WEBVTT - Incarceration Nation with Carly Stanley 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.600 Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.920 I'm Laura and I'm joined by britt on the other side. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.520 I'm on the other side of the world, and yes, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.920 i am Brittany. Thank you for introducing me. Laura. You've 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:35.960 never done that before. I didn't. I don't really know 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:36.559 what to do with it. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.159 Okay, Well, last episode you made a big song and 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.440 dance about how I never do anything different, so I 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.680 thought i'd try something different. And now you're really thrown 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:45.360 So which one is it going to be, Babe? 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.680 Which one? Maybe try something different, but give me the 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.559 heads up. You're gonna try something different, but just like 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.440 bear with me, britt I'm going to try something No, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.680 that's cool. I'm Brittany. This is Laura. This is my 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.800 co host, Laura. This is Tuesday's episode. This is our big, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.760 meaty and in Laura's words, very very very special episode. Well. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:03.440 I was gonna try and avoid saying that it's a 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.280 special episode, but the truth is it really is a 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.400 special episode today. But before we get into the episode, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:09.640 I just want to. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.959 Make you all aware. I know a great number of 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.760 you have been listening to the Batch Uncut recaps and 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:16.440 this is our home run. Guys. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.759 We are down to finale week this week, and I'm 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.480 feeling good in Maloyan's I can't wait. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.720 Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa whoah, that's too much information. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.319 Brit It hasn't watched a single episode, so we can't 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:26.840 even We can't even talk to her about it. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.120 She doesn't care. She's left us. No, it's something. Look, 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:31.880 I will always care about the Bachelor. It was like 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.480 my foundation, Like I'm better than that now, BLA. I 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.400 don't need you, Bachelor, No I do, Please, I'll need you. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.880 I having followen along social media, I feel like there 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:44.840 are so many I mean, I get the recaps from 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.040 you guys, and I get so many social media recaps. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.880 I feel like I have covered all bases. I feel 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:51.880 like I know who's gonna win, which I obviously don't. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.440 I feel like I know all the tumultuous situations that 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.720 have happened. And I don't want anyone to think that 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.280 I've given up on my Bachelor family, because I absolutely 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.720 have not. Well, we have been saying this entire time. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.160 Matt and I have no more insight other than our 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.160 sparty senses as to who's gonna win, he's been saying, 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.920 Jay and I am just so ready for my girl 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.919 Holly to bring it on down to the winning town. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:14.560 I don't even know where else going with that, but 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:16.400 she's gonna get it. She's gonna make a home run. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.320 She's gonna get a man, and I can't wait for 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.040 Thursday Nights. But anyway, we've got a few things to 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:21.480 cover off before we get to Bachelor. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.440 What's been happening in your life this week, Laura, surely 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:26.960 you have some exciting updates for me. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.880 Oh yeah, look, we're heading into week what never ending 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.560 infinity of Lockdown in Sydney. I had some pretty disappointing 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.440 news actually, which if you are one of my very 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.840 close friends who listens to this podcast and you've been 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.280 invited to my wedding, I'm sorry that I'm telling the 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.640 podcast world before I sent you an email to let 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.359 you know, I'm like ninety nine point nine percent sure 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:48.880 that Matt and I are going to have to postpone 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.440 our wedding. Yeah, BRIT's finding out now for the first time, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:53.440 I really am. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:54.800 This is how it happens. This is how I got 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.760 my wedding invitation as well. Nothing's changed, It's literally how 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.959 I get all my information from Laura. I'm like, okay, cool. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.520 So we were holding, you know, waiting, We've baited breath 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.640 to see if you had to postpone the wedding or not, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.280 and it looks like you have to, does it. Well. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.680 Also, the thing is is if we didn't postpone, there'd 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.359 be a very good chance that you wouldn't be able 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:11.799 to come like at the moment, and I don't think 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.960 you guys are even aware of this, but like Britt 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.720 physically can't come home, Like there's no flights at the 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.880 moment for Britt to get back. She was actually supposed 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.280 to be arriving back in the country pretty much this 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.440 week and then going into two weeks quarantine. But we've 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.600 been spending like the last gosh like two months trying 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:27.480 to figure out a way to. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:27.880 Get her home. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.600 And unfortunately, for the next unforeseeable future, this is just 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.359 the situation that we're in and we're going to keep 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.720 on doing these zoom recordings. But yeah, a big thing 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.160 now is with Matt, like a big part of his family, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.440 his mum and all his brothers, they all live in Brisbane, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.800 and so we didn't want to have a wedding, or 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.600 we don't want to go ahead with a wedding unless 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.640 it's the sort of wedding that we want to have, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.119 you know. And it is really disappointing, but I kind 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.080 of I mean, I feel like so many people have 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.080 experienced their own COVID hardships, and I know that there 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.240 are so many people who listen to this podcast who 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.880 have had to postpone their weddings over the past. Yeah, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.880 and yeah, I just I mean, it freaking sucks, is 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:05.720 what it does. But like it's just a part of 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.840 the modern world that we live in. Unfortunately. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.280 Do you think that you will reschedule a date or 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:12.800 is it just not worth it for now? Is it 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.360 just like an indefinite pushback and you'll see what happens 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.560 to the new year. I don't know. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.800 I feel like the problem is is that because everybody's 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.520 in the same boat and everyone's weddings are getting postponed, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.800 it's a situation where you almost have to try and 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.240 figure out a date quickly because all the dates next 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.200 year and then the year after getting booked out. But 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.480 you know, one thing I think that we are lucky for, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.680 and I guess this is the thing that I've been 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.000 thinking about. Which has made me less sad about the 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:37.719 whole fact that we have to push the wedding out 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:39.840 is that I know a lot of people when they 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.800 get married, they're getting married because they think to themselves, Okay, well, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.760 once we're married, we're gonna start our life. We're gonna 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.400 have our kids, we're gonna, you know, do all the 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.120 big life milestones. And for us, we've kind of already 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:51.719 done that, Like we had the kids, we did everything 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.280 in reverse. So I know that we just we just 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.400 want to have a big, old, massive party. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.599 And so until we can have a party where everyone 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.880 can dare, everyone can embrace each other, no one has 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:03.960 to wear a mask. Yeah, until that can happen, I 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.640 think we're just gonna have to put on hold. So 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.839 I said, if you're someone who's invited to my wedding, 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.839 I promise you'll get an email with the real updates soon. Okay. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:12.960 Well that's also great because this would have been me 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.960 also RSVP to you saying I probably can't come now, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:17.640 even if you were holding it. So I'm glad we 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.360 stopped this information on air. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.320 Could you imagine, though, Could you imagine if I had 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.760 a wedding and you didn't come, like what. 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.440 Well, I actually from what's happening at the moment, I 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.599 don't think. No, I know I wouldn't have been I 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.280 know that the flights there are no flights for the 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.360 next like eight weeks. It's insane. It's is there's nothing 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.800 I'd have to swim back. So I actually would not 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.400 have made your wedding. So it's probably for the best, Laura, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.039 not to you. I only appreciate it because of you. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.559 I actually have something I want to ask you. Whilst 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.800 we're on the topic of weddings. This is something that 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.520 I don't know if you have seen, but it's circulated 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.440 online at the moment. Now, there was a couple in 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:56.360 America that had a wedding. They put out all their RSVPs. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.320 Everyone said they were coming. They put out one more 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.960 like last call out, this is one hundred percent the 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.720 last time. Are you sure you're coming to our wedding? 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.680 Everyone ticked yes. They had the wedding. On the day 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:15.039 of the wedding, their cousin who had children, the children 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.440 got sick. Now, on the wedding invitation, it was strictly 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.920 no children, so the children got sick. The babysitter couldn't 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.320 look after the kids anymore. I mean, you're also not 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.160 going to bring sick kids to a wedding anyway, So 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.640 the babysitter can't come. The kids are sick, the parents 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.680 physically can't go. They're like, we can't go, so they 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:35.680 don't go. One month later, they receive in the mail 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.680 an invoice. And the invoice was from the couple that 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.560 got married, and it was a legitimate business invoice, and 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.760 it had the topic wedding no show, pay for meal, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.000 the yeah, and the wedding yeah. And the invoice was 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.080 for two hundred and fifty dollars. They were invoicing them. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.680 They said, you RSVP that you were coming. You failed 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.040 to show your meal per head cost two hundred and 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.640 fifty dollars these bank details. Please also fill out the 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.839 reason why you did not attend. Now this has gone 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.040 bonkers online and I wanted to know what your thoughts 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.640 were on this, because when I first I mean like, 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.840 I actually don't know how I feel. I know deep 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:15.800 down how I feel, but when I first read it 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.440 and saw the invoice, I was like, how could you 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.000 send that? How could you get married and then start 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:22.800 to build people for your wedding, And then I had 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.280 a little part of me that was like, well, fuck, 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.800 it's two hundred and fifty dollars ahead. Someone said they 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.520 were coming, so you paid for the meal. Then they 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.960 didn't come. I was like, that's pretty shitty. And now 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.760 I'm a bit of a fens sitter. I still think 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.440 that you can't ask for the money. But I was 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.600 a bit like, I don't know. I want to know 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.120 what the world thinks good. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:39.800 I think this is good. I think we should be 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.280 doing this more. Look, I have a question. Did the 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.880 person just do a no show or like they obviously 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.920 didn't call or send a message to the couple who 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:48.960 was getting married and say, hey, my kids are sick. 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.480 We're not coming like that. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.560 It seems like a very fatal part of the conversation 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:54.560 is missing here. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.960 That's a good question. I actually don't I'm going to assume. 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.760 I don't know. I'm going to assume, because surely they 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.440 wouldn't have I'm going to assume at least a text 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.760 message went out being like Bobby and Jane are sick. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.240 We're not gonna make it today. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.680 Okay, Look, if it's sick kids and you have let 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.720 the couple know, then I think it's wildly outrageous that 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.360 you're asking them to pay for it. But if there 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:17.880 is a no if they're just a no show and 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.960 there's no explanation and you're kind of okay with burning 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.280 your tires with old Uncle Bob and Arnie Cathy, fucking 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:25.320 go for gold. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:26.200 I am all for this. 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.160 Weddings are expensive, and I also think like, why is 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.120 it the weddings or of a different caliber? Like if 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.760 it was my birthday, for example, and I had said, like, hey, guys, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.920 it's sixty dollars ahead, can you please RSVP and make 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.600 sure that you're coming, and then four of my friends 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.600 just didn't show up and I had to pay for 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.120 their sixty dollars ahead and they were no shows. I 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.959 would want one hundred percent send them a text and 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.520 be like, hey, you owe me sixty bucks, like you 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:50.880 said you were coming and I just had to pay 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.040 two hundred and forty dollars because you didn't come to 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.840 my birthday. Like that's not cool, are we friends? 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:56.000 Like? 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.360 Would you still do that? If they were supposed to 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.839 come to dinner and exact, one of their little toddlers 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.000 got horrifically sick and she had to take them to 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.199 a hospital. Would you still say no? No? Of course, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:07.840 not of course. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.200 But also I feel like if they just didn't tell 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.320 me and I didn't know the answer or the reasoning, 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.839 then my reaction to it because the context is important, right, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.760 I think that this is the take home message. Context 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.120 in every situation is important, and without having any context, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.880 you just think your auntie and your uncle ghosted you. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.719 You'd been pretty fucking bad if you don't have context 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.400 and punctuation and things like that. My uncle Jack doff 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.960 a horse turns into my uncle Jack duffer horse. Do 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:40.280 you get that, saint? My uncle Jack goff a horse, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.520 my uncle Jack off the horse. Anyway, that was just 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.200 something that I remembered from like my childhood. Sorry I continue, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:47.360 so I have a story. You can tell me whether 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.839 I'm a bad person. I kind of was a no 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.520 show to a wedding, which I think is the fucking 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.360 rudest thing you can ever do. So do not like 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.200 you didn't tell them, guys, wait for it. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.240 This was not intentional. However, it caused a huge riff 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.360 in our friendship. Maybe I was the asshole and I 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.160 need you guys to tell me if I'm the asshole. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:05.880 Okay. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.480 So a girlfriend who I had been friends with for 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.560 a couple of years. We were more like acquaintance friends. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.000 She was the sort of friend who I'd go out 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.240 partying with, but she was definitely not the sort of 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.480 friend that we would never catch up for coffee, but 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.679 we would party together. I would see her on a 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.240 Saturday night maybe once every few months. And then I 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.040 went a couple of years without seeing her. You know, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:25.160 my life changed. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:26.160 I met Matt. 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.200 We didn't really connect for ages, and then I ran 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.960 into her the New Year's just after Matt and I 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.160 got together, so we'd only been together for a few months, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.400 and I ran into her at the news party. Had 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.600 a great night, like she's such a great girl and 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.480 I love her as a person. And she texted me 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.280 the next day and said, Hey, do you want to 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.600 come to my wedding? And I was like, yeah, when's 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.680 your wedding? And she said the date, and then that 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.040 was the whole conversation. So she was like give me 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.640 She was like, give me your address, I'll send you 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:52.319 an invite. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.760 She didn't send an invite. Yeah, a couple of months later, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:56.960 I mean I never got an invite. And so I 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.600 just assumed that that was like she was just over 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.559 excited about the fact that we had seen each other 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.520 the night before. I was like, I don't really think 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.240 she's gonna send me an invite, Like it's a throwaway comment. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:07.959 You were like, yeah, when you just like we should 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.400 catch up sometimes. Sure, you know you never going to 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.920 catch up, like you know it, let's get coffee, come 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.240 to my wedding, you know, same saying tomato tomato. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.920 So I thought it was just her being nice anyway, 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.160 or I thought that she had thought about it, didn't 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:22.960 want to invite me, and then didn't want to have 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.480 that awkward conversation of like, actually, sorry, I thought about it, 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.120 I don't want you to come. So I never got 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.520 an invitation. And then fast forward a couple of months, 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.280 I get a text message from her and it was, hey, 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.760 I just want to know why you didn't show up 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:36.320 to my wedding. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:41.120 Oh my god. And you were like, what fucking wedding. 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.080 We're not actually having coffee. We're not having the coffee. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.000 I was like, what are you talking about? 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.800 And she said, I sent you an invite, you said 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.439 you were coming, And I was like, whoa wa, well, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.439 I said I was coming on text. I never received 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.840 an invite ever, and that's why I didn't come. And 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.760 she was like, but you had said you were coming, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.520 And I said, I was sending you an invite, so 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.040 wouldn't you let me know if you didn't receive an invite? 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.240 And I was like, I don't know who's in the. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.000 Wrong, but I didn't show up to her wedding and 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.040 she has never spoken to me since. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.720 So is she saying is she trying to say that 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.520 she sent you the invite and I got lost in 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.520 the mail. I'm gonna call her bluff. I think she 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.360 didn't send you an invite. I think she sent you 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.800 the text and then thought that was invite and forgot. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:25.839 And then when you called around and said I never 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.199 got an invite, she's like, oh, we shouldn't. You should 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.120 have told me you didn't get it. Like things don't 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.360 really get lost in the mail anymore, Like they just don't. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:33.080 I don't know. 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.920 See, I actually genuinely I think back on this whole thing, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:37.960 she never sent me the details of the wedding, so 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.560 it's not like I had where to go any of 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.120 that sort of stuff. I genuinely think she sent me 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.760 an invite. She was mad when she texted me, And 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.200 to this day, I still think about it sometimes and 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.600 I'm like, I'm that person who was. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.439 A no show. There was like a place Matt for 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.280 me and Matt at her wedding and we just didn't 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:52.760 show up. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.080 Oh my god, I'm like scared, this is gonna come 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:56.920 back and bite me in the ass. Anyway, guys, let 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.720 us tell you what is happening on today's episode. This 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.160 is Oh, this is such a big episode that we 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:04.080 are bringing you today. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:05.200 For those of you who. 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.920 Follow along on at Instagram at Life on Cut podcast, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.200 you would have seen that on Sunday we were recommending 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.120 for you guys to go and watch a documentary. It 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.600 was called Incarceration Nation. It came out on SBS and 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.600 it was a documentary aired by NITV. Now, if you 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.560 haven't seen it, you can go back and watch it 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.280 on SBS Digital. We so hugely recommend that you watch 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.520 this documentary so that you can fully understand what this 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.600 episode is about. But we're interviewing Krly, who is the 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.839 CEO and co founder of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited. Now, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.160 Carli is a proud at Worajeri woman, she's from southern 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:42.360 New South Wales, and she talks extensively about the overrepresentation 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.200 of First Nation people who are incarcerated in Australia. Now, 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:51.480 these statistics behind this are incredibly harrowing, and like I said, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.880 please go and watch the documentary so that you do 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.960 get a really full understanding, because there is so much 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.640 to cover, and unfortunately in this interview we aren't able 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.880 to cover all of it, but we do get a 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.960 greater insight into Carl's life, into what her and her 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.120 husband Keenan, have experienced, and also into what the three 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.880 percent of our population, three percent of our population who 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.400 are the Indigenous population, what they are experiencing. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:16.600 But one thing I do. 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.360 Want to touch on here is that this is not 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.680 just a conversation around the incarceration of adults, but there 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.760 is a really important part of this conversation which touches 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.640 on the incarceration of children. There is also conversation around 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.360 domestic violence and how the current systems that we have 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240 in Australia are failing our First Nation people. So this 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.800 is a huge episode for us. We know that some 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.640 of this is going to be very heavy listening, but 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.240 we really hope that you can take something away from this, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.720 and like I said, there is a content warning on this. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.120 We do touch on some pretty heavy topics. So if 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.680 this isn't an episode that you feel in the right 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.880 head frame to listen to, maybe it's something you can 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.280 come back to later, and that's okay too. But we 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.800 do really think that this is such. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:55.640 An important topic. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.200 We feel really proud to be able to do this interview, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.320 and like we said, we recommend going on watching the 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.480 SBS documentary when you fill up for it as well. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.720 With that being said, guys, we are not going to 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.760 be doing Accidentally Unfiltered on today's episode, but you know 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.240 how much we love them, so we will be bringing 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:15.120 them to you on Thursday's Ask Uncut episode. Now, let's 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:27.200 meet Kyi. On Sunday night, NITV at a documentary called 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.240 Incarceration Nation. You can find it now on SBS on demand. 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.040 But here is what the documentary is about. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.360 Why did it take George floyd sad and tragic, horrible 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.240 death to bring any attention to what's happening right here 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.800 right in front of us in Australia. There's been a 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.600 history of violence in this country from that date when 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:49.400 the ships arrived. 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.840 Until we deal with the truth of this place and 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.080 the lies of this place, we're going to continue to 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:54.920 see more of the same. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.040 We are probably the most highly legislated race. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.360 You got to really ask yourself the question, how's it work. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.400 We started out as a penal colony and we've continued 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:04.360 to be whenever since. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.440 It's an injustice to have Australia's original inhabitants thirteen times 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.560 more likely to end up in prison. In no other 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.920 community will you see somebody walking to collect their mail 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.880 and being stopped by police and ask what are you doing? 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.200 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are amongst the most 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.400 incarcerated people in the world, whilst representing three point three 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.880 percent of the Australian population. First Nations men make up 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.360 about twenty seven percent of prisoners and First Nations women 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.760 constitute thirty four percent of prisoners. There have been at 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.280 least four hundred and seventy eight deaths of First Nations 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.560 people in custody in Australia from nineteen ninety one to 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.480 twenty twenty one, and there have been no criminal convictions 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.320 for the accused, absolutely none. Four hundred and seventy eight 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:55.280 deaths and no criminal convictions. Incarceration Nation puts First nations 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.840 voices front and center as they fight for change, visibility, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.240 and equality. Joining us today is Carlie Stanley, the CEO 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.880 and co founder of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.399 a proud we Raaderi woman. We see Carlie feature throughout 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.399 the SBS documentary. Carlie, Welcome to Life Uncut. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.920 Thank you. I'm very very happy to be here, Carli. 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:18.639 Can you tell us a little bit about what your 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.200 childhood was like, where you grew up and what your 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:22.280 family makeup is. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.720 So I was raised by my mum, who is also 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.040 a Roderi woman. I was raised in the inner City 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.399 in a west of Sydney. Yeah, I had a happy 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.959 childhood I had. My mum was one of ten children, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.600 so we came from a very very large family unit 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.680 and my family was one of the first Aboriginal families 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.639 to sort of move from the country to the inner city, 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.320 even though we remain very much connected to our culture 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.080 through our family ties and our kinship networks. Growing up 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.520 in a big family, I guess there was lots of 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.320 different things happening, and I felt very loved and I 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.199 felt very protected. But I now understand that there was 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.880 a significant amount of intergenerational trauma within my family, and 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.200 that you know, manifested in many different ways. I had 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.960 family members who were just as involved, and also, you know, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.040 some family members who didn't drink or smoke or do anything, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.000 but then some that did drink and smoke and do drugs. So, 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.159 you know, I have a lot of fond memories, but 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.960 I also had, you know, trauma growing up as well. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.320 Carlie, just something you just said, just to clarify for 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.800 people in case they don't know what it is, intergenerational trauma. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.560 You just mentioned that there was a lot of that 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.960 within your family. Can you just give us a little 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.919 rundown on what you mean by that term. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:39.280 Yeah, so intergenerational trauma would be explained as trauma that's 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.360 carried on through generations. So when we think about colonization 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.480 Aboriginal people, I sort of explain that as Aboriginal people 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.080 being in a constant state of grief, loss, and trauma. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.720 First of all through loss of culture, displacement from country, 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.119 you know, removal of children, and all of the things 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.320 that have happened to Obiginal people, and then that gets 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.879 passed down unresolved through generations and generations, so it's almost, 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:05.720 you know, you could explain that as well as like, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.080 you know, we're born grieving because of the loss that 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:10.080 we've experienced. 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.240 I think one of the things that Britt and I 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:16.680 spoke about after watching the documentary is, and I don't 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.399 even know what other way to say it, except that 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.840 it's embarrassing that I learned more about Aboriginal and Indigenous 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.639 history and what happened in our country than what I 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.760 learned in school, just from watching a one and a 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.520 half hour documentary. I think that there is this huge 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.600 lack of understanding and awareness, and therefore there is this 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.520 lack of understanding of what intergenerational trauma actually is and 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.960 how that manifests itself. Now, Carli, you are the CEO 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.240 of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited. Can you tell 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.080 us a little bit about what is Deadly Connections and 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.040 sort of how you go about helping the Indigenous community. 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.080 Yeah, So, Deadly Connections Community and Justice Services Limited is 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.320 an Aboriginal community controlled organization that was established by my 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.639 husband Keenan Mundine and I in September of twenty eighteen. 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.359 So we're coming up to our three year anniversary. You know, 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.120 we started Deadly Connections in community response to the overrepresentation 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.040 of our people in the justice and child protection systems. 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.479 I mean, I've worked in the community services sector for 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.639 over twenty years, particularly in the justice space, and my 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.200 husband has lived experience of actually being in both the 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.600 child protection system and the justice systems, and we just 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.280 seen the pain and you know, the unfair treatment that 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.640 our people would get. We thought like, how can we 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.119 support our mob and how can we do things differently? 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.560 And that's how Deadly Connections was born. 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.280 I think everybody knows this. Australia was colonized by the 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.720 British and it's been mentioned in the documentary this word 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.159 that we were a penal colony. Can you explain to 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.720 us what that means. One of the big messagings that 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.840 was driven home is that Australia is still effectively a 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.320 penal colony, which I think would come as a surprise 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:57.600 to a lot of people that sort of wording and terminology. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.480 Can you explain what that means and why that's case. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.760 The majority of Australia knows that when the first fleet 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.800 arrived in seventeen eighty eight, it was understood to be 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.040 a penal colony, so that convicts from England, Ireland, Scotland 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.360 and Wales were sent over to avoid the death penalty 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.760 and that was their solution to their imprisonment crisis that 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.760 was going on over there and over the next eighty years. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.479 So from seventeen eighty eight for the next eighty years, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.400 there was over one hundred and sixty thousand convicts sent 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.000 to Australia. And it still is being used as a 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.880 method to regulate and control rather than actually deal with 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.960 the social issues that create crime. We've been very good 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.960 at just locking people up and expecting them to learn 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.120 their lesson. And that's I guess what when we talk 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.760 about a penal colony and the way that it's continued, 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.399 that's what we're referencing. I mean, I guess there's a 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:54.520 misunderstanding amongst the wider public around prisons and what happens 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:58.040 in prisons and the way that locking people up is 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.919 supposed to keep us safer. But in real police and 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.120 prisons are not effective crime prevention tool because they become 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.800 involved once the crimes being committed. What we want to 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.080 do is resources the community so that crimes don't need 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.000 to be committed with the penal colony. There's such I think, 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.080 you know, the law and order rhetoric lock them up, 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.760 and it doesn't work for us. Our numbers are the 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.160 highest they've ever been. And the thing is a lot 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.320 of people think that it's because crime's going up. We've 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.080 got some of the lowest crime rates in over twenty years. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.239 But the bail systems and the laws that people have 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.000 to answer to when they appear for the core are changing, 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:33.880 and they're the things that they're driving the numbers through 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.600 the roof for prison numbers, not crime. A lot of 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.800 the times when Aboriginal people are coming into contact with 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.320 the criminal justice system, it's either for violence or for 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:47.280 crimes of survival, so stealing and being able to support themselves. 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.440 And a lot of the things that people are being 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.120 put in custody for, like there's a number of women 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.719 on nonviolent drug offenses that are in custody that to 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.440 me is such a waste of resources. You know, what 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.320 they need is drugging, alcohol treatment, not to be incarcerated 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.639 away from their children. And it's the same. You know, 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.280 we talk about nonviolent and violent offenders, and the reality 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.080 is whether they're violent or nonviolent, sending them to jail 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:15.520 is only going to increase the violence. It's not going 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.680 to deal with anything. We are seeing that a lot 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.800 of young people are going into custody for really petty 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.960 crimes and crimes of survival, and that is not helpful. 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.920 Because they're going into prisons where they're taught other skills 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.920 from other people who are also engaging in criminal activity. 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:34.399 They're not having their trauma delt with. They're not able 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.840 to access supports, mental health supports, counseling, supports, healing. They're 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:40.880 not able to access any of the things that we 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.840 know help contribute to a pro social member of society. 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.240 Carly, can you just explain to us a little bit 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:52.840 about how you think stereotypes have impacted the overrepresentation of 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.200 First Nations people that are currently incarcerated. 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.919 I think for as long as the wider public belief 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:04.520 give the stereotypes of Aboriginal people that are so widely 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:11.080 disseminated through media, through incorrect discourse, that they'll support the 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:13.600 fact that the majority of our men are in custody 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.920 and the majority of our women are now the fastest 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.280 rising prison population in the world. So for as long 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.639 as people believe that Aboriginal people have nothing to offer 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.359 other than the fact that they're drunks or they can't 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.119 see anywhere else where we can fit into society. And 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.160 in fact, if people actually took the time to come 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.679 into community and to meet Aboriginal people for themselves, they 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:37.919 would see that that's not who we are for the 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.159 people that are engaging in that stuff coming from a 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:44.719 deep place of hurt and trauma and no other skills 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.000 to do things differently, and that's what we want to do. 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:50.000 We're not saying that there are not challenges that we 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.600 need to address, but we're saying give us the resources 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.040 and tools to address them in the way that we 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:57.840 know how and stop relying on outside people to fix 0:24:57.880 --> 0:24:59.399 the stuff that we know what's going on. 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:03.760 In the documentary, we were shown that there were young 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.679 First Nations people that were arrested and put into prison 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.119 for things like, like you just said, survival crimes. They 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:13.480 were stealing bread rolls, They had stolen thirty cents from 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:17.800 somebody's car. And I mean, some people might say that 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:19.399 I can't say what I'm about to say, but I 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.399 can almost guarantee you a white child that stole a 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.520 bread roll would not go to prison and a white 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.199 child that stole thirty cents from a car would not 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:27.840 go to prison. 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I agree, And I think that's something 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:36.439 that our community sees so often, the disparity between sentencing, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.520 where you know, we've got an Aboriginal person and a 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:42.400 non Aboriginal person convicted of the same crime with different sentences. 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:45.480 It's nothing new to us. But I guess what this 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:49.359 documentary is highlighting is making that information readily available for 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:51.879 everybody else, which we've always known. 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.960 You did mention your husband earlier, and we were introduced 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.760 to Keenan's story in the documentary. He shared his incredibly 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.199 traumatic childhood story and how he went on to be 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:05.160 incarcerated several times himself later in life. Can you tell 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:08.520 us a little bit about his story, what happened and 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.320 also what happened in his life to break that cycle. 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.000 The reason why I asked that is because the statistics 0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:18.000 around when somebody has been incarcerated, the possibility and the 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:20.960 likelihood that they will go on to commit new crimes 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.679 and be incarcerated again is so high, and it just 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.200 goes to show that this is a system that isn't 0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.720 built on rehabilitation, but it's a system that's built on punishment, 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:32.640 and it's obviously a system that is so incredibly flawed. 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:36.440 Yeah, so I think my husband's story is one of many, 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.760 but a really important way to highlight the type of 0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:42.520 people who are in jails at the moment, and that's 0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:45.560 men and women, men and women who have had and 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.240 this is across the board, not just for Abriiginal people. 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.360 It's exacerbated for our people, but across the board, we've 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.240 got men and women in custody who have got significant 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:59.560 traumatic childhoods. And as we spoke about with intergenerational trauma, 0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.560 you know, it's manifesting into drug use, it's manifesting into 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:06.160 criminal activity to support the drug use, and it sort 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:08.800 of goes from there. So my husband grew up in 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.320 a large Abiginal community in Redfern called the Block, and 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.040 he lost both of his parents by the age of 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:19.399 seven and placed into kinship care and sort of split 0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:22.000 up from his siblings because they couldn't take them all 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.360 at once, so they all went to different family members. 0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:26.560 And you know, the family at the time didn't really 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.720 have the skills to understand the trauma that my husband 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.119 had been through, and they thought that by just giving 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.159 him a house and a bed that he'd be okay, 0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:37.080 and obviously he wasn't, and he had so many other 0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:40.880 things going on and wanting to be reconnected to his brothers, 0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:43.960 and you know, as he became an adolescent, he had 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.720 more questions. He had all this unresolved trauma that had 0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:50.800 never been dealt with, as many teenagers do, starts experimenting 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:53.800 with drugs and alcohol. Wanted to go and seek out 0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.439 his brothers, so gravitated back towards Redfern, where there was 0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:59.280 a number of people already involved in criminal activity and 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.240 drug use, and that's who he felt supported and where 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:05.159 he felt he belonged. And he went into custody for 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:07.840 the first time at the age of fourteen. That was 0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:10.400 for stealing a laptop from a car to be able 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:12.960 to feed himself, to be able to clode himself, because 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.399 by this time he was homeless and the people that 0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:17.680 were caring for him didn't want him in the house anymore. 0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:20.199 So he left and tried to find his brothers, and 0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:23.040 then that started his journey with the criminal justice system, 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:25.359 and he spent more than half of his life in 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.120 and out of both juvenile and adult custody. I met 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:30.960 him in a very very short period where he was 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:33.760 in the community for six weeks in between custodial sentences 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:37.560 when he was still sort of unhealed and unsupported. And 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.200 he returned to custody when he was twenty five and 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:42.760 came back out when he was twenty eight. But in 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.520 that time between twenty five and twenty eight he'd met me, 0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:49.120 but it had also gone into a therapeutic treatment center 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:51.880 within custody, which was the first time that he'd been 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:55.000 able to understand his trauma and the way that it 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:57.960 manifested and the way that that pushed him towards criminal 0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:01.000 activity and drug use and the wrong your associations in 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.920 the role modeling, and yeah, and then he decided that's 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:05.760 not what he wanted, and from that moment on he 0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:07.680 tried to turn his offer. And it hasn't been easy. 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:09.400 He's still on that journey. 0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:12.040 And I think one of the big things that like 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:13.800 a lot of people have heard this saying before, but 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.120 it's like, do the crime, do the time. And I 0:29:16.120 --> 0:29:18.200 think that that's a very black and white way of 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:20.280 looking at the world when we think about that, and 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:22.560 we think about that saying it doesn't take into account 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:26.160 people's circumstances and the reasoning behind why these crimes are 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.240 being committed. Not all crimes are committed equally. They're very 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.760 very different, and if one is out of desperation, out 0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:34.720 of homelessness, out of lack of education, or out of 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:38.080 lack of support, there should be a very different outcome 0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:40.360 in the way that we treat people other than just 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.680 locking them up and punishing them, because it doesn't really 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.480 deal with the root cause. It discussed a lot as well, 0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:48.600 the privatization of the justice system. How we do have 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:50.880 private jails in Australia in the very same way that 0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:52.240 we have them in the States. And I think a 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.840 lot of Australians would be aware that the States have 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:57.640 private jails, but maybe not that Australia does. 0:29:58.040 --> 0:29:59.840 Why is that such a huge problem. 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:05.560 Well, I think any business structure that relies on having 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:09.840 people in cells to profit is problematic. We see it 0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:12.680 with the We call it the prison industrial complex, and 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.200 it's something that's been highlighted in the US very very well. 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:21.080 If anybody's seen the documentary thirteenth, Incarceration Nation reminds me 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:23.440 very much of that documentary and the way that it 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.880 brings everything together and shows that This is a structured 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:31.520 way of continuing to oppress marginalized peoples and continuing to 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:35.640 profit off marginalized peoples. When we talk about it's doing 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:38.440 exactly what it's designed to do. It's continuing to oppress 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:42.280 marginalized minorities. And that's what we're seeing in the strats, 0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:44.960 what we see across the globe. It's not to say 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:47.440 that non aboriginal people don't commit crimes, look at the 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:50.320 white collar crimes, but they're not punished in the same way. 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:51.720 And that's what makes a difference. 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.239 One big thing that I know everyone's familiar with, and 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:57.080 that's what rocked the world was the death of George Floyd, 0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:00.440 and so many of us watch what happened in the 0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.920 United States were absolutely disgusted by it. We are so 0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.160 aware that there is racism, that there is racial discrimination, 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:09.680 that there is an issue within the police force and 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:11.880 within the justice system. And we kind of watched that 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:14.360 from Australian shaw as being like God, that the States 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.440 has really messed up. But what I don't think a 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:18.840 lot of people may realize, and what I certainly didn't 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:21.360 realize prior to watching this documentary, is that we have 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:24.520 had a very similar and have had many similar situations 0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:24.800 to this. 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:26.040 Happened in our own shores. 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:28.200 And one of the stories that were sheard is the 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:30.640 story of David Dungey, who was twenty six years old. 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.120 He was in his prison cell and he was in 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.360 and Use of Wales jail. He was very close to 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:37.880 being released, only a couple of weeks away from being released, 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:39.440 and he was in his jail cell and. 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:40.440 He was eating biscuits. 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.360 The guards asked him to stop, and he didn't, and 0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:48.320 almost just for that cheekiness, for disobeying an order that's 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:50.720 been asked of him. He was then taken by six 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.680 guards into another cell. He was sedated and his last 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:56.520 words were also I can't breathe, over and over again. 0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:59.520 Now this happened in twenty fifteen. It's a story that 0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:02.600 I think so many Australians are just not aware of. 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:05.640 And the question that I have is is why are 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:08.760 we so enraged by what's happening in other countries. Why 0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:10.880 are we so angry by what's happening in the States, 0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.600 but we aren't even aware of what's happening in Australia. 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.760 I think there's a number of factors that play there, 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:20.560 but I mean Obviously, we've got social media now that 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.840 gives us stuff in real time. So I think many 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:26.040 many years ago that would have happened to George Floyd 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:27.480 and we would have heard about it a week later 0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:31.040 or whenever we played catch up. But the info has 0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:33.840 always been here in Australia. Like we've had the Royal 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:37.160 Commission to Average on destin custody thirty years ago and 0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:39.840 that made a number of recommendations that still have not 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:44.560 been implemented. There's a number of people who are families 0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.320 who are fighting for justice for their loved ones who 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:50.959 have lost their lives to the justice system. I feel 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.720 like it's in people's face. It's a bit harder now 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.600 to ignore because of social media and because of you know, 0:32:56.760 --> 0:33:00.400 things that are trending. Black Lives Matter was trending just 0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:04.640 after COVID last year, and the donations for Deadly Connections 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:09.360 surged and we've never seen since we've started Deadly Connections, 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:13.120 we've never seen donations like that any time since. There 0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:16.560 were protests that occurred across different parts of Australia and 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:18.720 I think they were the biggest protests that we've ever 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:23.200 had for movements like this, for social justice movements because 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:25.320 I think a lot of the times it's easy to 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.720 ignore things that don't directly affect you. And for a 0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:32.400 lot of the wider public, the criminal justice system isn't 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:34.960 something they've ever thought about or isn't something they've ever 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:39.120 been impacted by. But for Aboriginal people, my earliest exposure 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:42.480 to the justice system was because my family members were incarcerated, 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.360 and I remember visiting them from the age of three, 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:47.440 four or five years old with my grandmother when I 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:51.320 was very very young, So it's normalized for us in 0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:53.120 a way. We know that the people that are in 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.280 jail are not terribly bad people. There are some people 0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:59.120 that are in jail that probably need to be there, 0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:03.160 but we know that jails aren't the answer. The reason 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:04.840 people have to go to jail at the moment is 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:07.800 because we don't have any other alternatives, and that's what 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:08.680 we want to change. 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.359 A huge part of this problem is that children are 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:15.680 at the epicenter. This means that this cycle is just 0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:18.760 going to continue until we can literally break the cycle 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:22.000 with the next generation. We're all familiar with the stolen generation. 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:23.960 At least I hope every one of you is familiar 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:27.840 with the stolen generation. But the fact is Indigenous children 0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:31.560 attend times more likely to be taken from their family. 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.120 So Carlie, how and why is this still happening. 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:37.400 Well, I mean, all of the systems that we have 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:40.840 in Australia, the child protection systems, the legal systems, all 0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:44.000 built off the back of England's systems. So we've got 0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:46.920 a colonial system that doesn't recognize any of the laws 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:50.920 that Aboriginal people had prior to colonization. It also doesn't 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:55.440 recognize any of the cultural nuances or differences across different cultures, 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.120 you know, but particularly for Aboriginal people, where we have 0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:02.160 different ways of doing things. We have very big families, 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:05.520 we have reciprocal relationships, you know, it's very different. So 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:09.360 we're being judged by generally. If we think about a 0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.400 case where a child's removed, the decision to remove that 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:14.640 child is in the hands of five or six non 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:19.719 Aboriginal people that are bound by practices that we've inherited 0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.600 over the years from colonial systems, and that they don't 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:25.400 get us. You know, they don't understand and they don't 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:29.279 value our opinions and our knowledge of our own communities. 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:32.520 I mean, we've had instances where we've been supporting women 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:37.759 very well, very intensively to try and avoid child protection removals, 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:40.560 and they've gone in and removed without even consulting us. 0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:43.839 Sometimes we work really well with them, and we've had 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:47.480 success where we've prevented removals of newborn babies from their 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:51.200 mums at the hospital. We've had successes. But I guess 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:54.200 when we're not included, and when we're not considered, it 0:35:54.400 --> 0:35:57.920 just takes us back so far. But when we are included, 0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:01.160 we work well together, we're able to get good outcomes 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:03.000 for families and for children. We don't want to see 0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:06.560 any children removed. And what the government is really really 0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:11.040 good at doing is investing in the tail end of things, 0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:15.480 so once people are offending, locking them up, once people 0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.120 are to the point where the child needs to get removed, 0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:22.640 spending thousands, hundreds of thousands on placing this child with 0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:25.799 a non aboriginal family, rather than resourcing the family in 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:27.280 the way that they need to be resourced. 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:30.120 We actually did an interview with a woman named Jess 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:33.280 Hill recently, and Jesse works very heavily within coursive control 0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.680 and domestic violence, and she spoke about coercive control, and 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:41.680 she spoke about how hugely that number of Indigenous people 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:44.880 are affected by domestic violence within Australia. But what she 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:48.360 mentioned is that women who may be the victims of 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:52.160 domestic violence, the police aren't necessarily trained to deal with 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:54.920 how those women act or how those women behave. And 0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:58.160 there have been cases where women have called for help, 0:36:58.280 --> 0:37:00.120 caught out and actually called the police to come and 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:02.920 support them in an instance of domestic violence, but instead 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:05.399 of receiving that support, they have been charged for other things. 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.960 They have been charged for acting in a way that 0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:10.279 maybe wasn't conducive for being a victim. But I mean, 0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:12.920 who are we to say, as a victim, this is 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:13.880 how you need to behave? 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.800 Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean for Aboriginal communities in particular, 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.680 we're matriarchal society, so we take our bloodlines from our mother. 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:24.360 So when we've got a disruption to the matriarch, it's havoc. 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:27.680 That's something that the government fails to understand. And I'm 0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:29.919 really glad you sort of brought this up because there's 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:33.320 a lot of contention with our community around coercive control, 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:36.600 because we don't believe that the solutions are found in 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:40.480 more legislation, because what we're concerned about is exactly what 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:44.160 you've said. If we're criminalizing coercive control and the police 0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:46.759 get called out there's an incident, what happens is the 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:50.080 woman will become criminalized if the story isn't given straight 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.120 and given the way it needs to be given. I 0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:55.680 think a really really good example. I mean it's not 0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:59.359 a good example. It's a heartbreaking example of the way 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:03.320 that this work is a woman in Western Australia, Tamika Malayley. 0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:05.359 I don't know if you've heard of her. Yeah, she 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.640 was a victim of domestic violence, severe domestic violence. She 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:11.760 was attacked by her partner. At the time police were called. 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.800 When they presented, she was drenched in blood. A neighbor 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:16.600 had wrapped her in a sheet. The sheet was covered 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:20.239 in blood. When the police attended, she became She was distraught. 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:22.480 She became aggressive with the police. She swore at them. 0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:25.319 She asked for her father. They didn't listen. They threw 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:27.640 her into the back of a paddywagon. They arrested her. 0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:31.360 The perpetrator found her four month old baby, recovered the 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.239 baby killed the baby while she was in custody. Her 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.880 father was pleading with the police to help them to 0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:39.320 get the baby back because he knew that the baby 0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:41.760 was going to be harmed. They didn't listen to him. 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:45.640 The baby died, which was heartbreaking, four month old baby Charlie. 0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:49.760 And they then charged Tamika and her father with obstruction 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:53.640 of justice and proceeded with those charges, and I believe 0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:54.560 they were found guilty. 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:59.239 The story of Tamika and Charlie is unbelievably horrific. And 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:02.319 I did just mentioned Jess Hill. This is actually a 0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:04.279 really it's an interesting. 0:39:03.960 --> 0:39:07.480 Crossover for us because Jess Hill, who has a documentary, 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:08.840 See What You Made Me Do? I know a lot 0:39:08.880 --> 0:39:11.520 of our listeners are familiar with it. We interviewed her 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:15.239 a little while ago. Episode number two of her documentary, 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:18.080 See What You Made Me Do, actually tells the full 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:23.360 story of what happened that night, and it is incredibly harrowing. 0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:26.080 If anybody hasn't gone and listened to that interview that 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:28.759 we did with Jess Hill, it's a very important and 0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:33.319 powerful conversation. In Incarceration Nation, we are also introduced to 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:37.360 another girl who was abused in her foster homes, and 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:40.359 there's twenty something foster homes that she bounced between after 0:39:40.440 --> 0:39:43.480 she was relocated and separated from her family. We do 0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:46.080 have a little grab from this from Incarceration Nation to 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:46.960 play for you guys. 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.719 She says an assault by a care worker when she 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:53.680 was eleven has left her traumatized. And then he just 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:55.200 kept on look on hit me funny ways. 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:56.400 But I didn't think anything of it. 0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.640 You know, so young still, you know, and I didn't 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.920 think think of it. And then yeah, he opened his 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:07.400 legs and his flyers down, jumped up, and I went 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:11.040 to my room then and then I was just days 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:11.880 and off, just hit, you know. 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:15.200 And as I was gone to sleep, he walked in 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:21.480 the room, closed the door and does And then I 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:25.960 just turned real heartless for a bit for a while, 0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:30.440 inges did whatever could to make good, good reason to 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:31.400 get locked up, you know. 0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:34.359 The girl who had been interviewed says that she kept 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.560 reoffending so that she could go back into custody, implying 0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:39.440 that that was a better place to be. Being in 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:41.840 custody was better than what it was being in the 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:44.239 foster homes that she was in. Karlie, what is the 0:40:44.320 --> 0:40:47.120 noble effect of children being removed from their parents due 0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:48.120 to them being locked up? 0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:51.480 Well, we know that for children who lose their parents 0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:55.919 to imprisonment, they have a higher likelihood of themselves being incarcerated, 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:58.640 either as a child or an adult or both. It's 0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:01.680 perpetuating that trauma. I mean, one would have to question 0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:06.160 how much safer are these children being removed from their 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:09.880 families instead of resourcing families with the skills and the 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:13.240 tools that they need to look after their children. Because 0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:16.719 what we're not understanding, particularly for original people who are 0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:19.759 part of the stolen generation, who have never experienced that 0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:24.120 organic family, there's an assumption that people are born with 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.720 the capacity to parent, and that's not always the case, 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:31.120 particularly for our communities. So one would need to question 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:34.560 why we're not investing more into the families and why 0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:38.040 we're investing into taking children like this young girl who 0:41:38.200 --> 0:41:42.360 experienced unbelievable abuse. You know, how have we kept this 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:46.320 child safer? How is the system keeping our children safer? 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:49.799 We know that this is not an isolated story. We've 0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:53.400 got incidences of children being removed from their families and 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:57.040 being put in hotel rooms with twenty four hour support workers. 0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:00.640 To me, that's just insane. It's insane that we can't 0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:03.400 be paying somebody to live in home with them and 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:05.680 give these parents the skills it's needed. We know that 0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.960 locking people up and removing children from their families does 0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:11.000 not work, yet we continue to do it. 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:13.719 Why one of the big things that I think that 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:15.560 no one could look away from, but let alone a 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:20.960 mother watching that like the doco, was the incarceration of juveniles. Now, 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:23.359 what the documentary explores is that there are children who 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.719 have been incarcerated in our correctional facilities in Australia who 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:30.319 have spent twenty three days straight in solitary confinement with 0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:33.120 only being allowed less than an hour outside of their 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:36.200 tiny little cell, and that isn't even in natural daylight. 0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.880 There were also children who have been very violently strip 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:43.040 searched by correctional guards and some of the footage is 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.880 just harrowing. Karli, how is this happening and how has 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.480 this been happening for so long? And nobody, well, I 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:52.520 shouldn't say nobody. I know a lot of people are 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.720 very very angry about it. But why aren't more people 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:57.840 aware of this? Because I feel like if the general 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.920 population was aware of it, there would be public outcry. 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:03.720 I think racism in Australia plays a really big part. 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:05.600 All you have to do is get on a post 0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:09.800 on social media where somebody's posted something outrageous, the assault 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.440 of a child in custody or whatever it is, and 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:15.400 then you see all the people on there justifying that 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.759 behavior and that treatment of that child. We see a 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:22.920 young person in the documentary, it looks like he's vandalizing 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:26.040 the center. He's just come out of a period of 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:29.719 solitary confinement, and that's what the media will go, these 0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:31.560 are the people that are being locked up. Look at 0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:34.279 his behavior, but not giving the context to what's led 0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:36.919 to him behaving like that. The way that we talk 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:39.719 about the work with young people in Deadly Connections is 0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:42.960 we don't have bad kids. We have hurt kids. A 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:44.920 lot of the kids that are in prison, similar to 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:49.239 the adults, come from traumatic backgrounds, and their behavior is 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:53.080 a manifestation of their trauma and their disadvantage. And until 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:54.799 we deal with that, we're going to continue to have 0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:58.640 these issues. And they're not bad kids, they just need support. 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:00.960 This or just leads back what we were saying earlier 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:04.120 about how incarcerating people. That we know that when someone 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.920 has been incarcerated, the probability of them being incarcerated a 0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:10.720 second time increases, and especially when we see these children 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:13.520 and the footage that you were referring to, Krli, For 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.000 anybody who hasn't seen the docer yet, it is this 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:18.680 fourteen year old boy. He has spent twenty three days. 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:20.120 This is the boy that I was referring to, is 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.480 twenty three days in solitary confinement inside a room that 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:26.360 is about three and a half meters by two meters. 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.960 Anybody who spent that long without any natural daylight. He 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:32.920 didn't know what time of day it was, He didn't 0:44:32.920 --> 0:44:35.920 know night from day anymore. One of the guards actually 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:38.040 didn't lock his cell and he got out into a 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:40.920 more common area, and that's when he vandalized the common area. 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:44.279 And as a punishment for that, all the boys that 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:46.359 were in the cell, there were six of them, were 0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.520 tear gased in short range. And now this is I 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:51.960 think tear gas is very different to pepys rage us, 0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:54.080 so people are aware of the significance of it and 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:57.000 the pain that that inflicts. But that was the punishment, 0:44:57.000 --> 0:44:58.520 and that I agree with you, Carli. I think if 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.040 you saw that out of context, just saw that footage, 0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:02.760 you would be like, that kid's out of control. 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:04.520 He deserved it. 0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:07.120 Needs to be in there's yeah, but that's not the case. 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:09.040 That was the hardest thing for me to watch the 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:11.239 treatment of the kids in that movie, and it was 0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:13.800 just like we know it, we see it, but seeing 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:15.720 it like bang bang bang, and I was like, wow, 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:18.720 this is what people need to see, Like it's so traumatizing, 0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:20.759 but it's what people need to see. And the other 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:23.279 thing is, you know, we're not we're not seeing this 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:26.279 treatment with non Aboriginal kids. At some point last year, 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:28.960 I believe when the Black Lives Matter protests were happening, 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:32.400 one hundred percent of the young people in custody in 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:37.759 the Northern Territory were Aboriginal one hundred percent. Let's let 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:40.319 that sink in for a minute. Nowhere else does that 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:45.000 happen with any other cultural identity, Nowhere else? And if 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:48.120 we had non Aboriginal children being treated like this, they'd 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:50.960 be outrage. And that's why I say, you know, Australia 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:53.640 does a really good job at othering and making sure 0:45:53.680 --> 0:45:57.520 that people see Aboriginal people as less than human. And 0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:01.080 that's what allows people to permit this behavior to go 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:04.319 on as not seeing this as their own children because 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:08.279 they're Aboriginal children. It's different. They're not white children, They're 0:46:08.320 --> 0:46:11.640 not my children. And when we talk about children and 0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:15.000 raising the age, we say not my children, not your children, 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:17.320 but our children, because they're everyone's children. 0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:19.759 Can you tell us? Because there are communities that have 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:23.719 implemented successful strategies to help indigenous communities, they're based on 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.280 things like less policing and more support. What is the solution? 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:32.000 What are you pushing to be put in place to 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:32.920 break this cycle? 0:46:33.680 --> 0:46:36.440 Well, we need structural change. First of all. If you 0:46:36.480 --> 0:46:39.680 look at the budgets of the justice expenditure, it's like 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:43.360 ten billion dollars for New South Wales alone. It's crazy 0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:48.040 money being put into this disruptive violence system that continues 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:51.240 to perpetuate harm on people who who are already harmed. 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:54.719 So community led solutions for us is the big one, 0:46:54.840 --> 0:46:58.520 and it's also incorporating transformative justice. So we in deadly 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.560 connections we talk about transformative justice, which is one layer 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:05.480 above restorative justice. So to me, if I can explain it, 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:07.960 as you know you've had your bike stolen, for example, 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:11.520 restorative justice would be I've stolen your bike, we get together, 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:14.040 I apologize for stealing your bike. You get your bike 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:18.800 back that's what happens. Transformative justice is that still happens, 0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:21.600 but then we try to understand why did I steal 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:24.040 your bike in the first place? What would have stopped 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.359 me from stealing your bike? Did I steal your bike 0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:28.200 because I was hungry? Did I steal your bike because 0:47:28.200 --> 0:47:31.359 I was bored? Why did I steal your bike? And 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:33.360 then we can put solutions in place to stop that 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:37.160 from happening again. That's what transformative justice is. Alternatives to imprisonment, 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:41.920 diversionary programs, things that we know, healing houses, you know. 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:45.280 Deadly Connections wants to start a healing house for people 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.239 who were justice involved with child protection as well, whether 0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:50.800 that's as children or as adults, you know, but we 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:52.440 lack the resources to do it. 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.040 I'm conscious about how to frame this because I know 0:47:55.120 --> 0:47:57.399 that it is a perception that I think a lot 0:47:57.400 --> 0:47:59.720 of people in Australia have and it is what adds 0:47:59.760 --> 0:48:02.840 to racism in Australia. But there is a thought. You 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:04.360 see it in social media, you see it in the 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:07.400 comments section. It's the comment of like, we have so 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:11.280 many support systems in regards to like you can get funding, 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:14.920 like they're on benefits. I think that there is this mentality, well, 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.520 you can get money from the government, so there's already 0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:21.640 things in place. Why is that such an incorrect thought 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:24.880 that people have. Why is that so flawed and completely 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:26.800 unhelpful to the actual situation at hand. 0:48:27.200 --> 0:48:29.360 I think a lot of the information that the wider 0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:31.960 public get comes from media or comes from people who 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:34.759 just don't know. Abitginal people are three percent of the population, 0:48:35.000 --> 0:48:38.120 So we are trying to convince ninety seven percent of 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.360 the population that the way that we're being treated is 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:43.120 not okay. That's not easy. There's not a lot of 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:45.560 people that can go to Aboriginal people or communities and 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:48.320 say is this the case. There was a recent clip 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.160 that I put on on our Socials where Senator Lydia 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:54.520 Thorpe was questioning the government on their expenditure under the 0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:58.040 Indigenous Advancement Strategy, which is supposed to be for Aboriginal communities, 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:00.960 and they'd given away over a billion dollars to large 0:49:00.960 --> 0:49:06.440 corporations like Crown, Casino, Woolworths for Aboriginal employment programs. So 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:09.279 this is why people think that Aboriginal people get so 0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:13.040 much funding. The funding is directed towards Aboriginal people, but 0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:16.680 it's been given to non Aboriginal corporations and organizations to 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:19.279 do the work, and it doesn't work because they're not 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:22.399 equipped to work with our communities. Aboriginal people don't get 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:26.000 any more benefits than any other group who require support. 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:28.640 We've got different names for things, but we've got abs, study, 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.360 we've got odds study. The amounts are the same. Nobody 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:33.000 get you know, we don't get free houses. We don't 0:49:33.000 --> 0:49:35.000 get free cars. If we do, I'd like to know 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:38.080 where they are because nobody that I know gets them. 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:38.560 You know. 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:42.080 Also this idea that like and I think that this 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:43.720 is something that a lot of people don't think about, 0:49:43.719 --> 0:49:46.520 like true poverty, what true poverty looks like. If you 0:49:46.560 --> 0:49:48.520 don't have a tax file number, if you don't have 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:52.040 a birth certificate, you don't get serviced. You slip through 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:54.839 those cracks. Now this is relative to Indigenous people and 0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:57.520 to non Indigenous people, but there is a gap in 0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:00.400 our system which doesn't cater for the people who are 0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:03.360 the most vulnerable because they do not have the ability 0:50:03.440 --> 0:50:05.600 or the services to be able to access what is 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:09.400 available or not even necessarily just having Wi Fi and 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:11.319 a computer where you can go cool. I'm going to 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:12.919 jump on and get onto my GV. 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:15.120 And that's a really good point, Laura, because that's all 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:18.600 part of systemic racism as well. It all contributes to 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:21.719 that belief where it separates us from them. It's like 0:50:22.160 --> 0:50:24.600 Aboriginal people have been given a fair chance, you know, 0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:27.040 they've got so much money poured at them. We've got 0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:29.440 a denial of the Prime Minister that there was slavery 0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:33.000 when we know that Aboriginal people were not paid wages 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.080 and their wages were withheld from them, and there's many 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:37.799 families and communities who are still battling to this day 0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:40.800 to recover those wages for their loved ones. We haven't 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:43.960 had the opportunity to participate in the economy the way 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:46.960 that everybody else has. Even still now we've got people 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:50.200 being released, like you said, no birth certificate, no tax 0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:53.080 one number. You can't even get center link if you 0:50:53.120 --> 0:50:55.920 don't have those documents, like you can't even get benefits. 0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:58.759 And we're seeing this problem as well with the refugees 0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:01.680 now as well, where if you're not an Australian citizen 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:04.200 you can't access support. These systems that are set up 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:09.000 to help vulnerable people further disenfranchise them and even when 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:11.400 we think about people coming out of custody, something that 0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:16.720 Deadly Connections advocates for quite strongly is giving people employment opportunities. 0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:19.600 If we've got people coming out of custody with no 0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:22.640 opportunity to get a job, they're left with two options 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:27.000 welfare dependency or reoffending. That's it, and people don't think 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:29.680 of it that way. I mean part of our journey 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:32.560 with my husband Deny, part of Deadly Connections as well, 0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:36.319 is giving people with criminal records an opportunity. Every single 0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:39.360 person that works for Deadly Connections has lived experience of 0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:42.640 some sort. We employ both Aboriginal and non Aboriginal people. 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.040 We've got two non Aboriginal people working with us at 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:47.240 the moment, both of them have experience, have been to jail, 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.120 and we've also got an Aboriginal woman who has lived 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.960 experience with the child protection and the justice system. So 0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:55.920 for us being able to give people opportunities like that, 0:51:55.960 --> 0:51:58.560 we know employment is more than just a job for 0:51:58.600 --> 0:51:59.440 a lot of those people. 0:52:00.000 --> 0:52:02.480 It's so easy for someone to sit back and say, oh, well, 0:52:02.480 --> 0:52:04.479 they didn't even go and get a job. They got out, 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:07.160 they got given another chance, they didn't go get a job. 0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:10.799 If you physically, Like if everyone just thinks about this 0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:13.440 for a moment, now you've just been and like your 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:16.520 husband said in his story when he was telling his story, 0:52:16.520 --> 0:52:18.359 he said, they opened the gates when it was time 0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:20.480 for me to be released, and they said, off you go, 0:52:20.640 --> 0:52:23.400 and that was it. Imagine standing there with no phone. 0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:25.239 You want to go and do the right thing. But 0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:26.840 how are you supposed to eat? How are you supposed 0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:28.600 to get a job, How do you get to the job, 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:31.240 How do you find the job? You don't have internet access, 0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:33.799 you don't have a roof over your head. And I 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:35.840 think that's really easy for us to forget. But I 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:37.640 think if you put yourself in this position, and if 0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:41.120 everyone goes and watches this documentary, it really is eye opening. 0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:42.920 So do you think that they're the things that we 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:44.520 should be putting this money back into? 0:52:44.880 --> 0:52:47.319 Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean everything that you've touched them. 0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:50.360 I think it's sort of worth acknowledging that change happens 0:52:50.400 --> 0:52:53.799 at different parts of people's lives, depending on where they're at. So, 0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:55.839 you know, something that a lot of people get caught 0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:58.920 up on is advocating for support for young people. But 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:01.239 my husband didn't make those changes until he was in 0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:04.600 his mid twenties, and if he didn't have those supports available, 0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:06.439 then what would have happened. He would have gone back 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:08.759 to what he knew how to do, and that was 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.040 to support himself through crime. They were the skills that 0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:12.640 he had, They were the tools that he had in 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:15.399 his toolbox. So the aim for us is to give 0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:20.759 people different tools, different skills, and different ways of doing 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:22.920 things which some of them have never had the opportunity 0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:25.200 to do. And this is why we need to continue 0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:28.320 that journey. We need to provide other alternatives like healing 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:30.680 houses where people can come and learn the skills that 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:33.360 they need to be the best parent they can be, 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:35.440 to be a pro social member of society, and to 0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:38.120 be able to heal the trauma and the factors that 0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:41.520 keep them entrenched in the justice and child protection systems. 0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:44.520 As someone who is not Indigenous, what can we do 0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:47.399 to better support our community and better to support that 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:51.920 three percent when we are the majority percentage in Australia. 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:55.720 There's many things that you can do. Taking action comes 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.360 in many forms, So we don't expect to be everyone 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.600 to be on the streets protesting, because you know your 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:04.839 support can come in many ways, but becoming an accomplice. 0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:07.480 And we use the word accomplice rather than ally because 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:10.160 we feel like an ally is sort of someone who's 0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:12.560 standing beside you. But we want someone who's going to 0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:14.719 get their hands dirty and who's going to get into it. 0:54:15.120 --> 0:54:17.960 And that could be you know, writing to Parliament and 0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:20.640 demanding change, or writing to your local member and asking 0:54:20.680 --> 0:54:23.839 them to raise age or to change the legislation that 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:27.279 we know entrenches our people in the system. You could 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:30.680 also support community led solutions, whether that's locally or whether 0:54:30.719 --> 0:54:33.400 that's Deadly Connections. There are lots of Aboriginal community control 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.760 organizations operating across Australia doing the work, the grassroots work 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:40.640 that needs to be done. A lot of echoes similar 0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:44.040 to Deadly Connections, don't have any funding challenging racism and 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:47.400 stereotypes amongst your peers or amongst your families or amongst 0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.319 your colleagues. Supporting our journey to try and get a 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:53.719 healing house. Because I know who I'd rather be living 0:54:53.719 --> 0:54:56.080 next to. I'd rather be living next to somebody that's 0:54:56.080 --> 0:54:59.320 had the opportunity to address their issues or their challenges. 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:01.279 I don't want to be living next to somebody who's 0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:03.759 done twenty years in jail and they've opened the gate 0:55:03.760 --> 0:55:06.080 and just spat them out, because we know what kind 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:09.000 of people that that creates. The other thing is volunteer 0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:13.400 with Aboriginal community controlled organizations. Donate your time, donate your resources. 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:16.680 I mean, for Deadly Connections, we're so under resource at 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:20.279 the moment. I'm hate JR. I'm social Media, I'm the 0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:23.840 communications them. My husband sort of does you know partnerships 0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:27.239 and marketing and everything that we have done. We've had 0:55:27.280 --> 0:55:30.000 to learn ourselves and there are so many people that 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.600 have got expertise that they could lend to us. And 0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:37.320 promoting our work through podcasts like this and through our socials, 0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:40.880 spreading the message about what we're doing and changing the narrative. 0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:43.439 Changing the narrative is the biggest thing, because, like I said, 0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:46.440 we're three percent of the population trying to convince ninety 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:50.040 seven percent of the population that's happening. What's happening isn't right. 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:52.839 Carl, thank you so much for giving us your time. 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:55.640 Thank you so much for all of your work, not 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:59.120 just with Deadly Connections, but with put in together this documentary. Guys, 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.239 if you have not seen Incarceration Nation, it was out 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:04.239 on SBS on Sunday night, but you can go and 0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:06.680 watch it. I think that you will feel the same 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:08.160 as Britt and I did. And you know, we're really 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:10.080 proud to be able to sit down and talk to you, Carlie, 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:12.239 and thank you for everything that you were doing. Can 0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:15.080 you please tell all of the listeners where they can 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:18.480 find you, and also how they can access more information 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:20.560 about Deadly Connections and get involved if there is a 0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:21.399 way that they can help. 0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:24.040 Yeah, thank you so much again for having me, and 0:56:24.160 --> 0:56:26.400 thank you for taking an interest in such an important 0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:29.120 topic and you know, trying to create change. It's really 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:31.839 important to us. We have a website which you can 0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:36.479 find out more information is www dot deadly connections dot 0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:40.040 org dot au. We also have an Instagram page at 0:56:40.080 --> 0:56:43.840 Deadly Connections, same as Facebook at Deadly Connections, and we 0:56:43.920 --> 0:56:48.000 have a Twitter account which is at Deadly ccajs. 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:49.000 Calie. 0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:51.960 Thank you so much. You have been such a wonderful 0:56:52.040 --> 0:56:54.600 person to interview. It's such a hard conversation to have, 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.719 but it's such an important one, and so thank you 0:56:56.760 --> 0:56:59.240 so much for giving us your time today. I've learned 0:56:59.320 --> 0:57:01.040 so much and I hope all of you guys can 0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:03.560 take the time to go and watching Carceration Nation, also 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:05.640 because I know that it'll touch you as much as 0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:06.240 it touched. 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:08.719 Laura and myself. Carlie, thank you for coming and we'll 0:57:08.760 --> 0:57:09.439 chat to you soon. 0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:17.720 Thank you, Thanks Brittany, Thanks Laura. Bye. 0:57:23.520 --> 0:57:25.800 All right, guys, you know that we never finish an 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:28.600 episode without our sucket and now Sweet, our highlight and 0:57:28.600 --> 0:57:29.440 our low light of. 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:30.480 Each and every week. 0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:33.600 Pretty hit me, you are living a much more sensational 0:57:33.640 --> 0:57:34.479 life than me at the moment. 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:36.840 What is your highlight and your low light? I definitely 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:38.120 am I'm sorry about that. 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:40.760 Yeah, I'm like, it's not even one of those things 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:42.800 where you can feel bad by saying that because you're like, 0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:44.120 your life sucks. 0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:46.120 I'm sorry for you. No, that's the hard thing. I 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.240 actually feel fucking horrendous. I just saw so much, but 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:52.160 it's so hard for me to, like, I don't want 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:54.320 to say what I'm doing because I feel so horrible 0:57:54.320 --> 0:57:56.520 for all of you at home. But you know, we 0:57:56.560 --> 0:57:58.880 do have to do sucking sweet, So I'm going to 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:02.040 find one. Stuck it off. Yeah, so suck it up. 0:58:02.440 --> 0:58:05.480 My suite for the week is that it is the 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:08.320 US Open Tennis tournament. Obviously, it's one of the biggest 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:11.320 tennis tournaments. It's very exciting to be here. And Jordan 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:15.320 is playing today, so Tuesday, he's playing today. So send 0:58:15.760 --> 0:58:18.400 all your well wishes my way. Sorry, not my way, 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:23.200 Jordan's way. I'm irrelevant. Send them to Jordan. My suck 0:58:23.560 --> 0:58:27.760 is because it's the US Open here and it's such 0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:29.880 a big competition. There's only four of these Grand Slams 0:58:29.880 --> 0:58:33.240 a year. I am sleeping in a separate bed to Jordan. 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:36.439 So we're here together where we're together for a we're 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:38.280 together for a small amount of the year, and he's 0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:40.560 kicked me out. He's well, I mean, okay, he didn't 0:58:40.600 --> 0:58:42.680 kick me out. I was trying to do this like 0:58:42.760 --> 0:58:45.000 reverse psychology thing where I was trying to be like 0:58:45.040 --> 0:58:47.880 the really good supportive girlfriend. I know he needs a 0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:49.560 lot of sleep and I don't want to interrupt that, 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:51.920 so I was like, hey, love, like, do you want 0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:53.600 me to just like sleep in the other room, you know, 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:55.680 just give you the space that you need so get 0:58:55.720 --> 0:58:58.920 a really good sleep. Reverse psychology. I was thinking he 0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:00.680 would say, no, I want to see with you. He's like, 0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:02.160 oh my god, that would be amazing. I was like, 0:59:02.160 --> 0:59:04.040 what the fuck. I was like, that was not how 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:05.560 this conversation went in my head. 0:59:05.800 --> 0:59:07.720 Brittany sleeping in a hotel down the road, and she's like, 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:09.560 I swear my relationships, fine, everything's great. 0:59:10.280 --> 0:59:11.920 So I'm in another room, not even another bed in 0:59:11.960 --> 0:59:13.440 the same room. I'm in a whole nother room. I've 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:15.560 got a whole nother bathroom. So I feel like we're 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:17.480 living this separate life at the moment. But you know, 0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:19.360 it's more important for him to be able to sleep 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:20.920 well and play well. So that's my suck and that's 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:22.560 my sweet I understand it. 0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:25.560 I understand where like couples get into their forties fifty 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:28.040 sixties and sometimes decide to have this different bedroom and 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.120 they're like, fuck off, Well I wake up in the morning, 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:33.080 I wake up right because I'm like, he sleeps in 0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:34.600 so I can't wake him up in the morning night, 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:37.320 so I just have to bide my time on start 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:39.560 doing some work in bed until I finally hear, like 0:59:39.600 --> 0:59:41.760 all the way down the corridor, this really soft noise. 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:45.640 I hear cutie, and then I know that's like my alarm, 0:59:45.680 --> 0:59:46.960 and then I'm allowed to. 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:47.640 Enter the room. 0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:49.720 He's of a different breed, I think when you're a 0:59:49.760 --> 0:59:53.120 professional sports person, like, especially when you're in the key 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:55.440 part of your competition, I guess you can be a 0:59:55.440 --> 0:59:57.640 little bit selfish. You could be like, totally, I'm gonna 0:59:57.640 --> 0:59:58.960 sleep down the other end of the house and do 0:59:59.040 --> 0:59:59.680 not disturb me. 0:59:59.840 --> 1:00:01.440 Just come and have sex with me and leave. Yeah, 1:00:01.480 --> 1:00:04.320 I'm looking loving it, to be honest. What's your suck 1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:04.720 and suite? 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:06.440 Okay, my suck for the week is the wedding. I 1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:08.440 don't think I can pop that one right now. So 1:00:09.240 --> 1:00:10.760 I know we've said this a couple of times, but 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:14.480 the current state of the situation is this idea that 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:16.960 you can't get excited about things anymore. You know that 1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:19.440 there's not really the potential to like book something in 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:22.160 and then look forward to the future. I think at 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:25.720 the moment, it's just this groundhog day, and that's probably 1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:27.960 the best way of describing it. It just everything feels 1:00:28.080 --> 1:00:30.720 very gray and we're kind of doing the same thing 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:33.680 every day, and that's definitely been my suck is like 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.320 missing out on things that six months ago I was 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:37.360 so looking forward to. 1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:39.400 So, yeah, you know, I want to see my mom. 1:00:39.720 --> 1:00:40.760 Everybody's in the same boat. 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:42.360 I know you guys all feel the same, and this 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:46.360 is it's very galvanizing that I think we collectively are 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:48.960 all experiencing this and we all have the same feelings 1:00:49.000 --> 1:00:51.240 towards this my sweet. 1:00:50.800 --> 1:00:51.360 For the week. 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:54.920 And I think, you know what, it's the little things 1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:56.840 I've mentioned at the start that like I went to 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:58.880 the park with the kids. I know that that doesn't 1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:00.480 sound exciting, but like I. 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:02.760 Took Molly and Laula. We went to Centennial Park. 1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:05.520 We went bush like, we went right off into like 1:01:05.520 --> 1:01:07.600 where it's overgrown and foliage, and I just wanted to 1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:09.360 get away from the people and just be able to 1:01:09.400 --> 1:01:11.000 walk around with the kids and have a nice time 1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:14.080 outside out of our apartment. And it meant the world 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:16.680 to have these little moments to be able to look 1:01:16.680 --> 1:01:20.040 forward to. And that was like, by far, I didn't 1:01:20.080 --> 1:01:21.800 take my phone. It was by far the highlight of 1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:22.160 my week. 1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:24.160 But what you just said, I just want to like 1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:26.520 pull you up on that for a hot little second 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:28.840 when you say, I know it's not that big of 1:01:28.840 --> 1:01:31.120 a dealer. I know it's not that exciting a it 1:01:31.240 --> 1:01:33.960 is b But that's exactly what suck and Sweet's about. 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.120 It doesn't have to be this big, extravagant moment. It's 1:01:36.160 --> 1:01:38.600 just something that's special in your life. And that's why 1:01:38.600 --> 1:01:40.560 we encourage all you guys to do this at home too, 1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:43.080 when you're at dinner with your family or with your flatmates, 1:01:43.160 --> 1:01:45.000 just ask each other, what's your stuck on your sweet 1:01:45.120 --> 1:01:46.800 what's the best thing in the littlest thing. It's just 1:01:46.800 --> 1:01:49.240 a it's a way to be grateful for what you've got, 1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:51.080 it's a way to reflect on what you've got, and 1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.080 it's a way to just enjoy all the little moments 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:55.360 exactly like you to said Laura, and I really think 1:01:55.440 --> 1:01:58.000 like in saying that, if you're in the same situation 1:01:58.080 --> 1:01:59.960 that we're in, if you're in lockdown, if you're fear 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:01.920 feeling like it's groundhole day, if you're feeling all the 1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:04.600 things that I've just described, like carving out a little 1:02:04.640 --> 1:02:06.840 bit of time for yourself, whatever it is. Maybe it's 1:02:06.880 --> 1:02:10.000 reading your favorite book, maybe it's, you know, watching four 1:02:10.040 --> 1:02:12.320 episodes in a row of that TV show that you love, 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:15.120 Like whatever self care looks like, maybe it is spending 1:02:15.160 --> 1:02:17.680 some time with your kids and getting out of the 1:02:17.760 --> 1:02:20.120 house in a way that's safe obviously, but just like 1:02:20.520 --> 1:02:23.560 going and doing something that's really special, quality time to 1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:26.000 break up the monotony. Like for me, I know that 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:27.600 I find it really easy just to get into a 1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:30.320 cycle of work, work, work, and then because I'm constantly 1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:33.240 around my laptop and I'm not really engaged with my children. 1:02:33.280 --> 1:02:35.160 And I had a real awakening this week where I 1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:38.520 was like, I don't want to spend this really precious 1:02:38.560 --> 1:02:40.760 time with them always with my head in my phone. 1:02:40.800 --> 1:02:42.680 And Moley's gotten too an age now where she will 1:02:42.720 --> 1:02:47.760 say no phone mummy, no phone mummy, and oh that's tough. Yeah, 1:02:47.760 --> 1:02:49.600 and it just I had a real week where I 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:52.200 was like, I want to make some changes so that 1:02:52.520 --> 1:02:54.080 I don't have to hear my child say no phone 1:02:54.160 --> 1:02:57.000 mummy anymore. So, yeah, that was big, a big shift 1:02:57.040 --> 1:02:57.240 for me. 1:02:57.520 --> 1:02:59.800 And I just want everyone who's in this situation to 1:02:59.840 --> 1:03:03.320 know that, like, we are thinking of you, and we 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:05.560 hope that we are bringing you content that for some 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:07.920 you know, I know today's episode was really heavy, but 1:03:08.360 --> 1:03:10.680 we really are trying to bring you a lot of escapisms. 1:03:10.960 --> 1:03:12.520 I hope that you're enjoying the batch on cut. I 1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:14.920 hope you're enjoying all the bonus episodes that we're putting together. 1:03:15.240 --> 1:03:17.080 All of this is because we know that you guys 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.360 are at home and we just hope that it can 1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:20.560 bring a little smile to your face. 1:03:20.720 --> 1:03:23.040 And on that note, guys, that is it from us, 1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:27.560 So you know the drill. Please send your accidentally unfilters, 1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:30.120 end your ask uncuts to our Instagram, which is Life 1:03:30.200 --> 1:03:33.440 Uncut Podcast. Just make sure you label them ask uncut 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:35.680 if it's a question or accidently unfiltered, if it's one 1:03:35.720 --> 1:03:37.840 of your funny fuck ups. Because we love hearing that, 1:03:38.040 --> 1:03:40.680 we really really, I can't stress enough, please write that 1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:43.360 shit in. Also, if there's anything that's funny that has 1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:45.480 happened to you or we remember we used to do. 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:47.120 I can't believe they said that. We want to hear 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:50.920 about anything that is happening in your life. And all 1:03:51.080 --> 1:03:54.680 the good, juicy, great shit goes down in our Facebook 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:57.160 discussion group. So if you're not a member of that yet, 1:03:57.480 --> 1:04:00.280 that is on Facebook and that is Life Uncut Podcast. 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:02.800 And anyway, guys, you know the drill. Tell your mum, 1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:04.840 tell your dad, tell your dog, Tell your sister and 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:06.320 your brother, and your uncle and your cousin and the 1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:08.560 cheek down the road, and maybe your friend who's in 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:11.000 a really shitty ass toxic relationship and she needs a 1:04:11.000 --> 1:04:12.640 bit of hard love and soft love from life on 1:04:12.760 --> 1:04:15.920 card and chave a laugh because we will. 1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:19.840 Okay, I totally, I totally fucking whispered that because it's 1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:21.360 two AM and jawns to sleep, and I was like, 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:24.400 love love, I love it so much, I'm going to 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:26.800 be crucified in the morning. I brought the enthusiasm for 1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:28.120 you to a