Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1: I'm Laura and I'm joined by britt on the other side.
Speaker 1: I'm on the other side of the world, and yes,
Speaker 1: i am Brittany. Thank you for introducing me. Laura. You've
Speaker 1: never done that before. I didn't. I don't really know
Speaker 1: what to do with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, last episode you made a big song and
Speaker 2: dance about how I never do anything different, so I
Speaker 2: thought i'd try something different. And now you're really thrown
Speaker 2: So which one is it going to be, Babe?
Speaker 1: Which one? Maybe try something different, but give me the
Speaker 1: heads up. You're gonna try something different, but just like
Speaker 1: bear with me, britt I'm going to try something No,
Speaker 1: that's cool. I'm Brittany. This is Laura. This is my
Speaker 1: co host, Laura. This is Tuesday's episode. This is our big,
Speaker 1: meaty and in Laura's words, very very very special episode. Well.
Speaker 2: I was gonna try and avoid saying that it's a
Speaker 2: special episode, but the truth is it really is a
Speaker 2: special episode today. But before we get into the episode,
Speaker 2: I just want to.
Speaker 1: Make you all aware. I know a great number of
Speaker 1: you have been listening to the Batch Uncut recaps and
Speaker 1: this is our home run. Guys.
Speaker 2: We are down to finale week this week, and I'm
Speaker 2: feeling good in Maloyan's I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa whoah, that's too much information.
Speaker 2: Brit It hasn't watched a single episode, so we can't
Speaker 2: even We can't even talk to her about it.
Speaker 1: She doesn't care. She's left us. No, it's something. Look,
Speaker 1: I will always care about the Bachelor. It was like
Speaker 1: my foundation, Like I'm better than that now, BLA. I
Speaker 1: don't need you, Bachelor, No I do, Please, I'll need you.
Speaker 1: I having followen along social media, I feel like there
Speaker 1: are so many I mean, I get the recaps from
Speaker 1: you guys, and I get so many social media recaps.
Speaker 1: I feel like I have covered all bases. I feel
Speaker 1: like I know who's gonna win, which I obviously don't.
Speaker 1: I feel like I know all the tumultuous situations that
Speaker 1: have happened. And I don't want anyone to think that
Speaker 1: I've given up on my Bachelor family, because I absolutely
Speaker 1: have not. Well, we have been saying this entire time.
Speaker 2: Matt and I have no more insight other than our
Speaker 2: sparty senses as to who's gonna win, he's been saying,
Speaker 2: Jay and I am just so ready for my girl
Speaker 2: Holly to bring it on down to the winning town.
Speaker 2: I don't even know where else going with that, but
Speaker 2: she's gonna get it. She's gonna make a home run.
Speaker 2: She's gonna get a man, and I can't wait for
Speaker 2: Thursday Nights. But anyway, we've got a few things to
Speaker 2: cover off before we get to Bachelor.
Speaker 1: What's been happening in your life this week, Laura, surely
Speaker 1: you have some exciting updates for me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, look, we're heading into week what never ending
Speaker 2: infinity of Lockdown in Sydney. I had some pretty disappointing
Speaker 2: news actually, which if you are one of my very
Speaker 2: close friends who listens to this podcast and you've been
Speaker 2: invited to my wedding, I'm sorry that I'm telling the
Speaker 2: podcast world before I sent you an email to let
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like ninety nine point nine percent sure
Speaker 2: that Matt and I are going to have to postpone
Speaker 2: our wedding. Yeah, BRIT's finding out now for the first time,
Speaker 2: I really am.
Speaker 1: This is how it happens. This is how I got
Speaker 1: my wedding invitation as well. Nothing's changed, It's literally how
Speaker 1: I get all my information from Laura. I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker 1: So we were holding, you know, waiting, We've baited breath
Speaker 1: to see if you had to postpone the wedding or not,
Speaker 1: and it looks like you have to, does it. Well.
Speaker 2: Also, the thing is is if we didn't postpone, there'd
Speaker 2: be a very good chance that you wouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to come like at the moment, and I don't think
Speaker 2: you guys are even aware of this, but like Britt
Speaker 2: physically can't come home, Like there's no flights at the
Speaker 2: moment for Britt to get back. She was actually supposed
Speaker 2: to be arriving back in the country pretty much this
Speaker 2: week and then going into two weeks quarantine. But we've
Speaker 2: been spending like the last gosh like two months trying
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to.
Speaker 1: Get her home.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, for the next unforeseeable future, this is just
Speaker 2: the situation that we're in and we're going to keep
Speaker 2: on doing these zoom recordings. But yeah, a big thing
Speaker 2: now is with Matt, like a big part of his family,
Speaker 2: his mum and all his brothers, they all live in Brisbane,
Speaker 2: and so we didn't want to have a wedding, or
Speaker 2: we don't want to go ahead with a wedding unless
Speaker 2: it's the sort of wedding that we want to have,
Speaker 2: you know. And it is really disappointing, but I kind
Speaker 2: of I mean, I feel like so many people have
Speaker 2: experienced their own COVID hardships, and I know that there
Speaker 2: are so many people who listen to this podcast who
Speaker 2: have had to postpone their weddings over the past. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I just I mean, it freaking sucks, is
Speaker 2: what it does. But like it's just a part of
Speaker 2: the modern world that we live in. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Do you think that you will reschedule a date or
Speaker 1: is it just not worth it for now? Is it
Speaker 1: just like an indefinite pushback and you'll see what happens
Speaker 1: to the new year. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like the problem is is that because everybody's
Speaker 2: in the same boat and everyone's weddings are getting postponed,
Speaker 2: it's a situation where you almost have to try and
Speaker 2: figure out a date quickly because all the dates next
Speaker 2: year and then the year after getting booked out. But
Speaker 2: you know, one thing I think that we are lucky for,
Speaker 2: and I guess this is the thing that I've been
Speaker 2: thinking about. Which has made me less sad about the
Speaker 2: whole fact that we have to push the wedding out
Speaker 2: is that I know a lot of people when they
Speaker 2: get married, they're getting married because they think to themselves, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: once we're married, we're gonna start our life. We're gonna
Speaker 2: have our kids, we're gonna, you know, do all the
Speaker 2: big life milestones. And for us, we've kind of already
Speaker 2: done that, Like we had the kids, we did everything
Speaker 2: in reverse. So I know that we just we just
Speaker 2: want to have a big, old, massive party.
Speaker 1: And so until we can have a party where everyone
Speaker 1: can dare, everyone can embrace each other, no one has
Speaker 1: to wear a mask. Yeah, until that can happen, I
Speaker 1: think we're just gonna have to put on hold. So
Speaker 1: I said, if you're someone who's invited to my wedding,
Speaker 1: I promise you'll get an email with the real updates soon. Okay.
Speaker 1: Well that's also great because this would have been me
Speaker 1: also RSVP to you saying I probably can't come now,
Speaker 1: even if you were holding it. So I'm glad we
Speaker 1: stopped this information on air.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine, though, Could you imagine if I had
Speaker 2: a wedding and you didn't come, like what.
Speaker 1: Well, I actually from what's happening at the moment, I
Speaker 1: don't think. No, I know I wouldn't have been I
Speaker 1: know that the flights there are no flights for the
Speaker 1: next like eight weeks. It's insane. It's is there's nothing
Speaker 1: I'd have to swim back. So I actually would not
Speaker 1: have made your wedding. So it's probably for the best, Laura,
Speaker 1: not to you. I only appreciate it because of you.
Speaker 1: I actually have something I want to ask you. Whilst
Speaker 1: we're on the topic of weddings. This is something that
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have seen, but it's circulated
Speaker 1: online at the moment. Now, there was a couple in
Speaker 1: America that had a wedding. They put out all their RSVPs.
Speaker 1: Everyone said they were coming. They put out one more
Speaker 1: like last call out, this is one hundred percent the
Speaker 1: last time. Are you sure you're coming to our wedding?
Speaker 1: Everyone ticked yes. They had the wedding. On the day
Speaker 1: of the wedding, their cousin who had children, the children
Speaker 1: got sick. Now, on the wedding invitation, it was strictly
Speaker 1: no children, so the children got sick. The babysitter couldn't
Speaker 1: look after the kids anymore. I mean, you're also not
Speaker 1: going to bring sick kids to a wedding anyway, So
Speaker 1: the babysitter can't come. The kids are sick, the parents
Speaker 1: physically can't go. They're like, we can't go, so they
Speaker 1: don't go. One month later, they receive in the mail
Speaker 1: an invoice. And the invoice was from the couple that
Speaker 1: got married, and it was a legitimate business invoice, and
Speaker 1: it had the topic wedding no show, pay for meal,
Speaker 1: the yeah, and the wedding yeah. And the invoice was
Speaker 1: for two hundred and fifty dollars. They were invoicing them.
Speaker 1: They said, you RSVP that you were coming. You failed
Speaker 1: to show your meal per head cost two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty dollars these bank details. Please also fill out the
Speaker 1: reason why you did not attend. Now this has gone
Speaker 1: bonkers online and I wanted to know what your thoughts
Speaker 1: were on this, because when I first I mean like,
Speaker 1: I actually don't know how I feel. I know deep
Speaker 1: down how I feel, but when I first read it
Speaker 1: and saw the invoice, I was like, how could you
Speaker 1: send that? How could you get married and then start
Speaker 1: to build people for your wedding, And then I had
Speaker 1: a little part of me that was like, well, fuck,
Speaker 1: it's two hundred and fifty dollars ahead. Someone said they
Speaker 1: were coming, so you paid for the meal. Then they
Speaker 1: didn't come. I was like, that's pretty shitty. And now
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a fens sitter. I still think
Speaker 1: that you can't ask for the money. But I was
Speaker 1: a bit like, I don't know. I want to know
Speaker 1: what the world thinks good.
Speaker 2: I think this is good. I think we should be
Speaker 2: doing this more. Look, I have a question. Did the
Speaker 2: person just do a no show or like they obviously
Speaker 2: didn't call or send a message to the couple who
Speaker 2: was getting married and say, hey, my kids are sick.
Speaker 1: We're not coming like that.
Speaker 2: It seems like a very fatal part of the conversation
Speaker 2: is missing here.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I actually don't I'm going to assume.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm going to assume, because surely they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have I'm going to assume at least a text
Speaker 1: message went out being like Bobby and Jane are sick.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna make it today.
Speaker 2: Okay, Look, if it's sick kids and you have let
Speaker 2: the couple know, then I think it's wildly outrageous that
Speaker 2: you're asking them to pay for it. But if there
Speaker 2: is a no if they're just a no show and
Speaker 2: there's no explanation and you're kind of okay with burning
Speaker 2: your tires with old Uncle Bob and Arnie Cathy, fucking
Speaker 2: go for gold.
Speaker 1: I am all for this.
Speaker 2: Weddings are expensive, and I also think like, why is
Speaker 2: it the weddings or of a different caliber? Like if
Speaker 2: it was my birthday, for example, and I had said, like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: it's sixty dollars ahead, can you please RSVP and make
Speaker 2: sure that you're coming, and then four of my friends
Speaker 2: just didn't show up and I had to pay for
Speaker 2: their sixty dollars ahead and they were no shows. I
Speaker 2: would want one hundred percent send them a text and
Speaker 2: be like, hey, you owe me sixty bucks, like you
Speaker 2: said you were coming and I just had to pay
Speaker 2: two hundred and forty dollars because you didn't come to
Speaker 2: my birthday. Like that's not cool, are we friends?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Would you still do that? If they were supposed to
Speaker 1: come to dinner and exact, one of their little toddlers
Speaker 1: got horrifically sick and she had to take them to
Speaker 1: a hospital. Would you still say no? No? Of course,
Speaker 1: not of course.
Speaker 2: But also I feel like if they just didn't tell
Speaker 2: me and I didn't know the answer or the reasoning,
Speaker 2: then my reaction to it because the context is important, right,
Speaker 2: I think that this is the take home message. Context
Speaker 2: in every situation is important, and without having any context,
Speaker 2: you just think your auntie and your uncle ghosted you.
Speaker 1: You'd been pretty fucking bad if you don't have context
Speaker 1: and punctuation and things like that. My uncle Jack doff
Speaker 1: a horse turns into my uncle Jack duffer horse. Do
Speaker 1: you get that, saint? My uncle Jack goff a horse,
Speaker 1: my uncle Jack off the horse. Anyway, that was just
Speaker 1: something that I remembered from like my childhood. Sorry I continue,
Speaker 1: so I have a story. You can tell me whether
Speaker 1: I'm a bad person. I kind of was a no
Speaker 1: show to a wedding, which I think is the fucking
Speaker 1: rudest thing you can ever do. So do not like
Speaker 1: you didn't tell them, guys, wait for it.
Speaker 2: This was not intentional. However, it caused a huge riff
Speaker 2: in our friendship. Maybe I was the asshole and I
Speaker 2: need you guys to tell me if I'm the asshole.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So a girlfriend who I had been friends with for
Speaker 2: a couple of years. We were more like acquaintance friends.
Speaker 2: She was the sort of friend who I'd go out
Speaker 2: partying with, but she was definitely not the sort of
Speaker 2: friend that we would never catch up for coffee, but
Speaker 2: we would party together. I would see her on a
Speaker 2: Saturday night maybe once every few months. And then I
Speaker 2: went a couple of years without seeing her. You know,
Speaker 2: my life changed.
Speaker 1: I met Matt.
Speaker 2: We didn't really connect for ages, and then I ran
Speaker 2: into her the New Year's just after Matt and I
Speaker 2: got together, so we'd only been together for a few months,
Speaker 2: and I ran into her at the news party. Had
Speaker 2: a great night, like she's such a great girl and
Speaker 2: I love her as a person. And she texted me
Speaker 2: the next day and said, Hey, do you want to
Speaker 2: come to my wedding? And I was like, yeah, when's
Speaker 2: your wedding? And she said the date, and then that
Speaker 2: was the whole conversation. So she was like give me
Speaker 2: She was like, give me your address, I'll send you
Speaker 2: an invite.
Speaker 1: She didn't send an invite. Yeah, a couple of months later,
Speaker 1: I mean I never got an invite. And so I
Speaker 1: just assumed that that was like she was just over
Speaker 1: excited about the fact that we had seen each other
Speaker 1: the night before. I was like, I don't really think
Speaker 1: she's gonna send me an invite, Like it's a throwaway comment.
Speaker 1: You were like, yeah, when you just like we should
Speaker 1: catch up sometimes. Sure, you know you never going to
Speaker 1: catch up, like you know it, let's get coffee, come
Speaker 1: to my wedding, you know, same saying tomato tomato.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was just her being nice anyway,
Speaker 2: or I thought that she had thought about it, didn't
Speaker 2: want to invite me, and then didn't want to have
Speaker 2: that awkward conversation of like, actually, sorry, I thought about it,
Speaker 2: I don't want you to come. So I never got
Speaker 2: an invitation. And then fast forward a couple of months,
Speaker 2: I get a text message from her and it was, hey,
Speaker 2: I just want to know why you didn't show up
Speaker 2: to my wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And you were like, what fucking wedding.
Speaker 1: We're not actually having coffee. We're not having the coffee.
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And she said, I sent you an invite, you said
Speaker 2: you were coming, And I was like, whoa wa, well,
Speaker 2: I said I was coming on text. I never received
Speaker 2: an invite ever, and that's why I didn't come. And
Speaker 2: she was like, but you had said you were coming,
Speaker 2: And I said, I was sending you an invite, so
Speaker 2: wouldn't you let me know if you didn't receive an invite?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know who's in the.
Speaker 2: Wrong, but I didn't show up to her wedding and
Speaker 2: she has never spoken to me since.
Speaker 1: So is she saying is she trying to say that
Speaker 1: she sent you the invite and I got lost in
Speaker 1: the mail. I'm gonna call her bluff. I think she
Speaker 1: didn't send you an invite. I think she sent you
Speaker 1: the text and then thought that was invite and forgot.
Speaker 1: And then when you called around and said I never
Speaker 1: got an invite, she's like, oh, we shouldn't. You should
Speaker 1: have told me you didn't get it. Like things don't
Speaker 1: really get lost in the mail anymore, Like they just don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: See, I actually genuinely I think back on this whole thing,
Speaker 2: she never sent me the details of the wedding, so
Speaker 2: it's not like I had where to go any of
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. I genuinely think she sent me
Speaker 2: an invite. She was mad when she texted me, And
Speaker 2: to this day, I still think about it sometimes and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm that person who was.
Speaker 1: A no show. There was like a place Matt for
Speaker 1: me and Matt at her wedding and we just didn't
Speaker 1: show up.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm like scared, this is gonna come
Speaker 2: back and bite me in the ass. Anyway, guys, let
Speaker 2: us tell you what is happening on today's episode. This
Speaker 2: is Oh, this is such a big episode that we
Speaker 2: are bringing you today.
Speaker 1: For those of you who.
Speaker 2: Follow along on at Instagram at Life on Cut podcast,
Speaker 2: you would have seen that on Sunday we were recommending
Speaker 2: for you guys to go and watch a documentary. It
Speaker 2: was called Incarceration Nation. It came out on SBS and
Speaker 2: it was a documentary aired by NITV. Now, if you
Speaker 2: haven't seen it, you can go back and watch it
Speaker 2: on SBS Digital. We so hugely recommend that you watch
Speaker 2: this documentary so that you can fully understand what this
Speaker 2: episode is about. But we're interviewing Krly, who is the
Speaker 2: CEO and co founder of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited. Now,
Speaker 2: Carli is a proud at Worajeri woman, she's from southern
Speaker 2: New South Wales, and she talks extensively about the overrepresentation
Speaker 2: of First Nation people who are incarcerated in Australia. Now,
Speaker 2: these statistics behind this are incredibly harrowing, and like I said,
Speaker 2: please go and watch the documentary so that you do
Speaker 2: get a really full understanding, because there is so much
Speaker 2: to cover, and unfortunately in this interview we aren't able
Speaker 2: to cover all of it, but we do get a
Speaker 2: greater insight into Carl's life, into what her and her
Speaker 2: husband Keenan, have experienced, and also into what the three
Speaker 2: percent of our population, three percent of our population who
Speaker 2: are the Indigenous population, what they are experiencing.
Speaker 1: But one thing I do.
Speaker 2: Want to touch on here is that this is not
Speaker 2: just a conversation around the incarceration of adults, but there
Speaker 2: is a really important part of this conversation which touches
Speaker 2: on the incarceration of children. There is also conversation around
Speaker 2: domestic violence and how the current systems that we have
Speaker 2: in Australia are failing our First Nation people. So this
Speaker 2: is a huge episode for us. We know that some
Speaker 2: of this is going to be very heavy listening, but
Speaker 2: we really hope that you can take something away from this,
Speaker 2: and like I said, there is a content warning on this.
Speaker 2: We do touch on some pretty heavy topics. So if
Speaker 2: this isn't an episode that you feel in the right
Speaker 2: head frame to listen to, maybe it's something you can
Speaker 2: come back to later, and that's okay too. But we
Speaker 2: do really think that this is such.
Speaker 1: An important topic.
Speaker 2: We feel really proud to be able to do this interview,
Speaker 2: and like we said, we recommend going on watching the
Speaker 2: SBS documentary when you fill up for it as well.
Speaker 1: With that being said, guys, we are not going to
Speaker 1: be doing Accidentally Unfiltered on today's episode, but you know
Speaker 1: how much we love them, so we will be bringing
Speaker 1: them to you on Thursday's Ask Uncut episode. Now, let's
Speaker 1: meet Kyi. On Sunday night, NITV at a documentary called
Speaker 1: Incarceration Nation. You can find it now on SBS on demand.
Speaker 1: But here is what the documentary is about.
Speaker 4: Why did it take George floyd sad and tragic, horrible
Speaker 4: death to bring any attention to what's happening right here
Speaker 4: right in front of us in Australia. There's been a
Speaker 4: history of violence in this country from that date when
Speaker 4: the ships arrived.
Speaker 5: Until we deal with the truth of this place and
Speaker 5: the lies of this place, we're going to continue to
Speaker 5: see more of the same.
Speaker 4: We are probably the most highly legislated race.
Speaker 3: You got to really ask yourself the question, how's it work.
Speaker 3: We started out as a penal colony and we've continued
Speaker 3: to be whenever since.
Speaker 1: It's an injustice to have Australia's original inhabitants thirteen times
Speaker 1: more likely to end up in prison. In no other
Speaker 1: community will you see somebody walking to collect their mail
Speaker 1: and being stopped by police and ask what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are amongst the most
Speaker 1: incarcerated people in the world, whilst representing three point three
Speaker 1: percent of the Australian population. First Nations men make up
Speaker 1: about twenty seven percent of prisoners and First Nations women
Speaker 1: constitute thirty four percent of prisoners. There have been at
Speaker 1: least four hundred and seventy eight deaths of First Nations
Speaker 1: people in custody in Australia from nineteen ninety one to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and there have been no criminal convictions
Speaker 1: for the accused, absolutely none. Four hundred and seventy eight
Speaker 1: deaths and no criminal convictions. Incarceration Nation puts First nations
Speaker 1: voices front and center as they fight for change, visibility,
Speaker 1: and equality. Joining us today is Carlie Stanley, the CEO
Speaker 1: and co founder of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited,
Speaker 1: a proud we Raaderi woman. We see Carlie feature throughout
Speaker 1: the SBS documentary. Carlie, Welcome to Life Uncut.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm very very happy to be here, Carli.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about what your
Speaker 1: childhood was like, where you grew up and what your
Speaker 1: family makeup is.
Speaker 3: So I was raised by my mum, who is also
Speaker 3: a Roderi woman. I was raised in the inner City
Speaker 3: in a west of Sydney. Yeah, I had a happy
Speaker 3: childhood I had. My mum was one of ten children,
Speaker 3: so we came from a very very large family unit
Speaker 3: and my family was one of the first Aboriginal families
Speaker 3: to sort of move from the country to the inner city,
Speaker 3: even though we remain very much connected to our culture
Speaker 3: through our family ties and our kinship networks. Growing up
Speaker 3: in a big family, I guess there was lots of
Speaker 3: different things happening, and I felt very loved and I
Speaker 3: felt very protected. But I now understand that there was
Speaker 3: a significant amount of intergenerational trauma within my family, and
Speaker 3: that you know, manifested in many different ways. I had
Speaker 3: family members who were just as involved, and also, you know,
Speaker 3: some family members who didn't drink or smoke or do anything,
Speaker 3: but then some that did drink and smoke and do drugs. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I have a lot of fond memories, but
Speaker 3: I also had, you know, trauma growing up as well.
Speaker 1: Carlie, just something you just said, just to clarify for
Speaker 1: people in case they don't know what it is, intergenerational trauma.
Speaker 1: You just mentioned that there was a lot of that
Speaker 1: within your family. Can you just give us a little
Speaker 1: rundown on what you mean by that term.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so intergenerational trauma would be explained as trauma that's
Speaker 3: carried on through generations. So when we think about colonization
Speaker 3: Aboriginal people, I sort of explain that as Aboriginal people
Speaker 3: being in a constant state of grief, loss, and trauma.
Speaker 3: First of all through loss of culture, displacement from country,
Speaker 3: you know, removal of children, and all of the things
Speaker 3: that have happened to Obiginal people, and then that gets
Speaker 3: passed down unresolved through generations and generations, so it's almost,
Speaker 3: you know, you could explain that as well as like,
Speaker 3: you know, we're born grieving because of the loss that
Speaker 3: we've experienced.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that Britt and I
Speaker 2: spoke about after watching the documentary is, and I don't
Speaker 2: even know what other way to say it, except that
Speaker 2: it's embarrassing that I learned more about Aboriginal and Indigenous
Speaker 2: history and what happened in our country than what I
Speaker 2: learned in school, just from watching a one and a
Speaker 2: half hour documentary. I think that there is this huge
Speaker 2: lack of understanding and awareness, and therefore there is this
Speaker 2: lack of understanding of what intergenerational trauma actually is and
Speaker 2: how that manifests itself. Now, Carli, you are the CEO
Speaker 2: of Deadly Connections and Justice Services Limited. Can you tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about what is Deadly Connections and
Speaker 2: sort of how you go about helping the Indigenous community.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Deadly Connections Community and Justice Services Limited is
Speaker 3: an Aboriginal community controlled organization that was established by my
Speaker 3: husband Keenan Mundine and I in September of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: So we're coming up to our three year anniversary. You know,
Speaker 3: we started Deadly Connections in community response to the overrepresentation
Speaker 3: of our people in the justice and child protection systems.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've worked in the community services sector for
Speaker 3: over twenty years, particularly in the justice space, and my
Speaker 3: husband has lived experience of actually being in both the
Speaker 3: child protection system and the justice systems, and we just
Speaker 3: seen the pain and you know, the unfair treatment that
Speaker 3: our people would get. We thought like, how can we
Speaker 3: support our mob and how can we do things differently?
Speaker 3: And that's how Deadly Connections was born.
Speaker 2: I think everybody knows this. Australia was colonized by the
Speaker 2: British and it's been mentioned in the documentary this word
Speaker 2: that we were a penal colony. Can you explain to
Speaker 2: us what that means. One of the big messagings that
Speaker 2: was driven home is that Australia is still effectively a
Speaker 2: penal colony, which I think would come as a surprise
Speaker 2: to a lot of people that sort of wording and terminology.
Speaker 2: Can you explain what that means and why that's case.
Speaker 3: The majority of Australia knows that when the first fleet
Speaker 3: arrived in seventeen eighty eight, it was understood to be
Speaker 3: a penal colony, so that convicts from England, Ireland, Scotland
Speaker 3: and Wales were sent over to avoid the death penalty
Speaker 3: and that was their solution to their imprisonment crisis that
Speaker 3: was going on over there and over the next eighty years.
Speaker 3: So from seventeen eighty eight for the next eighty years,
Speaker 3: there was over one hundred and sixty thousand convicts sent
Speaker 3: to Australia. And it still is being used as a
Speaker 3: method to regulate and control rather than actually deal with
Speaker 3: the social issues that create crime. We've been very good
Speaker 3: at just locking people up and expecting them to learn
Speaker 3: their lesson. And that's I guess what when we talk
Speaker 3: about a penal colony and the way that it's continued,
Speaker 3: that's what we're referencing. I mean, I guess there's a
Speaker 3: misunderstanding amongst the wider public around prisons and what happens
Speaker 3: in prisons and the way that locking people up is
Speaker 3: supposed to keep us safer. But in real police and
Speaker 3: prisons are not effective crime prevention tool because they become
Speaker 3: involved once the crimes being committed. What we want to
Speaker 3: do is resources the community so that crimes don't need
Speaker 3: to be committed with the penal colony. There's such I think,
Speaker 3: you know, the law and order rhetoric lock them up,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't work for us. Our numbers are the
Speaker 3: highest they've ever been. And the thing is a lot
Speaker 3: of people think that it's because crime's going up. We've
Speaker 3: got some of the lowest crime rates in over twenty years.
Speaker 3: But the bail systems and the laws that people have
Speaker 3: to answer to when they appear for the core are changing,
Speaker 3: and they're the things that they're driving the numbers through
Speaker 3: the roof for prison numbers, not crime. A lot of
Speaker 3: the times when Aboriginal people are coming into contact with
Speaker 3: the criminal justice system, it's either for violence or for
Speaker 3: crimes of survival, so stealing and being able to support themselves.
Speaker 3: And a lot of the things that people are being
Speaker 3: put in custody for, like there's a number of women
Speaker 3: on nonviolent drug offenses that are in custody that to
Speaker 3: me is such a waste of resources. You know, what
Speaker 3: they need is drugging, alcohol treatment, not to be incarcerated
Speaker 3: away from their children. And it's the same. You know,
Speaker 3: we talk about nonviolent and violent offenders, and the reality
Speaker 3: is whether they're violent or nonviolent, sending them to jail
Speaker 3: is only going to increase the violence. It's not going
Speaker 3: to deal with anything. We are seeing that a lot
Speaker 3: of young people are going into custody for really petty
Speaker 3: crimes and crimes of survival, and that is not helpful.
Speaker 3: Because they're going into prisons where they're taught other skills
Speaker 3: from other people who are also engaging in criminal activity.
Speaker 3: They're not having their trauma delt with. They're not able
Speaker 3: to access supports, mental health supports, counseling, supports, healing. They're
Speaker 3: not able to access any of the things that we
Speaker 3: know help contribute to a pro social member of society.
Speaker 1: Carly, can you just explain to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about how you think stereotypes have impacted the overrepresentation of
Speaker 1: First Nations people that are currently incarcerated.
Speaker 3: I think for as long as the wider public belief
Speaker 3: give the stereotypes of Aboriginal people that are so widely
Speaker 3: disseminated through media, through incorrect discourse, that they'll support the
Speaker 3: fact that the majority of our men are in custody
Speaker 3: and the majority of our women are now the fastest
Speaker 3: rising prison population in the world. So for as long
Speaker 3: as people believe that Aboriginal people have nothing to offer
Speaker 3: other than the fact that they're drunks or they can't
Speaker 3: see anywhere else where we can fit into society. And
Speaker 3: in fact, if people actually took the time to come
Speaker 3: into community and to meet Aboriginal people for themselves, they
Speaker 3: would see that that's not who we are for the
Speaker 3: people that are engaging in that stuff coming from a
Speaker 3: deep place of hurt and trauma and no other skills
Speaker 3: to do things differently, and that's what we want to do.
Speaker 3: We're not saying that there are not challenges that we
Speaker 3: need to address, but we're saying give us the resources
Speaker 3: and tools to address them in the way that we
Speaker 3: know how and stop relying on outside people to fix
Speaker 3: the stuff that we know what's going on.
Speaker 1: In the documentary, we were shown that there were young
Speaker 1: First Nations people that were arrested and put into prison
Speaker 1: for things like, like you just said, survival crimes. They
Speaker 1: were stealing bread rolls, They had stolen thirty cents from
Speaker 1: somebody's car. And I mean, some people might say that
Speaker 1: I can't say what I'm about to say, but I
Speaker 1: can almost guarantee you a white child that stole a
Speaker 1: bread roll would not go to prison and a white
Speaker 1: child that stole thirty cents from a car would not
Speaker 1: go to prison.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I agree, And I think that's something
Speaker 3: that our community sees so often, the disparity between sentencing,
Speaker 3: where you know, we've got an Aboriginal person and a
Speaker 3: non Aboriginal person convicted of the same crime with different sentences.
Speaker 3: It's nothing new to us. But I guess what this
Speaker 3: documentary is highlighting is making that information readily available for
Speaker 3: everybody else, which we've always known.
Speaker 2: You did mention your husband earlier, and we were introduced
Speaker 2: to Keenan's story in the documentary. He shared his incredibly
Speaker 2: traumatic childhood story and how he went on to be
Speaker 2: incarcerated several times himself later in life. Can you tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about his story, what happened and
Speaker 2: also what happened in his life to break that cycle.
Speaker 2: The reason why I asked that is because the statistics
Speaker 2: around when somebody has been incarcerated, the possibility and the
Speaker 2: likelihood that they will go on to commit new crimes
Speaker 2: and be incarcerated again is so high, and it just
Speaker 2: goes to show that this is a system that isn't
Speaker 2: built on rehabilitation, but it's a system that's built on punishment,
Speaker 2: and it's obviously a system that is so incredibly flawed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think my husband's story is one of many,
Speaker 3: but a really important way to highlight the type of
Speaker 3: people who are in jails at the moment, and that's
Speaker 3: men and women, men and women who have had and
Speaker 3: this is across the board, not just for Abriiginal people.
Speaker 3: It's exacerbated for our people, but across the board, we've
Speaker 3: got men and women in custody who have got significant
Speaker 3: traumatic childhoods. And as we spoke about with intergenerational trauma,
Speaker 3: you know, it's manifesting into drug use, it's manifesting into
Speaker 3: criminal activity to support the drug use, and it sort
Speaker 3: of goes from there. So my husband grew up in
Speaker 3: a large Abiginal community in Redfern called the Block, and
Speaker 3: he lost both of his parents by the age of
Speaker 3: seven and placed into kinship care and sort of split
Speaker 3: up from his siblings because they couldn't take them all
Speaker 3: at once, so they all went to different family members.
Speaker 3: And you know, the family at the time didn't really
Speaker 3: have the skills to understand the trauma that my husband
Speaker 3: had been through, and they thought that by just giving
Speaker 3: him a house and a bed that he'd be okay,
Speaker 3: and obviously he wasn't, and he had so many other
Speaker 3: things going on and wanting to be reconnected to his brothers,
Speaker 3: and you know, as he became an adolescent, he had
Speaker 3: more questions. He had all this unresolved trauma that had
Speaker 3: never been dealt with, as many teenagers do, starts experimenting
Speaker 3: with drugs and alcohol. Wanted to go and seek out
Speaker 3: his brothers, so gravitated back towards Redfern, where there was
Speaker 3: a number of people already involved in criminal activity and
Speaker 3: drug use, and that's who he felt supported and where
Speaker 3: he felt he belonged. And he went into custody for
Speaker 3: the first time at the age of fourteen. That was
Speaker 3: for stealing a laptop from a car to be able
Speaker 3: to feed himself, to be able to clode himself, because
Speaker 3: by this time he was homeless and the people that
Speaker 3: were caring for him didn't want him in the house anymore.
Speaker 3: So he left and tried to find his brothers, and
Speaker 3: then that started his journey with the criminal justice system,
Speaker 3: and he spent more than half of his life in
Speaker 3: and out of both juvenile and adult custody. I met
Speaker 3: him in a very very short period where he was
Speaker 3: in the community for six weeks in between custodial sentences
Speaker 3: when he was still sort of unhealed and unsupported. And
Speaker 3: he returned to custody when he was twenty five and
Speaker 3: came back out when he was twenty eight. But in
Speaker 3: that time between twenty five and twenty eight he'd met me,
Speaker 3: but it had also gone into a therapeutic treatment center
Speaker 3: within custody, which was the first time that he'd been
Speaker 3: able to understand his trauma and the way that it
Speaker 3: manifested and the way that that pushed him towards criminal
Speaker 3: activity and drug use and the wrong your associations in
Speaker 3: the role modeling, and yeah, and then he decided that's
Speaker 3: not what he wanted, and from that moment on he
Speaker 3: tried to turn his offer. And it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 3: He's still on that journey.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the big things that like
Speaker 2: a lot of people have heard this saying before, but
Speaker 2: it's like, do the crime, do the time. And I
Speaker 2: think that that's a very black and white way of
Speaker 2: looking at the world when we think about that, and
Speaker 2: we think about that saying it doesn't take into account
Speaker 2: people's circumstances and the reasoning behind why these crimes are
Speaker 2: being committed. Not all crimes are committed equally. They're very
Speaker 2: very different, and if one is out of desperation, out
Speaker 2: of homelessness, out of lack of education, or out of
Speaker 2: lack of support, there should be a very different outcome
Speaker 2: in the way that we treat people other than just
Speaker 2: locking them up and punishing them, because it doesn't really
Speaker 2: deal with the root cause. It discussed a lot as well,
Speaker 2: the privatization of the justice system. How we do have
Speaker 2: private jails in Australia in the very same way that
Speaker 2: we have them in the States. And I think a
Speaker 2: lot of Australians would be aware that the States have
Speaker 2: private jails, but maybe not that Australia does.
Speaker 1: Why is that such a huge problem.
Speaker 3: Well, I think any business structure that relies on having
Speaker 3: people in cells to profit is problematic. We see it
Speaker 3: with the We call it the prison industrial complex, and
Speaker 3: it's something that's been highlighted in the US very very well.
Speaker 3: If anybody's seen the documentary thirteenth, Incarceration Nation reminds me
Speaker 3: very much of that documentary and the way that it
Speaker 3: brings everything together and shows that This is a structured
Speaker 3: way of continuing to oppress marginalized peoples and continuing to
Speaker 3: profit off marginalized peoples. When we talk about it's doing
Speaker 3: exactly what it's designed to do. It's continuing to oppress
Speaker 3: marginalized minorities. And that's what we're seeing in the strats,
Speaker 3: what we see across the globe. It's not to say
Speaker 3: that non aboriginal people don't commit crimes, look at the
Speaker 3: white collar crimes, but they're not punished in the same way.
Speaker 3: And that's what makes a difference.
Speaker 2: One big thing that I know everyone's familiar with, and
Speaker 2: that's what rocked the world was the death of George Floyd,
Speaker 2: and so many of us watch what happened in the
Speaker 2: United States were absolutely disgusted by it. We are so
Speaker 2: aware that there is racism, that there is racial discrimination,
Speaker 2: that there is an issue within the police force and
Speaker 2: within the justice system. And we kind of watched that
Speaker 2: from Australian shaw as being like God, that the States
Speaker 2: has really messed up. But what I don't think a
Speaker 2: lot of people may realize, and what I certainly didn't
Speaker 2: realize prior to watching this documentary, is that we have
Speaker 2: had a very similar and have had many similar situations
Speaker 2: to this.
Speaker 1: Happened in our own shores.
Speaker 2: And one of the stories that were sheard is the
Speaker 2: story of David Dungey, who was twenty six years old.
Speaker 2: He was in his prison cell and he was in
Speaker 2: and Use of Wales jail. He was very close to
Speaker 2: being released, only a couple of weeks away from being released,
Speaker 2: and he was in his jail cell and.
Speaker 1: He was eating biscuits.
Speaker 2: The guards asked him to stop, and he didn't, and
Speaker 2: almost just for that cheekiness, for disobeying an order that's
Speaker 2: been asked of him. He was then taken by six
Speaker 2: guards into another cell. He was sedated and his last
Speaker 2: words were also I can't breathe, over and over again.
Speaker 2: Now this happened in twenty fifteen. It's a story that
Speaker 2: I think so many Australians are just not aware of.
Speaker 2: And the question that I have is is why are
Speaker 2: we so enraged by what's happening in other countries. Why
Speaker 2: are we so angry by what's happening in the States,
Speaker 2: but we aren't even aware of what's happening in Australia.
Speaker 3: I think there's a number of factors that play there,
Speaker 3: but I mean Obviously, we've got social media now that
Speaker 3: gives us stuff in real time. So I think many
Speaker 3: many years ago that would have happened to George Floyd
Speaker 3: and we would have heard about it a week later
Speaker 3: or whenever we played catch up. But the info has
Speaker 3: always been here in Australia. Like we've had the Royal
Speaker 3: Commission to Average on destin custody thirty years ago and
Speaker 3: that made a number of recommendations that still have not
Speaker 3: been implemented. There's a number of people who are families
Speaker 3: who are fighting for justice for their loved ones who
Speaker 3: have lost their lives to the justice system. I feel
Speaker 3: like it's in people's face. It's a bit harder now
Speaker 3: to ignore because of social media and because of you know,
Speaker 3: things that are trending. Black Lives Matter was trending just
Speaker 3: after COVID last year, and the donations for Deadly Connections
Speaker 3: surged and we've never seen since we've started Deadly Connections,
Speaker 3: we've never seen donations like that any time since. There
Speaker 3: were protests that occurred across different parts of Australia and
Speaker 3: I think they were the biggest protests that we've ever
Speaker 3: had for movements like this, for social justice movements because
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the times it's easy to
Speaker 3: ignore things that don't directly affect you. And for a
Speaker 3: lot of the wider public, the criminal justice system isn't
Speaker 3: something they've ever thought about or isn't something they've ever
Speaker 3: been impacted by. But for Aboriginal people, my earliest exposure
Speaker 3: to the justice system was because my family members were incarcerated,
Speaker 3: and I remember visiting them from the age of three,
Speaker 3: four or five years old with my grandmother when I
Speaker 3: was very very young, So it's normalized for us in
Speaker 3: a way. We know that the people that are in
Speaker 3: jail are not terribly bad people. There are some people
Speaker 3: that are in jail that probably need to be there,
Speaker 3: but we know that jails aren't the answer. The reason
Speaker 3: people have to go to jail at the moment is
Speaker 3: because we don't have any other alternatives, and that's what
Speaker 3: we want to change.
Speaker 1: A huge part of this problem is that children are
Speaker 1: at the epicenter. This means that this cycle is just
Speaker 1: going to continue until we can literally break the cycle
Speaker 1: with the next generation. We're all familiar with the stolen generation.
Speaker 1: At least I hope every one of you is familiar
Speaker 1: with the stolen generation. But the fact is Indigenous children
Speaker 1: attend times more likely to be taken from their family.
Speaker 1: So Carlie, how and why is this still happening.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, all of the systems that we have
Speaker 3: in Australia, the child protection systems, the legal systems, all
Speaker 3: built off the back of England's systems. So we've got
Speaker 3: a colonial system that doesn't recognize any of the laws
Speaker 3: that Aboriginal people had prior to colonization. It also doesn't
Speaker 3: recognize any of the cultural nuances or differences across different cultures,
Speaker 3: you know, but particularly for Aboriginal people, where we have
Speaker 3: different ways of doing things. We have very big families,
Speaker 3: we have reciprocal relationships, you know, it's very different. So
Speaker 3: we're being judged by generally. If we think about a
Speaker 3: case where a child's removed, the decision to remove that
Speaker 3: child is in the hands of five or six non
Speaker 3: Aboriginal people that are bound by practices that we've inherited
Speaker 3: over the years from colonial systems, and that they don't
Speaker 3: get us. You know, they don't understand and they don't
Speaker 3: value our opinions and our knowledge of our own communities.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've had instances where we've been supporting women
Speaker 3: very well, very intensively to try and avoid child protection removals,
Speaker 3: and they've gone in and removed without even consulting us.
Speaker 3: Sometimes we work really well with them, and we've had
Speaker 3: success where we've prevented removals of newborn babies from their
Speaker 3: mums at the hospital. We've had successes. But I guess
Speaker 3: when we're not included, and when we're not considered, it
Speaker 3: just takes us back so far. But when we are included,
Speaker 3: we work well together, we're able to get good outcomes
Speaker 3: for families and for children. We don't want to see
Speaker 3: any children removed. And what the government is really really
Speaker 3: good at doing is investing in the tail end of things,
Speaker 3: so once people are offending, locking them up, once people
Speaker 3: are to the point where the child needs to get removed,
Speaker 3: spending thousands, hundreds of thousands on placing this child with
Speaker 3: a non aboriginal family, rather than resourcing the family in
Speaker 3: the way that they need to be resourced.
Speaker 2: We actually did an interview with a woman named Jess
Speaker 2: Hill recently, and Jesse works very heavily within coursive control
Speaker 2: and domestic violence, and she spoke about coercive control, and
Speaker 2: she spoke about how hugely that number of Indigenous people
Speaker 2: are affected by domestic violence within Australia. But what she
Speaker 2: mentioned is that women who may be the victims of
Speaker 2: domestic violence, the police aren't necessarily trained to deal with
Speaker 2: how those women act or how those women behave. And
Speaker 2: there have been cases where women have called for help,
Speaker 2: caught out and actually called the police to come and
Speaker 2: support them in an instance of domestic violence, but instead
Speaker 2: of receiving that support, they have been charged for other things.
Speaker 2: They have been charged for acting in a way that
Speaker 2: maybe wasn't conducive for being a victim. But I mean,
Speaker 2: who are we to say, as a victim, this is
Speaker 2: how you need to behave?
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean for Aboriginal communities in particular,
Speaker 3: we're matriarchal society, so we take our bloodlines from our mother.
Speaker 3: So when we've got a disruption to the matriarch, it's havoc.
Speaker 3: That's something that the government fails to understand. And I'm
Speaker 3: really glad you sort of brought this up because there's
Speaker 3: a lot of contention with our community around coercive control,
Speaker 3: because we don't believe that the solutions are found in
Speaker 3: more legislation, because what we're concerned about is exactly what
Speaker 3: you've said. If we're criminalizing coercive control and the police
Speaker 3: get called out there's an incident, what happens is the
Speaker 3: woman will become criminalized if the story isn't given straight
Speaker 3: and given the way it needs to be given. I
Speaker 3: think a really really good example. I mean it's not
Speaker 3: a good example. It's a heartbreaking example of the way
Speaker 3: that this work is a woman in Western Australia, Tamika Malayley.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've heard of her. Yeah, she
Speaker 3: was a victim of domestic violence, severe domestic violence. She
Speaker 3: was attacked by her partner. At the time police were called.
Speaker 3: When they presented, she was drenched in blood. A neighbor
Speaker 3: had wrapped her in a sheet. The sheet was covered
Speaker 3: in blood. When the police attended, she became She was distraught.
Speaker 3: She became aggressive with the police. She swore at them.
Speaker 3: She asked for her father. They didn't listen. They threw
Speaker 3: her into the back of a paddywagon. They arrested her.
Speaker 3: The perpetrator found her four month old baby, recovered the
Speaker 3: baby killed the baby while she was in custody. Her
Speaker 3: father was pleading with the police to help them to
Speaker 3: get the baby back because he knew that the baby
Speaker 3: was going to be harmed. They didn't listen to him.
Speaker 3: The baby died, which was heartbreaking, four month old baby Charlie.
Speaker 3: And they then charged Tamika and her father with obstruction
Speaker 3: of justice and proceeded with those charges, and I believe
Speaker 3: they were found guilty.
Speaker 1: The story of Tamika and Charlie is unbelievably horrific. And
Speaker 1: I did just mentioned Jess Hill. This is actually a
Speaker 1: really it's an interesting.
Speaker 2: Crossover for us because Jess Hill, who has a documentary,
Speaker 2: See What You Made Me Do? I know a lot
Speaker 2: of our listeners are familiar with it. We interviewed her
Speaker 2: a little while ago. Episode number two of her documentary,
Speaker 2: See What You Made Me Do, actually tells the full
Speaker 2: story of what happened that night, and it is incredibly harrowing.
Speaker 2: If anybody hasn't gone and listened to that interview that
Speaker 2: we did with Jess Hill, it's a very important and
Speaker 2: powerful conversation. In Incarceration Nation, we are also introduced to
Speaker 2: another girl who was abused in her foster homes, and
Speaker 2: there's twenty something foster homes that she bounced between after
Speaker 2: she was relocated and separated from her family. We do
Speaker 2: have a little grab from this from Incarceration Nation to
Speaker 2: play for you guys.
Speaker 6: She says an assault by a care worker when she
Speaker 6: was eleven has left her traumatized. And then he just
Speaker 6: kept on look on hit me funny ways.
Speaker 3: But I didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 5: You know, so young still, you know, and I didn't
Speaker 5: think think of it. And then yeah, he opened his
Speaker 5: legs and his flyers down, jumped up, and I went
Speaker 5: to my room then and then I was just days
Speaker 5: and off, just hit, you know.
Speaker 6: And as I was gone to sleep, he walked in
Speaker 6: the room, closed the door and does And then I
Speaker 6: just turned real heartless for a bit for a while,
Speaker 6: inges did whatever could to make good, good reason to
Speaker 6: get locked up, you know.
Speaker 2: The girl who had been interviewed says that she kept
Speaker 2: reoffending so that she could go back into custody, implying
Speaker 2: that that was a better place to be. Being in
Speaker 2: custody was better than what it was being in the
Speaker 2: foster homes that she was in. Karlie, what is the
Speaker 2: noble effect of children being removed from their parents due
Speaker 2: to them being locked up?
Speaker 3: Well, we know that for children who lose their parents
Speaker 3: to imprisonment, they have a higher likelihood of themselves being incarcerated,
Speaker 3: either as a child or an adult or both. It's
Speaker 3: perpetuating that trauma. I mean, one would have to question
Speaker 3: how much safer are these children being removed from their
Speaker 3: families instead of resourcing families with the skills and the
Speaker 3: tools that they need to look after their children. Because
Speaker 3: what we're not understanding, particularly for original people who are
Speaker 3: part of the stolen generation, who have never experienced that
Speaker 3: organic family, there's an assumption that people are born with
Speaker 3: the capacity to parent, and that's not always the case,
Speaker 3: particularly for our communities. So one would need to question
Speaker 3: why we're not investing more into the families and why
Speaker 3: we're investing into taking children like this young girl who
Speaker 3: experienced unbelievable abuse. You know, how have we kept this
Speaker 3: child safer? How is the system keeping our children safer?
Speaker 3: We know that this is not an isolated story. We've
Speaker 3: got incidences of children being removed from their families and
Speaker 3: being put in hotel rooms with twenty four hour support workers.
Speaker 3: To me, that's just insane. It's insane that we can't
Speaker 3: be paying somebody to live in home with them and
Speaker 3: give these parents the skills it's needed. We know that
Speaker 3: locking people up and removing children from their families does
Speaker 3: not work, yet we continue to do it.
Speaker 2: Why one of the big things that I think that
Speaker 2: no one could look away from, but let alone a
Speaker 2: mother watching that like the doco, was the incarceration of juveniles. Now,
Speaker 2: what the documentary explores is that there are children who
Speaker 2: have been incarcerated in our correctional facilities in Australia who
Speaker 2: have spent twenty three days straight in solitary confinement with
Speaker 2: only being allowed less than an hour outside of their
Speaker 2: tiny little cell, and that isn't even in natural daylight.
Speaker 2: There were also children who have been very violently strip
Speaker 2: searched by correctional guards and some of the footage is
Speaker 2: just harrowing. Karli, how is this happening and how has
Speaker 2: this been happening for so long? And nobody, well, I
Speaker 2: shouldn't say nobody. I know a lot of people are
Speaker 2: very very angry about it. But why aren't more people
Speaker 2: aware of this? Because I feel like if the general
Speaker 2: population was aware of it, there would be public outcry.
Speaker 3: I think racism in Australia plays a really big part.
Speaker 3: All you have to do is get on a post
Speaker 3: on social media where somebody's posted something outrageous, the assault
Speaker 3: of a child in custody or whatever it is, and
Speaker 3: then you see all the people on there justifying that
Speaker 3: behavior and that treatment of that child. We see a
Speaker 3: young person in the documentary, it looks like he's vandalizing
Speaker 3: the center. He's just come out of a period of
Speaker 3: solitary confinement, and that's what the media will go, these
Speaker 3: are the people that are being locked up. Look at
Speaker 3: his behavior, but not giving the context to what's led
Speaker 3: to him behaving like that. The way that we talk
Speaker 3: about the work with young people in Deadly Connections is
Speaker 3: we don't have bad kids. We have hurt kids. A
Speaker 3: lot of the kids that are in prison, similar to
Speaker 3: the adults, come from traumatic backgrounds, and their behavior is
Speaker 3: a manifestation of their trauma and their disadvantage. And until
Speaker 3: we deal with that, we're going to continue to have
Speaker 3: these issues. And they're not bad kids, they just need support.
Speaker 2: This or just leads back what we were saying earlier
Speaker 2: about how incarcerating people. That we know that when someone
Speaker 2: has been incarcerated, the probability of them being incarcerated a
Speaker 2: second time increases, and especially when we see these children
Speaker 2: and the footage that you were referring to, Krli, For
Speaker 2: anybody who hasn't seen the docer yet, it is this
Speaker 2: fourteen year old boy. He has spent twenty three days.
Speaker 2: This is the boy that I was referring to, is
Speaker 2: twenty three days in solitary confinement inside a room that
Speaker 2: is about three and a half meters by two meters.
Speaker 2: Anybody who spent that long without any natural daylight. He
Speaker 2: didn't know what time of day it was, He didn't
Speaker 2: know night from day anymore. One of the guards actually
Speaker 2: didn't lock his cell and he got out into a
Speaker 2: more common area, and that's when he vandalized the common area.
Speaker 2: And as a punishment for that, all the boys that
Speaker 2: were in the cell, there were six of them, were
Speaker 2: tear gased in short range. And now this is I
Speaker 2: think tear gas is very different to pepys rage us,
Speaker 2: so people are aware of the significance of it and
Speaker 2: the pain that that inflicts. But that was the punishment,
Speaker 2: and that I agree with you, Carli. I think if
Speaker 2: you saw that out of context, just saw that footage,
Speaker 2: you would be like, that kid's out of control.
Speaker 1: He deserved it.
Speaker 3: Needs to be in there's yeah, but that's not the case.
Speaker 3: That was the hardest thing for me to watch the
Speaker 3: treatment of the kids in that movie, and it was
Speaker 3: just like we know it, we see it, but seeing
Speaker 3: it like bang bang bang, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is what people need to see, Like it's so traumatizing,
Speaker 3: but it's what people need to see. And the other
Speaker 3: thing is, you know, we're not we're not seeing this
Speaker 3: treatment with non Aboriginal kids. At some point last year,
Speaker 3: I believe when the Black Lives Matter protests were happening,
Speaker 3: one hundred percent of the young people in custody in
Speaker 3: the Northern Territory were Aboriginal one hundred percent. Let's let
Speaker 3: that sink in for a minute. Nowhere else does that
Speaker 3: happen with any other cultural identity, Nowhere else? And if
Speaker 3: we had non Aboriginal children being treated like this, they'd
Speaker 3: be outrage. And that's why I say, you know, Australia
Speaker 3: does a really good job at othering and making sure
Speaker 3: that people see Aboriginal people as less than human. And
Speaker 3: that's what allows people to permit this behavior to go
Speaker 3: on as not seeing this as their own children because
Speaker 3: they're Aboriginal children. It's different. They're not white children, They're
Speaker 3: not my children. And when we talk about children and
Speaker 3: raising the age, we say not my children, not your children,
Speaker 3: but our children, because they're everyone's children.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us? Because there are communities that have
Speaker 1: implemented successful strategies to help indigenous communities, they're based on
Speaker 1: things like less policing and more support. What is the solution?
Speaker 1: What are you pushing to be put in place to
Speaker 1: break this cycle?
Speaker 3: Well, we need structural change. First of all. If you
Speaker 3: look at the budgets of the justice expenditure, it's like
Speaker 3: ten billion dollars for New South Wales alone. It's crazy
Speaker 3: money being put into this disruptive violence system that continues
Speaker 3: to perpetuate harm on people who who are already harmed.
Speaker 3: So community led solutions for us is the big one,
Speaker 3: and it's also incorporating transformative justice. So we in deadly
Speaker 3: connections we talk about transformative justice, which is one layer
Speaker 3: above restorative justice. So to me, if I can explain it,
Speaker 3: as you know you've had your bike stolen, for example,
Speaker 3: restorative justice would be I've stolen your bike, we get together,
Speaker 3: I apologize for stealing your bike. You get your bike
Speaker 3: back that's what happens. Transformative justice is that still happens,
Speaker 3: but then we try to understand why did I steal
Speaker 3: your bike in the first place? What would have stopped
Speaker 3: me from stealing your bike? Did I steal your bike
Speaker 3: because I was hungry? Did I steal your bike because
Speaker 3: I was bored? Why did I steal your bike? And
Speaker 3: then we can put solutions in place to stop that
Speaker 3: from happening again. That's what transformative justice is. Alternatives to imprisonment,
Speaker 3: diversionary programs, things that we know, healing houses, you know.
Speaker 3: Deadly Connections wants to start a healing house for people
Speaker 3: who were justice involved with child protection as well, whether
Speaker 3: that's as children or as adults, you know, but we
Speaker 3: lack the resources to do it.
Speaker 2: I'm conscious about how to frame this because I know
Speaker 2: that it is a perception that I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people in Australia have and it is what adds
Speaker 2: to racism in Australia. But there is a thought. You
Speaker 2: see it in social media, you see it in the
Speaker 2: comments section. It's the comment of like, we have so
Speaker 2: many support systems in regards to like you can get funding,
Speaker 2: like they're on benefits. I think that there is this mentality, well,
Speaker 2: you can get money from the government, so there's already
Speaker 2: things in place. Why is that such an incorrect thought
Speaker 2: that people have. Why is that so flawed and completely
Speaker 2: unhelpful to the actual situation at hand.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the information that the wider
Speaker 3: public get comes from media or comes from people who
Speaker 3: just don't know. Abitginal people are three percent of the population,
Speaker 3: So we are trying to convince ninety seven percent of
Speaker 3: the population that the way that we're being treated is
Speaker 3: not okay. That's not easy. There's not a lot of
Speaker 3: people that can go to Aboriginal people or communities and
Speaker 3: say is this the case. There was a recent clip
Speaker 3: that I put on on our Socials where Senator Lydia
Speaker 3: Thorpe was questioning the government on their expenditure under the
Speaker 3: Indigenous Advancement Strategy, which is supposed to be for Aboriginal communities,
Speaker 3: and they'd given away over a billion dollars to large
Speaker 3: corporations like Crown, Casino, Woolworths for Aboriginal employment programs. So
Speaker 3: this is why people think that Aboriginal people get so
Speaker 3: much funding. The funding is directed towards Aboriginal people, but
Speaker 3: it's been given to non Aboriginal corporations and organizations to
Speaker 3: do the work, and it doesn't work because they're not
Speaker 3: equipped to work with our communities. Aboriginal people don't get
Speaker 3: any more benefits than any other group who require support.
Speaker 3: We've got different names for things, but we've got abs, study,
Speaker 3: we've got odds study. The amounts are the same. Nobody
Speaker 3: get you know, we don't get free houses. We don't
Speaker 3: get free cars. If we do, I'd like to know
Speaker 3: where they are because nobody that I know gets them.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Also this idea that like and I think that this
Speaker 2: is something that a lot of people don't think about,
Speaker 2: like true poverty, what true poverty looks like. If you
Speaker 2: don't have a tax file number, if you don't have
Speaker 2: a birth certificate, you don't get serviced. You slip through
Speaker 2: those cracks. Now this is relative to Indigenous people and
Speaker 2: to non Indigenous people, but there is a gap in
Speaker 2: our system which doesn't cater for the people who are
Speaker 2: the most vulnerable because they do not have the ability
Speaker 2: or the services to be able to access what is
Speaker 2: available or not even necessarily just having Wi Fi and
Speaker 2: a computer where you can go cool. I'm going to
Speaker 2: jump on and get onto my GV.
Speaker 3: And that's a really good point, Laura, because that's all
Speaker 3: part of systemic racism as well. It all contributes to
Speaker 3: that belief where it separates us from them. It's like
Speaker 3: Aboriginal people have been given a fair chance, you know,
Speaker 3: they've got so much money poured at them. We've got
Speaker 3: a denial of the Prime Minister that there was slavery
Speaker 3: when we know that Aboriginal people were not paid wages
Speaker 3: and their wages were withheld from them, and there's many
Speaker 3: families and communities who are still battling to this day
Speaker 3: to recover those wages for their loved ones. We haven't
Speaker 3: had the opportunity to participate in the economy the way
Speaker 3: that everybody else has. Even still now we've got people
Speaker 3: being released, like you said, no birth certificate, no tax
Speaker 3: one number. You can't even get center link if you
Speaker 3: don't have those documents, like you can't even get benefits.
Speaker 3: And we're seeing this problem as well with the refugees
Speaker 3: now as well, where if you're not an Australian citizen
Speaker 3: you can't access support. These systems that are set up
Speaker 3: to help vulnerable people further disenfranchise them and even when
Speaker 3: we think about people coming out of custody, something that
Speaker 3: Deadly Connections advocates for quite strongly is giving people employment opportunities.
Speaker 3: If we've got people coming out of custody with no
Speaker 3: opportunity to get a job, they're left with two options
Speaker 3: welfare dependency or reoffending. That's it, and people don't think
Speaker 3: of it that way. I mean part of our journey
Speaker 3: with my husband Deny, part of Deadly Connections as well,
Speaker 3: is giving people with criminal records an opportunity. Every single
Speaker 3: person that works for Deadly Connections has lived experience of
Speaker 3: some sort. We employ both Aboriginal and non Aboriginal people.
Speaker 3: We've got two non Aboriginal people working with us at
Speaker 3: the moment, both of them have experience, have been to jail,
Speaker 3: and we've also got an Aboriginal woman who has lived
Speaker 3: experience with the child protection and the justice system. So
Speaker 3: for us being able to give people opportunities like that,
Speaker 3: we know employment is more than just a job for
Speaker 3: a lot of those people.
Speaker 1: It's so easy for someone to sit back and say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: they didn't even go and get a job. They got out,
Speaker 1: they got given another chance, they didn't go get a job.
Speaker 1: If you physically, Like if everyone just thinks about this
Speaker 1: for a moment, now you've just been and like your
Speaker 1: husband said in his story when he was telling his story,
Speaker 1: he said, they opened the gates when it was time
Speaker 1: for me to be released, and they said, off you go,
Speaker 1: and that was it. Imagine standing there with no phone.
Speaker 1: You want to go and do the right thing. But
Speaker 1: how are you supposed to eat? How are you supposed
Speaker 1: to get a job, How do you get to the job,
Speaker 1: How do you find the job? You don't have internet access,
Speaker 1: you don't have a roof over your head. And I
Speaker 1: think that's really easy for us to forget. But I
Speaker 1: think if you put yourself in this position, and if
Speaker 1: everyone goes and watches this documentary, it really is eye opening.
Speaker 1: So do you think that they're the things that we
Speaker 1: should be putting this money back into?
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean everything that you've touched them.
Speaker 3: I think it's sort of worth acknowledging that change happens
Speaker 3: at different parts of people's lives, depending on where they're at. So,
Speaker 3: you know, something that a lot of people get caught
Speaker 3: up on is advocating for support for young people. But
Speaker 3: my husband didn't make those changes until he was in
Speaker 3: his mid twenties, and if he didn't have those supports available,
Speaker 3: then what would have happened. He would have gone back
Speaker 3: to what he knew how to do, and that was
Speaker 3: to support himself through crime. They were the skills that
Speaker 3: he had, They were the tools that he had in
Speaker 3: his toolbox. So the aim for us is to give
Speaker 3: people different tools, different skills, and different ways of doing
Speaker 3: things which some of them have never had the opportunity
Speaker 3: to do. And this is why we need to continue
Speaker 3: that journey. We need to provide other alternatives like healing
Speaker 3: houses where people can come and learn the skills that
Speaker 3: they need to be the best parent they can be,
Speaker 3: to be a pro social member of society, and to
Speaker 3: be able to heal the trauma and the factors that
Speaker 3: keep them entrenched in the justice and child protection systems.
Speaker 1: As someone who is not Indigenous, what can we do
Speaker 1: to better support our community and better to support that
Speaker 1: three percent when we are the majority percentage in Australia.
Speaker 3: There's many things that you can do. Taking action comes
Speaker 3: in many forms, So we don't expect to be everyone
Speaker 3: to be on the streets protesting, because you know your
Speaker 3: support can come in many ways, but becoming an accomplice.
Speaker 3: And we use the word accomplice rather than ally because
Speaker 3: we feel like an ally is sort of someone who's
Speaker 3: standing beside you. But we want someone who's going to
Speaker 3: get their hands dirty and who's going to get into it.
Speaker 3: And that could be you know, writing to Parliament and
Speaker 3: demanding change, or writing to your local member and asking
Speaker 3: them to raise age or to change the legislation that
Speaker 3: we know entrenches our people in the system. You could
Speaker 3: also support community led solutions, whether that's locally or whether
Speaker 3: that's Deadly Connections. There are lots of Aboriginal community control
Speaker 3: organizations operating across Australia doing the work, the grassroots work
Speaker 3: that needs to be done. A lot of echoes similar
Speaker 3: to Deadly Connections, don't have any funding challenging racism and
Speaker 3: stereotypes amongst your peers or amongst your families or amongst
Speaker 3: your colleagues. Supporting our journey to try and get a
Speaker 3: healing house. Because I know who I'd rather be living
Speaker 3: next to. I'd rather be living next to somebody that's
Speaker 3: had the opportunity to address their issues or their challenges.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be living next to somebody who's
Speaker 3: done twenty years in jail and they've opened the gate
Speaker 3: and just spat them out, because we know what kind
Speaker 3: of people that that creates. The other thing is volunteer
Speaker 3: with Aboriginal community controlled organizations. Donate your time, donate your resources.
Speaker 3: I mean, for Deadly Connections, we're so under resource at
Speaker 3: the moment. I'm hate JR. I'm social Media, I'm the
Speaker 3: communications them. My husband sort of does you know partnerships
Speaker 3: and marketing and everything that we have done. We've had
Speaker 3: to learn ourselves and there are so many people that
Speaker 3: have got expertise that they could lend to us. And
Speaker 3: promoting our work through podcasts like this and through our socials,
Speaker 3: spreading the message about what we're doing and changing the narrative.
Speaker 3: Changing the narrative is the biggest thing, because, like I said,
Speaker 3: we're three percent of the population trying to convince ninety
Speaker 3: seven percent of the population that's happening. What's happening isn't right.
Speaker 2: Carl, thank you so much for giving us your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for all of your work, not
Speaker 2: just with Deadly Connections, but with put in together this documentary. Guys,
Speaker 2: if you have not seen Incarceration Nation, it was out
Speaker 2: on SBS on Sunday night, but you can go and
Speaker 2: watch it. I think that you will feel the same
Speaker 2: as Britt and I did. And you know, we're really
Speaker 2: proud to be able to sit down and talk to you, Carlie,
Speaker 2: and thank you for everything that you were doing. Can
Speaker 2: you please tell all of the listeners where they can
Speaker 2: find you, and also how they can access more information
Speaker 2: about Deadly Connections and get involved if there is a
Speaker 2: way that they can help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much again for having me, and
Speaker 3: thank you for taking an interest in such an important
Speaker 3: topic and you know, trying to create change. It's really
Speaker 3: important to us. We have a website which you can
Speaker 3: find out more information is www dot deadly connections dot
Speaker 3: org dot au. We also have an Instagram page at
Speaker 3: Deadly Connections, same as Facebook at Deadly Connections, and we
Speaker 3: have a Twitter account which is at Deadly ccajs.
Speaker 1: Calie.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. You have been such a wonderful
Speaker 2: person to interview. It's such a hard conversation to have,
Speaker 2: but it's such an important one, and so thank you
Speaker 2: so much for giving us your time today. I've learned
Speaker 2: so much and I hope all of you guys can
Speaker 2: take the time to go and watching Carceration Nation, also
Speaker 2: because I know that it'll touch you as much as
Speaker 2: it touched.
Speaker 1: Laura and myself. Carlie, thank you for coming and we'll
Speaker 1: chat to you soon.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks Brittany, Thanks Laura. Bye.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, you know that we never finish an
Speaker 2: episode without our sucket and now Sweet, our highlight and
Speaker 2: our low light of.
Speaker 1: Each and every week.
Speaker 2: Pretty hit me, you are living a much more sensational
Speaker 2: life than me at the moment.
Speaker 1: What is your highlight and your low light? I definitely
Speaker 1: am I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, it's not even one of those things
Speaker 2: where you can feel bad by saying that because you're like,
Speaker 2: your life sucks.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for you. No, that's the hard thing. I
Speaker 1: actually feel fucking horrendous. I just saw so much, but
Speaker 1: it's so hard for me to, like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say what I'm doing because I feel so horrible
Speaker 1: for all of you at home. But you know, we
Speaker 1: do have to do sucking sweet, So I'm going to
Speaker 1: find one. Stuck it off. Yeah, so suck it up.
Speaker 1: My suite for the week is that it is the
Speaker 1: US Open Tennis tournament. Obviously, it's one of the biggest
Speaker 1: tennis tournaments. It's very exciting to be here. And Jordan
Speaker 1: is playing today, so Tuesday, he's playing today. So send
Speaker 1: all your well wishes my way. Sorry, not my way,
Speaker 1: Jordan's way. I'm irrelevant. Send them to Jordan. My suck
Speaker 1: is because it's the US Open here and it's such
Speaker 1: a big competition. There's only four of these Grand Slams
Speaker 1: a year. I am sleeping in a separate bed to Jordan.
Speaker 1: So we're here together where we're together for a we're
Speaker 1: together for a small amount of the year, and he's
Speaker 1: kicked me out. He's well, I mean, okay, he didn't
Speaker 1: kick me out. I was trying to do this like
Speaker 1: reverse psychology thing where I was trying to be like
Speaker 1: the really good supportive girlfriend. I know he needs a
Speaker 1: lot of sleep and I don't want to interrupt that,
Speaker 1: so I was like, hey, love, like, do you want
Speaker 1: me to just like sleep in the other room, you know,
Speaker 1: just give you the space that you need so get
Speaker 1: a really good sleep. Reverse psychology. I was thinking he
Speaker 1: would say, no, I want to see with you. He's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that would be amazing. I was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck. I was like, that was not how
Speaker 1: this conversation went in my head.
Speaker 2: Brittany sleeping in a hotel down the road, and she's like,
Speaker 2: I swear my relationships, fine, everything's great.
Speaker 1: So I'm in another room, not even another bed in
Speaker 1: the same room. I'm in a whole nother room. I've
Speaker 1: got a whole nother bathroom. So I feel like we're
Speaker 1: living this separate life at the moment. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's more important for him to be able to sleep
Speaker 1: well and play well. So that's my suck and that's
Speaker 1: my sweet I understand it.
Speaker 2: I understand where like couples get into their forties fifty
Speaker 2: sixties and sometimes decide to have this different bedroom and
Speaker 2: they're like, fuck off, Well I wake up in the morning,
Speaker 2: I wake up right because I'm like, he sleeps in
Speaker 2: so I can't wake him up in the morning night,
Speaker 2: so I just have to bide my time on start
Speaker 2: doing some work in bed until I finally hear, like
Speaker 2: all the way down the corridor, this really soft noise.
Speaker 2: I hear cutie, and then I know that's like my alarm,
Speaker 2: and then I'm allowed to.
Speaker 1: Enter the room.
Speaker 2: He's of a different breed, I think when you're a
Speaker 2: professional sports person, like, especially when you're in the key
Speaker 2: part of your competition, I guess you can be a
Speaker 2: little bit selfish. You could be like, totally, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: sleep down the other end of the house and do
Speaker 2: not disturb me.
Speaker 1: Just come and have sex with me and leave. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm looking loving it, to be honest. What's your suck
Speaker 1: and suite?
Speaker 2: Okay, my suck for the week is the wedding. I
Speaker 2: don't think I can pop that one right now. So
Speaker 2: I know we've said this a couple of times, but
Speaker 2: the current state of the situation is this idea that
Speaker 2: you can't get excited about things anymore. You know that
Speaker 2: there's not really the potential to like book something in
Speaker 2: and then look forward to the future. I think at
Speaker 2: the moment, it's just this groundhog day, and that's probably
Speaker 2: the best way of describing it. It just everything feels
Speaker 2: very gray and we're kind of doing the same thing
Speaker 2: every day, and that's definitely been my suck is like
Speaker 2: missing out on things that six months ago I was
Speaker 2: so looking forward to.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you know, I want to see my mom.
Speaker 1: Everybody's in the same boat.
Speaker 2: I know you guys all feel the same, and this
Speaker 2: is it's very galvanizing that I think we collectively are
Speaker 2: all experiencing this and we all have the same feelings
Speaker 2: towards this my sweet.
Speaker 1: For the week.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know what, it's the little things
Speaker 2: I've mentioned at the start that like I went to
Speaker 2: the park with the kids. I know that that doesn't
Speaker 2: sound exciting, but like I.
Speaker 1: Took Molly and Laula. We went to Centennial Park.
Speaker 2: We went bush like, we went right off into like
Speaker 2: where it's overgrown and foliage, and I just wanted to
Speaker 2: get away from the people and just be able to
Speaker 2: walk around with the kids and have a nice time
Speaker 2: outside out of our apartment. And it meant the world
Speaker 2: to have these little moments to be able to look
Speaker 2: forward to. And that was like, by far, I didn't
Speaker 2: take my phone. It was by far the highlight of
Speaker 2: my week.
Speaker 1: But what you just said, I just want to like
Speaker 1: pull you up on that for a hot little second
Speaker 1: when you say, I know it's not that big of
Speaker 1: a dealer. I know it's not that exciting a it
Speaker 1: is b But that's exactly what suck and Sweet's about.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be this big, extravagant moment. It's
Speaker 1: just something that's special in your life. And that's why
Speaker 1: we encourage all you guys to do this at home too,
Speaker 1: when you're at dinner with your family or with your flatmates,
Speaker 1: just ask each other, what's your stuck on your sweet
Speaker 1: what's the best thing in the littlest thing. It's just
Speaker 1: a it's a way to be grateful for what you've got,
Speaker 1: it's a way to reflect on what you've got, and
Speaker 1: it's a way to just enjoy all the little moments
Speaker 1: exactly like you to said Laura, and I really think
Speaker 1: like in saying that, if you're in the same situation
Speaker 1: that we're in, if you're in lockdown, if you're fear
Speaker 1: feeling like it's groundhole day, if you're feeling all the
Speaker 1: things that I've just described, like carving out a little
Speaker 1: bit of time for yourself, whatever it is. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: reading your favorite book, maybe it's, you know, watching four
Speaker 1: episodes in a row of that TV show that you love,
Speaker 1: Like whatever self care looks like, maybe it is spending
Speaker 1: some time with your kids and getting out of the
Speaker 1: house in a way that's safe obviously, but just like
Speaker 1: going and doing something that's really special, quality time to
Speaker 1: break up the monotony. Like for me, I know that
Speaker 1: I find it really easy just to get into a
Speaker 1: cycle of work, work, work, and then because I'm constantly
Speaker 1: around my laptop and I'm not really engaged with my children.
Speaker 1: And I had a real awakening this week where I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to spend this really precious
Speaker 1: time with them always with my head in my phone.
Speaker 1: And Moley's gotten too an age now where she will
Speaker 1: say no phone mummy, no phone mummy, and oh that's tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it just I had a real week where I
Speaker 1: was like, I want to make some changes so that
Speaker 1: I don't have to hear my child say no phone
Speaker 1: mummy anymore. So, yeah, that was big, a big shift
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: And I just want everyone who's in this situation to
Speaker 2: know that, like, we are thinking of you, and we
Speaker 2: hope that we are bringing you content that for some
Speaker 2: you know, I know today's episode was really heavy, but
Speaker 2: we really are trying to bring you a lot of escapisms.
Speaker 2: I hope that you're enjoying the batch on cut. I
Speaker 2: hope you're enjoying all the bonus episodes that we're putting together.
Speaker 2: All of this is because we know that you guys
Speaker 2: are at home and we just hope that it can
Speaker 2: bring a little smile to your face.
Speaker 1: And on that note, guys, that is it from us,
Speaker 1: So you know the drill. Please send your accidentally unfilters,
Speaker 1: end your ask uncuts to our Instagram, which is Life
Speaker 1: Uncut Podcast. Just make sure you label them ask uncut
Speaker 1: if it's a question or accidently unfiltered, if it's one
Speaker 1: of your funny fuck ups. Because we love hearing that,
Speaker 1: we really really, I can't stress enough, please write that
Speaker 1: shit in. Also, if there's anything that's funny that has
Speaker 1: happened to you or we remember we used to do.
Speaker 1: I can't believe they said that. We want to hear
Speaker 1: about anything that is happening in your life. And all
Speaker 1: the good, juicy, great shit goes down in our Facebook
Speaker 1: discussion group. So if you're not a member of that yet,
Speaker 1: that is on Facebook and that is Life Uncut Podcast.
Speaker 2: And anyway, guys, you know the drill. Tell your mum,
Speaker 2: tell your dad, tell your dog, Tell your sister and
Speaker 2: your brother, and your uncle and your cousin and the
Speaker 2: cheek down the road, and maybe your friend who's in
Speaker 2: a really shitty ass toxic relationship and she needs a
Speaker 2: bit of hard love and soft love from life on
Speaker 2: card and chave a laugh because we will.
Speaker 1: Okay, I totally, I totally fucking whispered that because it's
Speaker 1: two AM and jawns to sleep, and I was like,
Speaker 1: love love, I love it so much, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be crucified in the morning. I brought the enthusiasm for
Speaker 1: you to a