1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: The dalyi os oh, now it makes sense. Good morning 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: and welcome to the Daily ODS. It's one day, the 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: first of December. I'm Lucy Tassel. 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm Zara Seidler. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: It's been more than two and a half years since 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: war broke out in Sadan between rival militias. Since then, 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: twelve million people have fled their homes, thousands have been killed, 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: and international authorities have made accusations of war crimes and genocide. 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: Last week, one side said it had implemented a humanitarian truce, 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: while the other rejected a US and United Arab Emirates 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: led to ceasefire proposal. In today's episode, we explained the 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: progress of ceasefy negotiations and why one side of this 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: war is against the proposal. 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: Lucy, there is a lot to explain about this conflict, 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: and you've just mentioned at the top there that we're 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: talking about a possible cease fire. To understand that latest development, though, 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: we do need to understand the context of this conflict 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: that has been going on for years now. Can you 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: start at the beginning For our listeners, where did this begin? 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: For those who haven't been following or maybe just need 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: a refresher. Sudan has been engulfed in violent conflict since 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: April twenty twenty three. That's when a fragile partnership between 24 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: the leaders of two different militias fell apart. There are 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: two main initialisms you need to know here. There's the 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: SAF and the RSF. 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: What did those stand for? 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: The RSF stands for Rapid Support Forces. That's a paramilitary 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: group formed from previous paramilitaries active in a western region 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: of Sudan called Dafur. The RSF was established by the 31 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: former leader of Sudan, Omar al Bashir, and he is 32 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: actually wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: and genocide in Darfur in the two thousands. The other 34 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: one we need to know is the SAF. That's the 35 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: Sudanese Armed Forces and that is the official army of Sudan. 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, the SAF and the RSF teamed up 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: to overthrow Albasha. Democratic elections were supposed to follow, but 38 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: they didn't because the SAF and the RSF overthrew the 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: existing government and took power completely in twenty twenty one, 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: so they were back to back coups. In April twenty 41 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: twenty three, that partnership fell apart, as I've said, resulting 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: in the ongoing violent conflict between these two groups as 43 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: we speak. As of right now, the RSF controls the southwest. 44 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: Remember I said they had come from those militias in 45 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: the west, and the SAF controls the southeast. That's also 46 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: where Sudan's capital, Khartoum is. 47 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So we've got these two groups who control different 48 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: areas of the country. They've been at war for over 49 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: two years now. What's been the human costs? We're talking 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: about a war and a very large country that's been 51 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: at war for so long. What do we understand about 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: what this has been like for the Sudanese people. 53 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: The term used is humanitarian crisis. It almost kind of 54 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: doesn't feel big enough to encompass what's been happening. The 55 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 2: UN has not provided a death toll, though estimates put 56 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: the toll as high as one hundred and fifty thousand, 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: but it's quite difficult to know. 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: Can I just jump in here, Lucy, because off Mike, 59 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: I was asking you about why it is that the 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: UN can't give us a death toll, because we've seen 61 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: in other conflicts that the UN has been able to. 62 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: Can you just run our listeners through what you explain 63 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: to me here? 64 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: My analysis suggests that there isn't the same level of 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: infrastructure in Sudan that would allow the UN or other 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: bodies to understand the scale. Reports that I've read are 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: looking at things like aerial satellite footage to determine it's 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: quite grim, but like to determine bodies on the ground 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: to determine how many people have been killed by say 70 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: the RSF in the city of El Fashia. So there's 71 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: not the same level of infrastructure that we might see 72 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: in other wars where we would know, like there's a 73 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: group on the ground that is in contact with all 74 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: the hospitals and it's keeping tabs on the death toll. 75 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, that is not happening 76 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: in Sudan, and things are at a very extreme point. 77 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: Things were not necessarily great before this started and have deteriorated. 78 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so what do we understand about the death toll? 79 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: What it's estimated to be then? 80 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, So one estimate I read was one hundred and 81 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: fifty thousand, but it's really quite difficult to know. There 82 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: were some estimates from the end of last year around 83 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 2: sixty thousand, but again it's really yeah unknown currently numbers 84 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: we do know twenty one point two million people. That's 85 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: the number experiencing a cute food insecurity and famine has 86 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: also been declared in two cities. In July twenty twenty five, 87 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: the Migration Policy Institute found the violence had forced at 88 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: least twelve million people from their homes. Some of the 89 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: people who fled the country had originally come to Sudan 90 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: as refugees themselves and have since had to find a 91 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: third place to go or even gone back to their homes. 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: That's again according to the Migration Policy Institute. 93 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: So while there is a lot that we don't know, 94 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: what has become clear is that there is a humanitarian 95 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: crisis unfolding in Sudan. One of the things that I've 96 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: read reported quite a bit is accusations of genocide and 97 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: also of ethnic cleansing. What can you tell me about Firstly, 98 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: who's leveling those accusations and secondly, I guess what are they? 99 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: These accusations are coming both from groups within Sudan and 100 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: they're also coming from international observers, and mainly these accusations 101 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: have been leveled at the rsf Okay, So to just 102 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: explain for the audience, genocide and ethnic cleansing are similar crimes, 103 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: but they have different definitions. Genocide under international law is 104 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: defined as killing members of a national, ethnic, racial, or 105 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: religious group or making their survival impossible, and then UN 106 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: experts have said ethnic cleansing is removing members of an 107 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: ethnic or religious group from an area by quote violent 108 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: or terror inspiring means. In terms of ramifications for these allegations, 109 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: International Criminal courte Deputy Prosecutor Nazat Shamin Khan said her 110 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: team earlier this year, she said, is actively gathering evidence 111 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: of war crimes in Sudan. In comments to the UN 112 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 2: Security Council in July, she said the humanitarian situation in 113 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: Sudan had reached quote an intolerable state. She added, quote hospitals, 114 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: humanitarian convoys and other billion objects are apparently being targeted. 115 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 2: Famine is escalating and humanitarian aid is not reaching those 116 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 2: in dire need of it. Rape and sexual violence are 117 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: being weaponized. 118 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: Lucy, you said there that she is gathering evidence, Does 119 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: that mean then that they will seek they being the ICC, 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: will seek to take people to trial because we know 121 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: the ICC is about people whereas the ICJ is about states. 122 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: So are we looking at people then being taken to trial? 123 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: Yes, eventually, though I will note that, as I said earlier, 124 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: the ICC still can't hold a trial for previous dictator 125 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: Omar Albasher over crimes dating back to two thousand and 126 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: two because they don't try people in absentia. That is, 127 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: they don't try people who aren't physically present and international 128 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: trials as we've explained before, and this podcast can take 129 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: a really any time yep to come to fruition. 130 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: So we run through what the latest is on the 131 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: ground in Sudan. The context behind this current conflict is 132 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: you did start by mentioning a ceasefire though, so can 133 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: we just go back to that now? What is the 134 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: state of play with a ceasefire? 135 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: Back in September, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the US, and the 136 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: United Arab Emirates all proposed a ceasefire plan for Sudan. 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: We don't have exact details, but the group did release 138 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: a statement outlining some of their ideas, including starting with 139 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: a three month truce to allow quote the swift entry 140 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 2: of humanitarian aid that would then be followed by a 141 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: permanent ceasefire The statement said, Sudan's future government is quote 142 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: for the Sudanese people to decide, not controlled by any 143 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: warring party, So that would be the SAF and the RSF. 144 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: That's one point that has been contentious for the SAF 145 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: who said this plan would quote eliminate them and keep 146 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: the RSF quote in its positions. In terms of Sudan's government, 147 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: currently it's being run by the SAF, as I said before, 148 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: they are technically the official army, while the RSF is 149 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: in the process of setting up a rival government. 150 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: Right, So, I mean, how would that work to have 151 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: an existing government a rival government. There has been this 152 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,479 Speaker 1: power struggle that has been so violent for so many years. 153 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: How would that even work. 154 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: There's a couple of examples we can point to in 155 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: the world. I mean, hypothetically, we could have an East 156 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 2: Germany West Germany situation where there's two the country splits 157 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: in two, and S'dan has already split into Sudan and 158 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: South Sudan. But there's also a different example, literally right 159 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 2: next door to Sudan on its northwestern border, and that's Libya. 160 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: So since twenty fourteen, there have been two governments in Libya, 161 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: two parallel governments, one in the east and one in 162 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: the west. That also is a situation that arose out 163 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: of a war, a civil war. Only the government in 164 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: the West, based in the city of Tripoli, is recognized 165 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: by international governments, so places like Australia, I means other 166 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: countries only do business and only engage in diplomatic talks 167 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: with the Tripoli government, which is backed by the UN. 168 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: And you've asked how it would work, not particularly well. 169 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: I would say there have been many attempts at reconciling 170 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: the two sides, none of them have yet been successful, 171 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: and the fact that other countries don't recognize the Eastern 172 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: government limits what it's able to do. That could happen 173 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: in Sudan assuming neither side can agree on the ceasefire proposal, 174 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: which has some other points of contention too, And I 175 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: would say the main one relates to the United Arab 176 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: Emirates or the UAE. 177 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because I have been 178 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: wanting to ask you because it does feel like I mean, 179 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: certainly when we've uploaded posts in the past, there have 180 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: been a lot of comments about the UAE and the 181 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: role of the UAE. Why is the UAE so controversial 182 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to this conflict in particular. 183 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and people are right to point this out. The 184 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 2: UAE has been accused by many places, particularly the SAF 185 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: of supplying weapons to the RSF. It has denied these allegations, 186 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: but I will say international observers have documented the movement 187 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: of weapons on planes from the UAE to an airport 188 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: in the country of Chad which is near the border 189 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: with Sudan, to the RSF to their training camps. And 190 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: that includes weapons from Europe that have somehow come through 191 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 2: the UAE. 192 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: And just to jump in here, So it's the RSF 193 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: who have had genocide allegations leveled at them, and there 194 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: have been international observers who have documented the movement of 195 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: weapons to that group. Yeah, yeah, Okay. 196 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: Back in March, Sudan sued the UAE in the International 197 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: Court of Justice, the ICJ. So, as you said, different 198 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: to the icc alleging it provided quote unlimited support to 199 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: the RSF, enabling the group to perpetrate quote genocide, forcible 200 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: displacement and murder. 201 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: What happened in that ICJ case, So. 202 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: The ICJ actually throughout Sudan's case, saying that while it 203 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: was quote deeply concerned by the conflict, it didn't actually 204 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: have the power to hear the case, which was a 205 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: very interesting nuance of international law here. So the UAE 206 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: and Sudan are both signatories. They're both agreed to be 207 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: bound by the United Nations Genocide Convention. This is a 208 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: legal text that obliges countries to prevent genocide and to 209 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: punish those who carry it out, including within their own countries. 210 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: One section of this legal document states that countries can 211 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 2: take disputes quote, including those relating to the responsibility of 212 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 2: a country for genocide, to the ICJ, basically saying we 213 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 2: accuse you of committing genocide. We're taking this to the 214 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 2: World Court. 215 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: And we've seen that in previous cases. South Africa took 216 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: Israel to the ICJ over this exact claim. 217 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: Yea, and that case is ongoing. But this case couldn't 218 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: go ahead because the UAE is not party to that 219 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: specific section of this legal document. 220 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: They've got a carve out. 221 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: They yeah, they got a carve out of just this 222 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: specific section, which meant the ICJ basically had to say, 223 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: while we agree that there's something very concerning going on here, 224 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: we literally don't have jurisdiction, which for me, raises the question. 225 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: Who does yeah, fascinating. 226 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: So the Sudanese government, however, which as I said, is 227 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: controlled by the saf is still making these allegations. The 228 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: International Observer's observations still stand, and that means that it 229 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: is not accepting the saf UA led ceasefire, because I said, 230 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: that's one of the countries involved in this ceasefire proposal. Meanwhile, 231 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: last week the RSF that's the other group, said it 232 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 2: would activate a three month humanitarian truce, but US negotiators 233 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: said it hadn't actually formally accepted the deal, and there 234 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: have been reports of ongoing violence regardless of this kind 235 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: of stated truce. So for now seems like things are 236 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: at an impasse as they have been already. 237 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so no one has formally accepted that truce deal 238 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: that's been put on the table. As you've just said, 239 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: there is ongoing violence, and so whether or not that 240 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: is accepted, given that there are such huge reservations about 241 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: both the involvement of the UAE and also some of 242 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: the details in the plan, certainly one to keep an 243 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: eye on to see if it does get through. Definitely, Lucy, 244 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much for explaining this today. Thanks Sarah, 245 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us for another episode of 246 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: The Daily Os. We'll be back as normal this afternoon 247 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: with the headlines, but until then, have a great day. 248 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 249 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Os acknowledges 250 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 251 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 252 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 253 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.