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Speaker 1: When you make yourself a slice of toast in the morning,

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Speaker 1: what is your go to spread? Do you have a

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Speaker 1: tub of margarine that you routinely go to or do

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Speaker 1: you pay a little bit extra and buy the cholesterol

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Speaker 1: lowering margarines? Or are you someone for who it is

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Speaker 1: butter all the way? On today's episode of the Nutrition

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Speaker 1: Couch Podcast, Leanne and I debate one of the big

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Speaker 1: nutrition questions. Is it butter or should it be margarine?

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Speaker 2: You might be a little bit surprised with what we

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Speaker 2: have to say. Hi, I'm Susie BURROW'MI Liam Wood.

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Speaker 1: And each week we bring you the Nutrition Couch Podcast,

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Speaker 1: a bi weekly chat on everything that is hot in

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Speaker 1: the world of nutrition, as well as popular spreads. Today

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Speaker 1: we're going to have a look at the latest research

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Speaker 1: on diet and breast cancer and Leanne has a really

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Speaker 1: interesting listener question that's come through all about our caffeine

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Speaker 1: and coffee intake and the effect on calcium absorption. But

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Speaker 1: before we get going today, Leanne, I think we can

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Speaker 1: share with our listeners we've got a few exciting little

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Speaker 1: project coming up. Of course, we toured recently this year

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Speaker 1: the Eastern States and got to meet a lot of

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Speaker 1: our listeners and there was a lot of interest in that,

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Speaker 1: and we are currently about to finalize our Nutrition Couch

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Speaker 1: podcast product guide, which will have an in depth look

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Speaker 1: at some of our supermarket favorites. And indeed we do

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Speaker 1: cover that on our weekly episode when we pick different

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Speaker 1: supermarket products and go through it, but this is slightly

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Speaker 1: different because we're really going through different areas of the

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Speaker 1: supermarket and making our pick. So that will be available

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Speaker 1: we're thrilled to share in a couple of weeks. But

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Speaker 1: we're also planning a little bit of a summer nutrition

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Speaker 1: book as well, aren't we.

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Speaker 3: A little sort of twenty twenty three summer reset. So

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Speaker 3: it's not a diet, it's not a detox, it's not

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Speaker 3: a shred, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not a full week challenge.

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Speaker 3: It's just a little bit of a reset for those

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Speaker 3: of us who have strayed from good habits, have become

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Speaker 3: a little bit overwhelmed with the silly season and the

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Speaker 3: holiday period, and who was just not feeling like their

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Speaker 3: best selves at the moment. So our goal is to

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Speaker 3: reset your healthy habits, give you more energy, help you

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Speaker 3: fuel your body a little bit better, and focus on

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Speaker 3: a couple of good key habits that we know can

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Speaker 3: make the world of different. So it's a sort of

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Speaker 3: a summer reset. We don't want you to think of

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Speaker 3: it like a restrictive or like a time frame dependent thing.

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Speaker 3: It'll be a full week guide very likely, but we

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Speaker 3: want you to continue on with it. Well after the

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Speaker 3: four weeks.

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Speaker 1: Is finished and we're just currently debating titles, we're going

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Speaker 1: to put it to instead to see what everyone thinks

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Speaker 1: the title should be. So watch this space that will

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Speaker 1: be coming very soon. All right, Leanne, Well, this is

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Speaker 1: actually a topic that I'm surprised we haven't covered in

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Speaker 1: almost eighteen months of Potty Chicha episodes we've had because

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Speaker 1: you know, there's questions that come up in the world

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Speaker 1: of nutrition all the time. There's the ones on eggs.

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Speaker 1: You know, eggs high in cholesterol and his fruit got

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Speaker 1: too much sugar and skim milk got more sugar than

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Speaker 1: full cream. But we haven't tackled butter or margarine. Now,

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Speaker 1: when I studied dietetics in the mid nineteen nineties, it

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Speaker 1: was margarine all the way. The cholesterol lowering margarines had

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Speaker 1: sort of just hit the market in Australia and they

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Speaker 1: were big. We were certainly told that vegetable oil was

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Speaker 1: a much better option than saturated fat based products that

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Speaker 1: were butter. So certainly margarine was big, as it had

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Speaker 1: been sort of right through the seventies and eighties in Australia.

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Speaker 1: So when I said this to you, when you brought

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Speaker 1: it up, we had slightly different opinions on it, which

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a surprise because usually we're pretty

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Speaker 1: in agreeance on most things. So I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's always a good chat to have. And I've got

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Speaker 1: some clients who are so deeply dedicated to their butter

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Speaker 1: they literally measure it out until me they're having eight grams.

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Speaker 1: So just in I might start off with a little

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Speaker 1: bit of context and then you can share what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts are on it. So in the diet, when we're

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Speaker 1: consuming different types of fat, there are poly unsaturated fats,

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Speaker 1: mono unsaturated fats, and saturated fats, and so fats are

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Speaker 1: generally a mix of those different types. So for example,

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Speaker 1: when you have some avocado or some olive oil, you

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Speaker 1: will actually get some saturated fat and then predominantly mono

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Speaker 1: unsaturated fat, which is why we call it a good fat.

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Speaker 1: But there is also some saturated fat in there. Those

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Speaker 1: foods are a mix. In the case of animal foods,

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Speaker 1: it's predominantly saturated fat, and we know that that doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a huge functional role in the body, whereas the

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Speaker 1: poly and mono unsaturated fats are sort of slightly healthier

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Speaker 1: fats and better for us and if anything, neutral when

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Speaker 1: it comes to bloodcholesterol and heart disease risk a little

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Speaker 1: bit different. In the case of saturated fat, we don't

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Speaker 1: need a lot of it, and it can in some

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Speaker 1: people increase saturated fat and inflammation in the body. And

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Speaker 1: Australians get plenty of saturated fat, and they get plenty

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Speaker 1: because we love our fast food and we love our

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Speaker 1: processed snack foods, which have a heavy palm oil base

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Speaker 1: which tends to be highly saturated, and of course we

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Speaker 1: also love cheese and we love dairy, so it's not

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Speaker 1: a problem getting saturated fat in our diets.

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Speaker 2: We tend to get a lot.

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Speaker 1: So when you spread some butter, if you spread sort

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Speaker 1: of a tea spoon of butter, you're getting sort of

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Speaker 1: at least four grams of saturated fat and you probably

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Speaker 1: only need max. Twenty maybe thirty a day. You really

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Speaker 1: don't need it, so it doesn't have a huge functional role.

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Speaker 1: So when I'm giving recommendations on spreads myself, I'm a

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Speaker 1: bit like, well, the less of any spread really, because

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Speaker 1: if I'm modeling a diet, I want my clients to

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Speaker 1: get their good fats from foods like their nuts and

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Speaker 1: the extravagin olive oil and avocado. You know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'd rather have an egg on toast. You probably don't

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Speaker 1: really need much spread. But if I'm cooking and baking,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely use butter. I wouldn't use a margarine for that,

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Speaker 1: but I think it. You know, it's different strokes for

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Speaker 1: different folks because you had a slightly different sort of

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Speaker 1: opinion on margarine, which I think is good to discuss,

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Speaker 1: you know, just to get some different perspectives about where

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Speaker 1: it fits in the diet.

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Speaker 2: So what do you have at home? What do you use?

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Speaker 2: I don't use a lot.

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Speaker 3: I sort of have a bit of an olive oil spread,

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Speaker 3: or sometimes I use a nant alexis sort of non

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Speaker 3: dairy based one for no other reason that I just

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Speaker 3: sort of like it and it spreads quite well. I'm

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Speaker 3: just I'm not a butter fan because it's hard to spread,

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Speaker 3: Like I just I don't like making holes in my

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Speaker 3: bread if I'm going to spread it. If I'm being honest,

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Speaker 3: I just like the spreadableness of it. So I don't

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Speaker 3: use a lot like I reckon, I would use some

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Speaker 3: sort of butter slash mark slash spread once every two

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Speaker 3: to three weeks, like I'm really not.

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Speaker 2: I don't need a lot.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a sandwich kind of person. If I'm having toast,

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Speaker 3: I'd much rather put avocado or tahini or recorda or

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Speaker 3: something like that on it instead. I don't really use

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Speaker 3: butter much, and I'm not a big baker either, and

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Speaker 3: so I don't think we necessarily have a difference of opinions.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's just important to.

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Speaker 3: Sort of bring up the whole margarine debate because, very

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Speaker 3: much like you, when I went through university was one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent margarine. The cholesterol lowering margarines were quite popular,

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Speaker 3: quite trendy. It was absolutely what we were recommending for

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Speaker 3: clients in the clinics and that sort of thing. But

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Speaker 3: I think where a lot of the misconception comes from

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Speaker 3: with margarine is that a lot of people think that

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Speaker 3: it's that hydrogenated trans fat, and indeed, when margarine first

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Speaker 3: came about prior to the nineteen nineties. It absolutely was.

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Speaker 3: So margarine was predominantly, you know, eighty ninety percent hydrogenated

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Speaker 3: trans fat. They were making, They were you know, officially

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Speaker 3: creating it to be something that was really solid at

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Speaker 3: room temperature. So it wasn't a good type of fact

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Speaker 3: for us at all. It was highly refined and it

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Speaker 3: was not you know, it's supposed to be a healthier

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Speaker 3: alternative to butter, but I think sitting here and looking

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Speaker 3: back then, we can really say that it probably wasn't

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Speaker 3: really that healthier alternative because it had really high levels

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Speaker 3: of trans fats in it. But margarine these days isn't

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Speaker 3: actually really high in trans fat, especially in Australia and

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Speaker 3: the UK. Now, I do believe that American it is

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Speaker 3: made differently, so I probably would never recommend something like

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Speaker 3: margarine in America. But most of what is available in

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Speaker 3: terms of margarines and spreads in austral in the UK

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Speaker 3: are made up of some sort of vegetable oil, olive oil,

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Speaker 3: or some sort of rape seed oil. So these oils

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Speaker 3: are I would say, largely better for you than things

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Speaker 3: like the saturated fat and butter, and they actually contain

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a better sort of mix of

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Speaker 3: unsaturated spreads. So depending on what the oil or the

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Speaker 3: spread is made up of, it will depend on sort

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Speaker 3: of whether it's more of a polly or a money

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Speaker 3: or you know, if it's got a bit of saturated

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Speaker 3: fat in there as well. So I'm like you, I

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Speaker 3: have the belief that you should only be using a

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Speaker 3: really small amount, But I really do think that it

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Speaker 3: comes down to a taste preference. If you are only

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Speaker 3: using a small amount, if you're a butter person, absolutely

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Speaker 3: do it, but you need to be making sure you're

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Speaker 3: having small amounts. If you're baking regularly for the kids

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Speaker 3: every single week, if you're spreading it onto toest most mornings,

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Speaker 3: I really think that perhaps you either need to consider

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Speaker 3: it an alternative or you just need to look at

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Speaker 3: your general overall health in your diet. If you're someone

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Speaker 3: who likes a lot of meat, likes things you know,

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Speaker 3: your family has sausages and chops and steak, you're already

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Speaker 3: getting in a lot of saturated fat in your diet.

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Speaker 3: Plus take away once or twice a week, you like

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Speaker 3: a bit of bacon with your eggs on the weekend,

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Speaker 3: that would be where I'd be really careful and cautious

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Speaker 3: of the type of spread that you choose all the

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Speaker 3: alternative like something like avocado or tahini or a nut

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Speaker 3: butter instead. But if you're following a largely vegetarian type diet,

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Speaker 3: you only have meat, you know, maybe once a week

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Speaker 3: if that, you have a lot of good quality healthy fats, nuts, salmon,

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Speaker 3: use a lot of extraversion olive oil. I really don't

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to sort of debate what type would

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Speaker 3: be best for you, Like I really think choose, choose

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Speaker 3: the one that you like, Choose the one that you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: But I think there is a little bit of miss

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Speaker 3: conception around the whole. You know, marjarine used to be

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Speaker 3: the best, butter was so bad then, you know, the

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Speaker 3: tables turn in terms of saturated fat, particularly within dairy

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Speaker 3: and things like butter probably about what five six seven

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Speaker 3: years ago now, And it was really like I remember

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Speaker 3: the cover of New York Times like fat is back, Baby,

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Speaker 3: and it was all like everyone was like, yeah, saturated

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Speaker 3: fat is good for us. But I think that messaging

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Speaker 3: got a bit mixed up, and a lot of what

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Speaker 3: we think about with dairy isn't that saturated fat as good.

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Speaker 3: It was really the messaging was saturated ft as neutral.

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Speaker 3: It's not as bad as what we thought in terms

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Speaker 3: of it being available in dairy, but it's actually not

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Speaker 3: good for our health either, And so for me with

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Speaker 3: my clients, I generally do recommend lower fat dairy, but

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Speaker 3: if they want to have full fat dairy, I'm happy

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Speaker 3: with it if they can cut down the rest of

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Speaker 3: the saturated fat in the bulk of their diet as well.

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Speaker 3: So I don't have a hard stance on butter or marge,

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Speaker 3: but I personally would use something that just spreads a

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Speaker 3: little bit better on the slight occasion that I do

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Speaker 3: have it.

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Speaker 1: I think that one of the issues in the margarine

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Speaker 1: slash butter section is they're quite misleading because there's quite

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Speaker 1: a few tubs that mask a is a butter spread

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Speaker 1: but when you take a closer look at the ingredient list,

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Speaker 1: they actually have a vegetable oil base with some butter.

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Speaker 1: There's actually only one fully one hundred percent butter that's spreadable.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the mainland one out of New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: whereas you know some of them like the lurpack, it's

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Speaker 1: actually vegetable oil with a little bit of butter, So

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Speaker 1: you have to be careful with that and really check.

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Speaker 1: And the same with things like the avocado spread or

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Speaker 1: the olive oil spread. When you actually look, the olive

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Speaker 1: oil or the avocado are much lower on the ingredient list,

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Speaker 1: so it's not healthier necessarily. So I'm with you, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want a little bit for your vegemite toast,

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Speaker 1: I think one of the better ones is like the

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Speaker 1: Nutterleggs light.

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Speaker 2: But I am absolutely like you.

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Speaker 1: There's very few reasons I think you need it, because

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Speaker 1: if you're having toast, well, I'm probably going to want

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Speaker 1: you to have it with protein. So whether it's eggs, well,

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Speaker 1: you don't need a spread off having eggs because the

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Speaker 1: eggs are running, or if you're having nutspread, you don't

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Speaker 1: need butter as well, you know, So I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity to cut right back on it.

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Speaker 1: The same if you're making a wrap or use avocado thin,

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Speaker 1: you know, or some tahini or some hommus, they're going

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Speaker 1: to be much much better tazeki, you know, they're much

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Speaker 1: better choices to sort of get that baseline out of

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Speaker 1: the overall diet and yeah, I hear what you're saying

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Speaker 1: about the butter in terms of spreadable and as I

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Speaker 1: said that, the mainland one is actually the only one

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Speaker 1: that is one hundred percent butter. But I think for

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Speaker 1: both of us, the take home message is the less

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Speaker 1: of both the better, because nutritionally we don't need either,

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Speaker 1: and it's more if it's playing a functional role, you know,

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Speaker 1: you want to go for as little as possible or

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Speaker 1: substituted in. But I think another thing we both wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about was the cholesterol lowering margarine. So they're

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Speaker 1: still on the market.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: A cholesterol margarine has a plant sterol in it. It's

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Speaker 1: a naturally occurring compound that's been concentrated because there is

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Speaker 1: good evidence to show that two to three gramds of

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Speaker 1: plant sterols per day can block basically pops into the

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Speaker 1: spot of cholesterol in the body and helps to reduce

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Speaker 1: cholesterol levels I want to say by about ten percent,

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Speaker 1: so a clinically significant level. Now, the issue with those

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Speaker 1: is that adding plant sterols into margarine processed food and

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Speaker 1: having to use you know, two three tablespoons a day,

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Speaker 1: to me, is ridiculous because you're basically encouraging people to

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Speaker 1: add more vegetable oil into their diet to get this bonus.

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Speaker 1: When you can get plant sterols and some milks in

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Speaker 1: some cholesterolowering Oh it's Carmen's due, and wheatbeaks have got

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Speaker 1: a cholesterol owering cereal. I think also Callogg's one of

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Speaker 1: their all brands, it's cholesterol lowering or Guardian. So there's

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Speaker 1: much better foods to get plant sterols from than proactively

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Speaker 1: and I think that was one of the names of

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Speaker 1: the margarine. Actually, yeah, them pro actively adding all that

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Speaker 1: vegetable oil back into the diet. So two to three

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Speaker 1: tablespoons of margarine per day, even in a reduced fat variety,

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous to be doing that. So I certainly do

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Speaker 1: not recommend that to anyone. And if I recommend plant sterols,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not via margarine. I'm doing it via the

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Speaker 1: milk or the cereals that you can find. And I

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Speaker 1: think there'll be a growing range of foods, as there

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Speaker 1: is in Europe that also contain those concentrated amounts of

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Speaker 1: plant sterols. You certainly don't need to be adding margarine

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Speaker 1: and eating more bread to get those cholesterol lowerings. You

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Speaker 1: know you're just going to be as good with ten

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Speaker 1: walnuts a day and losing a bit of weight and

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Speaker 1: some more oily fish, let alone adding sort of margarine

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Speaker 1: back in. So we both, you know, feel quite strongly

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Speaker 1: about that that they're certainly not necessary. And if you

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Speaker 1: must get a margarine, I'd get a light one and

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Speaker 1: use it very sparingly, and the same if your preference

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Speaker 1: is to spend more wire and get the butter, because

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, the butters are expensive. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think two hundred and fifty grams of unsolded butter is

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Speaker 1: over three bucks. Now, you know it's not insignificant in

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Speaker 1: the household spend. So yeah, the more you can substitute

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Speaker 1: it for things like a bit of homus or tazeki

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Speaker 1: thin or one hundred percent nuts spread, or skip it

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Speaker 1: all together, a bit of vegimite and an egg on toast,

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Speaker 1: you got to be much better for the entire family

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Speaker 1: than thinking that you need it or there's some better

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Speaker 1: fit to adding that into the diet.

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Speaker 3: Couldn't agree more. And I'll just make the final point

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Speaker 3: with those cholesterol lowering margarines, So if you're not having

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Speaker 3: that two to three tablespoons a day, you're not getting

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Speaker 3: in the clinical effects. So a lot of people will,

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Speaker 3: you know, they buy those Marjories and they're not too

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Speaker 3: BITI that there's six seven eight bucks a tub and

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Speaker 3: just using like half a teaspoon off that you will

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Speaker 3: not get the full benefits unless you're using a couple

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Speaker 3: of tablespoons every day, which for most people with high cholesterol,

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Speaker 3: let's be honest, they probably should be losing weight as well,

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Speaker 3: so it's really not something that's going to be conducive

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Speaker 3: to a healthy diet. So I'm like you, Susie, I

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Speaker 3: never really ever recommend them. I would much do something

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Speaker 3: like the cholesterol lowering rootbigs or the milk if they

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Speaker 3: have like regular coffee drinks as well, Which brings us

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Speaker 3: nicely into the last sort of listener question this week.

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Speaker 3: But before we do that, we're going to jump into

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Speaker 3: a little chit chat on diet and breast cancer because

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Speaker 3: this was sort of a great little media article that

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Speaker 3: came through. There's a little bit of sort of new

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Speaker 3: research and evidence around breast cancer and diet, which we

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Speaker 3: know it's a very large cancer in Australia and you

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Speaker 3: know also around the rest of the world. Whenever we

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Speaker 3: see I guess, new research and data with breast cancer,

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Speaker 3: particularly related to nutrients and food, it always sort of,

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Speaker 3: you know, sparks our interests as dietitians. So the study

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Speaker 3: that we're looking at is essentially the Nutrient White Association

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Speaker 3: Study of ninety two Food and Nutrients and their Risk

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Speaker 3: on breast cancer. So this is a fairly recent study

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty and it was published in the journal of

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Speaker 3: the journal was BMC and published under the Breast Cancer

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Speaker 3: Research sort of arm of that. So I will let

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Speaker 3: you talk our listeners through this study today, Suthi, because

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Speaker 3: I think you're a little bit more across it than

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Speaker 3: I am.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to still lead in because it is one

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Speaker 1: of the most common cancers in females, second after skin cancer,

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Speaker 1: and close to twenty thousand women a year in Australia

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Speaker 1: are diagnosed with breast cancer, and because the survival rates

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Speaker 1: are so much better than they once were. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got about eighty thousand women living and managing ongoing

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Speaker 1: symptoms or recovering from breast cancer. And of course some

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Speaker 1: of the latest drugs like tomoxyphen that people will be

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Speaker 1: on for many years can have a profound effect on

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Speaker 1: appetite and weight. So a lot of women in my

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Speaker 1: experience going through breast cancer treatment really do struggle with

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Speaker 1: weight control. So I thought it was a really good topic.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that a lot of our listeners are females. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure if it's not someone that you know, there's probably

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Speaker 1: had breast cancer or it will pop up.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, because it's I.

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Speaker 1: Think one in seven. I have a look at that

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Speaker 1: stat in a second when Land's talking. But you know,

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Speaker 1: a really high proportion of women are exposed to that

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Speaker 1: hormonal cancer or can be hormonal cancer and lifestyle. You know,

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Speaker 1: factors are related. So when we have a look at

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Speaker 1: the overall data or a summary data, one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest risk factors from a dietary perspective is alcohol intake.

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Speaker 1: Now I would say anecdotally weight is also associated. I

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Speaker 1: think we know that from the evidence that eight and

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Speaker 1: obesity is a risk for many different types of cancer.

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Speaker 1: But one of the specific areas that we do know

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Speaker 1: is that in this pool of fifty three studies, women

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Speaker 1: who had two to three alcoholic drinks per day had

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Speaker 1: a twenty percent higher risk of developing breast cancer overall.

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Speaker 1: So if you were targeting one specific food types. Certainly

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Speaker 1: alcohol can be significantly increase risk because there are different

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Speaker 1: types of cancer and some of them are estrogen receptor

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Speaker 1: related cancers. Certainly, people who have a particularly high vegetable

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Speaker 1: intake have a lower risk of the estrogen receptor negative

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Speaker 1: breast cancer. So again coming back to that Mediterranean style approach,

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Speaker 1: really loading up on the vegetable is highly protective against

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Speaker 1: specifically some types of cancer. And then when we have

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Speaker 1: a look at overall risk and managing and trying to

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Speaker 1: prevent recurrence and supporting longevity when living or surviving breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: it does come backly into that anti inflammatory diet Mediterranean

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Speaker 1: style approach. And another area specifically related is plant based

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Speaker 1: diets have a significantly reduced risk of developing breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: So it's about different sort of picking out different parts,

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Speaker 1: but there's some of the key dietary determinants. So again

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Speaker 1: it comes back to more plant based foods, less process

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Speaker 1: foods in general, and certainly alcohol is an independent risk

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Speaker 1: factor with the diet in general. So for people who

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Speaker 1: have sort of got that wine habit that's crept in,

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Speaker 1: certainly it's something to look at, particularly if there's a

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Speaker 1: family history of breast cancer, or you are aware that

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Speaker 1: you may have one of those genes as we learn

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Speaker 1: more about the gene and genetic risk. But what I

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Speaker 1: will also say is that in my work, I've never

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Speaker 1: worked directly with people who are managing cancer and particularly

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Speaker 1: when they're going through treatment. But I have seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of women who have had breast cancer and are

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Speaker 1: then looking at the subsequent weight gain many years later

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Speaker 1: and trying to keep it at bay. So this is anecdotally,

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Speaker 1: but this is just my experience in working with these

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Speaker 1: women who are trying to support their health long term.

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Speaker 1: They will often come out of the treatment significantly higher

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Speaker 1: weights than when they went in because it can make

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Speaker 1: them feel quite nauseous. It's very difficult to eat well

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Speaker 1: when you're going through terrible treatment. They retain a lot

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Speaker 1: of fluid, they have a general puffiness, and they're certainly

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Speaker 1: in many cases because eat sometimes throughout the treatment will

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Speaker 1: make you feel better and support reduce that nausea that

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Speaker 1: you can experience. So the first sort of part working

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Speaker 1: on is just trying to get their energy back. There

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Speaker 1: is often an ongoing fatigue that is associated for several

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Speaker 1: years after breast cancer treatment. Where you feel extremely tired,

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Speaker 1: want to sleep a lot. You know, it really does

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Speaker 1: take quite a lot of time to get what we

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Speaker 1: would describe as your energy back. So it's about balancing

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Speaker 1: the nutrient requirements with your energy levels and energy demands.

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Speaker 1: But certainly, you know there is evidence and suggestion that

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Speaker 1: actively working to keep weight under control and reduce excess

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Speaker 1: weight is a key part of that. And really shifting

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Speaker 1: the diet to have a much higher proportion of plants,

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Speaker 1: so really paying a lot more attention to how often

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Speaker 1: you're having red meat, focusing on those thirty different plant

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Speaker 1: sources each week, you know, really considering a plant based

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Speaker 1: diet a lot more of the time, and really being

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Speaker 1: quite strict on things like your sugar, your process foods,

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Speaker 1: and your alcohol. One with the goal of helping reduce

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Speaker 1: that risk in general of malignancy occurring again. But second,

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Speaker 1: trying to reduce weight, because we know that when there

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Speaker 1: are weight issues there and if insulin's working over time,

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Speaker 1: it is a growth hormone. So keeping inchulin under control

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Speaker 1: and eating according to those principles, where you're perhaps having

435
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: longer periods of time in between meals, you're reducing the

436
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: carbohydrate load of the diet. You may also introduce some

437
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: regular fasting days to give that metabolic benefit, because again

438
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 1: when we look at some of the fasting benefits, having

439
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: lower calorie days is significantly shown to help improve metabolic function,

440
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,479
Speaker 1: improve immune system function, and that's above and beyond weight loss.

441
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: So certainly clinically, these are some of the areas that

442
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: you can actively intervene if that you have had that

443
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: treatment and really trying long term to promote longevity and

444
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 1: reduce risk of cancer recurrence.

445
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 2: They would all be areas.

446
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: That I would be encouraging people to give a go

447
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: because there is good evidence to show there's numerous cellular

448
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: and hormonal benefits from incorporating some regular loclorie days as

449
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: part of that active management. Once you get kind of

450
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: your energy back after the treatment, that's not the time

451
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: to be sort of dieting strictly. It certainly once you're

452
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: on that path where you're feeling a bit normally getting

453
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: fully recovered, that we would try some of those dietary interventions.

454
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

455
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 3: I really like the study because I think it highlights

456
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 3: the need just for general well balanced health and the

457
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 3: two things is study really identify that the two key

458
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: besides alcohol like you mentioned two have the key dietary

459
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: factors that actually influence things like breast cancer and risk

460
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 3: long term with fiber intake. And also it said fruit,

461
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 3: but specifically it's said apples, So it's sort of like

462
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 3: that saying, what is it an apple a day keeps

463
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 3: the doctor away. So apples were shown for really protective

464
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 3: against breast cancer risk and overall fiber intake. So just

465
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: making sure you're not doing anything that's silly or overly restrictive,

466
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 3: like a chithogenic diet or doing anything that's super low carbohydrate,

467
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: because although things like fast and reducing carbs down might

468
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: be ideal for weight loss, high fiber intake was positively

469
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 3: associated with reducing breast cancer. So we definitely don't want

470
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: to cut out all calms, but we have to be

471
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 3: smart with the types of carbohydrates that we're choosing and

472
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 3: really aiming for thirty grams if not higher in terms

473
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: of our general fiber intakes each day, and that's a

474
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 3: general recommendation. You know, people are very different. If you've

475
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: got a sense it about a bit of ibs, or

476
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 3: you've got some sort of you know, stricturing type disease

477
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: or issues with your bower, you might need significantly less fiber,

478
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 3: but for the large majority most people that they sort

479
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 3: of studied and look back on really did much better.

480
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 3: And how to reduce risk with a higher fiber more

481
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: plant based index. So just I guess the final summary

482
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 3: is just a well balanced, healthy diet and if you're

483
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 3: struggling to understand how to increase the amount of fiber

484
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 3: in your diet or what you know, more plant based

485
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 3: eating looks like, definitely link in one on one with

486
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: a dietician to really give you some of that personalized

487
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 3: advice for that.

488
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: And I think just specifically looking at the fiber, I

489
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: think someone as we assume the am we're having enough

490
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: dietary fiber. So the recommendation for dietary fiber is thirty

491
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: grams per day, so a guarantee if you're not having

492
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: a whole grain cereal in the morning for breakfast, so

493
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: if you're reaching for a slice of plane of toast

494
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: or a wrap in the morning, and then you might

495
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: have salad at lunchtime, which can be a little bit

496
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: lower in dietary fiber than vegetables, and then in the

497
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: afternoon you might grab I don't know, berries, you might

498
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: grab some crackers, some cheese, and then at dinner time

499
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: you might have one or two veggies. Your fiber will

500
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: be about half what you need it to be. So

501
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: to get that thirty grams of dietary fiber a day,

502
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: you really need to have a couple of serfs of

503
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: whole grain bread or whole grain cereal to start the day.

504
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: You need two to three cups of salad at lunch,

505
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: and then another two to three cups at veggies at

506
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: dinner to get anywhere near thirty grams of dietary fiber

507
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: per day. And I think something we've talked about on

508
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: the potty before lean is that you sometimes see these

509
00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: new higher fiber kind of wraps and snack bars, but

510
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: the kind of fiber they have in them is that

511
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: kind of we've talked about this before, more processed dietary fiber.

512
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 3: It's always refined fiber.

513
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's certainly not as good as the

514
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: vegetable fiber that we get, the fiber we get from

515
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: the skin on fresh fruits and vegetables, which is particularly

516
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: relevant coming into stone fruit season in the apples as well,

517
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: not by chance, because that's where a lot of those

518
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: antioxidant phener compounds are which are the anti cancer molecules,

519
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: and then the whole grain breads and cereals, which people

520
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: sometimes on a gluten free diet may have eliminated or

521
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: they might be choosing raps instead because they're perceived as healthier.

522
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: And so if you haven't listened to our wrap episode,

523
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: it's worth listening to because whilst on the label they

524
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: say high in fiber, it's not the same kind of

525
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: natural fiber that you're getting from grain, seeds, nuts, And

526
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: if you're actively keeping it on your carbohydrat intake and

527
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: or buying a lot of food away from the home,

528
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: I guarantee you at be getting anywhere near that source

529
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: of dietary fiber. So if you are listening and you

530
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: know you've got a particular breast cancer risk or you

531
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: have had breast cancer, just really have a quick look

532
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: at actually how much real quality dietary fiber you're including.

533
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: And of course we haven't mentioned the super veggies when

534
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: it comes to cancer risk, which we probably should have

535
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: specifically mentioned because in the case of breast cancer prostate cancer,

536
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: the best veggies or the strongest veggie links are the

537
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: cruciferous group of vegetables, so that's our cauliflower, are broccoli,

538
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: Brussels sprouts, kale. These have these very powerful anti cancer

539
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: molecules in them and they are specifically linked actually just

540
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: thinking about it, to a reduction in specific types of cancer,

541
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: including breast cancer. So you would want to be including

542
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: at least one serve, if not two, of broccoli cauliflower

543
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: each day, particularly if this is you and you're at

544
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: risk or you're recovering and want to reduce your risk

545
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: long term of recurrence. So those super green veggies are

546
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: known as that for a reason, and they have these

547
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: very very powerful anti cancer molecules in there, and they're

548
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: also very very high in dietary but certainly foods that

549
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: you would want to really be targeting in the diet

550
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,959
Speaker 1: to help reduce cancer risk. All right, Well, that then

551
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: leads us on to a topic much more palatable than

552
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: a coffee, because we all like a bit of coffee

553
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: gets us through our day, might be the highlight of

554
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: the day for some of us. But your question, i

555
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 1: think came from a client of yours calcium and what

556
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: do you do to help optimize calcium absorption If you're

557
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: a bit of a coffee fan, so the question was.

558
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 3: Really around does coffee reduce calcium absorption? So my client

559
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: was sort of she basically said to me, Okay, I

560
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: have a couple of like she has a milky coffee.

561
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: She said, can I count that in my caffeine intake?

562
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: And does coffee actually reduce my calcium absorption and make

563
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: my bones weaker over time? So she was following she's

564
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: not anymore, but following some pages that we're giving out

565
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: some non evidence based nutrition advice or should I say,

566
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 3: some influences online, and she was really worried that she

567
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: should stop drinking coffee altogether because her bones would come,

568
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: you know, become brittle and lead to sort of osteopora.

569
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: So let's set the record straight once and for all.

570
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: So, if you're adding milk to.

571
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: Your coffee, the calcium in that counts.

572
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: Okay.

573
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: So if you're having a standard latte from the Garista Daily,

574
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: that amount of calcium in your milk will count. Of course,

575
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: if the milk is either cow's milk or soy milk,

576
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 3: you're getting that calcium in. If it's more of a

577
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: plant based milk, like an almond milk or an oat milk,

578
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: you probably want to check the brand that your brist

579
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: is actually using, because we can't just guarantee that it's

580
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 3: actually fortified with calcium. So if you're adding some sort

581
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: of milk that has got calcium in it, that will

582
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: count in terms of your coffee. Now, where the caffeine

583
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 3: and calcium are link comes from, So caffeine in coffee

584
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: or caffeine in general and anything can actually slightly decrease

585
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: calcium absorption in your body. So the research is actually

586
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: shown that although there is this link there, it is

587
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: very very minimal, and in fact, the amount of calcium

588
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 3: that's actually lost through having something like a caffeinated drink

589
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: is so small that you can totally offset this by

590
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: simply adding. The research is shown as little as one

591
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 3: tablespoon of milk to each cup of coffee that you drink.

592
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 3: So essentially, if you were having black coffee and that

593
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: was all you were drinking, and you were drinking multiple

594
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 3: cups per day, I'm talking upwards of three or four

595
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 3: cups per day, you probably will be losing a little

596
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: bit of the calcium absorption from the caffeine. But if

597
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 3: you just added as little as a tablespoon of milk

598
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: into each cup of black coffee, you could offset that

599
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 3: decrease in calcium absorption, So it's not an issue unless

600
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 3: you're drinking multiple, multiple cups of black coffee every single day.

601
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: That would be my only concern with that. And if

602
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: you do have a concern, I would recommend that you

603
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: went and got something like a dexa scan, which essentially

604
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: is a scan of.

605
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: Your whole body.

606
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: It shows you what your bone mineral density is, your

607
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: muscle mass, and also your fat mass as well. It

608
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: gives you a really good indication of a if you

609
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 3: have osteoporosis or if you're setting yourself up for that

610
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: risk longer term, because you have a low level of

611
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: bone miniud density. So nobody really needs be concerned that

612
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: the coffee is leaching calcium from their bones unless you're

613
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: drinking it black, and unless you're having multiple multiple cups

614
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 3: of it per day and you're having no other real

615
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: you know, calcium sources in your diet. So I think

616
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: for a lot of us, we're having you know, I hope,

617
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: well balanced nutrition. Most of us are adding milk to

618
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: our coffee because, let's be honest, honestly taste better like that.

619
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: And I'd only really be worried if you're having upwards

620
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: of three or four cups of coffee a day and

621
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: it's totally black.

622
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: Great advice because there's plenty of coffee drinkers and plenty

623
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: of people who need more calcium.

624
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: All right, Lene, Well, that.

625
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: Brings us to the end of the Nutrition Couch for

626
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: another Sunday. If you haven't done so, please subscribe and

627
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: feel free to leave us a review or post some

628
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: picks of you listening to us. We love to see

629
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: that and we love to repost it. We will see

630
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: you Wednesday morning for our regular product review segment, and

631
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: we of course have more information on our website about

632
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: our products available, which is the nutritioncouch dot com.

633
00:29:52,400 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: Have a great week to the nostom partis