1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Now we know that it is being reported that Larakia 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: elder Doctor Richard Fijo has quit us the chair of 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: the Darwin Waterfront in stand against the COLP lowering the 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: age of criminal responsibility. He said, I've resigned as the 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: chairman of the norm Waterfront Corporation in protest because I 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: refuse to work for a government who's responsible for locking 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: up ten year old children. He went on to say, 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: everyone knows very well don Dale is full of Aboriginal children, 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: and I'll take my place with my people, and I'm 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: here to make a very clear statement that I will 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: not play any part of this, not in any way, 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: shape or form. Doctor Richard Fijo joins me on the line. 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: Good morning to you. 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: Richard, Good morning Katie. 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Richard. This 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: is a big call. Why did you decide to stand down? 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: Because it shouldn't happen in the first place. It's unjust 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: and it's unreasonable and it's unnecessary. And we have the 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: people have voted in a government that is basically brought 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 2: in laws against children. And I'm not just talking about 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: Abaginal to children. I'm talking about any child that's ten 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: years or younger has the potential of being arrested. And 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: I worked for Average and Legal Aid from ninety four 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: to ninety eight, and I also worked as a paralegal 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: in a Legal Aid commission, so I've done my justice homework. 26 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: I used to go to the Correctional Service of Berrima 27 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: and I used to talk with the man. We used 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: to go to the Old don Dale and I used 29 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: to talk to the children there and I've seen firsthand 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: with my own eyes the conditions of those places. And 31 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: it's inconceivable that any government or society would condone this 32 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: happening to ten years old people because they're humans, and 33 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: you know, where is the human factor in this? This 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: is unacceptable Richard. 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: What did you take into consideration before making this decision 36 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: and what discussions did you have before making this decision. 37 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: I had a lot of people calling me from the 38 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: community and the concerned, and they're scared because it's blatantly 39 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: obviously that this is obvious, that this is targeting Aboriginal people. 40 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: They're building more presence, they're building the police force. We 41 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: have a history from first encounters of being incarceration, and 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: there's so many pictures out there in black and white 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: of old men with chains on the necks. This is 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: absurd that this is happening in the year twenty twenty four, 45 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: twenty five. 46 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: Was it a difficult decision for you to make because 47 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: I know that you have done a lot of hard 48 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: work there at the Dale and Waterfront. You've done a 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: lot as well in terms of really, you know, bringing 50 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: culture to that role and bringing culture to the whole 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: Northern Territory community. 52 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: I do see myself as a person who is who 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 2: believes in reconciliation. Yeah, and this is not reconciliation. This 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: is a breakdown and separation of us in them in community, 55 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 2: and this is a threat. This is what's going to happen. 56 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: Everyone can see what's going to happen is a whole 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: bunch of Aboriginal kids are going to get locked up, 58 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: and let's just say how it is. Then there's going 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: to be a white kid that gets locked up, and 60 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: then they're going to change the laws because they happen 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: to a white person. That's discrimination. 62 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: Richard. We've got a lot of victims of crime who 63 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: listen to this show. Some of them have been targeted 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: by kids who are very young. Some of them may 65 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: not feel that kids as young as ten should go 66 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: into detention. But they feel that there needs to be 67 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: consequences if a crime is committed. What do you say 68 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: to those victims? 69 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, that not all offenders are Aboriginal 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: because no, but. 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: I didn't say that. Yeah, I certainly didn't say that, 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Nor am I suggestion. 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah I am saying that because there's a perception that 74 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: these are just Aboriginal kids. And yes there's a lot 75 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: of Aboriginal kids, but where was the investment into their parents, 76 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: into their communities. Is the wrong direction to lock up 77 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: Aboriginal children, They're just going to make They're going to 78 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: take bad kids are sorry, good kids and turn them 79 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: into bad kids. 80 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: Richard, I know they'll be people listen. I know there'll 81 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: be people listening this morning. Who are who are saying? 82 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about in some instances, kids who've 83 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: committed quite a number of crimes. You know, last week, 84 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: for example, we had you know, young people that were 85 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: a little bit older, thirteen to fifteen, who were on 86 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: bail when they then they then stole another vehicle in 87 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: the Northern suburbs. They allegedly went on a crime spree 88 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: around the Northern suburbs and not only put their own 89 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: lives in danger, but the lives of others. 90 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know, to be fair, I actually worked in 91 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: the police station as well, so I've seen both sides 92 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: of the fence, and I've seen the good work that 93 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: the police do as well. Well. What happened to community policing, 94 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: What happened to the politics around taking care of the 95 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 2: community and investing into the family structures and to the 96 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: educational systems. This is a knee jerk reaction that is 97 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: going to blow up back into the face of the 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: government and into the community. And everyone knows it, and 99 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: they'll see it in a few years time, and it's 100 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: to me it's a breach of human rights for the child. 101 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: Richard. One of the things that I hear, you know, 102 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: quite regularly on the show from people, and I think 103 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: that this is probably why we saw such a huge vote, 104 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, for the COLP, for the tougher on crime 105 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: policies in the lead into the election. One of the 106 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: things that I hear is, you know, Katie, it feels 107 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: like for the last eight years what the government did 108 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: just was not working. 109 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what the government's doing now is I'm 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: saying it upfront. It's not going to work. It's actually 111 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: going to make things worse. And I've said this, You're 112 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: going to take good children and put them in a 113 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: place where there's influenced, bad influence, and what do you 114 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: expect the result to be. It's going to be bad 115 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 2: children coming out of there. Negative will influence negative. So 116 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 2: you know, for me as a person, as a traditional owner, 117 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 2: I have to protect my community because it's very clear 118 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 2: to me that this is targeting my first nation's community 119 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: and I will come to their defense. 120 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: Richard. Some of the messages coming through this morning on 121 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: the tech signe one that says, Katie, this isn't about 122 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: targeting Aboriginal children, it's about targeting kids who are breaking 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: the law. 124 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: Well, I would say, check the stats in don Dale. 125 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: Richard. Look, you know, I've got a lot of respect 126 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: for you. I think that you do a phenomenal job. 127 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: You and I have spoken on so many occasions and 128 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: agreeing with what you've got to say in the sense 129 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: that they've been victims of crime and they're very concerned 130 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: about the issues that we are still experiencing when it 131 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: comes to crime. You know, one of the things that 132 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: I also hear though I've had a grandmother get in 133 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: contact with me in recent weeks, I've also had a 134 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: mum get in contact with me last week who said, Katie, 135 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: my child is on the wrong track and there's actually 136 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: no programs for them, there's no support for them to 137 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: try to get them on the right. 138 00:07:54,200 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: Track, and there your lies in the solution. That is 139 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: one hundred percent my point, Katie. Yes, it should not 140 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: matter whether their first nation children or not. They need 141 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: to be programs, preventative programs so they don't end up 142 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: in prison or under arrest in the first place. 143 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: Richard. This morning, we know that the Northern Territory government 144 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: or the Department of Corrections have said that they've started 145 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: moving young people that are in the that we're in, 146 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: the old don Dale into the new youth detention center, 147 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: the Holts Youth Detention Center. They're saying it's purpose built, 148 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: that it is the new facility's got rehabilitation strategies. They're 149 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: going to provide young people with the life and vocational 150 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: skills required to choose a better path once they leave detention. 151 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: What do you make of that. 152 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: A cage is a cage. They shouldn't be in a 153 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: cage in the first place, irrelevant of color. And that's 154 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: actually you've just testified that by saying about the non 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: Aboriginal grandmother talking about the children where the government had 156 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: the opportunity, I. 157 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: Will just say, I actually don't know whether she was 158 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: Indigenous or non indigenous, to be honest with you, same 159 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: as the mum who got in contact with me. I 160 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: actually have no idea whether they are indigenous or non indigenous. 161 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: Again, my point is it's irrelevant that we're talking about 162 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: children here, so there should be They shouldn't be in 163 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: a cage. They shouldn't be And I used to work 164 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: with law and mandatory sentence and came in that was 165 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: brought in by Shanstone. I used to do community legal education, 166 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 2: and I used to go to schools, and I used 167 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: to talk to parents about their rights when they get arrested. 168 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: And this needs to reoccur again. We are on a 169 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: very defensive footing at the moment for First Nations people 170 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: because it's we know about the institution or racism that 171 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: exists in the systems. You know, we know it exists. 172 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: The statistics, the facts tell us this exists. So no 173 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: one can say to me that this is not targeting 174 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: First Nations people. That is absolute discrimination, and it's feeding 175 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: out into the streets and it's feeding being fed through 176 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: social media. But where are the facts? I'm talking about statistics, 177 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 2: And we know everyone knows how many Aboriginal kids are 178 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: in don Dale. Everyone knows that. Let's not get ourselves here, 179 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: you know. But you know what, like I'm saying, where 180 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: are the tree measures? They're talking about programs that happen 181 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: after the fact. They're saying, Oh, once we're in jail, 182 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: we can rehabilitate them through programs. Where's the program to 183 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: stop them from going to jail in the first place? 184 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: And that is my argument. And it doesn't matter whether 185 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: they black, white, or brindled. Yeah, their ten year old kids, 186 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: we're talking about the human rights factors they do not have. 187 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: And I'm pretty sure any doctor will tell you and 188 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: their ten year old child will not have the mental 189 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: capacity to understand that they're committing a crime. 190 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: Richard, we are going to have to get ready to 191 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: wrap up. I always appreciate your time, and you know, 192 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: I respect the fact that you're standing by what you 193 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: think is you know, what you think is right. I 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: always respect that in anybody that stands up for what 195 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: they believe in. 196 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie. And you know I do expect people 197 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: to throw it back at me. But I have made 198 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: a crew of being an a cultural educator and I 199 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: will educate the community and our history and our current 200 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: and statistics in our facts because today is where we 201 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: decide the future. 202 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: Richard, what's next for you? What are you going to 203 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: be doing next now that you've stepped away from from 204 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: your previous role. 205 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: Well, I can't leave that secret out, Katie. I'll be 206 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: able to save some surprises and keep some trick. 207 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: Well, when you decide you know where to come, you're 208 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: straight on air with me to let us know. 209 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: All right, you will know you will, and it's going 210 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: to be amazing. 211 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: Oh good on you will, doctor Richard Fijo. I always 212 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having a 213 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: chat with me this. 214 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: Morning, anytime, Katie, Thank you, thank you 215 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: Thanks so much.