1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Now, the Pharmacy Guild of Australia have raised some concerns 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: over Labour's new sixty day dispensing rule when it comes 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: to scripts, claiming that it could lead to the loss 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: of up to twenty thousand jobs. The changes, as I 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: understand it, are set to take effect next month and 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: became the center of heated debate in the Federal Parliament 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: last week. Now joining me on the line to tell 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: us a little bit more about these changes is the 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Pharmacy Guild's NT President, Peter Hatswell. 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Peter. 11 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: Peter. Tell me what these changes are going to mean. 13 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: The Government has proposed that around three hundred and twenty 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 3: medications that are available in the pds, instead of being 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: prescribed as thirty days at a time, they can be 16 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 3: prescribed as sixty days at a time, and so people 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 3: will essentially get twice the amount of those particular medications 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: and so saving that second dispensing sea. 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: I guess for people listening, they're going to be thinking 20 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: this is a good thing if it saves them money 21 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: at a time where it is pretty expensive or cost 22 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: of living is pretty. 23 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: High at the moment. But what's it going to mean. 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: From the Pharmacy Guild's perspective. 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: It is a good thing. I don't think that's anything 26 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: that can save the patient's money is a good idea, 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: and the Guild is certainly for the whole idea of 28 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 3: sixty day dispensing, But what it is going to do 29 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 3: is really cut the amount of money that pharmacies that 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: generate out of prescribe out of dispensing, and that loss 31 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 3: of income will basically affect pharmacies quite a lot. I 32 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: think that even the government's own impact analysis determined that 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 3: around about one hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars per 34 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: pharmacy on average would be lost as a result of 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: this policy. 36 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: From your perspective, what's it going to mean for pharmacies 37 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory. Do you think that we 38 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: are going to see job losses? 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: I think so yes. I mean, every business has to 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: make their own decisions, but there are already job losses 41 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 3: happening around Australia. There are the other I mean, every 42 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 3: business will have to look at the big pictures for 43 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: money in money out where can they make changes. Nobody 44 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: wants to go broke, so they will look at their 45 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: whole operations and cut expenses of staff being a very 46 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 3: big part of it, so that they think they can 47 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 3: make some cuts in staff and that will help, and 48 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: that's what they have to do. And it might even 49 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: be cutting hours, which of course also affects staff because 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: then there's less work for stuff to do. So those 51 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: things are happening now because people are anticipating the worst. 52 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, what work are some 53 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: of our pharmacies here in the territory doing to sort 54 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: of prepare for these changes, because it's due to come 55 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: in next month. 56 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: Isn't it. 57 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: That's correct. It's on the first of September that start. 58 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: That's going in three tranches, and so I think one 59 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: hundred medications will be in the first trend. Then there's 60 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 3: another hundred, but that first ranch is probably the most significant. 61 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: It's going to have the medications with the most volume. 62 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: And so, yeah, there are pharmacies that already cutting back 63 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 3: on staff that I can't I don't know which where 64 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: I can't impact, but there has already been announced. The 65 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: amcar day and Night Cajurina has indicated that they are 66 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: cutting back their extended hours. They've been running those hours 67 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: since nineteen eighty four, and then they're really sad to 68 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: have to do that, but it's their way of trying 69 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: to mitigate the effects of this loss of money for them. 70 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really tough juggle here, I reckon, because 71 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people will feel for those for those 72 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: local businesses, particularly you know, operating since nineteen eighty four. 73 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: I think you just said, then are the Casuarina pharmacy. 74 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: You know, they'll be feeling for businesses, but I guess 75 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: I'll also be thinking to themselves if it means that 76 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: they're able to save a little bit of money, they'll 77 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: be wanting to still go down that pass. 78 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Look, who wouldn't want to. I think that the 79 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: whole the guild, and I guess every pharmacy is always 80 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: wanted to be able to provide cheaper medications. But the 81 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: unintended consequences of this policy is just very striking and 82 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: it's going to be devastating to a lot of businesses. 83 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: And unfortunately this is going to affect people on the ground. 84 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: So if you've got cheaper medications, which is a great thing, 85 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: but the place where you normally get them from is 86 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 3: either shut for hours that you would normally go there, 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 3: so you can't get them, and so you have to 88 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 3: travel further to get to your medications or even you know, 89 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: lords a bit that that business might flows and then 90 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: you have to go somewhere else entirely for everything. For pharmacy, 91 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: it's the whole plan they neill hasn't really been well 92 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: thought out, and all the Farmacy Guild and every pharmacy 93 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: has always said, it's just talk to us, let's work 94 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 3: together to a solution that doesn't create all of this 95 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: this devastation within the pharmacy industry and we can still 96 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: get that those cheaper prices for people so. 97 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: Peter at this point in time, how are those that 98 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: operate pharmacies in the Northern Territory feeling just a couple 99 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: of weeks out from these changes coming into play? 100 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: Scared them? We're all scared. They're everyone scared for their businesses. 101 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 3: You know, how are they going to make this work? 102 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: They're going to have to change how They're going to 103 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: have to change the way they do business, the model, 104 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: you know, the balance of their business are. They're going 105 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: to have to increase the front of shop and become 106 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: like a big box kind of all. You know, you know, 107 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: discounting or whatever. They're scared for their customers. How how 108 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: are their customers going to be impacted being able to 109 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: turning up at the hours that they would normally be 110 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 3: open and now they can't get to see their pharmacy, 111 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: their staff. How many people staff are going to lose 112 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: their jobs and have to look for other work or 113 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 3: possibly you know, depending on how long they've been in 114 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: the is maybe that's going to be a very difficult 115 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: thing for them and their vulnerable clients. I know that 116 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 3: you need the most. 117 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: I know there had been some discussions about whether there 118 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: be any shortages of medications. I mean, is that still 119 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: a concern? 120 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: Yes, it is that. I guess it's been on. It's 121 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 3: kind of gone a bit of a back seat to 122 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 3: everything else. But yeah, that's that nothing has changed there. 123 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 3: There will be increased volumes initially that's going to cause 124 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 3: all sorts of shortages. People being people might try and 125 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: hoard as to try and counteract that, and that's going 126 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: to create even more problems. That is all still yet 127 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 3: to happen, and medication shortages have been going on for 128 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: quite some times. This is just going to exacerbate that problem. 129 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: Well, Peter is there any advice I suppose for territorians 130 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: as we do get ready to you know, to move 131 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: to this change. 132 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: Be there to help think about whether you really need that. 133 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: I mean, if someone is getting medications a lot and 134 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: they end up getting their safety net halfway through the year, 135 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: they actually won't save any actual money and then they 136 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: will still suffer all of the problems with medication shortages, 137 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 3: with pharmacies closing earlier and stuff like that. So they 138 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: should talk to their pharmacy and ask them, you know, 139 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 3: how can they help. But this is going to happen, 140 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: and if people are on stable medications, it will go ahead. 141 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: Really it's about putting pressure, I guess, on the government 142 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: to come back to the table. Let's talk about how 143 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: we can implement the sixty day dispensing without destroying, well 144 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: affecting pharmacies financially in such a way that we have 145 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: to then cut all these extra services. It's tell tell 146 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: your parliamentarian that the government needs to come up with 147 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: all that works for everybody, including the pharmacy industry. Yeah. 148 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: Look, I really hope that we don't wind up in 149 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: a situation where you know, where we have pharmacies closing 150 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: or people you know, really limiting those shop hours. But 151 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: I can understand how businesses are going to have to 152 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: modify the way in which they're doing things to try 153 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: and deal with the change. So, Peter, I really appreciate 154 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: you having a chat with us this morning. By the 155 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: sounds of things, it's a tough time for our pharmacies 156 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: for the next few weeks as you do work through 157 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: these changes. 158 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 3: Yes, and I appreciate that. I've been great talking to you. 159 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 3: And yes, we're all a little scared, and it really 160 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: comes down to the politicians. So everybody can sort of 161 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 3: put pressure on their politicians to save their pharmacies, which 162 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: and particularly the vulnerable ones, the ones that are out 163 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: the remote and regional remote areas, the ones that small 164 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: businesses with possibly even new owners, they are at real 165 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: risk of having problems with even staying open altogether. 166 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: Well, Peter, hatswell, thank you very much for your time 167 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: this morning. 168 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Thanks, Katie, thank you