WEBVTT - Navigating your 20’s with the Shameless Podcast 🎙 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.080 We're twenty three. We have all the time and freedom 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.360 in the world that we're not going to have when 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.200 we want to have families and mortgages and partners who 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:13.880 are potentially financially relying on us to contribute to our household. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:15.720 So we just thought, well, if we're not going to 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.160 take the chance, now, when the hell are we going 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:17.560 to do it? 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:34.360 The phone was gone, finally making welcome back to the 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.920 Rise and Conquered podcasts. This podcast is for women who 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.120 want to take control of their lives, gain the confidence 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.839 to live unapologetically, and who are ready to turn their 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.200 biggest dreams into their reality. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.720 former lawyer turned entrepreneur and personal development junkie. Today I'm 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.360 chatting with two women who I'm sure need no introduction, 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.600 but if you aren't for me with Zara and Michelle. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.280 They are the hosts of the award winning pop culture 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:09.479 podcast Shameless. Michelle and Zara a Melbourne based journalist who 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.319 met when they were working as writers. In March twenty eighteen, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.280 after their podcast Pitch was declined by their employees at 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.200 the time, Mitch and Zara went off on their own 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.200 and started the podcast Shameless. Since then, the girls have 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.840 become a leading voice for young women and have now 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.600 released their very own book, The Space Between. The book 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.240 is an amazing read all about the space in between 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.679 your teen years and proper adulthood. I love the book 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.880 because it brought up so many important conversations and opinions 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.480 that really made me feel seen and heard as a 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.120 twenty something female. In our chat today, we get down 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.680 how the Shameless podcast unfolded and we get more into 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.720 these important topics in the book. I absolutely adore the 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.240 Shameless podcast and I adore that book, so I'm just 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.080 so thrilled to bring you this episode. Let's get into it. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.440 Mish and Zara, Welcome to the show. Thanks to do usks. 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.960 We're very excited to be here. It is day two 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.320 of book promo, and when I saw that we had 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:21.960 your podcast this morning, I was like, fuck, yes, that 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.840 is so our vibe. We are so thrilled to be 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:24.760 on this chat with you. 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.079 What a lovely start to the day. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.200 Right back at you, like like, you guys know massive 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.600 fans and I'm just so excited to dive into your 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.360 new book and chat to you guys because I've been 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.240 reading it the last couple of weeks to finish it 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.120 a couple of nights ago, and yeah, I'm just so 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.760 excited and it's it's it's so good to like chat 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.080 to you guys. Because I was telling Zara and Mish 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.280 before we jumped on, like, I feel like I know 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:51.400 everything about you? 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.600 What if people say that, and I'm like, do you? 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.240 I mean, I'm not gonna lie as well, if you've 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.079 read the Space, you probably do know everything there is 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.160 to know about us because we are so incredibly personal 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.760 in this book, and like we've just kind of said 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.359 everything there is to say, so I don't doubt that 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.120 I probably know better than I know myself. 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.799 I literally feel like us three best friends. So I'm 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.840 just like friends like a wave. Guys were also on Zoom, 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.360 so I'm like using my hands being a bit crazy. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.440 But welcome to the Rise and Conker Podcast. We're going 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.880 to get into all the fun things today. But before 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.919 we get into that, a question that I'm asking all 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.560 my Season three guests is what is a daily non negotiable? 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.160 And I know you guys are in lockdown in Victoria, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:44.280 so this may be you know, people may feel you 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.680 and resonate with you. On this, But what is something 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.560 you're doing every single day that helps you either step 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.840 into your power or be your sort of like best self, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.160 And you're like, I need to do this otherwise it's 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:56.720 a shit show. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.800 Who I'll go first? Okay? Can see you like deliberating 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:05.320 behind your microphone. Mine would be going to the dog park, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.120 provided it's sunny, so that is a little bit negotiable. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.240 If it's raining, we'll take our puppy for a walk. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.640 We got a puppy in Lockdown one point zero and 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.560 he's beautiful. His name is Benji. He's a little kvoodle 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.000 and taking him to the dog park almost every day, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.840 probably six days a week, is just the best part 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.520 of my date because it just gives my boyfriend Mitch 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.040 and I an opportunity to get some fresh air and 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.960 walk around and see our dog just play with all 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.839 the other puppies at the park. Like it's such a 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.640 wholesome and beautiful daily ritual that we now do, and 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.279 I love going there actually at the end of a 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.760 long day of work. We go there most days around 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.680 five o'clock, and that just means that we get to 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.400 have this really pure and wholesome experience at the end 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:50.479 of every tough day. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.480 I feel like mine is not quite as pure or whole. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.520 The only thing I find myself dogging every day. I 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.359 was thinking about this is I do have a ritual 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.480 own It is just before the start of every working day, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.640 going to the cafe, like three hundred meters down the road, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.880 walking there, waiting for the coffee, walking back, And that 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.360 is probably the only thing that I do day in 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.680 day out that's exactly the same at the moment, but 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:13.680 it kind of gives me that. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.880 Kicked out to the day. It's like literally with the coffee. 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.720 But I think once I'm out of my apartment, get 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.400 a quick bit of fresh air and then walk back, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:20.400 I'm ready to kind of. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.880 Get into the zone. I mean, we're all working from home. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:24.720 I think I kind of need to get out before 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.680 I get back at my laptop and start. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.720 Yes, And I think, like both of you guys, it's 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.360 definitely like a routine. You have something that it happens 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.880 every single day. You know what's going to happen, and 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:39.240 it's almost like a bit comforting. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.840 Yeah, for sure, I think so. I think, particularly in 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.560 this kind of lockdown, I don't think anyone should underestimate 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.839 how tricky. It is being in stage full lockdown for 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.160 as long as Victorians and Melbournians in particular have been 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.040 in it. It is such a different way of living. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.920 And the amount of time you spent indoors in your 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.359 apartment is just so insane, like it's really needed to 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.640 get out. Like it's very telling that Zara and I 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.719 have both basically just said just to get fresh air. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.960 That is priority right now. And your priorities do shift 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.400 so much when you're in a weird state of limbo 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:14.839 like we are right now. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.520 Yes, one hundred percent, I could imagine, and I remember 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.880 when we were on lockdown, just like getting out of 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.920 the house and I was going for I've never been 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.159 on so many walks in my life and just getting 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.680 that fresh air and getting outside. One hundred percent. I 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.000 feel you on that. So let's chat about your book 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.960 The Space Between and I'm holding it up, guys, and 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.800 I've got it beside me. So this book is all 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:48.240 about the chaos, questions and magic in our twenties. So 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.880 I've just finished reading it and I absolutely loved it. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:57.080 I honestly felt like really heard and really seen. It 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.560 was the first time I felt like that in a 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.000 piece of literature, if that makes sense, And so I 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.240 want to get into the book before we do that. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.560 I am a very light control freak person, and so 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.560 I have visions of how things are going to go 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:14.560 on my mind, and if they don't go like that, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.000 I struggle a little bit. And so I was thinking 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.840 about you guys, and I was like, holy crap, they're 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.280 launching this book. I'm sure you had lots of kind 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.280 of visualizations about, you know, having a book launch and 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.640 having that money and it going a certain way, and 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.200 because of Lockdown, it hasn't gone that way. So tell 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.680 me about how the book launch has gone in lockdown. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.400 How are you guys feeling about it. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.640 It's so interesting because I think I only gave myself 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.080 a moment maybe it was two days ago, where I thought, 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:48.840 God it, it kind of. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.480 Would have been nice to do it how we always 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:51.280 thought we were going to do it. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.480 And I haven't given myself many of those moments because 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.840 kind of it is what it is, and I don't 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.520 think dwelling is particularly healthy for anyone. But I did 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.480 have a moment where I kind of thought there was 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.040 an alternate reality where we were going to be going 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.520 on a national tour and going to cities and doing shows, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.720 or we hadn't been before and we're going to be 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.240 traveling a lot, and it was going to be much 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:11.960 more of a thing and that would have been lovely. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.240 But that said and whan, it's been. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.640 Very busy and we haven't even left our homes, so 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.800 I kind of think, well, maybe we wouldn't have been 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.280 able to hack it anyway, Like maybe it's a beautiful 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:24.960 way to do it, being able to kind of be 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.200 in our homes and not travel so much because we 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.480 travel usually so much for work. Anyway that we can 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.400 kind of do all this work and still feel like 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.400 things aren't completely crazy and out of our control. 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.520 So I had that moment, but then I thought. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.440 I don't know how I would have gone in that 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.559 alternate reality of what was meant to happen, Like maybe 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.240 this is still best case scenario. I mean, it's sad 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.400 that we can't meet our listeners, but beyond that, I 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.240 know we'll get to these cities and I know we'll 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:50.960 get there eventually. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.440 Yeah, I mean, it's so sad we can't go see 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.600 our listeners, like Zara just touched on, because doing live 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.600 shows and doing events with our audience is one of 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.319 our favorite parts of the job, so not being able 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:04.920 to do that in twenty twenty, we were planning a 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.920 national book launch, so we were going to be going 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.240 to every major state and doing shows. We were going 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.800 to be potentially going over to New Zealand as well 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.160 and doing stuff over there in Auckland. So to kind 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.920 of see all that fall apart was of course upsetting. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.400 But I think like this year, we've all had to 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.600 let go of so much, and I think for Zara 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.520 and I it's really important that when those losses have come, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.440 or when those disappointments have come, for us to just 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.360 move on. I think if we wallowed about all the 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.920 different things that we missed out on with this book, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.680 we'd just get really despondent and really sad, and we'd 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.040 kind of get stuck in this mental rut. But it's 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.000 really important for us, not just with the book, but 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.400 with Shameless in general, because disappointments come right Like anyone 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.360 who runs their own business or anyone who is self 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.800 employed will know that you miss out on opportunities or 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.360 things pop up that you would really love to do 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.080 that just don't work out the way you hoped that 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.240 they would, and I think I think anyone who's in 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.880 this game knows that you kind of just need to 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.160 pick yourself back up, put your chin up, and not 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.520 think about it too much. So from the moment Zara 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.920 and I realized that the book tour wouldn't be happening, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.280 we really haven't considered it so much. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.360 We haven't even had a conversation. I don't know. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.520 I think we just accepted it. But like, well, Okay, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.280 there's plenty of things that a lot of people are 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.240 missing out on this year. I mean, my sister just 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.199 recently had to move her wedding. She's got a new 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.880 baby that people can't come and visit and spend time 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.320 with and bond with. Like my sister Evelyn is stuck 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.040 in Bendigo doing a medicine degree and can't see anyone. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.200 That hasn't seen her boyfriend, hasn't seen her family for 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.000 two months. So when I look at the people that 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.400 I love the most in my life, I'm kind of 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.160 realizing that, yes, it sucks we can't go through this amazing, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.199 glittery book to us, but also everyone's had to sacrifice things, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.520 and this is just the thing for us. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:58.920 I absolutely love that and I resonate with that so much, because, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.160 like you said, twenty two twenty has just been a 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.720 year that you know, we couldn't we obviously couldn't have 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.400 for scene, and so many people are dealing with losses 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.080 and not being able to do something. And I know 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.400 this is very like frivolous, but I had twenty twenty 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.240 was like my year of adventures. I was like going 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.040 to Europe and going to New Zealand, and I'm someone 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.200 who doesn't like to travel, so like I had got 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.520 my head around that, and then when it wasn't happening, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.240 it is like, of course it's devastating, but I love 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:30.880 what you guys said, like you just got to peek 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.760 yourself up and keep going and just go, Okay, it's 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.720 not happening. This is this is not how a book 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.360 launch you know, would be. But we're going to do 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.320 the best we can. And I know you guys are 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.480 doing that, so that's awesome. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.319 Yeah. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:46.720 I mean I always like to look at it in 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.520 the sense of like, well, what can I actually control 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.520 in this scenario, because there are a handful of things 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.040 I can control and there are a handful of things 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.840 I absolutely cannot. So I think we're fixating a lot 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.200 on the things that we can control here, you know, 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.920 what kinds of media we do from home and our 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.080 attitudes through that time. And I think once you do that, 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:03.880 you kind of let go of a lot of stuff 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.360 and you're not carrying the burden of stuff you actually 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.720 cannot control, because I just don't think it's that healthy. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.400 Yeah, And I mean we're the same as you. We 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.440 were both supposed to be going to Europe on the 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.120 exact same day, on the exact same flight with our boyfriends, so. 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.960 Not deliberately act very accidentally. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.920 Accidentally because Zara and I just have the same brain 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.000 now and clearly think to do the exact same thing 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.280 at the exact same time. But yeah, I once the 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.839 Europe trip was canceled, I actually don't remember like going 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.920 through a grieving process for that or being upset, like, 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.160 of course it's disappointing, But I think both of us 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.120 and our partners are just the kind of people where 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.400 it's like, Okay, well that's the reality. What can we 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:41.960 do to fix it, or what can we do to 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.400 I guess still make twenty twenty worthwhile and still pack 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.839 it with whatever we can. So yeah, I mean it's 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.040 a really tricky year and we're just going to try 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.200 and get through it and hopefully things go back to 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:55.600 normal sooner rather than later. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.000 Yes, And I love what you were saying before. I 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.640 think Zara said in regards to you know, maybe this 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.040 is best case scenario, if that makes sense, But it's 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.440 an amazing way to look at it. All right, girls, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.920 let's switch gears and take it back to the start. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.400 So same. Shameless started as a side hustle, and I 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.920 know you were both working full time in media companies 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.920 and then you kind of came to this crossroads and 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.120 you know, this side hustle project kind of got bigger 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.680 than your jobs. And I would love for you to 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.120 talk about kind of the moment when you were like, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.640 oh wait, this is real, we really have something here, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.960 and kind of what was going through your head when 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.440 you decided to take Shameless to that next step go 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.960 full time. What did that look like for you, guys? 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.240 I mean, I wondered if that moment was the same, 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.120 But I think in a few conversations that miss and 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.200 I have had in the last couple of years, I 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.240 think it might be. We started Shameless in March twenty eighteen, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.400 we were both working together. In the July of that year, 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.920 Mish went freelance and I went to another job for 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.360 six months while we tried to really or we tried 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.240 to really make Shameless a thing on the side, and 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.360 we were kind of building it up, but also kind 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.440 of distracted by the need to do our jobs and 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:14.120 earn money. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:16.720 And I think by the. 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.480 Next February, so it probably took an entire year, when 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.320 I was sitting at my normal nine to five job 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.400 and we were putting out tickets for our very first 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.760 live show, and I was like the world's worst employee 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.800 in that job, because I spent half my screen was 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.560 on Shameless stuff, and half my screen was on. 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.480 Other stuff and on the work I should have been doing. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.600 And we were selling these tickets at about nine am, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.560 and I was sitting at my desk and we watched 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.840 them go in about six minutes, and I was like, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.720 I'm still sitting at my nine to five job, and 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.280 there are two hundred and fifty people who have snapped 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.320 up these tickets faster than I've been able to refresh 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.200 the page. And I think we were both like then 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.600 we probably I need to get out of this job now, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.720 like we need to really commit to this full time 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.000 and make it, you know, our baby, dare I say, 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.240 I mean it had been, but our proper baby, because 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.840 suddenly I think if people are willing to give you 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.280 their time on an evening, I just I don't know. 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.840 I feel like something about that means it's like a 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.880 different kind of investment than just putting them or putting 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.760 you in their ears every day or every week. 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.560 Yeah, like kind of compared to you know, just a 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.720 free podcast, and then you're like, oh no, wow, like 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.000 we have a community here. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.520 I think that was a huge one for us, Like 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.720 when we left our jobs. I think a lot of 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.840 people when they hear our story, they think the podcast 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.640 must have been making money or it must have been 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.160 a source of income for us early on. It is 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.080 not the case. When we left our jobs, I think 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.120 the podcast was maybe almost three months old, probably not 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.600 even that, so we only had a couple of thousand 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.120 listeners to the show every week. But we just knew 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.560 in our guts there was something about Shameless that just 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.600 said to us, this is it. This is it. You 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.880 have to pursue it, you have to give it a shot. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.280 I think it's also important to note that It wasn't 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.080 like we were in the dream job. It wasn't like 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.000 we were super happy with the work we were doing. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.320 We were looking at a job environment that we felt 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.320 was a little bit toxic, and we also felt like 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.600 we weren't secure. We were really worried about either losing 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.840 our jobs and having our entire Melbourne office, which was 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.680 a satellite office, being closed, or we were worried about 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.880 the pressure to move up to Sydney, and we didn't 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:24.520 want to move to Sydney. We love our families, we 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.800 love our lives here in Melbourne. So as much as 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.800 like looking back it's like, oh wow, what a decision 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.680 like leaving a job to pursue this thing that's made 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.920 no money and doesn't really have an audience and is 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.160 really quite new and fresh, we weren't happy, and so 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.320 we kind of thought, we're twenty three. We have all 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.200 the time and freedom in the world that we're not 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.680 going to have when we want to have families and 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.360 mortgages and partners who were potentially financially relying on us 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.080 to contribute to our household. So we just thought, well, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:56.440 if we're not going to take the chance now, when 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.920 the hell are we going to do it, and I'm 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.760 really glad we did. The podcast didn't even start making 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.320 money until I think October of that year, so we 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.800 launched in March. We left our jobs in June July. 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.159 The podcast started providing a very very small amount of 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.240 income in October November, and it wasn't until I guess 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.760 we got to that live show stage that we thought, Okay, yes, 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.040 Zara also needs to quit her job, but this needs 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:22.639 to be something that we just funnel all of our 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.680 energy into. If it fails, it fails, but we really 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.560 don't think it will because there's something good here. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.560 I absolutely love that, and I resonate with that so much. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.439 I remember there being a point where I was working 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:41.320 full time corporate Zarah. I laughed because I would like, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.800 you know, like have my like law documents up here, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.560 and then like over here, I'd be like editing a 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.960 YouTube or putting it idle or something, and then quickly 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.280 like exit out of it. But I resonate with that 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.480 so much. And I love what you guys said in 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.760 regards to you had such a passion and you weren't 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.560 happy in your nine to five's and you're like if 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.479 now when, And I think it's huge. And but in 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.240 saying that, I think a lot of people, you know, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.240 pick the safe option. They almost are kind of like 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.679 they're at that point and they just don't sort of 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.719 go down that route because I feel like, you know, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.080 growing up, we're very much taught to pick the safe 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.760 option and you shouldn't, you know, go outside of this box. 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.280 And so i'd love to ask you, guys, if you 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.200 know a listener, And this podcast is all about action, 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.440 actionable tips, so I'll do it throughout the whole thing, 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.639 but i'd love to ask you guys, you know, if 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.399 there is a listener and they're currently got this side hustle, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.280 they're super passionate about it, and they are in a 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.200 nine to five in a full time position, and they 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.480 are kind of at this crossroads they're like, what do 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.320 I do? Do I go fall into this? Because me 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.120 very much, I was like, if I don't go fall 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.720 into this, now, I think I'm going to kind of 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.040 miss the boat or it's all going to just get 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.480 too much. So if they're at that crossroads, what advice 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.840 would you have to them in regards to following a 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.160 passion compared to, you know, sticking to the safe nine 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:12.560 to five. 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.440 And the thing is it depends on a definition of safe, right, 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.480 because I actually think that pursuing shameless was the safe option. 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.399 I think it was the safe option because maybe not 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.040 financially or but I felt like, this is the safe 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.400 option because this is an idea that I don't see 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.280