1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily art, this 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: is the Daily ears. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: Oh now it makes sense. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Odds. It's Wednesday, 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 3: the twenty first of January. I'm Elliott Laurie. 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: I'm Billy fitz Simons. 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 3: This week, three shark attacks were reported at Sydney Beach's 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 3: over just two days. It's left swimmers along the coastline 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: asking the question what's going on. To help us understand 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: what's driving the spike and what it means for public safety, 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 3: we're joined by Associate Professor of Environmental Science, doctor Daryl 12 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 3: McPhee from Bond University. In today's podcast, we're going to 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 3: chat to doctor McPhee about why there's been so many encounters, 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 3: what swimmers need to look out for, and how he 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 3: thinks the government should respond. 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 2: Elliott, I feel like every single conversation I've had over 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: the past couple of days has been about the shark 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: attacks in Sydney, because it's unusual that there are so 19 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: many any such a short period of time. Do you 20 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: want to take us back to the first one that 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: happened this week? 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: So it all started on Sunday when a twelve year 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 3: old boy was attacked near Shark Beach in Sydney's East. 24 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 3: He was taken to hospital in a critical condition, with 25 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 3: police at the time saying he's quote in for the 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: fight of his life now. It was reported that his 27 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: injuries were consistent with what is believed to have been 28 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 3: a large shark, most likely a bull shark. 29 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: Okay, And so that was the first attack, that was 30 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: on Sunday, and then on Monday we heard of another one. 31 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: Right, yes, exactly, so we had this first incident. Then 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 3: on Monday we heard two more reports of shark attacks 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: in Sydney. The first one was an eleven year old 34 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: boy who had a surfboard bidden by a shark at 35 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: d Y, which is on Sydney's northern beaches. He was 36 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: not injured in the incident, but his board certainly was. 37 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: Did you see the pictures of this I did. 38 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: It was a legitimate bite out of the surf a chomp, 39 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: a chomp, that is a great way to describe it. 40 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: And luckily the boy wasn't injured, which is easy to 41 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: think about when you see this photo of the surfboard 42 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: that has a big chunk taken out of it. 43 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 3: It was certainly a narrow escape and that shark would 44 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: have got a mouthful of styrofoam at the very least. 45 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: Yes. 46 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: Now, a few hours after that, a man in his 47 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: twenties was attacked by a sharknear Manly Beach, which is 48 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 3: also in the city's north, not too far from d 49 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: Y and he was a surfer as well, and it 50 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: was reported that he was taken to hospital in a 51 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: critical condition. Now, I just wanted to flag that there 52 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: has actually been a fourth bite in New South Wales, 53 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: which came yesterday, so that's Tuesday this week, and this 54 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 3: time it was a surfer on the mid North Coast 55 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: who managed to escape with just a few grazes. Now, 56 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 3: while this one wasn't in Sydney, so we won't count 57 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: it as part of the sort of total going on 58 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 3: in Sydney, it does contribute to that sense that there's 59 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: a lot of shark activity happening in the state this week. 60 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: And in the office we have had so many questions 61 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: just internally about what is happening, why now, what is 62 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: it about, you know, weather conditions, if it is that 63 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: that is causing all of these shark bites, And we 64 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: put you to the task of asking this to an 65 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: actual expert, and I believe we're about to hear that interview. 66 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. So I spoke to doctor Daryl McFee. 67 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: He's renowned for being assarlily sort of go to experts 68 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 3: on sharks and coastal safety. His work includes a study 69 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: of shark bite incidents in particular and control measures for sharks, 70 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: as well as how human activity impacts the behavior of 71 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: marine life, and he joins us now, Darryl, welcome to 72 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: the Daily Oz. 73 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for having me. 74 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: Now we're talking today because there's been three shark attacks 75 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 3: in just two days at Sydney Beaches. Can you start 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: by explaining why it feels like there's been a surge 77 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: in activity over the past week. 78 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: It's unusual to have those series of three bytes in 79 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and we've just had a fourth byte 80 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: in the mid North Coast as well. So at a 81 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: decaytal trend, the number of shark bites is increasing. We're 82 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: also getting better at spotting sharks, recording sharks and circulating 83 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: that information around through various platforms. So it's a common 84 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: of things, but certainly in New South Wales the number 85 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: of shark bites has been increasing over. 86 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: Time and how does that figure compare to maybe the 87 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: national trend or the historical trend. 88 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: There have been increasing trends in other states, with the 89 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: exception of Tasmania. The more recent bites have been occurring 90 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: in northern New South Wales and now we're seeing that 91 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: series of bites in that short period of time in 92 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: the greater Sydney area. In the Sydney area, what do we. 93 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 3: Know about the sharks or the type of sharks that 94 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: are responsible for these bites. 95 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: There are three shark species responsible for most serious bites 96 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: and fatalities. That's the white shark, the tiger shark and 97 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: the bull shark. At least two of the incidents in 98 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: Sydney and possibly the third are probably from bull sharks. 99 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: We expect bull sharks to be present in Sydney Harbor 100 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: and in the coastal areas around Sydney during these warmer months, 101 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: particularly during January and February, so it's no surprise that 102 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: bull sharks have been there. The first recorded bite on 103 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: the European in Cidney Harbor was eighteen oh seven, so 104 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: it is something that has happened for a long time. 105 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: And why this week is there anything happening with the 106 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 3: climate that could have spurred this on. 107 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: There's significant rainfall in the catchments. Bull sharks are very 108 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: well adapted to feeding in murky water. That rain also 109 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: flashes down the prey of bull sharks and can concentrate 110 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: them in areas such as the mouth of rivers, estuaries 111 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: and embayments like Sydney Harbor. It's always the case at 112 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: low light levels you expect to see more activity from 113 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: sharks but also other fish predators. Particularly for bull sharks, 114 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: that later afternoon period seems to be one where they're 115 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more active. So you've got the right 116 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: time of the year, you've got the right conditions. That 117 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: doesn't guarantee, thankfully, that a bite will always occur, but 118 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: there is an elevated shark activity inshore during those set 119 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: of conditions, and that's what sadly has been experienced. 120 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: A common reaction from people reading the headlines is maybe 121 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: to have a little bit of panic and maybe stay 122 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: out of the water. Are you able to put into 123 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 3: context what the chances of a shark attack are. 124 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: The chance of an unprovoked shark by occurring is very low. 125 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: It was low last week, it's low this week, and 126 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: it'll be low again next week. It just doesn't feel 127 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: like it with this series of bites. But to put 128 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: it in a perspective, there's been four bites in Sydney 129 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: Harbor over the last fifty years. Is substantially a greater 130 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: risk of drowning at a surf beach than you are 131 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: being killed by a shark. But the government has has 132 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,119 Speaker 1: closed the beaches silly on the Northern Beaches for forty 133 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: eight hours, and I think that's a prudent move. If 134 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: you're a Sydney sider, I wouldn't be getting back in 135 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: the water until that murky water from that rainfall event 136 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: has cleared, and avoiding particularly that late afternoon period. It's 137 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: probably some of the key tips I can give Sydney siders. 138 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 3: And you mentioned there that the new South Belles government 139 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 3: they've shut down these beaches and will probably be considering 140 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: a series of measures that they could take to help 141 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 3: with these types of incidents. When we hear about things 142 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 3: like culling, increased tracking and shark NEETs. What of those 143 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: solutions do you think are the most responsible steps to take. 144 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: I think in the short term, once the beach is reopened, 145 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: I think the state government should increase its drone surveillance. 146 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: There's some practical challenges with drones, but they're a very 147 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: important and relevant tool for identifying sharks and providing an 148 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: information back to surf life savers on the beach. There 149 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: is no one hundred percent way to eliminate shark bites altogether, 150 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: but we can reduce the risk. 151 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: And on the point of shark nets, there's been a 152 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: lot of discussion over the last year about trials of 153 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: removing them in places, or you know, potentially expanding them. 154 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: What's your take on shark nets. 155 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: I think the long term approach is that we do 156 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: need to transition away from lethal methods to more non 157 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: lethal methods. But these sorts of events obviously do not 158 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: hasten that transition. So we need to stop looking at 159 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: shark nets as a binary choice. Shark nets in, shark 160 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: nets out. We need to be more nuanced and look 161 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: for that longer term transition and bring the beach communities 162 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: along with that transition. 163 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: Now, before we finish, I was wondering if there's anything 164 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: about sharks that you want our listeners to know, or 165 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: maybe a myth that you'd like to dispel. 166 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: Look something that's I've always asked about, is that we 167 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: think we're pretty cool on top of the food chain 168 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: because we've got five sensors. Sharks have eight, so they 169 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: have had four hundred and fifty million years of evolution 170 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: to work out how they set the environment, so they 171 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: probably think we're pretty primitive with just our five senses. 172 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: They can detect magnetic fields, so some shark species can 173 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: migrate large distances based on detecting magnetic fields in the Earth. 174 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: They can detect electric pulses in the water, and that 175 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: means electric deterrence can be an effective personal deterrent tool. 176 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: And like other fish, they can also sense vibrations in 177 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the water to their sensory system as well, so they 178 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: get by with eight sensors. 179 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: That is amazing. Well, Daryl, thank you so much for 180 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 3: your time today and thanks for joining the Daily ODS. 181 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: Thank you such a fascinating chat. Thank you so much 182 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: to doctor Daryl McPhee for doing that interview with us. 183 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: I imagine he's very busy at the moment with the 184 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: media asking for all of the shark experts to explain 185 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: to us what is going on, so we really appreciate 186 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: his time and thank you so much for listening to 187 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: this episode of The Daily os. We'll be back this 188 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then, have a 189 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: good day and stay safe. 190 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 191 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: Bunjelung Kalkatin woman from Gadighl country. 192 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 193 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 194 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. 195 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 196 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: both past and present.