1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: the thirteenth of June. I'm Zara Seidler. 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 3: I'm Billy fitz Simon's. 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: This week, the United Nations released its most comprehensive report 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: yet on the state of fertility around the world. The 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: report confirmed the global fertility rates are dropping and that 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: it's not necessarily for the reasons we're often told it is. 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: In today's podcast, we'll unpack the findings of the UN report, 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: how this is manifesting here in Australia, and how governments 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: can address this issue moving forward. 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: Zara, when we talk about fertility rates, I feel like 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: we often talk about specific countries. So I know, in Japan, 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: for example, we often talk about the declining birth rates 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: the big way. But it's interesting that this report is 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: looking at the globe as a whole and what is 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: happening absolutely everywhere with the fertility rate. 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So wh it's such a big report because it 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: is looking at the state of play across a bunch 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: of different countries from different socioeconomic backgrounds, and it's finding 22 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: a similar kind of through line or a similar trend. 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: So what did it find? 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: So essentially the shorthands is that it found that global 25 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: fertility rates are declining across the board. According to that 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: same report, the human population is projected to reach its 27 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: peak within the century, but then from there it's going 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: to fall. So I feel like for our whole life, 29 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: we've spoken about how you know, we have more people 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: on Earth than ever an overpopulation, But what this is 31 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: saying is that actually that human population is going to fall. 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: One in four people are currently living in a country 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: where the size of the population is understood to have 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: already hit that peak, and so I think it's helpful 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: to paint the picture here in Australia, where our birth 36 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: rate has been falling for decades, and I know you 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: and I have spoken about this on the pod before. 38 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: If we go back to the fifties, the birth rate 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: in Australia was three point five babies per woman. In 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, that birth rate was two point 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: zero two children per woman, and then in twenty twenty 42 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: three it was one point five children per woman. 43 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 3: Wow, so it has dropped quite significantly. 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only going in one way, and it's pretty 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: clear that there is this trend over the last few 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: decades of women in Australia having less children. 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: I think it's helpful whenever we're talking about a declining 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: birth rate to understand why it can be considered an issue, 49 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: particularly an economic issue, which you don't often think about, 50 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, women having babies as something that is global 51 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: or even on the specific country level, an economic issue 52 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: for that country. 53 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: But it kind of is. 54 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's something you and I strangely find 55 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: ourselves speaking about a lot, and certainly when you've sat 56 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: down and interviewed treasurers or shadow treasures, this is something 57 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: that's come up. The reason it's an issue is that 58 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: basically we have an aging population at the same time 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 2: as we have a shrinking working population. And so if 60 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: I just unpack that, really clearly we've got people getting 61 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: older and living for longer, which is great. I mean 62 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: it depends on who you are. Objectively a good thing 63 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: living standards, but fewer people that are then of working 64 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: age and who are contributing to the economy, and so 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: the consequence of that is that there is this increased 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: economic pressure on governments. So, like I just said, that's 67 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: because we have less people being able to work and 68 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: pay taxes, which is the key way that the government 69 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: raises money, and more people in that aging population who 70 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: require assistance, whether that be health services, the pension, you know, 71 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: whatever it is that they need in their old age. 72 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: There is this incongruence between where the money is coming 73 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: from and what it's being spent on. And the other 74 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: thing I think that isn't spoken about very often though, 75 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: is the fact that it means there's a lot of 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 2: pressure on younger people to care for old people and 77 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: the economic burden that that can carry if they have 78 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: to leave the workforce for that. 79 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: So to put it really simply, and maybe this is 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: too simplistic, but we have less people paying taxes and 81 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: more people needing tax payer money. 82 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: Correct, got it. 83 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: So we know that it can be a bad thing 84 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: for economies. What did this report tell us about why 85 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: there is this declining birth rate? 86 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean this is the golden question and 87 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: it's certainly the one that this UN report was trying 88 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: to answer. I'll just quickly run through what this report 89 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: actually was because I'd certainly never seen anything of its kind. Essentially, 90 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: it was undertaken by the UN Population Fund and It 91 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: surveyed fourteen thousand people across fourteen different countries about their 92 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: fertility intentions. The final report was called The Real Fertility Crisis, 93 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: and it was a very very long read. So I 94 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: guess I'll just give you a too long didn't read, 95 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: which is to say that the fertility rate is declining 96 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: not because people don't want to have children, but rather 97 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: that they are prevented from making the decision to have 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: children because of external factors. So let me just really 99 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: clearly simplify that the UN isn't saying that there is 100 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: a fertility crisis because young people don't want to have kids. 101 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: What they're saying is hundreds of millions of people aren't 102 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: having the number of children they want because the conditions 103 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 2: just aren't right for them to be able to do that. 104 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: And before I go any further, Billy, I do just 105 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: want to highlight that, of course, there are factors, including infertility, 106 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: that can prevent people very clearly from starting families, and 107 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: that's really really significant. But for the sake of this discussion, 108 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: the UN is broadly looking at the fertility rate and 109 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: it's trying to understand if it's because people want less 110 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: children or because they feel like they have to have 111 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: less children, and essentially the report finds the latter, it's 112 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: that they feel like they have to have less children. 113 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: The UN Population Fund director said, it's often assumed or 114 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: implied that fertility rates are the results of free choice. Fortunately, 115 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 2: that is not the whole picture. 116 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 3: That is so interesting and relatable. 117 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is, and I mean I feel 118 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: like people anecdotally probably know this to be the case. 119 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: But this is the first kind of report that has 120 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: told us, or at least has the data to support 121 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: the fact that it's not that. Broadly, across the board, 122 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: young people are saying no, we're not interested in having children. 123 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: And it was really interesting. The report compiled a bunch 124 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: of headlines from across the globe that said like young 125 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: feminist women no longer want children, or they've gone a 126 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: different path than all these headlines, and it was like, no, 127 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: this isn't actually the issue that when you ask people 128 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: is what's coming back. It's that there are these conditions 129 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: that are not allowing them to realize what it is 130 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: they might actually want. 131 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: Wow. 132 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have so many more questions, but just quickly, 133 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: here is a message from our spots up Zara, you 134 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: mentioned that there were some other reasons why women and 135 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: couples are choosing to not have more children. 136 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: What are those other reasons. 137 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: We'll go first through the economic reasons, because those make 138 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: up kind of the first three main reasons, the first 139 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: being that thirty nine percent of respondents said that financial 140 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: limitation had affected or would affect their ability to achieve 141 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: their desired family size. Twenty one percent said that it 142 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: was about job insecurity, nineteen percent said it was about housing. 143 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: So clearly that economic context that people find themselves in 144 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: is playing a really, really big role. Another interesting stat 145 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: from the report, and it's certainly something I feel like 146 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: comes up in a lot of conversations I'm a part 147 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: of or I'm listening to, is that one in five 148 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: people said fears about the future, including things like climate change, wars, 149 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: and pandemics, would lead them or has led them to 150 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: having fewer children than desired. Interestingly, only twelve percent of 151 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: people cited infertility or difficulty conceiving for not having the 152 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: number of children that they wanted, and I was quite 153 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: surprised by that number, to be honest, it was much 154 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: lower than I thought it would be. And of course, 155 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: this is just one report. This hasn't spoken to every 156 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: woman everywhere, but I just thought that that was interesting. 157 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, often when I think about infertility, I think that 158 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: in the past ten years or so, we have come 159 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: leaps and bounds when it comes to having really open 160 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: discussions about the issues surrounding infertility and how it can 161 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: feel to be a woman going through that. 162 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 163 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: But I guess maybe it's not the case that more 164 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: women are experiencing infertility, but it's the case that more 165 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: women are talking about it. 166 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. And what the report actually highlighted was that one 167 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: of the big areas of concern is the inaccessibility of 168 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 2: these fertility services or the assistance that they can provide. 169 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 2: That while there are many in the world that can 170 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: access them, for so many they are still inaccessible and 171 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: that's one of the things that they think need to 172 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: change for more people to have the family or the 173 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: size of the family that they want. 174 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so we know there's a declining fertility rate. We 175 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: know that's a problem, and we know why it's happening. 176 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: Did the un have any ideas about how to solve 177 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: this issue? 178 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 2: Well, the report was basically saying that attempts that governments 179 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: are making around the world, things like a baby bonus 180 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: or an incentive to have a baby isn't actually getting 181 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: to the root cause of the issue, and that they 182 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: don't believe that that's actually going to move the dial 183 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: at all. I want to focus in on one example 184 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 2: of these sorts of incentives that we've actually spoken about 185 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: on this podcast before, but it's a local version, so 186 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: I think it's quite interesting, and that was the idea 187 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: put forward by Matt Canavan. He's a National Senator. His 188 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: recommendation was to give couples and one hundred thousand dollars 189 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: loan for their first home when they have their first child, 190 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: and then if they have three children that the loan 191 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: would be wiped And while shockingly the UN didn't specifically 192 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 2: address Man Canavan, I don't think his own party has 193 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: addressed that proposal. However, broadly, the UN did talk about 194 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: this this movement of you know, we've seen it in Hungary, 195 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: we've seen it in other countries, of offering specific incentives, 196 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: especially to women to have more children. What it was 197 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: saying was investing in structural changes is the only thing 198 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: that is going to shift the dial. And when I 199 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: say structural changes, we're talking about things like paid parental leave, 200 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: the accessibility of child's care, addressing housing issues, and ensuring 201 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: access to reproductive health services. They're saying, if you offer 202 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: those bonuses, that's not going to do anything. Do all 203 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: of these things and maybe then we'll see the fertility 204 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: rate rise again in the opposite way that it's been 205 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,599 Speaker 2: going for decades. 206 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: So they're saying, you can't fix this long term issue 207 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: with short term solutions exactly. 208 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: And again I feel like, you know, even if I 209 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: look at our comment section anytime we report on these 210 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: sorts of bonuses or incentives, like everyone in our comment 211 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 2: section is saying the same thing. That know, this wouldn't 212 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: be enough to actually shift the dial. But I think 213 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: having the un come out and have surveyed so many 214 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: people across the world and to have come to this conclusion, 215 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see if any governments pick up 216 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: on it. You know, of course, here in Australia there 217 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: have been a lot of pieces of legislation when it 218 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: comes to paper rental leave and childcare, but perhaps not 219 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 2: this like suite of reforms aimed at raising the fertility rate. 220 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: It can be a bit of a hot topic and 221 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: people feel very strongly when they hear, especially male politicians 222 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: talking about it, so definitely an interesting one to see 223 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: if governments take up this kind of call to action. 224 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 3: Zara, thank you for taking us through that. 225 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: It was one hundred and sixty page report, so we 226 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: very much appreciate you reading every single word and then 227 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: summarizing it for us here. And thank you so much 228 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of The Daily os. We'll 229 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: be back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but 230 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: until then, have a great day. 231 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 3: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 232 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 3: bunge Lung Chalcotin woman from Gadigal Country. The Daily oz 233 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 3: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of 234 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 3: the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and 235 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 3: Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 236 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.