Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Speaker 2: This episode will deal with mental health and suicide. If
Speaker 2: you need help, you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the sixth of September. I'm Zara Seidler.
Speaker 3: I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 2: Australia's first ever autism strategy is being developed to try
Speaker 2: improve outcomes for autistic Australians in everything from mental health
Speaker 2: to social inclusion.
Speaker 4: We really want to ensure that all autistic people can
Speaker 4: truly participate socially the community.
Speaker 2: Stick around until the Deep Dive to hear my conversation
Speaker 2: with Andy Shim Andy's a member of the council overseeing
Speaker 2: the new strategy. But before we get to that chat, Sam,
Speaker 2: yesterday was the first Tuesday of the month, which is
Speaker 2: RBA Day.
Speaker 3: That's right, and the RBA decided not to make any
Speaker 3: big moves Yesterday they kept the interest rate on hold
Speaker 3: at four point one percent for the third month in
Speaker 3: a row. This was the last rate decision and RBA
Speaker 3: meeting for outgoing Governor Philip Lowe, who didn't rule out
Speaker 3: future hikes to the cash rate, but he did say
Speaker 3: that inflation had passed its peak. Michelle Bullocks starts as
Speaker 3: the new RBA governor on the eighteenth of September.
Speaker 2: PM Anthony Alberizi is in Indonesia today, kicking off what
Speaker 2: will be a three country diplomatic visit. The PM will
Speaker 2: attend the Asian Summit, which is a meeting of the
Speaker 2: Association of Southeast Asian Nations. For his first stop in Jakata.
Speaker 2: He's expected to meet with other leaders over the next
Speaker 2: two days before heading to the Philippines for talks with
Speaker 2: their president.
Speaker 3: The last of the Aussies have been knocked out of
Speaker 3: the US Opens singles competition. Top ranked Australian men's player
Speaker 3: Alex Demenor made it to the fourth round of the
Speaker 3: Tennis Grand Slam before being knocked out by previous champion
Speaker 3: Daniel Medvedev on Tuesday morning. The men's and women's finals
Speaker 3: will be played over the weekend local time, with the
Speaker 3: competition wrapping up early Monday morning for those of us
Speaker 3: in the AEEST time zone.
Speaker 2: And the good news, Sydney FC has launched a pathway
Speaker 2: to develop and encourage more female footballers to play at
Speaker 2: a professional level. The program will develop footballers aged between
Speaker 2: eleven and sixteen years old and will provide a link
Speaker 2: between community soccer and professional competition. Sydney FC and Matilda's
Speaker 2: World Cup squad forward Courtney Vin said the program would
Speaker 2: provide an enormous benefit to the future of Australian women's football.
Speaker 2: Australia's first ever autism strategy has been released for public
Speaker 2: feedback to help us understand what the strategy is and
Speaker 2: what it will do. I'm joined by disability Right to
Speaker 2: activist and an autistic member of the Council overseeing the
Speaker 2: National Autism Strategy, Andy shim Andy, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us on the podcast.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having me. I'm very still honored
Speaker 4: to be here today.
Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. I know that you're on
Speaker 2: here today to talk about the strategy but I do
Speaker 2: really just want to take a step back first, and
Speaker 2: I was wondering if you could help us explain in
Speaker 2: your words what autism actually is.
Speaker 4: Well, ah, that's a very big question. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of different ways to describe autism. It's a condition which
Speaker 4: impacts communication and can impact the way that you perceive
Speaker 4: and navigate the world. Being autistic to me means that
Speaker 4: I sometimes miss what other people catch, but then also
Speaker 4: catch what other people miss.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you think you catch that
Speaker 2: other people might miss.
Speaker 4: Well, I think for me, I think I have a
Speaker 4: really good eye for detail. But at the same time,
Speaker 4: you know, my sensory sensitivity is specifically, my hearing can
Speaker 4: be really high, so I might have noise caancingly headphones,
Speaker 4: but in in exchange, I might, let's say, notice something
Speaker 4: in a in a picture that other people might have missed.
Speaker 4: And it makes me, you know, a really good asset
Speaker 4: to having an escape room, because I think you know,
Speaker 4: that's what neurodiversity is about, right. I love that diversity
Speaker 4: in skills and thoughts.
Speaker 2: So that is excellent and I will be sure to
Speaker 2: call you next time I am going to an escape room.
Speaker 2: So let's shift gears a bit, and let's talk about
Speaker 2: the National Autism Strategy. Can you tell me what you
Speaker 2: think it is setting out to do?
Speaker 4: So with some context, I'm an autistic person and one
Speaker 4: of the members of the National Autism Strategy Overside Council,
Speaker 4: which is overseeing the National Autism Strategy and the development
Speaker 4: there are, specifically the National Autism Strategy. What we're doing
Speaker 4: is that we are attempting to ensure that policies about
Speaker 4: autistic people are designed by and for autistic people. The
Speaker 4: disability community often says nothing about us without us, which
Speaker 4: is why we've released the discussion paper, and we are
Speaker 4: hoping to solicit and collate feedback from the community directly
Speaker 4: because ultimately, for so long, policies and strategies and discourse,
Speaker 4: whether it's about the NDIS, whether it's about the Disability
Speaker 4: or le Commission, the Disability Discrimination Act, they were those
Speaker 4: conversations were often driven by non autistic people, by neurotypical people,
Speaker 4: and I think it's very important to ensure that the
Speaker 4: voices of the people that are the most impacted by
Speaker 4: the policies are the ones who are then in turn
Speaker 4: driving the policies. I like to think of it like,
Speaker 4: would you want a you know, a group of men
Speaker 4: to be discussing policies about reproductive rights without a single woman.
Speaker 2: In the room.
Speaker 4: No? Does it happen, yes, but we don't want it? No, No,
Speaker 4: we did not exactly.
Speaker 2: So some of the areas that the strategy intends to address,
Speaker 2: and I know that we're only at the discussion paper
Speaker 2: stage so far, but the first one is social inclusion.
Speaker 2: Can you explain to us why that's an area that
Speaker 2: is so high up when it comes to being addressed.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so autistic people. They are experiencing life outcomes regarding
Speaker 4: social exclusion that are disproportionately higher competitian non autistic counterparts.
Speaker 4: Some studies were stating that one in three autistic people,
Speaker 4: for example, were avoiding social situations partially due to fear
Speaker 4: of stigma, own discrimination, and from a social inclusion perspective,
Speaker 4: we really want to ensure that all autistic people can
Speaker 4: truly participate socially in the community. You know, let's put
Speaker 4: it this way, do you really want an escape room
Speaker 4: without someone like me? And there it's really about make
Speaker 4: you know, just asking ourselves, Hey, is everybody who is
Speaker 4: on you know, this particular engagement on this at this
Speaker 4: particular event, at this particular this particular sausage resort. Is
Speaker 4: it actually representative of all of all of the Australian
Speaker 4: population And who are the people who are the most
Speaker 4: excluded by certain structural barriers from socially participating?
Speaker 2: And so that is one of the areas that will
Speaker 2: be focused on. Another, of course, is education and employment. Yes,
Speaker 2: what are some of the challenges that exist in those
Speaker 2: spaces at the moment?
Speaker 4: Thank you for asking. So the reason why I think
Speaker 4: we are really interested to hear about, you know, the
Speaker 4: barriers that preclude economic participation is primarily because, well we
Speaker 4: know from the Disability or Commission as well as the
Speaker 4: Senate Select Community Autism that you know, autistic people are
Speaker 4: disproportionately impacted by bullying, by alienation, by assault, violence, ableism.
Speaker 4: One study reported that three out of four autistic students
Speaker 4: in universities do not even disclose their autism to their
Speaker 4: university out of fear of discrimination. I think you know
Speaker 4: autistic people as well as you know people with disability.
Speaker 4: In general, we are not a liability around which to retrofit.
Speaker 4: We're actually a asset into which to invest. We have
Speaker 4: to look at you know, how people are being excluded
Speaker 4: at workplaces, whether our current employment laws are actually sufficiently
Speaker 4: preventing you know, disability vilification at the workplace. I personally
Speaker 4: have been told, and you know, words that I will
Speaker 4: not repeat on this podcast becausees slurs. Because what I
Speaker 4: will say, though, is that I think there are thousands
Speaker 4: of people who are not as lucky as I am.
Speaker 4: Where at least I was somehow able to find a
Speaker 4: backdoor whenever a front door was closed. But I think
Speaker 4: to myself, how many people are not able to access
Speaker 4: that backdoor or a window let alone, you know, are
Speaker 4: they even in the same building. That's why I think
Speaker 4: education and employment are really fundamental to considering that economic
Speaker 4: conclusion question.
Speaker 2: I want to also talk about diagnosis. I know that
Speaker 2: in the discussion paper there was also some commentary about
Speaker 2: the diagnosis of women and girls. What can you tell
Speaker 2: us about what is needed in this space when it
Speaker 2: comes to diagnosing autism.
Speaker 4: We know from the literature that autistic girls and women,
Speaker 4: as well as autistic people from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds,
Speaker 4: especially those from immigrant and refugee backgrounds, as well as
Speaker 4: people from the LGBTQA plus community or people from those
Speaker 4: communities are experiencing greater rates of US structural barriers that
Speaker 4: are precluding them from accessing our timely diagnoses. For example,
Speaker 4: the average age that a autistic girl may get diagnosed,
Speaker 4: some studies have noted maybe up to five to ten
Speaker 4: years later than that of a cist gender man. You know,
Speaker 4: as much as people may love say something like the
Speaker 4: Big Bang theory or rain Man or what's eating Gilbert grapes,
Speaker 4: you know, not all autistic people are a one size
Speaker 4: fits all approach. Who fits that you know media stereotype
Speaker 4: of a you know, good doctor s you know, white
Speaker 4: cich gender man who you know may like puzzles. I
Speaker 4: myself mentioned that I like as staterooms and puzzles, But
Speaker 4: there are so much more to me than just that
Speaker 4: one domain. And I think with diagnoses and support services,
Speaker 4: we really are key to hear from autistic people from
Speaker 4: First Nations, the First Nations communities, as well as from
Speaker 4: autistic girls and women and other other focused focus groups
Speaker 4: and demographics who have been are disproportionately impacted by those
Speaker 4: barriers to accessing diagnoses. Because diagnosticians are ultimately people, that
Speaker 4: means that as people and as humans, they are you know,
Speaker 4: not invulnerable to human bias and to implicit biases.
Speaker 2: And Andy you've already eluded a couple of times to
Speaker 2: the mental health element of all of this. But I mean,
Speaker 2: what can be done in this space.
Speaker 4: I think we have to address the elephant in the room.
Speaker 4: We know from the Senate Select Medium, Autism and the
Speaker 4: Disability or Commission that suicide is something that is affecting
Speaker 4: autistic Australians. The bipartisan report from the Senate Select Comedian
Speaker 4: and Autism reported that autistic Australians have a life expectancy
Speaker 4: twenty to thirty six years shorter than that of the
Speaker 4: general population, with two times the mortality rate, with suicide
Speaker 4: being the number one cause of death. Another study reported
Speaker 4: that nine out of ten autistic women have experienced sexual violence.
Speaker 4: These are rates which I think really demonstrate that we
Speaker 4: need urgent action and we need it now. The reason
Speaker 4: why we have a working group on Mental health and
Speaker 4: we are trying to build a roadmap to improving mental
Speaker 4: health and health outcomes in general for utific people is
Speaker 4: because that impact of discrimination, as well as the reports
Speaker 4: we're hearing of health services, mental health services refusing services
Speaker 4: for autistic people by putting them in the quote unquote
Speaker 4: too hard, too complex basket. These are what are I
Speaker 4: think essentially contributing to so many people in our community
Speaker 4: not being able to live the life to the quality
Speaker 4: that they deserve and to the lifespan that they are entitled.
Speaker 4: I feel incredibly hopeful and incredibly honored to be a
Speaker 4: part of this national Autism strategy because I know that
Speaker 4: if the community engages with this strategy and they're willing
Speaker 4: to continue sharing their stories as they already have and
Speaker 4: offering solution for what they would like to see, we
Speaker 4: can actually start implementing practical and accountable strategies and policies
Speaker 4: that will really enact better outcomes for all of us.
Speaker 4: We want outcomes ultimately, not merely opportunities. And in the
Speaker 4: UK they have a national Autism strategy, and you know,
Speaker 4: we can't let the Brits beat us. We've got to
Speaker 4: catch up with them. You know, if we have definitely
Speaker 4: exactly if we have that competitiveness when it comes to say,
Speaker 4: you know, soccer and football, you know, let's you know,
Speaker 4: put that same energy we put towards the Matilda's winning,
Speaker 4: towards getting our national autism strategy on par with the British.
Speaker 2: One, love it and so Andy. As a final note,
Speaker 2: if we have listeners who are autistic and wanting to
Speaker 2: share their lived experience, can you just tell our listeners
Speaker 2: how they can do that please?
Speaker 4: Absolutely so. There are many ways that the community as
Speaker 4: well as allies can share their thoughts, share their stories.
Speaker 4: We are really keen, as you know, the team behind
Speaker 4: overseeing the development of the National Autism Strategy, to capture
Speaker 4: as many diverse voices as possible. So we have community
Speaker 4: events and you know, I'm happy for the link to
Speaker 4: those community events if you included in the show notes,
Speaker 4: but we have.
Speaker 2: We will absolutely do that.
Speaker 4: We have forums for the community at large as which
Speaker 4: is for allies as well as autistic people, as well
Speaker 4: as forums adjust for autistic people but for those who
Speaker 4: you know may not feel as comfortable to you know,
Speaker 4: be in a workshop or a forum. We also are
Speaker 4: very happy to receive information through ridden feedback. So there
Speaker 4: is a discussion paper that summarizes what we're trying to
Speaker 4: capture information about, and they'll be ways to essentially provide
Speaker 4: your ridden thoughts in response to that discussion paper.
Speaker 2: Brilliant Andy, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2: Really really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Likewise, thank you so much for inviting me. You know
Speaker 4: nothing about us without us.
Speaker 2: I'm sure everyone will love having heard from you.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thank you, buy Zarah.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us today on the Daily OZ. If
Speaker 2: you want more information about how to make a submission
Speaker 2: to help shape the nation's autism strategy, or where you
Speaker 2: can join a community forum, those links are in the
Speaker 2: show notes. We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then,
Speaker 2: have a great day.