1
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 1: Mom always always, sir, be careful, love those.

2
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 2: Umboo let We'll use your head.

3
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:33,840
Speaker 1: They will tear you lack a paper talk. Oh no, no, no, yeah,

4
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no. Hi. I'm Amanda

5
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: and I'm Remy.

6
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 2: Welcome to It's layer.

7
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,200
Speaker 1: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

8
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: years ago when we were in high school.

9
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 2: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

10
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 2: and everything else under the sun.

11
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.

12
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,559
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, yeah, yeah yeah. How are you inmbe

13
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 1: since we last spoke. I'm good. I'm good. How are

14
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: you as I sip up my coffee?

15
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 2: Oh coffee nice?

16
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: No, I'm good.

17
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,839
Speaker 2: You know, we we've talked so much about so many

18
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 2: different topics this season, and I feel like we keep

19
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 2: circling around this one and we keep kind of like

20
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 2: going for it but not but then mentioning it. And

21
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 2: obviously it's religion.

22
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: What are you, amen, girl, We're coming for the church.

23
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: Jesus our Father, please forgive us. But it's not about you,

24
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: the construct around. What's the definition of religion to you?

25
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 1: I think religion is organized practices to perform certain ritual,

26
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 1: certain activities as a group, a specific group of people

27
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 1: that identify with this religion and perform the practices to

28
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 1: worship their chosen deity, God whoever. So it's a it's

29
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 1: a human constructed practice, you know, it's not necessarily a

30
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,520
Speaker 1: deity or you know, a god. God constructs. Yeah, and

31
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 1: for you, I no, no, no, you definitely did.

32
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 2: And all I could say additionally is I feel like

33
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,920
Speaker 2: it also bleeds into social constructs and identity constructs. So

34
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 2: people will be like, oh, I'm a Christian, and when

35
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,920
Speaker 2: you say that, that gives that person saying it too,

36
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 2: an idea of who you are or what you're about,

37
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 2: you know. So it's been been very long standing obviously.

38
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 2: I think it's since really beginning of time, since we started.

39
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: And there are men, many, many religions I think definitely, Yeah,

40
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 1: they are numerous, but I think from where we come from,

41
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,119
Speaker 1: it's like maybe they're too, you know what I mean,

42
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 1: Like it's you're a Christian or maybe Muslim. Yeah, it's really,

43
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,000
Speaker 1: but there are many other, many other religions that fall

44
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 1: under the spectrum. Do you describe yourself as religious?

45
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 2: Am when I was younger, Yes, And I'll probably say

46
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 2: as I have lived in Australia for longer and longer,

47
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 2: it's becoming more and more of a No, I'm becoming

48
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 2: more spiritual than religious, and the big difference being that

49
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 2: I don't really live in someone's box. So like with religion,

50
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you do this and do that and

51
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 2: do this. You know, in these rules and this as

52
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 2: exactly as you said before when you were describing it,

53
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 2: and I'm less and less that, Like I don't have

54
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,320
Speaker 2: to go to Mass at nine am to say, oh,

55
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm praying, you know what I mean?

56
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, yeah, I just thought when you're

57
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 1: saying that, I was thinking of Kirk Franklin. He had

58
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 1: an album called Losing My Religion. He was shook in

59
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,440
Speaker 1: the church and like, what, sorry, what are you doing?

60
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:26,720
Speaker 1: What my guy? Losing religion? Then, as a rat, I

61
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:34,039
Speaker 1: think I identify as religious to an extent because I

62
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: practice certain Christian sort of rituals. However, I definitely lean

63
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,239
Speaker 1: more to the spirituality side of things. Yeah, I pray,

64
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 1: I read the Bible sometimes I fast things like that,

65
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 1: but I definitely believe in the more spiritual side of things.

66
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 1: So you're like, do it your way, yes, doing it

67
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 1: my way, Yeah, I think so. But being Zimbabwe, why

68
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,160
Speaker 1: do you think being Zimbabwe and why do why are

69
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: we so religious as a nation? Why is that?

70
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 2: Similar to what you said before? But but what's his name? King?

71
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 2: Are saying always blaming it on slavery, I blame it

72
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 2: on colonial listen like literally, yeah, I think I personally

73
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 2: think for me, religion ties in all themn things we've

74
00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 2: been talking about. You know, it ties in it. It

75
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 2: is elitist. People think they're better than It is classiest

76
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 2: because even within the church there is the hierarchy. It

77
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 2: is about comparison, like, oh they do this, we do this.

78
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 2: It is uh some form of patriarchy you know some

79
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,040
Speaker 2: some some denominations with and with this religions don't allow

80
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: women to be priests or yep, pastors or so. I

81
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,760
Speaker 2: feel like it just ties in African parenting a lot

82
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 2: of times because it ties well with.

83
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 1: Listen to me, discipline, do this, you know the rod

84
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 1: and spoil the child. If you grew up in religious household,

85
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 1: you know what that means exactly.

86
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 2: So I feel like it just it's like the granddaddy of.

87
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 1: All these things we've been talking about. It just takes

88
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: it all.

89
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 2: You know, food, you can only eat certain food. Fashion,

90
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,599
Speaker 2: you can only like girl. Which topic have we've done that?

91
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 2: Religion cannot be You shouldn't listen to some you shouldn't

92
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 2: read certain books, film and film.

93
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,359
Speaker 1: Don't want to be watching films, social media?

94
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 2: You actually, so every episode we've done is like religion.

95
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 3: Just be there knocking on the door. It head, don't

96
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 3: forget about me. Oh gosh, sorry, we having a moment.

97
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but why do you think we're so religious? Because

98
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: can you explain? You said it, you said it, you

99
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 1: said it, you said it. And I think we've touched

100
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: on all the other time, like we lost our culture,

101
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: so then we took this one thing and we're like,

102
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 1: we ain't letting go of this one. And I think too,

103
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 1: religion is so big because in general, as black people,

104
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: even Black Americans, they have had to live through slavery.

105
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 1: Africans we lived through colonialism and losing a lot of

106
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 1: our identity and a lot of suffering and pain. And

107
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: then you throw in finances, which is again the economic

108
00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,000
Speaker 1: factors of what Zimbabwe has gone through. We need something

109
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: to believe in, We need some someone to believe in,

110
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: and unfortunately we don't believe we can believe in God

111
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: alone and do it our way. We need someone to

112
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: guide us to how to do things with God, hence religion.

113
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 1: And we've held on so tight that bond be strong,

114
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: covalent bond? Is that the strongest one? In science? Sorry,

115
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: you did chemistry? Remember how do you do? But then bright,

116
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,439
Speaker 1: I don't know because that was not Yeah.

117
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I go sign And I feel like religion because

118
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 2: it seeps into everything is almost like the backstops there,

119
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, because then your parents can be like Marie,

120
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 2: Actually hmmm, so it's like that's the last yeah you know, yeah, man, yeah, wow,

121
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 2: it'd be deep.

122
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 1: This thing be deep in in US society. Obviously being

123
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 1: Zimbabwean or even being Zimbabwean.

124
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 2: Diaspora, do you see any benefits to being religious, like

125
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 2: when you look back, you know, life in Zimbabwe, even

126
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 2: your life outside of Zim or any drawback.

127
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 1: Well, if you know, the funny thing is if you

128
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,679
Speaker 1: went to church, you were seen as a good girl.

129
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: So Zimbabwe being what Zimbabwe is the two faced how

130
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 1: people like to be like two face? It works because

131
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 1: if I'm seen as going to chech, people be like

132
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 1: this is a respectable girl, a good girl. So what

133
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 1: I do behind closed doors at night in the streets.

134
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 1: No one can really question as much because I'll be

135
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 1: going to church every weekend. You see me, They're sitting

136
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: there and praying and you know what I mean. So

137
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: it serves and benefits you. It makes you look like

138
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 1: a wife of bowl material because you can uphold the family,

139
00:09:53,800 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 1: the household, home, what what you are seen as some

140
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 1: one who a good child, a good woman, a good person,

141
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: a good good good And yeah, I think it lets

142
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 1: you in some rooms in Zimbabwe for sure, so yeah,

143
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 1: but I don't know about now. Living in the diaspora,

144
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,679
Speaker 1: it's a different ballgame because I live in a country

145
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 1: where religion was very There was a lot of sort

146
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,840
Speaker 1: of persecution for religion and a communism when the country

147
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 1: was under communism. It is no longer under communism. A

148
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: lot of people think that it is, but it's just not.

149
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: They were not allowed to be religious. Religion was kind

150
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,320
Speaker 1: of questioned, so they had to take a step back,

151
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: and people are afraid to be religious, so it's not

152
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 1: seen as in that light. So it's been quite an

153
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 1: interesting contrast. It's like almost opposite. Yeah, Like for example,

154
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,559
Speaker 1: our pastor who married us when I was explaining to

155
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 1: him how classes back home are really revered and given

156
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 1: the most respectable seed and and and and he's like,

157
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: oh here, it's like people look at you like pasta,

158
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: like what are you doing? What are you doing with

159
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,680
Speaker 1: your life? So just that contrast what life? Yeah, yeah,

160
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: I know for sure, So I don't know you what

161
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 1: about for you?

162
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 2: On a personal level, the benefits of me having come

163
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:28,000
Speaker 2: from a religious background is community. Yeah, because like even

164
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,040
Speaker 2: our family friends, a lot of them sleep from church,

165
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,920
Speaker 2: you know, going to Sunday School. A lot of some

166
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 2: of my friends that didn't necessarily go to school with

167
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 2: I went to Sunday School with, you know, especially from

168
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:39,960
Speaker 2: other schools.

169
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm still in contact.

170
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 2: So I feel like and I remember, even when I

171
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,440
Speaker 2: came to Australia, one of the first things my dad

172
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,839
Speaker 2: did a piece of advice, oh, jacket church, you know,

173
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 2: because you then assumed if a church takes you under

174
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 2: the wing, you have that community. If you get into trouble,

175
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 2: if you to move house, yeah you were sorted. So it's

176
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 2: a family apart from your own family, a family away

177
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 2: from family. So I think that was a major benefit

178
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 2: of it, Like even just from a social construct, from

179
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 2: just having being sociable with people who were like minded

180
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 2: quote unquote, and without having to dig deep to find

181
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 2: out if you're like minded or not, because you're like, oh,

182
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,200
Speaker 2: we all go the same church, so we all obviously

183
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 2: prescribed to the same way of life. The drawbacks though,

184
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,480
Speaker 2: is girl, this whole podcast, you can finish the whole episode.

185
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,559
Speaker 2: For me, it's the judgment if you're not going to

186
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 2: be in those So it's almost like the opposite of

187
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 2: what I just said. It's like, if you're not gonna

188
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 2: want to be part of that community or live differently

189
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,959
Speaker 2: to that community, then religion is the first.

190
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,199
Speaker 1: Thing to try to get you, whip you back into shape,

191
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 1: you know.

192
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 2: And I feel like that's a major drawback because we're

193
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:48,559
Speaker 2: not all the same.

194
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,079
Speaker 1: We don't want to require the same things out of life.

195
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 2: We're not all going to lead the same lives and

196
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 2: to expect us to do. So that's why people try

197
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 2: to like do things behind closed doors, because they try

198
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 2: not They try to live their true selves but then

199
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,479
Speaker 2: pretend like, oh, yeah, but I'm still And that dichotomy

200
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,319
Speaker 2: is a major problematic of religion.

201
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 1: Problematic. Yeah, yeah, for sure, living these two lives and

202
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 1: people thinking that the religion washes away the bad person

203
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 1: or the bad the negative side of people, and it

204
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 1: doesn't people hiding behind that. I've literally been to church

205
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 1: and be like this do be preaching and like you

206
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like literally yea, yeah, yeah that

207
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 1: because it's like the way people live and who they

208
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 1: are in churches, you can't marry the two, yeah, which

209
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: makes it hard for people from outside to outside the church.

210
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 1: And here we're speaking specifically about church because that's what

211
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 1: we know growing up, are like why would you go

212
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,079
Speaker 1: to church if that person you listen to that person

213
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,439
Speaker 1: at church and then you know, and I've seen them

214
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: doing this yeah yeah, yeah, So contrast that people struggle

215
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: to marry. And it's one of the many many drawbacks,

216
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 1: and I think one of the many the biggest back

217
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 1: of religion is how we present the world and how

218
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 1: exclusisive it comes across. Oftentimes you know, you can't well

219
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,959
Speaker 1: you can't sit with us and with us energy and

220
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: like you know, you church goers are you you guys

221
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: are you can't have jontit with us if I do this,

222
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: I can't come to church if I do. And it's

223
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: the opposite of what essentially a church is supposed to

224
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:30,280
Speaker 1: mean to be it's completely for sure opposite. What are

225
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 1: the expectations for you growing up in a religious household.

226
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 2: To do everything perfectly? Like you know, no sins, no nothing,

227
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: Everything's done, you know, as expected. I feel like as

228
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 2: a cop out, we talked about African parenting. Why it

229
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 2: ties so closely with religion is because it's a set

230
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 2: of rules, you know, the ten commandments that you can

231
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 2: you have to live like this, and then if you

232
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 2: do this, and if you don't live in these boundaries,

233
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 2: I'll discipline, you know what I mean. So I feel

234
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 2: like it's so it works hand in hand because then

235
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,960
Speaker 2: our parents can almost take a step back and just

236
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 2: blame it on the Bible, you know, blame it on

237
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 2: the it's not the right way to live.

238
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: Jesus didn't live like this, you know.

239
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 2: And it's like all those things where it doesn't it

240
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 2: doesn't invite conversation, it doesn't invite nuance, it doesn't invite choice.

241
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 2: But it's like, oh no, that's just the way it is,

242
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,040
Speaker 2: full stop the Bible system, you know, and like it's

243
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 2: like okay, I mean there's some stuff that's like obviously,

244
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 2: don't don't steal don't kill like some stuff that's just

245
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 2: but I find a lot of stuff. It's like, I

246
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 2: want to discuss this a bit. Why can't we discuss

247
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 2: this a bit?

248
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 1: You know?

249
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 2: And yet it's like clear cut where it's like, no,

250
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 2: just follow it and that's it, no questions asked.

251
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 1: And you start also wondering what's wrong with me? If

252
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 1: you do falter, it's like, yeah, what's wrong with me?

253
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: I have failed? And it creates this this high expectation

254
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 1: that you could never ever meet and you're like, but

255
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: the one is wrong with me? And it's so difficult

256
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 1: to meet and marry. And also the expectations make it

257
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 1: hard for you to truly understand what is a relationship

258
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 1: with God supposed to be because it's yeah, these rules

259
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 1: I must not I must and you start seeing him

260
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: as it's like, don't do this, don't do that, prestipinarian,

261
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 1: Yes exactly. So, yeah, are they wanted these expectations.

262
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 2: In a word, No, I don't think so. I don't know,

263
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 2: maybe because I'm someone who's outside of that box now,

264
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: so it's amost like, well, I don't think in any

265
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 2: way which will form someone else is better than or

266
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 2: doing things better than yeah. So, and also again, if

267
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 2: you expect me to be perfect, are they going to be?

268
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: Because by nature we aren't.

269
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

270
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 2: So it's almost like are we setting, as you said before,

271
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 2: a bar that's way too high?

272
00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

273
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 2: You know, are we better just being real with each

274
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 2: other and dealing with how to come back in under

275
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 2: the fray of religion or whatever, rather than starting so

276
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 2: strict and then expecting like you know, and it almost

277
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 2: pushes a lot of bad habits as well, gossiping, you know,

278
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 2: watching what everyone else is doing, all those things which

279
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,439
Speaker 2: are not typically things that you should be doing in

280
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,160
Speaker 2: a spiritual sense. So it's like because people are only

281
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 2: doing that because they want to like make sure everyone's following. Yes,

282
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,919
Speaker 2: these strict rooms and protocols being policed.

283
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: I girl, girl, and you I've grown up in a

284
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 1: very in very religious circles and it is such as

285
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 1: so crushing and so it instead of doing good for

286
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 1: your soul, Like you can come out of a sermon

287
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 1: and feel the God on your heart and step into

288
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: certain rooms and you're just like, what is going on here?

289
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: I think there's a huge hindrance of these expectations you're

290
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,959
Speaker 1: not supposed to. As Amanda said, earlier, look like this,

291
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: dress like this, do that be seen here? Seen with

292
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: this person, and you're just like Yo's. It creates a

293
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: lot of sort of cliques within the community that's supposed

294
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 1: to be knighted. It creates a lot of judgment, as

295
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 1: Amanda says, and it creates a lot of conflict in

296
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 1: a conflict for people trying to find way. But I

297
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: would step into church and feel like, what, I don't

298
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 1: belong here.

299
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 2: And shame and shame because you realize you're not meeting

300
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 2: the UK.

301
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, And I'm grateful that I had a strong

302
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: sense of me for the most part, that I could

303
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 1: still be in those spaces and still maintain me. But

304
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 1: it's very hard to be that at all.

305
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 2: What is it taught you?

306
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 1: I think religion has taught me that God is God

307
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: is forgiving, because if we can show up in our

308
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: flawed ways and create these flawed structures and He still

309
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 1: loves us, he must be loving. I don't know how

310
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: to explain it. Is this realization that wow, he really

311
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 1: is not this because he's not shooting us all down

312
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,640
Speaker 1: saying you guys are doing it wrong. Blah blah blah

313
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: blah blah. I'm taking you down. He allows us to

314
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: falter and you know, kind of veil. It's taught me

315
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 1: that God is misrepresented in a lot of spaces, and

316
00:19:52,920 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: it's really unfortunate, but yeah, he is misrepresented and unfortunately

317
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 1: a lot of religions don't paint him in the right light.

318
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 1: It has taught to me that you can find God anywhere,

319
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: because you cannot depend on a religious building building to

320
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 1: be with God. He is everywhere, and I think that

321
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: doesn't serve maybe some of the desires of religious institutions

322
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 1: of wanting you to be in a specific room with

323
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: specific people, but He really is everywhere. It has taught me.

324
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: It has given me hope, for sure. I think it

325
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 1: has because as much as it has its flaws, religion

326
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: is what introduced me to who God is, and there's

327
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: no denying that. And I've learned hope through knowing God.

328
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: I have learned how to believe, even in like the

329
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: most darkest situations, that there will be a brighter day tomorrow.

330
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: It has taught me that God does not favor Just

331
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: because you say you are a religious person doesn't mean

332
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: that He's gonna, like not shine a light on someone

333
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: who is not quote unquote religious. It has taught me

334
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: that God shows up in different ways, or the sovereign being,

335
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: or the universe shows up in different ways to different people.

336
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: It is not selective that because you are a Christian

337
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: you are going to get all the blessings. There's no

338
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: such thing like it's you know, I don't know, Like, yeah,

339
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: it taught me a lot good and bad. And what

340
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: about for you?

341
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

342
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 1: I think for me, I definitely I have to agree.

343
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 2: I agree with everything you said, you know, especially when

344
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: it comes to having that grit. You know, a lot

345
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: of stories, especially particularly in the Christian sense, A lot

346
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: of the stories, things didn't come easy. Yes, you know,

347
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: they had to fight for it, whether it's you know,

348
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: all the people, the prophets or whatever it is you

349
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 2: think of, a lot of them have a backstory, Yes,

350
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 2: you know. And I think it's taught me that there's more,

351
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,959
Speaker 2: always more to people than what you see at face value.

352
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 2: But having said that, it also has taught me negatively

353
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 2: that people can have a herd mentality like yes.

354
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: We just follow You're like why are you just following?

355
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: Question things?

356
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 2: Stop and take stock of what's happening, and don't just

357
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: put someone on a pedestal just because just you know,

358
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: they can quote the Bible more than you or so

359
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it. And you think of cults,

360
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of cults are step off religion.

361
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: And I think it's just it's got a bad rep

362
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: now in a lot of ways because our humanity has

363
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: shown through.

364
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a pure, beautiful thing.

365
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: When it was first constructed, I'm sure and was meant

366
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: to pick people on line and keep people part of

367
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: a community, but in some ways it's done the opposite

368
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 2: and make people divided and divisive and argumentative. And we're

369
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: better than this. And where you know, you think about

370
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, Islam and Christianity and all this and all

371
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: these I mean a lot a lot of the conference

372
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 2: we have right now are centered around religion or religious

373
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: groups and you're like, why are you not? You know,

374
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 2: we pray to the same god, but why aren't you

375
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 2: you know. So it's like I think it's told me

376
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,239
Speaker 2: that as much as from all this purity and all

377
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: this well intent, humans are still humans and we can

378
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: if things up like because we miss it all up,

379
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: you know.

380
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, and the grace that we're too is like

381
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: we put people on a pedestal, and then the next

382
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: day they can be dropped thee as the prophet jay

383
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: Z Sean jay Z Carter said, with the same sort

384
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: they knight you, They're gone, good night you. It's like

385
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: one day you're on this pedestal where this is amazing,

386
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: and then the next day you're cut off. It's it's

387
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: such a twisted, twisted, twisted world that we live in.

388
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: So I agree and completely.

389
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 2: If you could change one thing about it, though, having

390
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: said all of that, what would it.

391
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: Be and why only one? Oh?

392
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well girl, we can have a whole hour

393
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: talking about.

394
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: Choose one. I think this idea that only one religion

395
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: can know God and have the right avenue to God, which,

396
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: as you said, is the reason why we have a

397
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: lot of these confidence because my way is the right

398
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: way and the only way. It's like nah, b like,

399
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: there's different ways. So I definitely think that no, like

400
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: the ownership thing of this is the right way to

401
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: do things. I would change that big time. And I

402
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: think I would change the mentality of you have to

403
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: be perfect to be religious. Yeah, perfectionism is a thing, man,

404
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: the opposite. The reason why you go is because you

405
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: know your flaws and you need Yeah two there was one.

406
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, non girl, I allow it.

407
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: I love it for you.

408
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: I think for me, it's the what you brought up

409
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: before that you can't sit with us energy, the exclusivity

410
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 2: you know that you're not good enough, the your you know,

411
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: and that's all actually perpetuated by the people within that

412
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: religion group rather than you know, or if you do

413
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: this stuff, you can absorb yourself of you know. Like

414
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like, people still have to do the work.

415
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: You can't just say to someone, oh, pray and everything's forgiven.

416
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: If it's like a bad habit that you have or

417
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: something that you keep doing repeatedly, It's just it takes

418
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: a bit more than just pray.

419
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: You need to also do the work to change those

420
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: you know.

421
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 2: Like I mean, because people all the things you've talked

422
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: about as the season has gone, you know, domestic violence

423
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 2: and all these people, most of them in religion, praying

424
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: every Sunday with these people, but then they go into

425
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: something else Monday to Saturday.

426
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: You know.

427
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: So it's like that where I'm like, we can't really

428
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 2: take accountability. And I wish that religion would make people

429
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 2: as much as we're saying, you know, they call you

430
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: out sometimes it depends on who you are, it depends

431
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: on the story around it. Ye, it's very selective, you know.

432
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: And I would love if people were just all treated

433
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: the same equally, you know, because I think then that

434
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: would drive because this whole hierarchy within the church or mining,

435
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 2: he plays more than mining.

436
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: Let's respect her. More is just money. And let me

437
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: tell you, in religion, that money thing is the thing.

438
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: They try to act like it ain't, but it is.

439
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: So the person who looks nicer has a nicer car,

440
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: and I gets nicer places, doesn't get called out on

441
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: their bs because and it's like, isn't it's not what

442
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be doing? But yes, for sure.

443
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

444
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: And what do you think about it being used religion

445
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: being used as a means of control.

446
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: I think it's the best, one of the best ways

447
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: to control people.

448
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: Because earlier you said it gives guidelines on how n

449
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: SH lives without saying any lines and control are two

450
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: different things.

451
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: M But I feel like the guidelines are control link

452
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: because it's not almost like you know you need to

453
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: do better.

454
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: You know you need to because.

455
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 2: You know the Bible, this particular religion says do this,

456
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: do that?

457
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: Why are you doing this?

458
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: So I feel like for people who don't subscribe to

459
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: that way of thinking or live varied lives compared to

460
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: the majority in that religion, it's like, yeah, the control

461
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: aspect you under my thumb, you know, don't break free,

462
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: you know what to do, you know what? And then

463
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: they make it feel bad, right, you know, this is

464
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 2: the right way to be. It's the only way to be.

465
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: Is how it sounds like to me. It doesn't sound

466
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: like it's right. It's just about it being the only way.

467
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: Even within communities, you know, people like saying like watching

468
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: over people, judging people, all that stuff is just to

469
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: control you to behave in a certain way. Yeah, that's

470
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: been predestined, right, I don't have a choice. Yeah, especially

471
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: when it comes to Zimbabweans and or any colonized countries,

472
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: because this really wasn't the way of our forefathers. So

473
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: it's the ultimate control.

474
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: I can't I couldn't say more like you've hit the

475
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: nail on the on the head with that when it's

476
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: and it's scary because if you you know, the whole

477
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: idea of being in a group is safe and the

478
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: threat of being ousted right, Like, it's it's the fear,

479
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: so it keeps people within this.

480
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and people some people go as bad as

481
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: if you miss a Sunday service or Saturday service, they'll

482
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: be like.

483
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: Where were you?

484
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's likely bruh you kind of yes, And it's

485
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: not said from It's not even said from a concern point.

486
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: If you're said from like a ticking a register. Yes,

487
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: like you know, you need to explain yourself where were

488
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: you and your kids?

489
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: Why didn't you make it?

490
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: You know? So it's I feel like also the control

491
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: has layers to it because it makes like now, especially

492
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: for me as a parent, I'm started to realize it

493
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: can give you lazy parenting. Yeah, because you're like, you know,

494
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: even when you think about it, when we learned about sex,

495
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: about relationships, it's either through the church or through school.

496
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: You know, parents are not going to really like and

497
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: even those popular schools within Zimbabwe are religious schools. They're Anglican,

498
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: they're Catholics.

499
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: There, you know.

500
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: So it's like because the parents assume, because they fall

501
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: under Anglican or whatever, that they're going to teach you

502
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: a certain value of rules or certain you know, moral

503
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: values to uphold, so I find that. Yeah, it's all encompassing.

504
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we spent a lot of time in the

505
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: in the chapel we were in school, Like, for sure,

506
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: would you change if there was anything you could change

507
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: in terms of our chicken in history with missionaries and

508
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: Zimbabwe and religion, would.

509
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: You it all starts with colonialism.

510
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, I think I would to a certain extent, Like.

511
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'd hate the humanity side of things.

512
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: So all the things are talking about the judgments that

513
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: you should wear this, you should wear that. Religion itself

514
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: is not bad, but then it's the way we we

515
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: I guess, perceive it and the way we then.

516
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: Live with it is what's become bad.

517
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes I think of maybe, like you know,

518
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: the musikhavan U thing where it's like you're you're more

519
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 2: like with the spirits and the earth and the and

520
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: that was more like how our forefathers were and and

521
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: maybe I'm romanticizing it, of course, but at the same time,

522
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: it would have been nice if we had had room

523
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: for that to also breathe. I feel like now that

524
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: just falls under traditional healing, you know what I mean, Like, oh,

525
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: you're end up when younger.

526
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, muzimu and all those things.

527
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: But then it's like religion came and then it obliterated

528
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: everything else like it just because I guess one can't.

529
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: Really exist without Then you think about some.

530
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: People will argue, especially in the Western world, about the

531
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: creation story and all of that and darronism, and so

532
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so much going on, and religion

533
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: is very like doesn't most cases, doesn't give you room

534
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: for debate.

535
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: It's like take this or not. Yeah, you know, that's

536
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: the way it is.

537
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to hear anything else. Yeah, yeah,

538
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: so yeah, I I don't.

539
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: I wish if they had come and allowed religion and

540
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: our traditions to coexist. I really so we could see

541
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: what that looks like. I feel, as we spoke about

542
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: in the Colonialism episode episode, we really took the religion

543
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: and we're like, this is the only way, and we're

544
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: only going to have that, which is unfortunate because, like

545
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: Amanda and I sitting here, we can't really say because

546
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: we there's there's not much to say because so much

547
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: of it was taken away. And so I wish I

548
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: would change that story and I would change the story

549
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: of this is better than you, or coming from a

550
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: place of like you you you are, we are not equal,

551
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: or this is you know, because obviously if you go

552
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: to someone and say what you're doing is less than

553
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: and it's it's not as good as what I'm doing.

554
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: We always want the best, right as humans, you're seen

555
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: as the best. It's the whole power. So inevitably people

556
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: gravitated towards them. What's what's what's deemed as the right

557
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: and the best way to do things? So I would

558
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: change that.

559
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and maybe there wasn't as much savagery around.

560
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: It because that's the that's the language, right, Yeah, the

561
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: story that's been fed.

562
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: How do you think religion fits into the modern world?

563
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: So I guess taking it out of Zimbabwe, maybe within

564
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: the Prague or how do you feel religion is?

565
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: Religion is as we've said, it's gotten a bad rep

566
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: of course because of the way things have been done.

567
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: I think globally we've seen in the protests currently around

568
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, women in Iran, if it's Iran not wanting

569
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: to wear, wanting to wear whatever they want to wear,

570
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: and that has become a violent, violently oppressed. I think

571
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: there's a huge problem with that, and there's a huge

572
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: problem because you know the extremes of it, the belief

573
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: that women must wear borkers and cover themselves is the

574
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: only way to go. And then obviously saying everyone has

575
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: a right to choose this polarizing. There's a lot of

576
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: polarization in the world, and I think that's very problematic.

577
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: There's no sense of let me hear what they say, like,

578
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: let me understand and come to a meeting point of Okay,

579
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: that's how you choose to live your life, that's okay,

580
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: you do you do me bo. There's always like you

581
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: have to do it my way or there's no one

582
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: nothing at all. And then on the other extreme of

583
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: saying like if you choose to wear a burker, you're archaic,

584
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: you have archaic you know what I mean. And it's like, yeah, yeah,

585
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: maybe I believe in that. So I think it's if

586
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: you're modern, you do away with all, and then if

587
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: you're if you don't do away with all you are

588
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: there's a room for both to coexist in the middle,

589
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: I feel in the world. But I think too there's

590
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: on a more positive, positive note, I think we're starting

591
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: to understand a little more about other religions or what

592
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: what faith or religion was supposed to be. So through travel,

593
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: through exposure appreciate like I have a strong appreciation for Buddhaism,

594
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: and like you know, I mean we all meditation and

595
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: how we see it at as zen Zen is deright

596
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: from that and the beauty of that. So I think

597
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: there's that's a positive side of it of being exposed

598
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: to things we would never have been exposed to had

599
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: we not.

600
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes you said it beautifully. I mean

601
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: for me, it's religion does fit in, but it's almost

602
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: like not as we know it, not as we've been

603
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 2: knowing it. You know, we're moving into a new era

604
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: where you have to give people space and room to

605
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: breathe and to be and to be genuine, to be

606
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: real because a lot of religion has hidden a lot

607
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 2: of things over the years. You know, you think about

608
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 2: like I mean here in Australia with a huge history

609
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: of a lot of Catholic schools and a lot of

610
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: men were sexually abused in these schools.

611
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, the.

612
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: Priests just got moved to another diocese like ah, no,

613
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: you know, and this guy got.

614
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: This guy got a problem. We don't just move him

615
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,479
Speaker 1: to the next par another and now.

616
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: He's abusing you know, all these boys along the way

617
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 2: at every school he's going to. Yes, So I find

618
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: like being more in a modern society, people can call

619
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 2: out things we are, We are calling it out. We

620
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 2: are as you said, you know about Iran and women

621
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: being told to wear certain things. Now there's room for discussions,

622
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: there's room for is this right?

623
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: Is this?

624
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: And there's room for us not just living our ways,

625
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: our way exactly the same. Yes, you know, there is

626
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: space for everyone, you know, And if I'm not threatening

627
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: your well being, if I'm not threatening your livelihood, then

628
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: you can let me be as well and learn, maybe

629
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: perhaps learn and bounce off. Like you said with Buddhism,

630
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's the only way we can be.

631
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: I feel like the only way we can fit in.

632
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: We can't all be the same.

633
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: So that it's such a don't you think that's such

634
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: a human thing of wanting to be Like it's like

635
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: you have to my way is the right way, and

636
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: I think that's killing us in so many ways.

637
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: It's like, because one of the things I hate is

638
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: like how religion can be like used as your identity.

639
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, what do you you the person think?

640
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: You know, what do you consider? You know, it's like,

641
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. The church says this is ah, but

642
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: what do you like? I hear that, but what do

643
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: you think? And I think a lot of people fall

644
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: under that umbrella. They don't give themselves space to explore,

645
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 2: to be curious to you know, they just think, oh,

646
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: the Bible says yes or no, so black and white,

647
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: and the world is not black and white.

648
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: And even the way the Bible was written.

649
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: With if you don't cherry pick, you will actually see

650
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: that it's not so black and white. Do you know

651
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: there's layers to Old Testament New Testament?

652
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: Yes?

653
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, yes.

654
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: And what is one misconception you around religion that you

655
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: wish was debanked or you would like to debunk.

656
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 2: I think it's the you can't sit with us energy, Yeah,

657
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: because I think that's a human thing and not necessarily

658
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: a religion thing. But unfortunately it's been so people feel

659
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: like they can't belong in the space where they're meant

660
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: to be long, you know, in Jesus, like if I

661
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: look at Christianity and Jesus was he was friends with

662
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: prostitutes and drinkers. And I'm not saying people are going

663
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: to be prostitutes, but I'm just trying to say, like

664
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: there was meant to be a safe space. Yes, yeah,

665
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: and now people a lot of people think it's not.

666
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: And I would like to debunk that and say it is.

667
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: But then is the people we're making it not?

668
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's not.

669
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: It's so yeah.

670
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,479
Speaker 2: I feel like we've just had in some ways quite

671
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: a few bad apples who have then ruined it for

672
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people. And yet, you know, when you

673
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: are in trouble, and my dad was right, you know,

674
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: when you're new in a country, when you're trying to

675
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: make your way, find your identity, the church is a

676
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 2: space you can go and assume that everyone in that

677
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: umbrella is looking out for you in a positive way,

678
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, we should debunk that. I think

679
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: that our human nature. Don't let the human nature, you know,

680
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 2: override what is meant to be a pure and beautiful thing.

681
00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I would say to debunk it's okay

682
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: to be open minded within religion. I think that is

683
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: a misconception. Unfortunately, again because of people that is there,

684
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: which is you can only see things. The way the

685
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: religion sees you, I think it's very healthy, and in

686
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: one aspect, I'm very grateful for how I was raised

687
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: by my parents to some degree, because my mom grew

688
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: up in an incredibly religious household, and when raising us,

689
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: I think her and my dad wanted us to have

690
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: a bit of a you know, to breathe a little,

691
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: and in so doing I was able to question and

692
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: form opinions and you know, understand or try different things,

693
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: and it makes you a more It makes you able

694
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: to exist coexist with others in society better, and it

695
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you have to be someone else. I think

696
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: if I dial back to the Bible, the apostle Paul

697
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: said that you know, when he's with Greeks, he'll do

698
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: as the Greeks do, because you have to meet people

699
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: where they are. That's how you build relationship and break

700
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: But people have this be like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

701
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: I ain't even gonna go there. I'm not even going

702
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: to step into that room. But I think that's absolutely

703
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: not the way it was. It should be. So there's

704
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: room to be open minded within religion, and it doesn't

705
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: mean you're compromising your values or you are less of

706
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: a person, Like there's definitely room and there's so many

707
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: other myths that and misconceptions too deepunk, but I would

708
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: say that, And yeah, at least for Christianity. Again, this

709
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: episode we've done, we've dealt a lot with Christianity because

710
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: that's what you know. We can't speak on other religions

711
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: because that's not you know who, We don't really understand them. Yeah,

712
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: it's not our lens. But yeah, I think, yeah, it's

713
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: such a good topic because.

714
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: This is such a food for thought, because it's just like,

715
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: why do we do the things we do within the

716
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: churches and the spaces we're in, Like I think it's, Yeah,

717
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: it's fear of.

718
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: Not belonging, fear of the unknown or what is different

719
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: to us. There's a huge fear and so we control

720
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: think about it in your own life. Like I'm someone

721
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: I like to plan, I like to have things a

722
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: certain way, and then as soon as things start, you know,

723
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: spreading out those bounds kind of like you need to

724
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: come back in. So that's just on a larger lens

725
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: and scale, and you know, it's the human nature in us.

726
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just find it so ironic that we heavily

727
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: police with these spaces, but we don't want to be

728
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: heavily policed. So it's like, you know, the people who

729
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: are like gossiping whatever, but when it's their turn, they

730
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: don't want that to happen.

731
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like the wilderness. My gosh.

732
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: Anyway, rumby our Zim shout out is the beautiful marcon

733
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: Lovo tell us more about her?

734
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: Yes, shout out to Macondo. She's media personality. She won

735
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: some pageants in the US and she went on to

736
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: host a number of shows. She's been on Essence, She's

737
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: now currently on Amazon Lives. She's been on the Wendy

738
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: Williams Show. I think she's been on Sherry Shepherdy. She's

739
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: doing a lot. Recently, she was raving about working with

740
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 1: Heidi Klum and Tim Gunn and so she's proudly zimbabween.

741
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: We love her. She's proudly Zimbabwe and I've seen so

742
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: many clips of her introducing herself on on these shows

743
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: with Wendy Williams saying I'm from Zimbabwe and getting them to,

744
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, say it too. And she's so proudly and

745
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: beautifully representing Zimbabwe in a space that we are not

746
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: as represented and she hails two very from Blah Bayoh,

747
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: which is amazing because I think, yeah, you know how

748
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: Zimbos are, we like to separate and whatever. But I think,

749
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's I'm so proud to see her doing

750
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: so beautifully and always coming back to the continent and

751
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: also shining a light on you know, artists and stars

752
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: and people from the continent whilst also doing her thing, interviewing,

753
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: working with you know, some.

754
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 2: Hollywood is absolutely beautiful, shining unn and I love her

755
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: and her sister too.

756
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: I think a sister is called Erica. Erica lives loud

757
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: and they do dances, they do like they're so cute together.

758
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: So I love her personality shining through and just all

759
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 1: that she's doing. So shout out Makonlovu for all you

760
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: do and rapping so beautifully. So yeah, thank you for

761
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: this beautiful really in.

762
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 2: Depth now I'm thinking of a milllian things. This is

763
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: conjured up a lot that brings. I mean, we can't

764
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: talk about more than one episode, but like really religion,

765
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day, each to

766
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: their own, that's just the way to.

767
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: That's how the cookie for sure, for sure. And let

768
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: us know your thoughts because we'd love, we always love

769
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: hearing your perspectives. Obviously, we don't want to just come

770
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: in with our lens purely our lens in these discussions.

771
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: Let us know you know Instagram, We're at its Laird.

772
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: It's led part on Twitter. Email us, It's led pot

773
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Please rate and review us wherever

774
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcast, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

775
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: all the things. We would love love love you to

776
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: do that for us, Amanda anything else, amagas in her thoughts, y'all,

777
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: she's she's still thinking, she's still be here like ma'am.

778
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, but yeah, thank you so much for me

779
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: for a beautiful episode again.

780
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: And see you soon. Yes, bye bye everyone bye. Oh

781
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: no no yeah yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no