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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: This episode will deal with mental health and suicide. If

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Speaker 2: you need help, you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: the sixth of September. I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: Australia's first ever autism strategy is being developed to try

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Speaker 2: improve outcomes for autistic Australians in everything from mental health

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Speaker 2: to social inclusion.

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Speaker 4: We really want to ensure that all autistic people can

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Speaker 4: truly participate socially the community.

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Speaker 2: Stick around until the Deep Dive to hear my conversation

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Speaker 2: with Andy Shim Andy's a member of the council overseeing

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Speaker 2: the new strategy. But before we get to that chat, Sam,

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Speaker 2: yesterday was the first Tuesday of the month, which is

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Speaker 2: RBA Day.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and the RBA decided not to make any

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Speaker 3: big moves Yesterday they kept the interest rate on hold

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Speaker 3: at four point one percent for the third month in

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Speaker 3: a row. This was the last rate decision and RBA

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Speaker 3: meeting for outgoing Governor Philip Lowe, who didn't rule out

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Speaker 3: future hikes to the cash rate, but he did say

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Speaker 3: that inflation had passed its peak. Michelle Bullocks starts as

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Speaker 3: the new RBA governor on the eighteenth of September.

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Speaker 2: PM Anthony Alberizi is in Indonesia today, kicking off what

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Speaker 2: will be a three country diplomatic visit. The PM will

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Speaker 2: attend the Asian Summit, which is a meeting of the

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Speaker 2: Association of Southeast Asian Nations. For his first stop in Jakata.

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Speaker 2: He's expected to meet with other leaders over the next

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Speaker 2: two days before heading to the Philippines for talks with

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Speaker 2: their president.

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Speaker 3: The last of the Aussies have been knocked out of

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Speaker 3: the US Opens singles competition. Top ranked Australian men's player

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Speaker 3: Alex Demenor made it to the fourth round of the

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Speaker 3: Tennis Grand Slam before being knocked out by previous champion

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Speaker 3: Daniel Medvedev on Tuesday morning. The men's and women's finals

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Speaker 3: will be played over the weekend local time, with the

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Speaker 3: competition wrapping up early Monday morning for those of us

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Speaker 3: in the AEEST time zone.

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Speaker 2: And the good news, Sydney FC has launched a pathway

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Speaker 2: to develop and encourage more female footballers to play at

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Speaker 2: a professional level. The program will develop footballers aged between

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Speaker 2: eleven and sixteen years old and will provide a link

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Speaker 2: between community soccer and professional competition. Sydney FC and Matilda's

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Speaker 2: World Cup squad forward Courtney Vin said the program would

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Speaker 2: provide an enormous benefit to the future of Australian women's football.

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Speaker 2: Australia's first ever autism strategy has been released for public

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Speaker 2: feedback to help us understand what the strategy is and

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Speaker 2: what it will do. I'm joined by disability Right to

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Speaker 2: activist and an autistic member of the Council overseeing the

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Speaker 2: National Autism Strategy, Andy shim Andy, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having me. I'm very still honored

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Speaker 4: to be here today.

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Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. I know that you're on

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Speaker 2: here today to talk about the strategy but I do

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Speaker 2: really just want to take a step back first, and

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Speaker 2: I was wondering if you could help us explain in

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Speaker 2: your words what autism actually is.

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Speaker 4: Well, ah, that's a very big question. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: of different ways to describe autism. It's a condition which

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Speaker 4: impacts communication and can impact the way that you perceive

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Speaker 4: and navigate the world. Being autistic to me means that

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Speaker 4: I sometimes miss what other people catch, but then also

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Speaker 4: catch what other people miss.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you think you catch that

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Speaker 2: other people might miss.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think for me, I think I have a

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Speaker 4: really good eye for detail. But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: you know, my sensory sensitivity is specifically, my hearing can

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Speaker 4: be really high, so I might have noise caancingly headphones,

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Speaker 4: but in in exchange, I might, let's say, notice something

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Speaker 4: in a in a picture that other people might have missed.

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Speaker 4: And it makes me, you know, a really good asset

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Speaker 4: to having an escape room, because I think you know,

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Speaker 4: that's what neurodiversity is about, right. I love that diversity

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Speaker 4: in skills and thoughts.

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Speaker 2: So that is excellent and I will be sure to

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Speaker 2: call you next time I am going to an escape room.

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Speaker 2: So let's shift gears a bit, and let's talk about

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Speaker 2: the National Autism Strategy. Can you tell me what you

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Speaker 2: think it is setting out to do?

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Speaker 4: So with some context, I'm an autistic person and one

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Speaker 4: of the members of the National Autism Strategy Overside Council,

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Speaker 4: which is overseeing the National Autism Strategy and the development

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Speaker 4: there are, specifically the National Autism Strategy. What we're doing

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Speaker 4: is that we are attempting to ensure that policies about

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Speaker 4: autistic people are designed by and for autistic people. The

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Speaker 4: disability community often says nothing about us without us, which

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Speaker 4: is why we've released the discussion paper, and we are

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Speaker 4: hoping to solicit and collate feedback from the community directly

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Speaker 4: because ultimately, for so long, policies and strategies and discourse,

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Speaker 4: whether it's about the NDIS, whether it's about the Disability

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Speaker 4: or le Commission, the Disability Discrimination Act, they were those

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Speaker 4: conversations were often driven by non autistic people, by neurotypical people,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's very important to ensure that the

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Speaker 4: voices of the people that are the most impacted by

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Speaker 4: the policies are the ones who are then in turn

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Speaker 4: driving the policies. I like to think of it like,

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Speaker 4: would you want a you know, a group of men

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Speaker 4: to be discussing policies about reproductive rights without a single woman.

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Speaker 2: In the room.

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Speaker 4: No? Does it happen, yes, but we don't want it? No, No,

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Speaker 4: we did not exactly.

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Speaker 2: So some of the areas that the strategy intends to address,

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Speaker 2: and I know that we're only at the discussion paper

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Speaker 2: stage so far, but the first one is social inclusion.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain to us why that's an area that

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Speaker 2: is so high up when it comes to being addressed.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely so autistic people. They are experiencing life outcomes regarding

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Speaker 4: social exclusion that are disproportionately higher competitian non autistic counterparts.

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Speaker 4: Some studies were stating that one in three autistic people,

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Speaker 4: for example, were avoiding social situations partially due to fear

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Speaker 4: of stigma, own discrimination, and from a social inclusion perspective,

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Speaker 4: we really want to ensure that all autistic people can

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Speaker 4: truly participate socially in the community. You know, let's put

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Speaker 4: it this way, do you really want an escape room

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Speaker 4: without someone like me? And there it's really about make

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Speaker 4: you know, just asking ourselves, Hey, is everybody who is

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Speaker 4: on you know, this particular engagement on this at this

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Speaker 4: particular event, at this particular this particular sausage resort. Is

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Speaker 4: it actually representative of all of all of the Australian

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Speaker 4: population And who are the people who are the most

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Speaker 4: excluded by certain structural barriers from socially participating?

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Speaker 2: And so that is one of the areas that will

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Speaker 2: be focused on. Another, of course, is education and employment. Yes,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the challenges that exist in those

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Speaker 2: spaces at the moment?

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Speaker 4: Thank you for asking. So the reason why I think

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Speaker 4: we are really interested to hear about, you know, the

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Speaker 4: barriers that preclude economic participation is primarily because, well we

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Speaker 4: know from the Disability or Commission as well as the

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Speaker 4: Senate Select Community Autism that you know, autistic people are

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Speaker 4: disproportionately impacted by bullying, by alienation, by assault, violence, ableism.

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Speaker 4: One study reported that three out of four autistic students

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Speaker 4: in universities do not even disclose their autism to their

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Speaker 4: university out of fear of discrimination. I think you know

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Speaker 4: autistic people as well as you know people with disability.

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Speaker 4: In general, we are not a liability around which to retrofit.

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Speaker 4: We're actually a asset into which to invest. We have

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Speaker 4: to look at you know, how people are being excluded

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Speaker 4: at workplaces, whether our current employment laws are actually sufficiently

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Speaker 4: preventing you know, disability vilification at the workplace. I personally

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Speaker 4: have been told, and you know, words that I will

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Speaker 4: not repeat on this podcast becausees slurs. Because what I

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Speaker 4: will say, though, is that I think there are thousands

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Speaker 4: of people who are not as lucky as I am.

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Speaker 4: Where at least I was somehow able to find a

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Speaker 4: backdoor whenever a front door was closed. But I think

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Speaker 4: to myself, how many people are not able to access

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Speaker 4: that backdoor or a window let alone, you know, are

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Speaker 4: they even in the same building. That's why I think

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Speaker 4: education and employment are really fundamental to considering that economic

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Speaker 4: conclusion question.

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Speaker 2: I want to also talk about diagnosis. I know that

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Speaker 2: in the discussion paper there was also some commentary about

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Speaker 2: the diagnosis of women and girls. What can you tell

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Speaker 2: us about what is needed in this space when it

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Speaker 2: comes to diagnosing autism.

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Speaker 4: We know from the literature that autistic girls and women,

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Speaker 4: as well as autistic people from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds,

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Speaker 4: especially those from immigrant and refugee backgrounds, as well as

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Speaker 4: people from the LGBTQA plus community or people from those

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Speaker 4: communities are experiencing greater rates of US structural barriers that

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Speaker 4: are precluding them from accessing our timely diagnoses. For example,

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Speaker 4: the average age that a autistic girl may get diagnosed,

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Speaker 4: some studies have noted maybe up to five to ten

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Speaker 4: years later than that of a cist gender man. You know,

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Speaker 4: as much as people may love say something like the

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Speaker 4: Big Bang theory or rain Man or what's eating Gilbert grapes,

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Speaker 4: you know, not all autistic people are a one size

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Speaker 4: fits all approach. Who fits that you know media stereotype

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Speaker 4: of a you know, good doctor s you know, white

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Speaker 4: cich gender man who you know may like puzzles. I

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Speaker 4: myself mentioned that I like as staterooms and puzzles, But

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Speaker 4: there are so much more to me than just that

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Speaker 4: one domain. And I think with diagnoses and support services,

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Speaker 4: we really are key to hear from autistic people from

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Speaker 4: First Nations, the First Nations communities, as well as from

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Speaker 4: autistic girls and women and other other focused focus groups

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Speaker 4: and demographics who have been are disproportionately impacted by those

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Speaker 4: barriers to accessing diagnoses. Because diagnosticians are ultimately people, that

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Speaker 4: means that as people and as humans, they are you know,

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Speaker 4: not invulnerable to human bias and to implicit biases.

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Speaker 2: And Andy you've already eluded a couple of times to

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Speaker 2: the mental health element of all of this. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: what can be done in this space.

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Speaker 4: I think we have to address the elephant in the room.

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Speaker 4: We know from the Senate Select Medium, Autism and the

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Speaker 4: Disability or Commission that suicide is something that is affecting

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Speaker 4: autistic Australians. The bipartisan report from the Senate Select Comedian

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Speaker 4: and Autism reported that autistic Australians have a life expectancy

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Speaker 4: twenty to thirty six years shorter than that of the

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Speaker 4: general population, with two times the mortality rate, with suicide

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Speaker 4: being the number one cause of death. Another study reported

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Speaker 4: that nine out of ten autistic women have experienced sexual violence.

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Speaker 4: These are rates which I think really demonstrate that we

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Speaker 4: need urgent action and we need it now. The reason

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Speaker 4: why we have a working group on Mental health and

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Speaker 4: we are trying to build a roadmap to improving mental

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Speaker 4: health and health outcomes in general for utific people is

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Speaker 4: because that impact of discrimination, as well as the reports

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Speaker 4: we're hearing of health services, mental health services refusing services

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Speaker 4: for autistic people by putting them in the quote unquote

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Speaker 4: too hard, too complex basket. These are what are I

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Speaker 4: think essentially contributing to so many people in our community

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Speaker 4: not being able to live the life to the quality

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Speaker 4: that they deserve and to the lifespan that they are entitled.

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Speaker 4: I feel incredibly hopeful and incredibly honored to be a

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Speaker 4: part of this national Autism strategy because I know that

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Speaker 4: if the community engages with this strategy and they're willing

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Speaker 4: to continue sharing their stories as they already have and

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Speaker 4: offering solution for what they would like to see, we

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Speaker 4: can actually start implementing practical and accountable strategies and policies

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Speaker 4: that will really enact better outcomes for all of us.

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Speaker 4: We want outcomes ultimately, not merely opportunities. And in the

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Speaker 4: UK they have a national Autism strategy, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't let the Brits beat us. We've got to

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Speaker 4: catch up with them. You know, if we have definitely

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Speaker 4: exactly if we have that competitiveness when it comes to say,

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Speaker 4: you know, soccer and football, you know, let's you know,

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Speaker 4: put that same energy we put towards the Matilda's winning,

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Speaker 4: towards getting our national autism strategy on par with the British.

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Speaker 2: One, love it and so Andy. As a final note,

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Speaker 2: if we have listeners who are autistic and wanting to

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Speaker 2: share their lived experience, can you just tell our listeners

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Speaker 2: how they can do that please?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely so. There are many ways that the community as

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Speaker 4: well as allies can share their thoughts, share their stories.

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Speaker 4: We are really keen, as you know, the team behind

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Speaker 4: overseeing the development of the National Autism Strategy, to capture

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Speaker 4: as many diverse voices as possible. So we have community

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Speaker 4: events and you know, I'm happy for the link to

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Speaker 4: those community events if you included in the show notes,

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Speaker 4: but we have.

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Speaker 2: We will absolutely do that.

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Speaker 4: We have forums for the community at large as which

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Speaker 4: is for allies as well as autistic people, as well

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Speaker 4: as forums adjust for autistic people but for those who

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Speaker 4: you know may not feel as comfortable to you know,

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Speaker 4: be in a workshop or a forum. We also are

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Speaker 4: very happy to receive information through ridden feedback. So there

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Speaker 4: is a discussion paper that summarizes what we're trying to

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Speaker 4: capture information about, and they'll be ways to essentially provide

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Speaker 4: your ridden thoughts in response to that discussion paper.

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Speaker 2: Brilliant Andy, thank you so much for your time today.

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Speaker 2: Really really appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Likewise, thank you so much for inviting me. You know

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Speaker 4: nothing about us without us.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure everyone will love having heard from you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thank you, buy Zarah.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us today on the Daily OZ. If

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Speaker 2: you want more information about how to make a submission

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Speaker 2: to help shape the nation's autism strategy, or where you

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Speaker 2: can join a community forum, those links are in the

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Speaker 2: show notes. We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then,

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Speaker 2: have a great day.