WEBVTT - Murder in Queensland via Texas 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.000 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.400 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.040 It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:12.080 absolutely really. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.840 Pamous blood on his clothing the day after the alleged. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.440 Attamp on a shallow mud bank and it fits Roy River. Basically. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.160 I think most of the people are used to me 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:20.520 are good people. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.200 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.279 is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.800 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pulled back the 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:31.520 blinds to shine a light on the. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.640 Darkest parts of our justice system and ask who are 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.440 the victims. I'm Amy Maguire. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.640 And I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:46.040 Prisoner Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.239 names of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:51.599 upset some listeners. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.280 Now, if you've been listening to the podcast from the 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.120 very beginning, you would remember the interview that got Martin 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.000 interested in Kevin Henry's case. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.560 Martin joined me on the Aboriginal. 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.240 Talkback program Let's Talk last year to discuss the case 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.839 of Rodney Reid, who currently is on death row over 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.760 in the United States, and it was through his investigation 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.360 into Rodney's case in particular, that I began to realize 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.959 that Martin might be able to help with Kevin Henry 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.480 in my hometown of Rockampden. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.080 Now this episode, we're going to look. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.360 Back at Rodney. 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:30.480 Reed's case in particular. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.120 Martin, are there any updates in Rodney's case. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.200 Yeah, We've actually had some really big developments in Rodney's 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.360 case in the last week. But I'll give a little 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:47.039 background of the case for those who didn't hear that 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.680 interview we did more than a year ago. Rodney was 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.920 sentenced to death for the murder of a woman named 0:01:55.000 --> 0:02:01.040 Stacy Stitz, and there was virtually no evidence again against Rodney. 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.440 The only evidence they had at the time was a 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.880 small bit of DNA evidence, and Rodney was able to 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.600 easily explain that Rodney had been in a relationship with 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.680 Mistites for about four to five months. Now, Rodney's an 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.680 African American man in an almost exclusively white town in 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.640 rural Texas, and many of the issues in terms of 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.520 racism in the justice system that Aboriginal on Torres Strait 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.320 Islander people face in Australia and in Kevin's case in Queensland, 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:43.480 nearly identical to what African American people suffer, particularly in 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.800 a state like Texas that still has the death penalty 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:54.040 and has these towns where segregation almost still exists. So 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.000 the mere fact that Mistites was a white woman and 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.679 that mister Reed was a black man and they had 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:05.679 been having a relationship was controversial. What made it more 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:13.680 controversial Misdites was engaged to one of the town's police officers. Now, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.400 after a long investigation that was conducted by one of 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.960 that police officer's best friends and his next door neighbor, 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.880 also a police officer, Rodney was found guilty and sentenced 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:33.680 to death. Now, twice the state of Texas have tried 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:38.400 to execute Rodney, and twice we've been able to head 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.680 that off at the last minute. And this is largely 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:47.360 because there is basically no evidence against Rodney other than 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.040 this small piece of DNA, and that piece of DNA 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:56.680 is easily explainable because they were in a relationship. Now 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.720 we also go to the issue of the police in 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:04.080 vas instigation, and here it is very similar to the 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.960 case of Kevin Henry. Kevin, like Rodney, there was no 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.600 eyewitness that saw either Kevin nor Rodney involved in the 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:20.000 murder of either Stacy or Linda in any way. In 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.000 Kevin's case, there is no forensic evidence at all, and 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.640 in Rodney's case, there's no blood or anything like that. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.320 There's no murder weapon, there's no evidence of Rodney at 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.320 the murder scene. There's just the DNA that would match 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.360 up with the fact that they had been in a relationship. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.560 And as we've talked about before, in Kevin's case, the 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:49.760 police grabbed their man almost immediately, and once they'd fixated 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:54.279 on Rodney, they didn't look anywhere else. And just like 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.480 Kevin's case, there were problems with the way the evidence 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.760 was handled, and we can go through some of those 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:07.200 similarities throughout this episode. But now that you have a 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.600 little idea of what happened in Rodney's case, this can 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.080 help explain what we're dealing with in Kevin's at the moment, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.800 which is a very common question I get about both cases. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.279 Why is Kevin and Rodney still in jail when there's 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:28.440 so much evidence they didn't commit the crime, And in 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.520 both cases the answer is very similar. Despite the fact 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.960 Rodney's in Texas and Kevin is in Queensland, and we're 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.640 dealing with two very different legal systems, and that is, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.800 once your appeals are exhausted, just as Rodney's and Kevin's 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.919 have been, the onus becomes not on you to prove 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:57.000 that you are innocent, not only to prove that there 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.600 was doubt in the initial trial, have to prove that 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.640 not only did you not do it, but that someone 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.039 else did and explain, in the case of Kevin to 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.360 the Attorney General and the governor for a pardon, how 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.440 the crime happened and who did it, and in the 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:21.080 US case, through the courts. And you're largely restricted on 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.039 the evidence that you can use to do that, because 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.520 even if what happened at the initial trial is clearly 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.200 flawed and faulty, much of that evidence is considered matters 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.800 of fact, and that's how they refer it to it 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:41.000 in Queensland and in Texas. So the latest development in 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.719 Rodney's case is not all the new evidence we have 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.680 uncovered that show Rodney did not commit the crime, and 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.200 we can go into that evidence and it clearly shows 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.800 he was not involved. The only thing we can do 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.920 is show that the real killer lied to police, and 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.000 so that is the latest in Rodney's case is that 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.400 a judge has set a new hearing for October and 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.440 that we'll be able to show that a witness at 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.920 the time, a person who we believe killed misstites and 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.360 is the real killer, lied to police. We won't actually 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.920 be able to present any of the new evidence that 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.360 clears Rodney's name. And it's very much the same in 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:33.120 Kevin's case. That the State of Queensland considers the ruling 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.320 made by the judge in Kevin Henry's trial that was 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.560 reiterated by the appeals court judge to be a matter 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.080 of fact, and even if we've got evidence to show 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.360 that that's not the case, we actually have to come 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.280 up with something completely different and completely new. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.920 So Marlin Ronnie read what evidence. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.400 Was that he was. 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.880 The evidence is quite similar to Kevin's in that it 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:12.800 deals with the forensic evidence as well as eyewitnesses. I'll 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.080 deal with the forensics first. So obviously, in Kevin's case, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.840 there was no forensic evidence linking Kevin whatsoever to the crime. 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.000 But what we've been able to do is show that 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.680 there's forensic evidence to show Kevin couldn't have committed the crime, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.600 such as the fact that the body had to have 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.840 been placed on the north side of the river, that 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.600 there was no DNA evidence of any kind like blood 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.520 that would have been present on Kevin the mud had 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.800 he weighed in to the water, and in Rodney's it's 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.280 quite similar. There's no DNA evidence at all that places 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.680 Rodney read at the crime scene. But this is the 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:02.439 evidence we discovered. There is evidence placing other people at 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.640 the crime scene. There is evidence placing police at the 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.880 crime scene. There is evidence placing the police who investigated 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.960 the murder of Stacy Stites at the crime scene. And 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:23.280 one of those police officers is mister Fanell Stacy Stites 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:28.360 as fiance who had discovered his white fiancee was having 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.839 an affair with a black man, and we've uncovered forensic 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:37.200 evidence and DNA that places him at the scene where 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:43.200 Stacy was murdered. And worse than any of that is 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.880 that this scene, the house of misdits, a woman who 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.839 was missing and then found murdered, was never looked at 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.600 by a police. It was a house she shared with 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.960 her police officer fiance, and the investigat was done by 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.960 his neighbour and a best friend, who were both fellow 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.280 police officers, and they never once went into the house. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.000 Had they done so, they would have found a large 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.880 amount of blood, they would have found the murder weapon. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.719 And because of the stupidity of these police officers, they 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:23.040 then left DNA evidence and forensic material where they placed 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:30.319 Mistites's body. So it's quite similar to Kevin's case in 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.360 that where the murder took place and where the body 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:39.360 is found are two different places. Just like Kevin, Rodney 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.439 had an alibi for ever being where the body was 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.440 placed and had to be placed, and there is no 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:52.280 forensic evidence linked whatsoever for either gentleman to the crime 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.000 scene or being involved in the murder. And here in 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.559 Rodney's case, we have evidence that implicates the fiance, a 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.880 police officer of Mistites, and his colleagues at the murder 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.600 scene and where the body was placed. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.960 So I'm just wondering, given thing that you've been working 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.360 on this case for the past decade and uncovering a 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.599 lot of this evidence, has this ever gone back to 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.760 the police, They ever conducted their own investigations into whether 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.360 the police were complicited. 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:32.560 In sadly not, And I think this is a real problem, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:37.000 just as we've exposed in Kevin's case a large number 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:41.880 of police failings. In Rodney's case, those failings are clearly 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:47.840 much more egregious or or at least more obvious. There's 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:52.040 no doubt that they litter Kevin's case too. But here 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.160 you have the fiance of a police officer and they 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.520 allow his best friend and his colleague to invest instigate 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:06.680 her murder. Now, what makes this even worse and why 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.600 Rodney's case should have been elevated up the hierarchy inside 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:16.880 the police, is that the fiance of mistites the woman 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.680 Rodney is supposed to have murdered. He was a police 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:26.679 officer who had had other issues involving women that should 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.800 have created an instant cloud over him. In fact, I 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.760 can tell you he is currently in prison for kidnap 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.640 and sexual misconduct in an unrelated case that took place 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:45.040 ten years after his own fiancee was murdered. Now, how 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.920 he was investigated and tipped off about that was that 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.960 a very junior police officer who had once been in 0:12:54.000 --> 0:13:00.319 the police academy with this gentleman, told her superiors years 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.520 earlier that she believed he was capable of killing his 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.640 own girlfriend, and that he'd said to this fellow police 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.880 officer a young woman that if he'd ever caught Mistite's cheating, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.800 he would strangle her and kill her, and that is 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:22.000 exactly what happened to her. And yet, despite this information 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:27.240 having been passed on by a fellow police officer, it 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:32.240 took ten years for the police to investigate him. And 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.600 they only did so because he was caught red handed 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.719 kidnapping and sexually assaulting a person in his custody, and 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.280 that took place in two thousand and seven. And yet, 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.640 despite that, despite all the DNA evidence linking this man, 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:55.439 who clearly now can be shown to have this despicable 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.839 criminal attitude towards women who had admitted to doing what 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.080 he would later do, who would be convicted of doing 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.760 something very similar, the State of Texas would twice after 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:12.200 that try and execute Rodney, and up until last week, 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.440 when we won the chance to have a judge look 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.520 at just a little bit of this new evidence, the 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.120 State of Texas was planning on executing Rodney for a 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:28.040 third time. So I think you can't get a more 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.680 obvious case of where the police need to pass on 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:39.800 an investigation either to another authority, or that that investigation 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:44.160 of a fellow police officer be observed by an independent 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.960 statutory authority, And in neither Kevin's case nor Rodney's case 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.280 has that ever occurred. And what we're dealing with is 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:58.680 police investigating each other. In Rodney's case, it was the 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.520 person we will clim is the true murderer, his next 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.880 door neighbor and his best friend doing the investigation. In 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:12.040 Kevin's case, it was always police from the same small 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.920 regional town of Rockhampton. I don't think anyone could say 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.400 that this is in any way a credible way to 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.520 get to the truth, let alone insure justice is done. 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.760 If these police are so convinced of mister Reed's guilt, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.280 if they are so convinced of mister Henry's guilt, so 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.960 convinced that, in Rodney's case, they want him dead, and 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.520 in Kevin's case, they want to see him locked up 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.720 for the rest of his life. Why would they not 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.920 be willing to hand over that investigation to a third party, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.320 or be willing to at least have an independent party 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:57.040 observe and analyze their own investigation. And the answer is clear, 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.360 because they know their own investigations are flawed, so flawed 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.600 because they covered up vital facts and they know deep 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.240 in their heart they got the wrong person, and you 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:11.080 know about. 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:17.640 That piece of evidence being taken. That's pretty much how. 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.840 How would you describe got a long fight just to 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.240 get this most case, how long it has taken, and 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.440 how you described the process. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.640 It's very exhausting. I think as people have heard listening 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.000 to Kevin's case, you're talking about events that happened over 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:44.200 twenty years ago, so finding witnesses who remember what happened, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.920 and of course, because you have this high threshold, you 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.440 need to prove that. Not only do you have to 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.640 prove your client innocent, you have to basically solve a 0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:01.640 murder that police either couldn't solve or deliberately painted. And 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.840 so it's an enormous amount of work. It's thousands of hours. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.800 It's finding forensic and DNA evidence that was missed and 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.840 that was one thing that we were able to do 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.320 was find DNA evidence that was missed by the police 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:22.720 in Rodney's case. And this whole time, both Rodney and 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.359 Kevin can wait years at a time for new pieces 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.639 of information. For Kevin, he's desperate to get out knowing 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.439 he's an innocent man. For Rodney, he's watching a clock, 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:40.359 looking at a calendar, knowing his execution date is fast approaching, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.480 and we haven't wrung them yet to say we've found 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.040 the evidence that's going to get you off. So for 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:54.919 both men it's enormously stressful. For those investigating what's gone on, 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.960 you really have a countdown clock, and there's enormous amount 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:04.360 of stress, and largely because the police are so uncooperative 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:10.920 and often have done a really flawed case. It's virtually 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.040 impossible to prove what you need to prove. But in 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.520 each case, I'm confident that we have And it really 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:24.639 comes down to how hard you're willing to work, how 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.520 much you're willing to push, and the fact you're just 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.520 not going to give up. And in Rodney's case, again twice, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.080 he's come within moments. You know, he's eaten his last meal, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.640 he's said his last prayer, and the State of Texas 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.560 have been unsuccessful in their attempts to try and kill him. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.159 And that's purely because of the investigative work. And I 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.640 should say that none of this is ever assisted by 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.600 the courts or by police. It's not funded by anyone. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.800 This is all being done by a handful of people 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.879 who believe in these two men's innocence, and who believe 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.199 that these men are innocent and that the crime is 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.760 being committed against them, and that there is a shocking 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:17.120 crime committed against both women for whom there have been 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.439 no justice. For twenty years. The families of Mistites and 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.760 the family of Linda have not been able to sleep 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:29.479 knowing the person who really killed their loved one is 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:34.679 in prison. And it's for that that we just don't stop. 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.639 Working on Kenvidan case for the past year and a half. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.800 But already we've said this one of the podcast we've 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.480 covered keep witnessing at that place. Two are the men 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.800 at the end of the crime that show how was 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.320 transferred over the river and put it into. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:54.840 The water away. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:02.040 So it's actually relatively compared working on Rodney. I mean, 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.320 we've actually shown that the people who most likely could 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:06.600 it have. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:07.320 Done this time. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.720 And what does that say the Kevin O case. 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.360 That that we have already found the evidence that shows 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.040 the portray may. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.399 Have been Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:24.840 really good observation because it's considered fairly normal that these 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.400 things take a very long time, and the ten year 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:33.280 investigation and my involvement with Rodney's case. While it probably 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.119 seems very slow to a lot of people, and it 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.240 sure is slow for Rodney sitting on death row for 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.879 that long twenty years in total, ten years, why we 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:49.280 try and prove his innocence. Kevin's case, we've been able 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.800 to investigate and find so many key facts so quickly. 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.240 We've been able to find eye witnesses, of which there 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.600 were none presented at the Troy. We've been able to 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:06.080 find flaws in the forensic evidence, and new forensic evidence. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:11.040 We've been able to not only show Kevin had an alibi, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:16.359 but have eyewitnesses point the finger at two people who 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.920 did commit the crime who don't have an alibi. We've 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.480 also been able to show that the way these two 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:29.480 men disposed of Linda's body matches with our own forensic 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.880 investigation and actually matches with the police's initial forensic investigation. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:40.640 And all that has happened in around about a year's time, 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:46.800 and so I think it shows two things. Kevin Henry 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:51.800 is quite clearly an innocent man. In a year, we've 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:58.520 uncovered with really just a very small team of us 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:03.320 doing this work, that Kevin is innocent, and that two 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.919 other people involved in the murder of Linda who have 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:13.040 never faced justice, and we've been able to uncover more 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.440 than what a much larger team in the United States 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.479 has been able to uncover in a ten year period. 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.640 I also think what it shows is the fact that 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.119 we've been able to do it with no resources at all, 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:32.880 doing at twenty something years after the crime took place. 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:40.040 That clearly the police investigation was a disgrace. They had 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.280 the resources available to them, the murder had just taken place, 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.880 They had all the forensics, they had access to all 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.639 the witnesses, and they had access to the full weight 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.000 of the State of Queensland and its justice system. That 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.920 means they could call in police experts from all over 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.080 the state and they did it. Means they could have 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.399 called in forensic experts from all over the state and 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:06.000 they did. 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:06.520 It. 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.479 Meant they had access to experts on the river and 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.920 its tidal movements. They had access to experts who should 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.800 have been able to uncover Linda's cause of death and 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.840 the fact that her body had been moved and where 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:28.240 it had been placed. But either they were incompetent and couldn't, 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.920 or the investigation was a farce. And a sham, and 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.840 in the time they had and with all their resources, 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.760 they got it so wrong. And we've shown twenty six 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.879 years later they had absolutely no excuse for getting it 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.920 so badly wrong. And I have to say, of all 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:54.000 the cases I've worked on, largely on people on death 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:59.000 row where investigations can take up to ten years to 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.160 prove their innocence, to have uncovered this much to show 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:07.080 Kevin Henry is innocent in just a year, facing all 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.480 the obstacles we've had to overcome with the least resources 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.800 I've ever had to work with, I think says everything 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:19.240 about Kevin Henry's innocence and everything you need to know 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.960 about how the Queensland Police conducted this investigation. 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:29.159 That's the human that we've talked about in being a 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.280 part of that within a statement that they passed away 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:39.840 and the alleged perpetrator is in jail on charges of 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:44.639 kidnapping and sexual assault, would that affect Kevin's. 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:48.280 Passed away. 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:53.760 Yeah, it's a good point, although obviously we should explain 0:24:53.840 --> 0:25:00.000 that those people were still very much alive when Kevin 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:05.080 and went to trial and could have been called as witnesses. 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:10.359 They were known to police, but they weren't investigated. It 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:14.840 does make it harder now because we don't have people 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.800 to point to and say, these are the people that 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.919 did it. They're still alive, they've never faced justice and 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:25.720 perhaps even have them admit to their guilt, given the 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.639 sheer weight of evidence we do have of their involvement 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.520 in the crime, and not all of which have we 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:36.800 revealed yet on this podcast. And as you say, in 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:42.640 Rodney's case, you've got the extra evidence of the perpetrator 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:48.080 being the fiance having confessed to a fellow female officer 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:52.440 that if he'd caught his fiancee of achieating, he would 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:56.320 strangle her and that is how Stacy was killed. And 0:25:56.400 --> 0:26:00.520 the fact he had such disregard for human life and 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:04.120 particularly women, that he would go on to commit quite 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:08.399 a similar crime and a very violent, horrific crime, even 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:13.160 while being an officer, clearly is more evidence in Rodney's 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:17.359 favor than we have in Kevin's. But I still think 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:21.639 what we've got in both cases is overwhelming, and what 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:26.480 should really concern people is in both cases it's not 0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:30.000 an issue of evidence. There is more than enough evidence 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:34.040 to prove both men are innocent, that other people committed 0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:39.040 the crime and exactly how that crime was committed. The 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:44.840 hold up is that everyone passes the buck. In Texas, 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:48.120 the governor could have pardoned Rodney a long time ago. 0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.600 In Texas, the governor could have ordered an investigation into 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:56.919 how the police were investigating their own friends, that the 0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.800 police were involved in this murder and helping their fellow 0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:05.600 officer cover up the killing of his fiance. In Kevin's case, 0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:10.119 the attorney general could have long looked, long ago looked 0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:14.639 into Kevin's case. And there's been requests by Kevin Henry 0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:19.760 himself from nineteen ninety three onwards for exactly that both 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:24.040 men have always maintained their innocence. But no one in 0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:28.320 the government in Texas or in Queensland has been willing 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:33.639 to lift up this scab on this wound that won't close, 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.560 that hangs over both states' heads. And it's that they 0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:41.320 will lock up black men and take their lives away 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.400 despite knowing they did not commit the crime for which 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:50.000 they're accused. And so while it's quite clear that the 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.040 police have a lot to answer for and that courts 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:57.840 have made terrible mistakes, people in government have the power. 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:02.200 The governor in Texas, any general in Queensland have the 0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:07.680 authority to reinvestigate these cases and to pardon both men, 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:10.320 and they've refused to do that, and I don't think 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:15.480 we should overlook that fact. You're elected to public office 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:20.240 to make the tough decisions, and sometimes that means scrutinizing 0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:22.760