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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: This episode will discuss the gambling industry and problem gambling.

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Speaker 2: If it brings anything up for you, there's support available

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven at one eight hundred eight five

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Speaker 2: eight eight five eight.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 3: the third of November. I'm Sam, I'm Billy. We all

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Speaker 3: know the phrase gamble, responsibly said in a rush after

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Speaker 3: every betting ad on Australian TV. But under a new

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Speaker 3: government policy, that tagline is going to change in attempts

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Speaker 3: to curb our nationwide gambling problem. We'll explain the watts

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Speaker 3: and whys of the new taglines in today's deep dive.

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Speaker 3: But first, Billy, what is making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 2: Shadow treasurer Angus Taylor has accused the Federal government of

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Speaker 2: doing little to address the root cause of inflation in

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Speaker 2: last week's budget. In an address to the National Press

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Speaker 2: Club yesterday, Taylor said that the government hasn't addressed the

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Speaker 2: source of cost of living pressures, calling this quote the

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Speaker 2: biggest missed opportunity of last week's budget.

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Speaker 3: Meanwhile, thousands of people attended vigils and rallies across Australia

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Speaker 3: last night to honor the life of Cassius Turvey, a

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Speaker 3: fifteen year old Nunger boy who died after a brutal

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Speaker 3: assault last month. Turvy was attacked by strangers on his

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Speaker 3: way home from school on the thirteenth of October and

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Speaker 3: was allegedly beaten with a metal pole before dying in

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Speaker 3: hospital several days later.

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Speaker 2: An investigation to understand how five lions were able to

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Speaker 2: leave their cage at Sydney's Taronga Zoo on Wednesday morning

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Speaker 2: is now un away. One adult and four cubs were

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Speaker 2: discovered in a small area next to their main exhibit

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Speaker 2: at six thirty am on Wednesday and would then returned

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Speaker 2: to their dens within minutes with no injuries to guess

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Speaker 2: or staff reported.

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Speaker 3: The employees of Unilever have some good news today. A

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Speaker 3: four day workweek trial for the company in New Zealand

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Speaker 3: found improvements to personal wellbeing, absenteeism and work life conflicts.

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Speaker 3: That means the trial has been extended and will also

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Speaker 3: begin for their Australian officers.

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Speaker 2: The question we all want to know will this be

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Speaker 2: introduced at.

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Speaker 3: The daily OS. I prefer to take the five day

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Speaker 3: week model.

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Speaker 2: Sam, I have to say, it feels like a particularly

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Speaker 2: pertinent time to be speaking about gambling in Australia, given

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Speaker 2: we've just had the Melbourne Cup, which, as we know,

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Speaker 2: is one of the most popular bedding days for Australians,

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Speaker 2: and so today we're talking about gambling warnings specifically, and

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Speaker 2: I think that most of the audience would be familiar

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Speaker 2: with that little tag at the end of TV radio

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Speaker 2: ads that tells us to gamble responsibly. Now, the government

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Speaker 2: came out yesterday and announce that that is going to change,

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Speaker 2: so you'll no longer hear the words gamble responsibly. Instead,

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Speaker 2: we'll have new taglines new mornings, and it appears to

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Speaker 2: be a recognition that gambling in Australia is growing as

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Speaker 2: a societal problem. So Sam, what will the new taglines be?

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Speaker 3: Well, firstly, Billy, I think it's interesting you commented on

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Speaker 3: the timing of this announcement just the day after the

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Speaker 3: Melbourne Cup. I think there's definitely a bit of rhyme

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Speaker 3: to that reason. In terms of those new taglines, it's

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Speaker 3: going to change from gamble responsibly as you said, to

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Speaker 3: a new range. There's going to be seven new taglines,

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Speaker 3: and they include phrases like chances are you're about to lose,

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Speaker 3: and you win some, you lose more. Then we've got

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Speaker 3: what's gambling really costing you? And imagine what you could

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Speaker 3: be buying instead.

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Speaker 2: And from the times that I've seen it, I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's said really quickly and always at the end.

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Speaker 2: It kind of is a blink and you miss it moment.

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Speaker 2: Will they be presented differently at all? Will it be

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Speaker 2: emphasized more?

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Speaker 3: I think it's pretty fair to assume all of us

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Speaker 3: agree that they're kind of trying to hide that gamble

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Speaker 3: responsibly warning at some point. It kind of reminds me

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Speaker 3: of the end of a political ad when they say,

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Speaker 3: authorized by the New Southward's gon gain. So this one

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Speaker 3: is going to be a little bit different. The government's

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Speaker 3: policies here include some very detailed instructions about which taglines

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Speaker 3: can be used in which media, So we're going to

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Speaker 3: see different ones on radio or TV. But also then

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Speaker 3: how much of the screen or the page they need

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Speaker 3: to take up. So I've got terrible eyesight, I wear

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Speaker 3: very thick glasses and I always struggle to read them,

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Speaker 3: so this might actually be a chance for me to

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Speaker 3: be able to read the warnings. Then we're also going

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Speaker 3: to have guidelines on how long they should be spoken for,

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Speaker 3: but even what font they should be using. And for

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Speaker 3: all the font nerds out there, it has to be

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Speaker 3: a real bold Now for TV radio and online videos,

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Speaker 3: the tagline must be read at the end of an

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Speaker 3: ad and spoken. These are their words, slowly, calmly, and

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Speaker 3: with an even pace.

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Speaker 2: So you've said that there are seven different options, and

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Speaker 2: you've listed some of those options for US. Can companies

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Speaker 2: choose which one they use or do they have to

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Speaker 2: use all of them? How does that work?

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Speaker 3: So they have to use one in every applicable ad

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Speaker 3: on TV, radio, in print, online and within gambling apps.

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Speaker 3: They can't stick with the same one. They actually have

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Speaker 3: to rotate through the seven messages in what the government

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Speaker 3: describes as an equal rotation. And part of that is

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Speaker 3: interestingly to avoid message fatigue amongst taglines. In most cases,

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Speaker 3: the following call to action must be included and I

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Speaker 3: will read this at a slow, even pace. For free

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Speaker 3: and confidential support, call one eight hundred eight eight eight

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Speaker 3: five eight or visit Gambling Help online dot org dot au. Now,

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Speaker 3: when messages are displayed on the screen, they have to

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Speaker 3: take up the majority of the screen, and in prints

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Speaker 3: they must use a large font and take up a

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Speaker 3: third of the ad space, so pretty demanding requirements. They

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Speaker 3: are clearly designed to make the messages loud and clear.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine the government has put a lot of

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Speaker 2: thought into this, But what evidence is there that these

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Speaker 2: new warnings could deter people from gambling irresponsibly compared to

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Speaker 2: the old warning.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they've put a lot of thought into it,

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Speaker 3: but also a lot of money. The government funded a

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Speaker 3: study involving behavioral research and testing, so it's quite scientific

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Speaker 3: to figure out the best ways to frame these messages.

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Speaker 3: And the group of taglines that they've come up with

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Speaker 3: are sorted by themes targeting different thinking patterns in gamblers.

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Speaker 3: And the way that I've been thinking about this when

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Speaker 3: reading the story yesterday and today, it's kind of different

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Speaker 3: gambling personas and different ways to get through to different

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Speaker 3: types of gamblers. So let's take the tagline you win some,

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Speaker 3: you lose more, which all appear at the end of

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Speaker 3: TV and radio ads. That's designed to target gamblers who

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Speaker 3: are thinking about how they could win instead of thinking

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Speaker 3: about how they might in fact lose, and it reminds

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Speaker 3: them that losing is a quote likely outcome of wagering.

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Speaker 2: That's really interesting trying to target different ways of thinking

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Speaker 2: and different personality types. Do we know how some research

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Speaker 2: participants responded to them? Was there any more information about that.

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Speaker 3: We did get a bit of insight into how the

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Speaker 3: people in the testing environment responded to these ads, and

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Speaker 3: it seems to be the case that the ones that

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Speaker 3: had a particularly strong response, the taglines that had a

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Speaker 3: strong response, are actually going to be used across the board.

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Speaker 3: So there are some taglines that are only for TV

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Speaker 3: or only for radio, and there are some that are

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Speaker 3: going to be everywhere. And one of the strong ones

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Speaker 3: is chances are You're about to lose. And people said

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Speaker 3: that this was a good warning and that quote it

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Speaker 3: would make me think, chances are I'm going to lose,

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Speaker 3: So I'm probably not going to win, So do I

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Speaker 3: really want to do this? An interview is said that

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Speaker 3: if confronted with that warning within the environment of a

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Speaker 3: betting app, which I think is where most Australians would bet,

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Speaker 3: they'd likely to stop before placing a bet, because the

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Speaker 3: tagline wasn't scolding them, or it wasn't teaching them a lesson,

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Speaker 3: but it was just reminding them of the mathematical odds

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Speaker 3: of their chances of winning. Now, there are some of

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Speaker 3: the other taglines, like wat's gambling really costing you? They

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Speaker 3: were also found to be helpful by respondents because they

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Speaker 3: gave people a moment of pausing to stop and think, Actually,

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Speaker 3: maybe I'd I don't need to bet right now now.

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Speaker 3: When I looked at the taglines and reflected on my

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Speaker 3: psychology and what would work for me, I actually found

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Speaker 3: the line what else could you buy with this money

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Speaker 3: really effective for how my brain works. And I imagine

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Speaker 3: that if I saw it just before I put on

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Speaker 3: a fifty dollar bet within the environment of a gambling app,

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Speaker 3: I would be thinking about the nice meal at a

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Speaker 3: restaurant or a new T shirt that I could buy,

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Speaker 3: and that would make a real difference.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break. But first here

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Speaker 2: is a message from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: So what a sparch this?

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Speaker 2: How bad is gambling in Australia compared to other countries.

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Speaker 3: Well, Australians love to win, and we certainly have one

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Speaker 3: In terms of the highest gambling losses per person, we

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Speaker 3: have the international record for that.

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Speaker 2: That's an interesting pr SPIN that.

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Speaker 3: I've really used the sports metaphor against them there.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure the government would approve of that pr

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Speaker 2: SP no, and.

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Speaker 3: That would not have a warning on it. But the

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Speaker 3: losses are estimated at twelve hundred and seventy six dollars

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Speaker 3: per person per year. So if you're listening to this

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Speaker 3: and you're not a gambler, that means that somebody who

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Speaker 3: is a gambler is actually losing a heck of a

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Speaker 3: lot more than that, because that's based on the population. Now,

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Speaker 3: more than one percent of Australians are problem gamblers, and

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Speaker 3: the rates of problem gambling are much higher for online

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Speaker 3: gamblers than those who only use poking machines. Now, in total,

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Speaker 3: this is mind blowing. Australians gamble about twenty five billion

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Speaker 3: dollars every year. Now, more broadly, on this podcast, we've

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Speaker 3: brought you some stories about how the Star casinos in

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Speaker 3: Queensland and New South Wales have been held accountable for

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Speaker 3: their role in affecting people's gambling and in some cases

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Speaker 3: encouraging problem gamblers. And an example of that is how

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Speaker 3: they allowed vulnerable people to gamble for more than twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours in one sitting.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about how big this problem is. So why

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Speaker 2: hasn't the government just banned gambling ads all together? I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking of other issues where they have done that, like smoking.

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Speaker 2: For example, there's a total ban on advertising cigarettes in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Why haven't they adopted a similar thing for gambling.

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Speaker 3: Look, I would say that the trend's long term is

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Speaker 3: heading towards a banning of gambling ads, but we're certainly

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Speaker 3: a heck of away from that right now. Interestingly, the

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Speaker 3: Social Services Minister Amanda Rishworth was asked about this on

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Speaker 3: a radio interview yesterday. She didn't give a clear answer

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Speaker 3: to this question, but she did say the government would

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Speaker 3: take further steps in this space. There are already some

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Speaker 3: rules restricting when gambling ads can be shown, including that

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Speaker 3: they cannot be shown during children's programs or advertise the

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Speaker 3: odds during a sports game. On TV. I'm particularly interested

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Speaker 3: by this last one because if you've watched any sport

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Speaker 3: on TV lately, you might notice that gambling companies don't

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Speaker 3: seem particularly obliging to these rules. They seem to have

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Speaker 3: identified some cracks in the legislation.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm interested. How have the gambling companies responded to this.

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Speaker 2: I imagine they're not too happy.

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Speaker 3: Well, we reached out to some of the top gambling

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Speaker 3: companies in Australia yesterday but haven't had a response back

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Speaker 3: from them. I'd say the odds are that we're not

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Speaker 3: going to hear back in any case, though, they will

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Speaker 3: have until early next year to make sure their ads

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Speaker 3: are compliant with those changes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as you said there, these rules won't come into

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Speaker 2: effect until March next year, and we will keep an

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Speaker 2: eye on the story.

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Speaker 3: As always.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on the Daily Oz. If

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Speaker 2: you've learned something from today's episode, don't forget to hit

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Speaker 2: subscribe so there's a TDA episode waiting for you every

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Speaker 2: weekday morning. Have a great day and we'll be back

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Speaker 2: again tomorrow.