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Speaker 1: Hello, Katie Wolf and three point sixty online at Mix

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Speaker 1: one O four nine dot com.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in the studio this morning is Deb Dinatali

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Speaker 2: from the NT Council of Social Services.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to your deb.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: It's great to have you in the studio. And and well,

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Speaker 2: I think we caught up around this time last year

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Speaker 2: as well, before the Northern Territory budget.

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Speaker 1: Was handed down. We did, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about that in just a couple of moments.

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Speaker 2: But I know that the NT course has been one

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Speaker 2: of the groups that had been opposed to Dan Murphy's

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Speaker 2: entering the market here in the Northern Territory. What was

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Speaker 2: the reaction to that decision from Wilworth's yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Well, we see that reaction as a win. Certainly, we

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Speaker 3: are extremely pleased for the Northern Territory. I understand it's

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Speaker 3: a highly controversial position for a number of people across

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Speaker 3: the territory. But when you look at an evidence space

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Speaker 3: across US, so if you look at Territorians, we actually

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Speaker 3: drink more than any other state or terror in Australia.

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Speaker 3: So that's a really clear indicator that there's no shortage

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Speaker 3: of alcohol here, and there are plenty of alcohol outlets

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Speaker 3: because we've got access to so many. We also know

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Speaker 3: the social harms that we have as a result of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: So when I have people, even some neighbors, saying to me,

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Speaker 3: it's not fair, we're missing out, Actually my response to

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Speaker 3: those people is that you're also saying that you want

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Speaker 3: to live somewhere that's really, really safe. And sixty six

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Speaker 3: percent of assaults across the territory are as a result

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Speaker 3: of alcohol fueled violence.

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Speaker 2: Stare by no, There'll be pleased people listening right now

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Speaker 2: thinking to themselves, stopping Dan Murphy's is not going.

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Speaker 1: To stop those alcohol issues that we've got.

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Speaker 3: Well, what it will do is it won't increase the

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Speaker 3: alcohol issues. So what we do know is that if

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Speaker 3: you have a megastore, which is what we're talking about,

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Speaker 3: a warehouse, we know the Dan Murphy's model, which is

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Speaker 3: get as much alcohol in and get as much out

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Speaker 3: as possible, that will absolutely increase the social harms across

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Speaker 3: the community. And in fact, an independent liquor commission came

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Speaker 3: up with exactly that result. There should be no Dan

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Speaker 3: Murphy's step.

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Speaker 1: Do you really reckon though?

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Speaker 2: This is the end of Dan Murphy's or Woolworths expanding

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Speaker 2: their liquor outlets in the territory.

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Speaker 3: I would like to think that this is definitely a

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Speaker 3: sign that Woolworths is exercising its corporate social responsibility. It

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Speaker 3: has listened to the Aboriginal leaders and grandmothers and mothers

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Speaker 3: who have really been the heroes here in terms of

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Speaker 3: their advocacy talking about the impacts it's having on their communities.

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Speaker 3: And I think now we are in a corporate environment

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Speaker 3: where a number of shareholders have come to the table

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Speaker 3: as well, and we've been working with those shareholders. So

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Speaker 3: Woolworths would need to think very very carefully about their

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Speaker 3: next step because right now we're seeing that this is

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Speaker 3: leadership on their part in terms of listening to the

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Speaker 3: Aboriginal leaders in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: At the moment in the territory, we seem to have

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Speaker 2: a real issue with that alcohol misuse.

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Speaker 1: There is no doubt about that.

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Speaker 2: We know that the council banned alcohol mindle Beach earlier

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Speaker 2: in the week due to some of that real misuse

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing. There's been discussion about that being as

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Speaker 2: a result of an increase in payments, some of those

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Speaker 2: COVID payments. What's your response to that discussion, and do

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Speaker 2: you think that that is what's happening here? Do you

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Speaker 2: think that that increased money that's coming into the community

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Speaker 2: is being used on alcohol?

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Speaker 3: Look, Katie, we haven't got the evidence to show us

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Speaker 3: that that is the case. What we do know in

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Speaker 3: terms of hard data is that when the COVID supplement

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Speaker 3: came in, those remote communities had seventy five percent increase

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Speaker 3: in fresh fruit and vegetables. And we also know there

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Speaker 3: was an incredible increase in terms of the purchase of

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Speaker 3: white goods. So I still need to be persuaded in

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Speaker 3: terms of some genuine data that comes out to demonstrate

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Speaker 3: that money is being spent on alcohol.

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Speaker 1: What do you reckon's happening at the moment? Then? What

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Speaker 1: would you you know?

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Speaker 2: What would you attribute those additional visitors to town and

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Speaker 2: that you know that seemingly quite obvious use of or

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Speaker 2: misuse I would say of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think in lots of ways we demonize a

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Speaker 3: lot of public drinking. I think that in terms of

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Speaker 3: middle class households, they're consuming large proportions of alcohol, but

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Speaker 3: they have the benefit and the luxury and the privilege

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Speaker 3: to do it in their homes. So I think this

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Speaker 3: idea of people consuming alcohol in a public space and

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Speaker 3: that being very negative. I see that that debate has

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Speaker 3: really been driven by a number of factors, including poverty.

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Speaker 2: What about though, when you've got that real you know,

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Speaker 2: when you've actually got the people fighting and becoming violent

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Speaker 2: in those public spaces.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when you've got I mean, violence is not acceptable anywhere.

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Speaker 3: And this has been our exact argument in relation to

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Speaker 3: the Dan Murphys. Having a megastore that would provide more alcohol,

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Speaker 3: easier access, and cheaper prices to a number of territorians

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Speaker 3: will actually make the territory less safe. We will see

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Speaker 3: more assaults, we will see more robberies, and we will

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Speaker 3: see more breaches of domestic family violence orders. We know

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Speaker 3: that seventy four percent of those breaches are often alcohol driven.

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Speaker 3: And I know that domestic violence stems from gender inequality,

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Speaker 3: but alcohol is definitely a driver there.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Look, I know there'll be some people listening this

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Speaker 2: morning who don't agree with what you've got to say,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's really important for all of us

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Speaker 2: to hear every perspective. You know, no matter what debate

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Speaker 2: we're having. I do want to ask you though about

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Speaker 2: the budget. We know that it's being handed down next

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Speaker 2: week and it's going to make for some interesting reading.

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Speaker 2: I guess you'd say everybody is sort of anticipating that

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Speaker 2: we're going to have quite.

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Speaker 1: High levels of debt.

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Speaker 2: But there's been quite a bit of discussion around Australia

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Speaker 2: as well about making sure that you know that Aussie's

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Speaker 2: and certainly territorians don't get left behind. So when we

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Speaker 2: specifically talk about the Northern Territory budget next week, what

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Speaker 2: do you think needs to be included.

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Speaker 3: Well, we know that a number of Territorians are doing

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Speaker 3: it tough. You are probably aware that the Causes around

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Speaker 3: the country ran a campaign not as successful as you

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Speaker 3: would have liked it to be. Around people who are

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Speaker 3: on job seeker that living on forty dollars a day

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Speaker 3: is not enough. So when you see people who are

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Speaker 3: sleeping rough and who don't have enough to eat, you

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Speaker 3: need to think about the income that they're getting, which.

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Speaker 1: Is forty dollars a day.

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Speaker 3: That increase was three dollars fifty, so now they're living

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Speaker 3: on forty three dollars fifty a day. Marginal increase, not

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Speaker 3: really going to have any benefit in terms of getting

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Speaker 3: people out of poverty.

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Speaker 1: So for us, it's.

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Speaker 3: Actually about ensuring that with these territorians who are doing

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Speaker 3: it tough, that the budget delivers an equitable distribution so

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Speaker 3: that we're able to ensure that no one's left behind.

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Speaker 3: One of the things I will say about the social

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Speaker 3: services sector is we are a major contributor to the economy.

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Speaker 3: Six hundred and fifteen point five million dollars of our

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Speaker 3: sector wages goes directly back into the economy every year.

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Speaker 3: So when you hear people say we need to be

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Speaker 3: shopping locally, you need to be going to your IgA,

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Speaker 3: you need to be supporting your local industry, you need

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Speaker 3: to be going out to the waterfront and supporting those restaurants.

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Speaker 3: The way that that happens is by supporting the social

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Speaker 3: services sector. The other benefit there is not only are

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Speaker 3: we a major driver in terms of the economy, we

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Speaker 3: provide real benefits to people who are doing it tough.

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Speaker 3: So it's like a win win.

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Speaker 2: So when people are listening right now and they're thinking, well,

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Speaker 2: what exactly is the social services sector, who do you

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Speaker 2: mean and how do you mean you need to support them?

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Speaker 1: What's your answer?

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Speaker 3: To that, Yeah, really good question. I often assume that

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Speaker 3: people know who we are and what we do. So

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Speaker 3: a number of those people who are experiencing homelessness, people

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Speaker 3: who are going to safe houses as a result of domestic,

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Speaker 3: family and sexual violence, a number of health services, a

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Speaker 3: number of organizations that are operating out in remote communities,

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Speaker 3: a number of community legal centers who are assisting people

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Speaker 3: get free legal advice so that they know what their

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Speaker 3: rights are. The list does go on mental health, and

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Speaker 3: also the other area is the Aboriginal justice work that

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Speaker 3: we've been doing to ensure that we get better outcomes

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Speaker 3: in that space too.

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Speaker 2: So, dev what do you reckon What do you think

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Speaker 2: is going to be in the Northern Territory budget for

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Speaker 2: that sector.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, we are hoping to see an increase. We've

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Speaker 3: been pretty disappointed at the moment. We're worried to see

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Speaker 3: the announcement like the ongoing boost to mining which is

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Speaker 3: now an ongoing boost of three million that's now gone

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Speaker 3: to nine point five million every year, which is nine

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Speaker 3: point five million of five taxpayer money, and the return

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Speaker 3: to the territory on that kind of investment is really

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Speaker 3: hard to see. But I do want your listeners to

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Speaker 3: hear that there have been some positive steps. So if

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Speaker 3: you compare that to the news of two million dollars

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Speaker 3: over two years to improve reliable electricity to remote communities

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Speaker 3: in the NT, that investment does a number of things.

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Speaker 3: It increases jobs, it ensures that people's fridges are working properly,

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Speaker 3: and it means that people can charge their phones. So

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Speaker 3: that's the sort of stuff that changes lives. So what

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Speaker 3: we want to see is investment in the territory where

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Speaker 3: all territory ands benefit from economic development.

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Speaker 2: Dev Are you going to have a bit of a

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Speaker 2: scorecard for the government after the budget's handed down on

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Speaker 2: Tuesday or how does it all work? How are you

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Speaker 2: going to determine whether they've done or right in your eyes?

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Speaker 3: So what we're not going to have we have a

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Speaker 3: scorecard only pre election and that takes much more work

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Speaker 3: than then. I'm sure the five little dot points would.

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Speaker 1: Well, we might just.

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Speaker 2: Keep you back on and ask you what you think

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Speaker 2: because we usually catch up with those business and industry

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Speaker 2: groups and I do think it's important to catch up

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Speaker 2: with the social services sector as well.

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Speaker 3: So happy to give you a budget wrap up on

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Speaker 3: what we think that the government has delivered to the

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Speaker 3: Social services in the next budget.

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Speaker 2: Demp De Natalie always good to catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time this morning. Or

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Speaker 2: Chime and deb is from the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Council of Social Services