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Speaker 1: Well, as you may have heard reported sadly another death

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Speaker 1: in custody over the weekend. The Northern Territory Police investigating

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Speaker 1: on behalf of the coroner after a man died in

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Speaker 1: Royal Darhwen Hospital over the weekend. Now it is being

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Speaker 1: reported and certainly the police have confirmed that on the

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Speaker 1: thirtieth of May, the Australian Federal Police received reports of

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Speaker 1: an intoxicated sixty eight year old man unable to board

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Speaker 1: a flight out of Darwin. That man was taken into

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Speaker 1: protective custody by the AFP, initially conveyed to Palmerston Watchhouse.

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Speaker 1: Now before being admitted and whilst still in AFP custody,

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Speaker 1: the custody sergeant and nurse assess the mail where it

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Speaker 1: was deemed necessary to convey the man to Royal Dahwen

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Speaker 1: Hospital for further treatment. Upon arriving at the hospital, AFP

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Speaker 1: members noticed the man had lost consciousness. Medical staff were

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Speaker 1: alerted who immediately commenced CPR. Resuscitation efforts were successful and

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Speaker 1: he was transferred to the Intensive care unit in a

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Speaker 1: stable condition and for ongoing treatment for what was a

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Speaker 1: suspected medical event. Now on Saturday, the man passed away

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Speaker 1: in ICU. The cause of the morn Man's death remains undetermined,

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Speaker 1: pending a post mortem. Now joining us on the show

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Speaker 1: is the Deputy Chief Minister, or Minister for Corrections, Jared Mayley.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to Deputy Chief Minister.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, unfortunately another death in custody on the weekend. Does

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Speaker 1: there need to be an independent investigation into the two

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Speaker 1: deaths that we've seen in the last fortnight.

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Speaker 2: Look, I've got every confidence that the NT Police are

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Speaker 2: capable of doing these investigations. They are professional, they have

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Speaker 2: been in the territory a long time, and this later

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Speaker 2: death is going to be investigated by the NT Police

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Speaker 2: because it occurred in their jurisdiction. So I've got every

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Speaker 2: confidence at the police I can do a job and

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Speaker 2: investigate these TVs to death Now.

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Speaker 1: According to the AB, one of Australia's largest Aboriginal legal

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Speaker 1: services NAJA, is calling for an emergency intervention to de

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Speaker 1: escalate tensions in the Northern Territory's justice system following the

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Speaker 1: two deaths of Aboriginal meaning in police custody. Now, naja's

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Speaker 1: acting Chief Executive Anthony Bevan, telling the ABC that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government could not afford to wait for an investigation.

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Speaker 1: He said, let's not wait for another inquiry for another

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Speaker 1: twelve months. We know that a person losing their life

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Speaker 1: over a shoplifting incident is not acceptable. He said that

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Speaker 1: NAJA was urging the government to hold a forum with

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Speaker 1: First Nations leaders and both Commonwealth and Northern Territory authorities

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Speaker 1: to address the territory's soaring incarceration rate. Minister, is this

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Speaker 1: something that the government is prepared to look into?

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Speaker 2: The ant police are the appropriate body john to take

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Speaker 2: these investigations and we certainly aren't going to intervene and

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Speaker 2: step in their way. We don't them do their job.

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Speaker 2: We know that the previous of the roles that when

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Speaker 2: the government intervened there there was all sorts of problems.

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Speaker 2: What we are doing is we've got full confidence in

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Speaker 2: the police the leading do their investigation and then want

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Speaker 2: the result of investigation. Then we can take some action

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Speaker 2: after that investigation has been completely There's not much more

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Speaker 2: we can do or say about this because we need

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Speaker 2: to wait for the investigation to occur.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there needs to be a forum with

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Speaker 1: First Nations leaders and both the Commonwealth and the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory authorities, you know, to look more closely into the situation.

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Speaker 2: Look, what needs to happen is this investigation needs to

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Speaker 2: be completed. We need to see what happens as a

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Speaker 2: result of the investigation and then we can start thinking

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Speaker 2: about what we can do in the Northern Territory to

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Speaker 2: continue to keep the territory a safe place, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, minister. In terms of you know, the situation with

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Speaker 1: our jails, Mister Bevan from NAJA has told the ABC

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Speaker 1: that the government's bail reforms have watered down the presumption

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Speaker 1: of innocence, making First Nation people fearful of police officers

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Speaker 1: and the justice system. He reckons they're seeing their family,

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Speaker 1: their sons, their daughters, their husbands and wives being locked

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Speaker 1: up and held on remand for long periods of time.

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Speaker 1: He said, we don't want to get into a situation

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Speaker 1: where Aboriginal people feel backed into a corner that if

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Speaker 1: they have an interaction with police, there's a good chance

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Speaker 1: that they're going to spend time in jail. Is that

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Speaker 1: a concern for the government and particularly you as the

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Speaker 1: Corrections Minister.

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Speaker 2: Look, what my main concern in my paramaccon is keeping

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Speaker 2: the community This is talking about the whole of the

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Speaker 2: community in the Northern Territory and we need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that it's a safe place to go shopping, it's

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Speaker 2: a safe place to walk down the streets. I remember

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Speaker 2: there's stories of people who don't want to go shopping

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Speaker 2: at Casherine and coming all the way out into calling

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Speaker 2: Es Central because I didn't feel safe all the election.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to make sure that the We're going

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Speaker 2: to concern on community safety and all we want to

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Speaker 2: do is make sure that if you do come into

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Speaker 2: the correction system, that there's an opportunity for program to

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Speaker 2: get some structure in your life and come out a

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Speaker 2: better person, because it's about community safety. And remember, if

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Speaker 2: you don't do the wrong thing, something to worry about that.

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Speaker 1: I think the point you've made there about programs is

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Speaker 1: an important one and I know again this morning Dr

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Speaker 1: Russell Mark's, a criminal defense lawyer and author have Locked

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Speaker 1: Up and Locked Out, was on the ABC saying the

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Speaker 1: community is demonstrably less safe after a person spent time

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Speaker 1: in jail. He reckons those who spend time in jail

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Speaker 1: are more likely to offend again. How are you, as

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Speaker 1: a minister making sure that people are not going to

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Speaker 1: jail and becoming better offenders. I mean, talk us through

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Speaker 1: some of those programs and are they operating you know,

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Speaker 1: with the intended effect i e. People coming out better PEOPLEOK.

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Speaker 2: Putting someone in prison and putting them into a program

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Speaker 2: and bringing him out is one aspect off the bigger

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Speaker 2: picture here, Katie. It's about making sure that the wrap

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Speaker 2: around services look at what problems they've got, if they're

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Speaker 2: got any health issues. As we all know that when

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Speaker 2: you go into corrections, you get a full health check up.

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Speaker 2: You go make sure that your medication is the right medication,

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Speaker 2: that you're taking your medication, that you get three meals

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Speaker 2: a day, and you get off the alcohol, you get

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Speaker 2: off the drugs, and then you go to these programs

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Speaker 2: to be able to come out a better person. Because

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Speaker 2: it's not only about program but remember we also got

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Speaker 2: education in schooling O Katie. I've been to the youth

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Speaker 2: prison and I've been to the adult prison. I've seen

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Speaker 2: these inmates in school. I'm talking about young offenders here,

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Speaker 2: something that some of them have never done. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I was there and there was a young offender about

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Speaker 2: seventeen who didn't know what the outfit was couldn't write

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Speaker 2: their name down. So we are making sure we look

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Speaker 2: at the big picture here and telling someone out of

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Speaker 2: the other The prison system is about education, it's about purpose.

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Speaker 2: It's about getting them away from the alcohol, the drugs,

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Speaker 2: giving them a program, giving them an opportunity to get

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Speaker 2: up in the morning, go back to bed, to have

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Speaker 2: some routine in your life. So you look at the

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Speaker 2: big picture here, Katie. It's about making sure that we

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Speaker 2: protect these prisoners, protect the prison offices as well. And

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Speaker 2: it's not just one part of it. You know, programs

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Speaker 2: are a very important part of it, but it's one

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Speaker 2: part of many things. And remember after that, we've also

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Speaker 2: got charity families and those community services can wrap around

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Speaker 2: and support the young offenders. And some of the young

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Speaker 2: offenders could be nineteen twenty who come from a broken

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Speaker 2: community or a broken family, have had a really tough upbringing,

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Speaker 2: so we can give them some opportunity to speak to

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Speaker 2: the people, some counselors, just to try and get their

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Speaker 2: lives back on track.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that, you know, the other thing that

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Speaker 1: must always be remembered in these discussions is victims of crime.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have got so many victims of crime,

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Speaker 1: so many of them who listen to this show. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: we are getting a lot of messages to that effect

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Speaker 1: this morning, so I'll get to those after. But Minister,

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Speaker 1: as of last week, I understand that there was a

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Speaker 1: record twenty eight hundred and three prisoners being held across

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory's prison network. That marks a number. Well,

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Speaker 1: that marks a jump of five hundred and fifty inmates

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Speaker 1: since the COLP came into power in August. I mean

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Speaker 1: to those out there criticizing that and saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is not a good thing. It's not a good

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Speaker 1: thing to have more people in prison, what do you

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Speaker 1: say to those people this morning?

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Speaker 2: Like I said at the beginning of a conversation, OK,

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Speaker 2: this is about community safety in general. The Seal pre

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Speaker 2: elected in August last year to make sure that the

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Speaker 2: territory is a safer place, and that's what we're doing,

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Speaker 2: and that there's going to be a consequence. If you

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Speaker 2: commit a crime in Northern Territory. The police are going

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Speaker 2: to investigate, and if the court determined that you spend

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Speaker 2: some time and detention, we will put you into penance.

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Speaker 2: Two detention will be able to give you some education,

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Speaker 2: some programs and training to try and break that cycle

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Speaker 2: of reoffending. But it goes back to if there's an offense, Kyd,

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Speaker 2: there's a victim, and we want to ma sure that

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Speaker 2: Territorians in their entirety are better and safer, which is

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Speaker 2: again people going shopping at cooling because it's too dangerous,

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Speaker 2: of shopping at Casherina just unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: Katie, now, Minister, no doubt, the record high numbers continue

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Speaker 1: to put pressure on the system. The government, will you

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Speaker 1: guys say you're set to deliver a record two hundred

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Speaker 1: and two new correctional officers this financial year, marking the

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Speaker 1: largest single workforce expansion in the territory's correctional history.

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Speaker 2: What work is.

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Speaker 1: Underway to ensure that the prison system can deal with

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Speaker 1: these ever growing numbers, you know, not only in terms

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Speaker 1: of bolstering those prison those correctional numbers, but also in

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Speaker 1: terms of infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: Well, kay, there's three main things we're doing. When we've

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Speaker 2: come into office. We've created a master plan in writing

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Speaker 2: and infrastructure. We came in and the prisons were overcrowded,

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Speaker 2: the officers and corrections of correction officers and prisons are

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Speaker 2: in watchhouses and the staffing was under wasn't where it

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Speaker 2: should be. So we have created or got two hundred

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Speaker 2: and two new direction offices this financial year. And just

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Speaker 2: on Friday I went and saw the passing out for

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Speaker 2: thirty two new officers to be able to go back

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Speaker 2: in and help those officers who do a great job.

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Speaker 2: On top of that, Katie, we've also got G four

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Speaker 2: s we're up and running, which do the services outside

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Speaker 2: the wire. There is no plan to put them in

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Speaker 2: behind the wire and privatize prisons. What they do is

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Speaker 2: look after the prisoners who come to the court or

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Speaker 2: the transporting between facilities. We're just trying to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we've got enough officers to deal with this demand

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Speaker 2: because it's about community safety and keeping territory and safe.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask, do you know how many prisoners we

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Speaker 1: currently have on remand.

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Speaker 2: I don't have that figure right in front of the

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Speaker 2: KD of what it was. I know. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to give you the wrong for.

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Speaker 1: Making all right, I guess I suppose my question is

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Speaker 1: you know with those ones that are on remand is

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Speaker 1: I think that the big question from a lot of

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Speaker 1: people is if they're on remand are they still able

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Speaker 1: to undertake those various different programs and again try to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they're then when and differently that they

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Speaker 1: are becoming, you know, like better people rather than rather

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Speaker 1: than obviously going down the wrong path.

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Speaker 2: When you're on remand you're innocent until proven guilty, so

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Speaker 2: there are valuable programs if you wanted to attend. They're

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Speaker 2: not mandatory, and that's what we're only looking at doing

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Speaker 2: to make sure that there is available. So it's trying

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Speaker 2: to get that balance right and saying, look, you're in prison,

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Speaker 2: we haven't been convicted of anything yet, so we can't

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Speaker 2: force you, but there are certainly industries and skills trainings

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Speaker 2: available if you're on ramand to be able to deal

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Speaker 2: with ease you want to How would.

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Speaker 1: You describe the way that things are going within our

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Speaker 1: directional facilities at the moment. Do you feel as though

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Speaker 1: you know that you guys are on top of things,

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Speaker 1: that you've got enough prison guards or correctional officers. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel as though there is enough infrastructure or are

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Speaker 1: we still seeing a situation where things are quite crowded.

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Speaker 2: Look, when we came in office, I'm nine months ago,

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Speaker 2: to be quite frank, kay I was shocked at the

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Speaker 2: state of the system, there was overcrowding, there was lack

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Speaker 2: of infrastructure. Clearly of the previous government had just not

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Speaker 2: planned to deal with safety and deal with the correction system.

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Speaker 2: So what we've come into office. We've got two hundred

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Speaker 2: and two new staff. We've injected another one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty six million dollars of additional funding into the system.

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Speaker 2: We've brought gfours online because it's a challenge working in

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Speaker 2: the correctional system and we have been faced with a

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Speaker 2: with a big problem. But I think it is turning

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Speaker 2: and I think we've gone down over the hump and

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Speaker 2: things are getting better. We've got more staff, we've got

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Speaker 2: more infrastructure, and we're out there trying to keep the community.

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Speaker 1: So, Minister, just another topic, and I'm very mindful of time.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to keep you for two long. I

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Speaker 1: know it's a busy day, but I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about this situation being reported in the Australian newspaper today.

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Speaker 1: A Northern Territory Supreme Court judge kept secret the details

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Speaker 1: of how she bailed a man who allegedly sexually assaulted

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Speaker 1: a child to a small town two days after the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government had passed the nation's toughest bail laws,

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Speaker 1: despite a previous judge finding it would be inevitable the

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Speaker 1: accused would run into the complainant and her family. Now,

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Speaker 1: the thirty four year old has been charged to two

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Speaker 1: serious sexual offenses against a child in the town of Catherine,

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Speaker 1: but it is being reported by The Australian last month

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Speaker 1: was granted bail to live in the same town. That

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Speaker 1: is what multiple sources have told the paper. You know,

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Speaker 1: I understand that the government's now urgently seeking that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Director of Public Prosecution request an appeal to

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Speaker 1: revoke the man's bail after this issue had been raised.

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Speaker 1: Is that the case? What do you understand of this situation?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it another situation where it does not

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Speaker 1: pass the pub test?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, on the face of it doesn't pass the

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Speaker 2: pub test. But what when we've found out about it.

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Speaker 2: When I say the government, I know the Attorney General

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Speaker 2: Marquez booth Meet wrote to the Office of the Public

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Speaker 2: Prosecutions and after they urgently review it considered this matter.

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Speaker 2: It just seems to be like we don't want to

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Speaker 2: we don't know all the details, Katie, and we don't

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Speaker 2: know exactly what happened, but certainly on the face of it,

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Speaker 2: this needs to be reviewed and reviewed urgently. We did change.

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Speaker 2: We've changed the law twice since we've been offers to

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Speaker 2: make sure that the bail laws are tough and there's

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Speaker 2: a test now the high degree of confidence. And I

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Speaker 2: can't explain why the court have done what they've done,

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Speaker 2: but I can say is to give the community a

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Speaker 2: bit of satisfaction that we're reviewing as urgent we can

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Speaker 2: and we need to make sure that this doesn't happen

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Speaker 2: because it's all about community safety.

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Speaker 1: Minister, are you concerned that some within the judiciary are

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Speaker 1: thumbing their nose that the government's legislative changes.

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Speaker 2: Look, Look, the court are also in the challenging situation.

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Speaker 2: They're doing their job and they need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we need we're going to manage the expectation of

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Speaker 2: the community. Look, we are going to continue as and

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Speaker 2: say that we as a government to strength in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory court system and we're going to put the

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Speaker 2: rights of the victim then the community first. So it

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Speaker 2: is a challenging situation, but we're making sure that we

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Speaker 2: look into it in this particular case to get it

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Speaker 2: reviewed and then look into the whole court system as

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Speaker 2: well to so what can we do to make it

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Speaker 2: to go quickly. We spoke about remand prisoners. If we've

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Speaker 2: got a court system that's working well, those Romand times

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Speaker 2: and remand prisoners will go down as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, Corrections Minister and also Deputy Chief Minister of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Jered Maylee. I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having a chat with us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Katie, thank you