seen carry In, you know, like a bunch of stuff.

444
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 3: But and I have always like, he's always been on

445
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 3: my list. And then last year I was in New

446
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 3: York and a friend of my partners was like, you

447
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 3: have to read his book about writing.

448
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 2: It's like it's so good, and I was like, okay.

449
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: And then I think there were two other people who

450
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 3: recommended it to me in the same month, and I

451
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I gotta go buy it. And it's

452
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 3: it's like anyone who wants to just in creative that

453
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 3: you have to read that book.

454
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 2: It's so good. Oh my goodness, I'm like.

455
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: And the other one is write with the door closed,

456
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: rewrite with the door open.

457
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. And I mean, this is all so summarizing.

458
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: But I like, I was like, WHOA, Like, I think

459
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: anyone with that creative spirit would probably like totally.

460
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: I think there's also and I'm this I am going

461
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 3: to paraphrase. I remember before I read that Stephen King quote,

462
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 3: Dolly Oldish and said something and I can't remember if

463
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,719
Speaker 3: she was quoting someone else or if this was her

464
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 3: original thought, but it was something about like when particularly

465
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 3: when you're writing a novel, it's like such a long

466
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 3: and lonely process and you have to like approach it

467
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 3: with the attitude of like a toddler with their belly out,

468
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 3: like stumbling around the room.

469
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, like and that really I feel that.

470
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 3: And it's so hard because it's like sometimes you'll you know,

471
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 3: run ahead and you're thinking about like what people will

472
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 3: think about it, and you just like can't actually write

473
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: something true when you're thinking like that.

474
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think like, and you've said this, like,

475
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: and I think this is where you and I are

476
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: quite similar as artists, not to learn pinnis as artists,

477
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: but like truthfulness is quite important, Yeah, totally to write

478
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: from that space. And it doesn't mean to be writing

479
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 1: this is the truth for me as Yeah, and that's

480
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: why that's not a true story. With ritual, it's definitely

481
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: not a truth stuff.

482
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 2: Using your imagination.

483
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: This felt truth like totally from a place of truthfulness.

484
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's how I see it, And I hope

485
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 3: it reads like that. I think I think you can

486
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: tell right like straight away, and I think it's like

487
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 3: totally yeah, it's all still a learning lesson and I think,

488
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: I am, what's that like one of the Kardashians. She's like,

489
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 3: this is the year realizing things.

490
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: I feel.

491
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 3: I feel like the whole process of publishing this book

492
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: has been the process of realizing things and and kind

493
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: of like I guess, like kind of coming home to

494
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 3: like what's actually important to me? Like what do I

495
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 3: believe in? What do I stand for? And like how

496
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: do I put that into my work and make it truthful?

497
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: Total? Yeah, totally.

498
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: I love the equator to kardash Now I cannot remember

499
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 3: which one it was.

500
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about.

501
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: So funny, so good, Okay, we got to talk ritual.

502
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: We'll talk to me and see stuff after because let's go.

503
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: Let's go the story right now.

504
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 2: Holy Max.

505
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: So I went in knowing nothing other than what you

506
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: told like you were like, yeah, yeah you And I

507
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: was like, cool.

508
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 2: I knew it was fiction.

509
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: Yep.

510
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 2: I funny.

511
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 3: If you didn't know that and you started reading, you're like, wow,

512
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: You're life've just been weird.

513
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: But I think you'd mentioned there could be a crime twang.

514
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: But I think I'd forgotten that bit of it, because

515
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: that's totally And as soon as I opened the book,

516
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: I was like, hello.

517
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: The first page, it's like a bit of murder.

518
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: I feel this, and then I think we caught up

519
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: after I was like five chapters in and I was.

520
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: Like, I did not realize there's a little bit of murdered.

521
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: I can't.

522
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 3: Yes, there is a little bit of murder, A sprinkling

523
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 3: of murder, A sprinkling.

524
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

525
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: So okay, first of all, as a Melbourne and we

526
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: are both born and raised Melbourn, are you born and

527
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: raised me?

528
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

529
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 3: I lived in Sydney in Perth, but I'm born and

530
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: raised Melbourne. Yeah.

531
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: So as you're describing places Enrichmond, I'm like, oh my goodness,

532
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: I can see this so well. And I'm in a

533
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: book club here in LA that someone is from Melbourne

534
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: in the book club as well, and I'm like, I

535
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: cannot I know what book I'm recommending, but talk to me. Okay,

536
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: first of all, for the listener. Let's keep the listeners

537
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: because I'm getting too excited about you being my mate.

538
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: Just wanting to talk about I said before we hit recorder,

539
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: I was like, we're not talking about ritual.

540
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 2: I know it was.

541
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, imagine if you were like I

542
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: hated it.

543
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: I want it, like I don't want to lose. Yeah.

544
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, So to the listener, if you could give me

545
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: as when keys, it sounds an elevator pitch.

546
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 2: Yes.

547
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: So there's like the short and the midium version. The

548
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: short kind of one line is that it's a story

549
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 3: about a col beauty brand that more or less turns

550
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: out to be a real cult. But the I guess

551
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: the like one paragraph descriptor is it's about a woman

552
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: called Mannie who's in her late twenties. She's feeling quite

553
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: a drift, and through what initially seems like a series

554
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: of coincidences, as she's recruited to work for this very mysterious,

555
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: very like coveted beauty brand called Ritual Cosmetica. And once

556
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: she's there, the founder and the CEO of the brand, Luna,

557
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: takes a liking to her. But as Marnie kind of

558
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 3: climbs the ranks within Ritual and gets deeper into the

559
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: company's law, she realizes that perhaps they have some sinister

560
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 3: secrets that they're hiding, and she also kind of starts

561
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: to question why she was recruited to work there and

562
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: ultimately like what it might cost her to stay. But wow,

563
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: I'm surprised that I got that out in a coherent way.

564
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: Nailed it now, so so flipping good like I could.

565
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: Matt's like, what are you doing, I'm like, I'm reading.

566
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: It's like I could not put it, especially like the

567
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: So this is the hard thing about the book, Like

568
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: not people want to spoil anything, but like it's fair

569
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: to say that Marnie at the start is kind of

570
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: like we've all been there, you know, when you're in

571
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: like you're in that part of your life where you're like.

572
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I think it's really interesting because this is

573
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: like kind of attention. But it comes back to that.

574
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 3: I think when I started writing it, it was hang

575
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: on one second, I'm back. It was twenty twenty one,

576
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: and I, like I said, had had that project that

577
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: my friend and I wrote, and I was feeling a

578
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: bit disillusioned by everything. But at the time I was

579
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: also this is and this is the thing where it's like,

580
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 3: this is the part of my real life that's woven

581
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 3: into it. I was working for a cult cosmetics brand,

582
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: which I will not say the name of, but I

583
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: should preface all of this discussion with the fact that

584
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: they were very good to me. The brand I actually

585
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: work for is not ritual. It's very different to there.

586
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: There were just some things about working there that were

587
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: really interesting to me in that it was like a

588
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: very theatrical business it was.

589
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: There was like.

590
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: It's not an actually religious element to it, but people

591
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: were so passionate about this brand that I found it

592
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: honestly quite funny. And I drink coolay drinking exactly, and like,

593
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: I met people working there that will hopefully be my

594
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: friends for the rest of my life, Like I adore them.

595
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 3: But there were a lot of things about working there

596
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: that I found very funny. Yeah, And when I started

597
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 3: writing the book, I was working there, but I was

598
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: also I don't know, just trying to like piece together

599
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: what the hell the rest of my life was.

600
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: Going to look like. And I felt very.

601
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt kind of like I've proof read the

602
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 3: book over the weekend, so I've just read it recently

603
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: as well. And there's a lot, particularly in the first half,

604
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: that I recognize, you know, that was me kind of

605
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 3: five years ago, if a few things had have gone worse.

606
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: You know, there's like a drop of like who I

607
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: was then, and I feel quite different about life now.

608
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's she's just MANI.

609
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: In the book.

610
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 3: She has been in this quite toxic relationship that we

611
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 3: come to learn more about through the book, and the

612
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 3: end of that relationship left her feeling quite angry but

613
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: also powerless, and she doesn't really have a career and

614
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: she she doesn't really like do anything about it because

615
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: she's stuck in this cycle of feeling a drift.

616
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, so hard to talk about that.

617
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 3: It's so terrible with spoilers because I don't care about spoilers,

618
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: and my partner, Hamish is he hates spoilers so much.

619
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: He's always just yeah, So I'm a liability it comes

620
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 3: to spoilers.

621
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: Can I just say, though, because you've mentioned Hamish, Oh

622
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: my goodness.

623
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: The end when you do your little acknowledgements.

624
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: And don't ever to the listener, read the book and

625
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: then read the acknowledgements because it's such a cute little

626
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: that's so nice. It's a little not very very sweet,

627
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: very okay, So what n so would it sit in

628
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: a crime a great fiction? Because I was like to

629
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck, what is it sitting? Is ye

630
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: sit in crime fiction? Or does it sit in like

631
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: I always.

632
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: Call it a dark comedy thriller, but that's not strictly

633
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: that's like a TV description of genre that's not and

634
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: I didn't really know that when I came into the

635
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: publishing world, and that was kind of I think that

636
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: is both the strength of the book and in a

637
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: way it has been a challenge with the not like

638
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: not a huge challenge, but it's just it's like, what

639
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: is it? But I do, I firmly do believe it's

640
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: like a dark comedy thriller. It's not squarely a crime novel.

641
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: There are crimes that happen, but I think it's also

642
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of satire in it. There's a

643
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: lot of comedy. So yeah, I again would call it

644
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: a dark comedy thriller.

645
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

646
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: That's that is actually the perfect way to describe it,

647
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: because I was trying to also do that and I

648
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh my goodness.

649
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't know where this party.

650
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I think it's been really interesting. And this

651
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: is like kind of bouncing back to the business side

652
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: of it. But when it sold in Australia, we went

653
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: to we had an auction and it was really really exciting,

654
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: and I think off the back of that, you know,

655
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: we went and tried to sell it in the US

656
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: and the UK, and it actually was we haven't sold

657
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: it in the US and the UK, which for a

658
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: while kind of I guess, like coming back to the

659
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: name of the podcast, that kind of felt like a

660
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: failure because I think there was all of this hype

661
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: around when the auction happened and I was like, oh,

662
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: it'll definitely find a publisher in the US. But I

663
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: do think the hybrid genre of it all and it

664
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: being really squarely set in Australia makes it kind of

665
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: I guess there's a question from the outside being like

666
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: what is it? And I think that that is also

667
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: its strength, But it was an interesting thing to like

668
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: come to realize through the publishing process.

669
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: I also think, and I could be totally wrong, this's

670
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: just me like spitballing, but I also think once America

671
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: can see how well it does in Australia and you

672
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: come back and you're like, he's the numbers, he's the business,

673
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: that would be great.

674
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: We with fingers grossed, that would be awesome. But also

675
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: it's like I think, and I keep going on tangents,

676
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: but I think it's interesting. It's like within Australia coming

677
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: back to that tall poppy thing, I guess, but also

678
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: looking at being a creative person. There there is this

679
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: kind of unspoken idea that if you go overseas and

680
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: have any kind of win, you can kind of come

681
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: back and you're respected in a way that you weren't

682
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: respected before. And it sucks in a way, but it's

683
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: also it is.

684
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: What it is. It's so fascinating.

685
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talk about this log It is so weird

686
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: to me, but like, so my the way you are

687
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: with Nicole Kidman, I am with Steve and legit.

688
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: STEVEO and yeah, that makes so much sense to me.

689
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: But you know, he did, like people laughed at him,

690
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: like really not make it until he got his Discovery

691
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: show in America.

692
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: Damn, I actually had no idea about that.

693
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he wouldn't get taken seriously, he was all

694
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: those handy caps. He'd be filming it all himself. He'd

695
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: like literally lodge a camera on a tree and be

696
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: like I want it's cracking, you know all that huge.

697
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: No one would no one, but you want to hear.

698
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then America was obviously like who's who's this?

699
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: We got to get him on talent Yeah, and then

700
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Australia fell in love with him.

701
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: But it was a lot of American company's bankrolled. Is

702
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: Zoo like interesting.

703
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: I had absolutely no idea about that, but that does

704
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: make sense to me.

705
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: So I've always said you got to do the Steve

706
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: You've got a yeah.

707
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: But then it's like, isn't it so funny because I

708
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: always think about, like, we're here in LA, we're mainly

709
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: here for my partner's work, but I really wanted to

710
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: come and honestly, I've always wanted to write TV. This

711
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: is a place to be for TV, so it made sense.

712
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: But it's a really funny thing thinking about, oh, you know,

713
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: in ten years, what I would really like to do

714
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: is live in fits right, And it's like I wish

715
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: that there was a clearer path to stay within Australia.

716
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like it is what

717
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: it is, you know, yeah, And I think like, and

718
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: I do want to talk the business side of it

719
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: a little bit now, and I keep getting yourself no, no,

720
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: I love I love you doing real.

721
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: Because I do think. An Australian friend came over and

722
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: said me, why why are you in l You've got

723
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: such a good career in Australia, And I was like, yeah,

724
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: opportunity in the entertainment industry, like I can't get taken

725
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: seriously as an actor in Australia and they're like, stainulane stuff.

726
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 3: You've done one thing that is so real. Yeah, that's

727
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: very very.

728
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about this.

729
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: And then like if I meet with an agent like

730
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, I'm nutritionis too, They're like, oh, amazing,

731
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: that's the resume. Yeah, and it's just like an add on.

732
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: They love a slashy over here, like you can be act,

733
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: a podcast, a writer.

734
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: In Australia.

735
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: They like, but what and so like, and I love

736
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: Australia and I both love Australia, like Australia as home,

737
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: like I see myself there again for sure. But it

738
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: is it is fascinating how much opportunity and the way

739
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: you were talking about like America and being yes to

740
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,239
Speaker 1: creativity and yes to ideas. The thing is like, if

741
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: you get one of those twenty ideas off the ground

742
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: here in a medium capacity, like when I say medium,

743
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: like whin akala.

744
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not winning an Emmy, just yeah, yeah, yeah.

745
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: You can go back home and have peak of like.

746
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like I kind of I want to

747
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 3: be proven wrong about that, but it feels like all

748
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: I see is evidence that that is actually correct. And

749
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: I also like, I guess it's changed. Maybe in the

750
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: last like ten fifteen years, we've moved more in this

751
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: direction because in Australia we watched so much US and

752
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 3: UK films television, you know, we listened to podcasts, you know,

753
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: we listen to music from overseas, and maybe like in

754
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: the early two thousands, we lived in a much more

755
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 3: sheltered media rec system. Well, I think about like the

756
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: people who were able to be like just famous within

757
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: Australia and be like a big deal. It seemed like

758
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: there were more people and we had Yeah, oh my god.

759
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: I think about all of the TV that was made

760
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: in the nineties and two thousands, you know, like things

761
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: like Kath and Kim that became massive exports, and even

762
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 3: like you know, Chris Lily, I'm like, oh, how do

763
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: I feel about that man? But you know, like the

764
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: fact that his shows reached such a large audience. It's

765
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: it's it's like an interesting time. It's really rare. I

766
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: think for things to break through now.

767
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: And I think in that time capsule of that time, you.

768
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, it's like, you know, there's there's things that

769
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: you know, we look back on now from like summ

770
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: High Tight and things I'm like, oh, man, like.

771
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: Why do you have to do that?

772
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: But there's also the great comedy in it, and I think, yeah,

773
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, we know better now, so we don't

774
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: hopefully do those things.

775
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: But I think you're right. I do think like we

776
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: I think you're bang on. I've never thought about.

777
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: Australian TV and oh so fascinating because because I do

778
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: know a lot of like Americans are like, why aren't

779
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: you in Australia like you And I'm like totally.

780
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 3: Oh my god, especially in the last couple of months,

781
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 3: it's oh my goodness. So many Americans are like why why.

782
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: Did you go?

783
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

784
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think like, and this is what's so

785
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: cool about your story, Like you did come out of

786
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: VCA and try It's not like you didn't try your best,

787
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: like I've seen your where you've written. You're like I

788
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: emailed every everybody that was a producer or working on

789
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: something that I wanted to work Like, yeah, it's not

790
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: like and saving me like I reckon, I've emailed every

791
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: acting agent.

792
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeahraliah, I'm being like he to.

793
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 3: I even like earlier this last year, so Ritual had

794
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 3: the novel That's old, it had gone to Peng when

795
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 3: we had sold the film rights, I was work actively

796
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 3: working with a production company on developing the TV series,

797
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: which I'm still working on. And at that point I

798
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I feel like I've got enough kind

799
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: of going.

800
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: And I was also I just started working.

801
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: For Shameless, which is yeah, podcasting, everyone listening to this, yeah,

802
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: and they've just been so supportive of me. But I

803
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: feel like I was a full time writer and I

804
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: had a lot of things on the boil, and my

805
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: literary agent reached out to some film and TV agents

806
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,479
Speaker 1: to kind of spook me and be like, hey, she's

807
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: you know, if this adaptation of her book gets made,

808
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be X y Z. And none of

809
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: them wanted to meet with me, and I'm like, I

810
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: can see I can see why in some ways, but here,

811
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: like I have had one meeting here with an agent

812
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: and like I wasn't even she was in motion picture.

813
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: I didn't even have a feature script, but she took

814
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: like an hour out of her day to talk to me,

815
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: and then she sent me like five feature scripts that

816
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: she thought were like in my tone of voice, because

817
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: she'd like researched me, and I'm just like, she didn't

818
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: have to do that, and she has more important things

819
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: to do. But you've told me what agency she's with,

820
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, like it's it's that is again comes

821
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: back to this, like the opportunity in the openness here

822
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: totally is so cool. You just mentioned about the book

823
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: being like the television rides.

824
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: Can you share a little bit about whatever you're comfany?

825
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, I guess I can't say too much,

826
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 3: but essentially we sold the book and then what we

827
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: actually did and I don't know if this is interesting,

828
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: but it is a bit like how the sausage is made.

829
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 3: I at that point, a dear friend of mine works

830
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: for a production company, like a quite quite reputable production

831
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 3: company in Victoria, and I had wanted to work with

832
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: her on something for ages and.

833
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: You both have bad x's and that's how you Oh, no,

834
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: that's actually the producer. I ended up working with it.

835
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 3: But the first person we sent it to was a

836
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: dear friend of mine who I just think is the best,

837
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: and she's a development producer, and her company passed on

838
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: it because they just bought something similar, and then my

839
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 3: agent and I were kind of like, we don't want

840
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: to do a broad submission in Australia just yet. We

841
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: kind of it's very early days but still figuring it out.

842
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: So we held the rights for a little bit and

843
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: we were maybe going to see what happened with the

844
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 3: US publishing rights and kind of go from there. But

845
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: then around the same time, I got a DM on

846
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: Instagram from an old friend that I had met when

847
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: I lived in Sydney when I was very sad in

848
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 3: a bad relationship. She had worked for the same company

849
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 3: as my ex boyfriend and we had met through him,

850
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: and I didn't really know, but at the time she

851
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: was having a really difficult time in her relationship and

852
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: her partner also worked at this company. So I remember

853
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: I met her and I was like, oh, I love her.

854
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: I really want to be friends with her, but we

855
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 3: kind of will only ever, like I guess we're friends

856
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: with probably more acquaintances. And then she, you know, kind

857
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: of rose up the ranks working in TV and now

858
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: works at a big company in Sydney and she's a

859
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: development producer there and she reached out to me because

860
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: one of their book scouts had heard about the book

861
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: when they were at like Frankfurt book Fair or something. Yeah,

862
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: and they had written to her and said, I think

863
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: you should try and get this manuscript. And then Laura,

864
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: my producer, was like, wait, I know Chloe, and so

865
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: she DMed me and was like, oh my god, like

866
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 3: I would love to talk about this book. And then

867
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: we ended up, you know, having a series of meetings

868
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 3: with my agent and her boss and anyway, and then

869
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 3: it ended up working out and now we're working together.

870
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 3: So it was like a really lovely I don't know, yeah,

871
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: meant to be. It felt meant to be.

872
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how can I ask, like, and this is

873
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: just probably this might be not I don't like you

874
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: the word done, but like this is just a very

875
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 1: basic question.

876
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 2: But what would you say? Is the main difference?

877
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: So like writing a novel versus writing working on some

878
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: kind of a screenplay, because they look a whole lot different.

879
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the page, they definitely do. Writing a novel,

880
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 3: you have to describe so many things.

881
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, y.

882
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: And I always like, whenever I get to the end

883
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 3: of writing a draft of a book, I'm like, oh

884
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 3: my god, I'm so sick of describe people picking up

885
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: glasses from tables. Yeah, yeah, but that is like a

886
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: kind of you know, that's one thing. But I think

887
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 3: the thing with a novel is you're writing. It's the

888
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: finished product, right, yeah, So you become like the writer

889
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 3: the producer, or not the producer. I guess the publisher

890
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: is the producer, but you're the writer, the director, of

891
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: the actors, you're everything, and when it's finished, it's a

892
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 3: finished product, Whereas when you're writing a screenplay, it's a

893
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 3: blueprint for something that will then be you know, made

894
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: into a physical thing or made into something that has

895
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 3: another form. And I think with a novel it's like,

896
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: obviously they're a lot longer, but you're dealing much more

897
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: with the characters, like interior lives. I remember when I

898
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: first started writing ritual my I think I got like

899
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: halfway through and then, you know, crazy set of circumstances.

900
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: I was contacted by a literary agent who'd read my

901
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 3: other work and he was like, oh, do you have

902
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 3: a novel, and I said, oh, I have half of one,

903
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: and we started working together.

904
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: And in the beginning, I found.

905
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: It so hard to actually like write the inner model

906
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 3: stuff because I was like oh, I just want to

907
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: get to the dialogue. That's all I want to do.

908
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: And then now it feels very different because I've spent

909
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: a lot more time doing it. But yeah, you're kind

910
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: of whereas with a film or a screenplay, television pilot,

911
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: it's like the audience is watching the thing and drawing

912
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 3: their own conclusions as to what the characters are thinking

913
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: most of the time, so there's that extra layer of

914
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: like the story being reflected, whereas in a novel it's like,

915
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 3: you know, you're drawing your conclusions as a reader, but

916
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: you also are given a lot more information on what

917
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: is happening in their interior lives.

918
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: I think, how do you how did you decide? Obviously

919
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: it's written through Many's pov right, yeah.

920
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: Novel, Yeah, it's first person, yeah right, and so like, oh,

921
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to do anything else.

922
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: This was because it can be like it can be

923
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: these different styles of writing, and you're like, and I've

924
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: read books where like different chapters of different povs too,

925
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: and I'm like, holy shit, yeah, I need my exile

926
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: spreadsheet on one side. And then like, but it was

927
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: the cool about reading through Money's POV is naturally you

928
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: pick it up and you are Maney like totally. And

929
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: because and I said this to you as soon as

930
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: I finished it, you write so visually.

931
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. Yeah, it is really easy.

932
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: To imagine Maney being hungover and wanting to chuck open cronies.

933
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: Right, it doesn't give too much away, I know.

934
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: I think that's that's fine.

935
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: And and so like you're there with my like you

936
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: were with Maney. Whether you're red with Money's choices or not,

937
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: you're there. And so it is fascinating, Like I think

938
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: first person is probably might would be my favorite way

939
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: all that.

940
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: It's yeah, sorry I cut you off.

941
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 3: It's really interesting because I did not even think about that.

942
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 3: I just started writing it and that was what came out.

943
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: And get I think it's like through the process of

944
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 3: writing and editing it, I've like I keep calling it

945
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: like my apprenticeship and like learning how to write for

946
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: a job, like as a job, because there was so

947
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 3: much that was just instinct at the beginning. And you know,

948
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: the book we went through four full drafts like start

949
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: to finish before it got to the version that's now

950
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: you know, going off to be made.

951
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. Yeah, well it is more than that.

952
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: True, and for me, it was the first time I

953
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 3: had It was the first time I had finished something

954
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: that long. But it was the first time i'd stuck

955
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: to something, you know, because I started It was like

956
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: three and a half years ago that I started it,

957
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 3: and it was the first time I'd stuck to something

958
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 3: for that long. But now I'm writing my second novel

959
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: and it's third person, and yeah, that felt really natural

960
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: to me because I was like, oh, I don't want

961
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: to do I want to do the other thing now,

962
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 3: which is interesting because yeah, I didn't think about it

963
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: in the beginning.

964
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: I like that you just said the three and a

965
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 1: half year thing, because you've also said the golf between

966
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: the idea and the follow through.

967
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've talked about that.

968
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: I love a guy, and I think that's right because

969
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: I think there is this and I don't know if

970
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: it is this, but as a creative there can be

971
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: a lot.

972
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: Of fear of failing. Yeah, you can go to school

973
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 2: and study the thing, yes, and then it's like, oh shit,

974
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 2: I'm in the big schiren to do it now.

975
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: Oh and I this is something and I'm like, it's

976
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: an interesting thing to talk about because I also am

977
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 3: like I still feel like I have so much to learn,

978
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 3: But at the same time, this is like the first

979
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 3: time in my life where I feel like I still

980
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: have so much to learn, but I also have learned

981
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: a lot, and I now feel confident enough to be

982
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 3: like I have, you know, at least a set of

983
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: I don't know I have some wisdom that I can share,

984
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 3: but I am like, I think it's I think the

985
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 3: like culture we live in with the internet makes it

986
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: seem like trying is embarrassing, and guess what it is

987
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: like it sometimes it feels really embarrassing, but it's also

988
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 3: the only way to build a career like this, and

989
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: you just like I think, particularly with books, something that

990
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 3: like a trend of the last like five or ten

991
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 3: years is like people coming out with these debut novels

992
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 3: that you know, just like absolutely explode. Everyone's like, this

993
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 3: is the best thing ever, and there's this expectation that

994
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: your debut novel has to be the best thing you'll

995
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: ever write, and it just doesn't make any sense because

996
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: it's like you've never done it before, and it's like

997
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 3: the pressure for something to be perfect and like completely

998
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: void of any faults. I mean that that is to

999
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: be perfect, but you know something that is like just

1000
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 3: completely like the embodiment of everything you've ever wanted to write,

1001
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 3: and that's just like too much pressure. So I think

1002
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 3: there's so much stuff that I, particularly in those first

1003
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: few years, like put on the internet, wrote about my life,

1004
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: you know, even stuff I've written for ABC about my

1005
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 3: personal life. I now look back on and I'm like, oof,

1006
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 3: But that was all I knew how to do at

1007
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 3: the time, and that's what got me here.

1008
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: Like, but isn't it such a beautiful thing about writing.

1009
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: I've always thought this is like a timestamp and so

1010
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: like when you do reflect and look back over it.

1011
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: What's and all, Yeah, they're actually that was the truth. Yeah,

1012
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: that was like you know, at the time, like that

1013
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: was everything. That was all I knew how to do,

1014
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 3: and I was really proud of it. And I think, yeah,

1015
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 3: I think it's it's I think a lot of people

1016
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 3: like I. Actually this is a tangent, but I was

1017
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: at the hairdresser last year before I moved here, and

1018
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 3: I was talking to this young person and they were

1019
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: like maybe maybe twenty one, twenty two, and we were

1020
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: talking about, you know, what I did for work, and

1021
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 3: they were like, wow, that's like so cool.

1022
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.

1023
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: And then they made some comment about they had a

1024
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 3: friend who really wanted to be a writer and maybe

1025
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 3: they had even like gone to VCA or something, and

1026
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, what's your friend up to, you know,

1027
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 3: and we're just chatting about writing and they were like, oh,

1028
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 3: but you know, it's just like so hard to do things.

1029
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 3: And I was like, that is so scary to me,

1030
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: because like it is really hard to do things, but

1031
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: like that's the point like being alive.

1032
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's yeah, the feeling of like not

1033
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: having that like courage to just take a jump, just

1034
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: try it.

1035
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm like.

1036
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: I also, you know, I think I look at like

1037
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: the way things have worked out thus far, and I'm like,

1038
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 3: I've been so so fortunate, but I also have like

1039
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 3: absolutely thrown so much shit at the walls and like

1040
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 3: just tried to find something that would stick. And I think, Yeah,

1041
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 3: there's a lot of luck and privilege involved, but there

1042
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: is also like a lot of yeah, failing and like

1043
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: trying to figure it out.

1044
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they always say, like, your first couple of

1045
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: gos are going to be rubbish.

1046
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: You just got to keep going and learn dust yourself

1047
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 2: off on Yeah. Next, Yeah, I could talk to you

1048
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: all flipping day we've been talking if it was like

1049
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 2: funny year. No, mate, we're at time.

1050
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: But I do want to ask you one last question,

1051
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: just for a young creative that might be listening to

1052
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: this and.

1053
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: Feel that fear but still want to take step forward.

1054
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: Is there a little bit of wisdom or a little

1055
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: bit of something you can impart.

1056
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, and I say this to

1057
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 3: myself all the time, and I've said it on my

1058
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 3: newsletter a couple of times, but stop going on so

1059
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: many websites. You just get off the internet. I think not,

1060
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 3: you know, full stop. I think it's like impossible too,

1061
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 3: But I think actually working out what you personally think

1062
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 3: and feel about things is the only way you're going

1063
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 3: to write something that matters to you. And I think

1064
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 3: being on the internet and being like completely overwhelmed by

1065
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 3: everyone else's hot takes everyone else's lives just is like

1066
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: the least horny thing for creativity. I think, yeah, it's

1067
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 3: like you need to get into that, like, yeah, really

1068
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 3: horny for creating things space.

1069
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: And I think.

1070
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: Also just like, yeah, don't be afraid to be embarrassed. Yeah,

1071
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: it's like, I know it sucks, but it's like the

1072
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: only way you're gonna learn. And like, you know, every

1073
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: time you send something off to get notes, you'll get

1074
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 3: the notes back and you'll go, oh, I really wish

1075
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 3: I could have done it perfect, but those notes will

1076
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: make you better, you grow.

1077
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1078
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: One thing I learned in acting school here is like

1079
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: I used to hold on so tight to the work

1080
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I hope the teacher knows how

1081
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: hard I worked on this totally fucked up perfection.

1082
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 3: I get for sure.

1083
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: And then this year my whole thing is like, trust, relax,

1084
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: stay open.

1085
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1086
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: And then do you know how much easier it is

1087
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: to take notes because you're like, oh yeah, how cool. Okay, yeah,

1088
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: try that on. Yeah, because it's it's a gift.

1089
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: Like and I also, we were just talking about this

1090
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,959
Speaker 3: before because your partner Matt sent me something that he wrote,

1091
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, what a joy it's to

1092
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 3: be able to like I don't.

1093
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: Know, just you know, help someone like.

1094
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: So excited about the feedback he read it all out

1095
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: loud to me.

1096
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, I know, well I thought we might.

1097
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: Have been doing that right, Like We're so good because it,

1098
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: and I think you're so giving of your energy and

1099
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: time even.

1100
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: Because it's also like I just think about I don't know.

1101
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: I just remember in.

1102
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 3: That first like year after VCA, it was just like

1103
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: so fucking hard to sorry, you said, I.

1104
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: As much as you want.

1105
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 3: It was so hard to get someone to read things

1106
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 3: and care about it. And now it's like any time

1107
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: if it's someone that I know, if it's someone I

1108
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: don't know and they send me something unsolicited, I might

1109
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: not read it. But if it's a friend and they

1110
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: say can I send you something, I most of the

1111
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,919
Speaker 3: time will be like absolutely yes, and I'll like take

1112
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: time to read it and think about it because I'm like,

1113
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: it's just I remember how it felt, you know, like yeah.

1114
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: I totally I think that's such a like good thing

1115
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: to do. I help you with books as well, and

1116
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: I'm almost just like it's such a I think it

1117
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: takes the fear out of it as well, if you're

1118
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: just like I'm gonna give you some mo like open

1119
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: feedback and supporting is like a friend of mine the

1120
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: other day was like she's like, oh, when you give

1121
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: notes to people you know, do you ever feel like

1122
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: you're being harsh, and I was like, what do you mean.

1123
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 3: She was like, well, I just got some notes from

1124
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: a friend, and this friend had just been like this

1125
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. And I

1126
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 3: was like, you got to encourage people as well.

1127
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that fine, it's that balance mine. Oh my goodness,

1128
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: my friend. I could talk to you all day long.

1129
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: You are flipp and wonderful to the listener. Ritual is

1130
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: officially out tomorrow.

1131
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: Sixth of May. We'll have to do a follow up

1132
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: part two.

1133
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like you'll have more to update

1134
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: me on.

1135
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 2: There's this there's a second book, so it is a

1136
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: second book, not a sequel, a different book. Amazing. Well,

1137
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to get my hands on that.

1138
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, thank you, and you are

1139
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: flipp and wonderful. You are.

1140
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1141
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

1142
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

1143
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram.

1144
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 2: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my work.

1145
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: For podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

1146
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rape and comment, and of

1147
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: course spread the love.