WEBVTT - Dayne Beams Part One - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:06.440 Ordinarily Speaking. 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:08.960 I bought into the stereotypes of what a drug addict 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:21.840 was like, but then I became one. Takes time. 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.440 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Ordinarily Speaking. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.919 Dane Beams is a former Aussie rule star who won 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.000 a premiership with Collingwood and captained Brisbane. In twenty eighteen, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.520 Dane's dad died after a battle with cancer. It sent 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:47.040 Dane down a painful and dangerous path. His mental health deteriorated, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.959 culminating in drug and gambling addictions that almost cost him 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.480 his marriage and even his life. For the first time, 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.880 Dane reveals the extent of those addictions and the person 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.800 he turned into. We also from his wife, Kelly, who 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.720 has stood by him. She offers an honest account of 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.280 just how challenging it is to support an addict. I 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.399 hope this episode is helpful and insightful, but please know 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.920 the discussion is not designed to be medical or professional advice, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.280 rather the lived experience of two people who have a 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.319 story to share. If this chat is triggering for you, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.880 please know there is help out there. Beyond blue dot org, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.520 dot AU or Lifeline one three double one one four 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.279 are just a couple of places you can go. Dane 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.640 knows he's hurt a lot of people along the way, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.280 but he hopes he can also help a few too. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:50.440 We caught up in Dana Kelly's home in Melbourne. All beansy, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.120 thanks so much for spending some time with me. I'll 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.360 flag with everyone listening that we're in your new house 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.320 and there are kids running around all over the place, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.800 so if you hear screams, don't worry. Everyone is okay. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:02.760 We could get interrupted a few times. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.559 The best podcasts are always interrupted by a few kids. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.560 You and I first did an in depth interview back 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.720 in twenty eighteen back in Brisbane, and you were very 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.960 much in the midst of grieving your dad at the time, 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.960 and we're very open on some mental health issues. You've 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.680 been through a lot since then as well. I want 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.359 to start by asking you, how are you doing now. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.880 It's an interesting question because life's always full of ups 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.600 and downs, but right at that, in this specific moment 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.560 of time, I'm doing really, really well. I don't think 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.959 too far ahead, and I also try not to think 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.160 too far back. Always try and remember, and I learned 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.920 from my mistakes, but I try and just live in 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.919 the now. If I can just worry about what's going 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.200 on in this particular time. I feel like I don't 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.240 get any sort of anxiety thinking about the future or 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.000 any guilt thinking about the past. Like it's just, you know, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.320 it's it's just a simple way to live, and I 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.240 find that keeps me relatively grounded and happy. 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.880 So is it very much still a day to day 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.000 proposition for you and how you cope with everything? 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.040 Yeah, I guess not so much the you know, the 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.680 addiction side of things. I feel like i'm you know, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.480 well and truly on top of that. And there's you know, days, weeks, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.040 months where I go without thinking gambling or drugs. Like 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.040 I feel like that's you know, well and truly in 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:36.400 the past, it's just sort of you know, staying staying 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.600 in the moment, like just enjoying my kids and my wife. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.680 My daughter's going to go to school next year, like 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.160 you know, I feel like the first sort of two 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.400 years in her life in particular, you know, I was 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:49.720 relatively emotionless. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.760 So I am you know, since being you know, off. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.760 Substance, it's you actually feel emotion and like so it's 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.000 it's just good to you feel that, you know that 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.040 love and joy for your kids, like, and it's something 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.440 that for her first two years of her life anyway, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.440 my son was born later on, you know, I feel like, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.600 you know, I didn't have that. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.520 That's a hard thing to admit in retrospect, I imagine, like, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:19.760 do you have a bit of guilt over that? 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:20.760 Yeah? 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.680 Yeah, but it also I try not to think of 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.080 it that way. I try and just think of, you know, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.599 how good it is to actually feel that love for 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.680 her now. And it's good. It's a bloody good feeling, 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.800 and it's it's something you don't really actually realize you're 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.080 you're numbing at the time when you're when you're doing 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.640 the things that you're doing, like you don't actually think 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.800 about the fact that you're numbing any emotions. Like obviously 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.800 I was taking a lot of those drugs to just 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.680 you know, not have. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.640 To deal with what I needed to deal. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.000 With the sad emotions. 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.599 I guess, Yeah, you don't really realize that it's actually 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.720 compressing a lot of your just your your emotions day 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:04.200 to day. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.120 All your positive stuff. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:05.800 Yeah. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.080 So well, I can't tell you how good it feels 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.279 to be able to just get out of bed without 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.280 any guilt of a life you know, and I live 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.599 a real simple life, like literally, I just try not 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:18.039 to lie. 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.520 That's literally like my number one rule. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.280 And that's bloody yard for a lot of people, but 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.400 I feel like, yeah, it's just what got me in 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.120 a lot of trouble. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.520 So it's just just try and stay away from it. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.680 So how do you describe yourself as far as addiction goes? Now? 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.599 I would say that, you know, I'm a recovering addict 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:47.919 that loves helping other people. Addiction is something that I 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.280 knew nothing about until experiencing it myself. I was I 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.800 was one of those people that would drive down you know, 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.600 Victoria Street and look at all the heroin addicts and 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:04.480 judge them. And you don't ever know what someone's past 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.280 is or what they're going through at the time. It's 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.680 a really difficult thing to break, like and you know, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:16.320 fortunately I was lucky to have access to some really 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.040 good professionals and that's sort of a benefit of you know, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:21.719 the career that I was in at the time. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.560 But there's a lot of people that don't get. 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:27.920 That help, and you know, they'll essentially live with this 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.440 for the rest of my life or die from it. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.559 So it's a real challenging thing. Particularly, I went through 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.880 two different addictions. You know, I had the gambling and 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.520 then I had the drugs. And I got to say 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.520 that the drugs was only a relatively short period of time, 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.880 like two years, compared to you know, I gambled really 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.840 from when I was sixteen years old, But the drugs 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.400 was just ten times harder to get off than the 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.359 gambling was. And it's just that physical addiction, Like I 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.960 feel like gambling is more of an emotional sort of attachment. Yes, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.000 you still get cravings and you know, you still get 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.640 the urges to do it, but you don't get the 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.200 physical withdrawals that you do when you're trying to get 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:12.840 off drugs. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.080 And that's ultimately lie A lot. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.680 Of people will just keep taking them because the feelings 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.000 you get when you're not taking them are just that 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.520 strong that you just you just got to take them, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.400 like you just can't go through that. You know, we're 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.560 going through your physical withdrawal stage of a detox. Is 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.320 you know that first seventy two hours is the most painful. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:35.480 Tell me about that. 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.080 I actually remember it was one stage where you know, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.480 I was I was still taking the drugs and I'm 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.320 going to get a little bit medical here, like talking 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:46.160 about the drugs. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:47.680 But I never thought you would be. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.000 I was still so I was still taking the drugs, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:52.880 and I said that I think I said to Kelly. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.200 This was once of many times I said no, I'm 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:56.600 not going to I'm going to stop taking them. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.120 I'm just going to get off from now. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.000 And I actually said, Kelly, there was a drug that 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.200 I had. It was called nel trexone, and it's a 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.840 drug that basically blocks any feeling you get from taking opioids. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:10.680 And I said to her, I said, I want you 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.600 to start administering me this every day. But what actually 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.920 happened was it actually, if you still have opioids in 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.360 your system and you take that drug, it actually brings 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.880 on like physical withdraw real hard and instantly. And this 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.120 was something I had no idea about. So I'd taken 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.360 the drugs in the night before and I said to Kelly, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.280 I said, I want you to start giving me these 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:35.760 blockers the next day. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:37.400 So she did and she gave it to me. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.360 But we had no idea that it was going to 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.559 look like literally bring on withdrawal straight away. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.440 And God, that. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.280 Was painful, Like I remember, like within I think I 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.040 was in bed and she had just left and she 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.160 gave it to me, and then like literally within thirty minutes, 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.000 I just started feeling like real bad, just getting real 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.360 fidgety and then sweating. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.920 Yeah, a lot of vomit. Like it's it's pretty intense. 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.880 I'd been through it once before, but this time was 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.520 like much worse because it was brought on really fast. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.000 So he took I took myself off to the emergency. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.760 Actually, someone had leaked it to the media as well, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.320 so the media actually got a hold of the fact 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.720 that I was in the emergency section of the hospital. Yeah, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.480 basically they were able to get it under control with 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.760 you know, some other drugs that helped sort of ease 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.880 the intense physical withdrawals, and then I was transferred from there. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.840 I was transferred over to another rehab where I stayed 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.720 for like I think seven or eight days. Like once 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.280 you're in like rehab facilities, they're able to assist you 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.800 with medications and stuff, so they sort of so it's 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.400 not as intense that that's. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:49.200 First seventy two hours. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.880 So but I guess to answer your question, physical withdrawal is. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:55.680 It's hell, it's not. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.280 And that's that's literally why people continue to take the 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.760 drugs because their brains, like you know, obviously the chemistry 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:04.880 and the pathways and their brain have now changed, and 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.040 they need that drug to function day to day because 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:09.960 literally if they don't have it, their brains telling them 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.120 that they're going to die. So they continue to take it. 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.480 And it's not even about the feeling. It's about just functioning, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.520 Like you can't function without it. So for me, that 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.160 was exactly the same. Like at the start, I like 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.440 the way it made me feel, like, you know, it 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.320 numbed a lot of the pain and a lot of 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.079 the grief that I was going through, and I liked 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.800 that feeling. But in the end, like it was literally 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.320 just about it became like, you know, I have any 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.160 depressants now, so it's the first thing that I take 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:39.720 in the morning. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:42.240 It was literally just like that. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.080 It became like that, it was like part of my 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.520 routine that I'd take these drugs. You still I could function. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.320 It wasn't even about the feeling that it gave me, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.400 because that sort of wears off over time and then 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:52.560 your tolerance. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:52.800 Just builds up. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.000 So when you're when you say drugs, what were you taking. 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.760 Really anything that was there's sort of downers, which are 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.240 your benzo diazepines, which you're like you're sleeping tablets the 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.040 class of drugs. And then you've got your opioids, which 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.600 are you're like your pain relief medications, like you know, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.280 really strong pain relief. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.520 Were you in any physical from footy or anything, or 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.560 is this just you're abusing those I. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:20.080 Was abusing them. 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.400 Yeah, there's you know, look, I'd had a fair few 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:25.760 surgeries in the last four years of my career. I 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.520 think I had seven rounds of surgery in the last 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.160 sort of four years that I played, So obviously, you know, 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.480 I'd had access to them, and I knew the feeling 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.400 that they gave me, so but no, I would literally 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:38.560 just abuse them. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.360 So these were just leftovers from those surgeries essentially. Or 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.160 how did you actually access. 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.719 Oh, I could tell you some of the ways that 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.400 I accessed them. You know, look, I reckon, I've been 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:55.320 to probably thirty or forty different gps around Melbourne. There 0:11:55.400 --> 0:12:00.360 was actually stages where this is you know, how badly 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.720 you actually need these things? I was actually I would 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.360 actually google There was one instance and I won't name 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.480 this doctor or or the clinic that it was at, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:13.800 because look, I abused him and I took advantage of him, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.240 but I'd found his profile, like he had a profile 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.120 on their GP page and he had that he was 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:24.880 a Collingwood supporter. So literally I rang this doctor's clinic. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:26.240 It was over the other side of town. There was 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.439 no one even near me, and I don't know how. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:33.280 I basically just bullshitted and shit talked my way to 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.120 seeing him. And then basically, yeah, you just find ways. 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:38.920 You just find ways to get this stuff. 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.520 But you use your profile essentially. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.400 Yeah, yeah, I would use you know, you manipulate people. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:45.280 That's what you do. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.280 You become a full time manipulator, liar. You just do 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:54.040 whatever you need to do to get what you need. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.680 And that's look, that's the that's the ship thing about addicts. 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.320 Like a lot of the time addicts will you know, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.520 steal like I never stole. That was one thing I 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.520 never did, Like, I never stole from anyone. I certainly borrowed, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.680 you know, particularly with the gambling, Like I borrowed money, 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.240 but that was you know, people, I think people knew 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.640 what I was doing, but you know, I never actually 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:23.679 took anything without asking for it or I know there 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.040 was rumors at one stage that you know, I was 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.959 stealing other players credit cards and stuff like that, and 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.400 that never happened. So you know, I never stole or 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.680 did anything like that, but I certainly lied to a 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.640 lot of people. That's the sort of thing that it 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.160 does to like, it just turns you into this shit 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.719 person and a completely different person to who you are, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:45.560 and that's like, you know, you lose a lot of 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.280 friends over that, and you also gain people in your 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.960 life as well that you don't think, you know, we're 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.080 maybe that you were that close with. So certain people 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.720 step up and then certain people fall off. But I 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.000 guess that's just the evolution of it. And you certainly 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.679 don't hold anything over people for that because at the 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.000 end of the day, you've got to take responsibility for actions. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.520 And I made those choices and I got myself into 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:10.360 that mess. So it is what it is, and I 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.120 guess you just have to move on with life. 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.840 How much were you taking at the worst at the 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.160 peak of the addiction. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.480 God, I think the most I ever you know, to 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.520 give you a bit of I guess contexts. 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.440 I don't know. Have you ever had surgery. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.560 I've had surgery, Yeah, I haven't. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.480 Have you ever had the oxycote and the end don't? 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.840 No, I don't actually think I know. I had a 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.080 morphine shot once heading into a appendicitis, and it turned 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:43.000 me paranoid. The first one I went real paranoid, real quick, 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.600 and the second one knocked me out. But I realized 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.960 there's probably a reason why I've never been a drug taker. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:49.880 It doesn't agree with me. There's something in my brain 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:50.880 that tells me that. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.320 Well, most people, most people have different reactions to drugs, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.480 And like I tell people now like open how much 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.920 I took, and they're like, holy shit, you know one 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.600 of them and it just puts me to sleep. But 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.120 like the end Dome and the opioids, they never put 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.920 me to sleep. Actually made me sort of more like 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.720 I had a numbing feeling, but it never made me 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.640 drowsy or anything like that. The most I overtook were 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.360 talking in milligrams, So basically, one End Dome tablet is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.560 five milligrams of oxycodone. The most I ever took, I 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.400 think was about one hundred and twenty milligrams, So to 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.160 give you a context, that's twenty four tablets in one day. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.040 In one hit. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.760 Yeah, in one hit, so you get a pack. So 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.720 when you get out of surgery, you have you get 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.040 a pack of twenty. So I would have that pack 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:45.960 and four more. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.680 I'm showing my navity there. Are you lucky to be 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.280 alive taking that amount? 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.600 Well, you don't, you don't certainly don't take that amount 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.720 straight away, like you know, I started, I think at two, 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.760 so two tablets, and this. 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:00.240 Is how bad it can get real us. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.200 This drug is really really potent, and that's it's an 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.800 epidemic over in the States. 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.480 Well, I was going to bring that up because there 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.640 are so many documentaries about this and the way that 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.200 it wasn't They don't have the same laws here over 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.880 there as we do here. It is actually, despite the 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.200 stories that you've just told, it is actually pretty good 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.000 here from a medical point of view. When you see 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.640 those stories from the States, because a lot of them 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.560 end up turning to heroin and things like that. Did 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.120 that get that bad for you? 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.080 No? I don't think I would have, and I can't 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.440 ever say I guess that I wouldn't have. But the 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.160 thought I certainly, the thought of putting a needle inside 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.360 me was never something that I always thought, like even 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.640 at my worst, like when I was highly addicted, I 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.600 never contemplated that, and the thought of that made me 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.720 like want to just like but I wanted to get 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.040 off them, Like so no, I don't. I don't think 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.760 I would have ever gotten that bad. But look, you 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.159 never know, like two more years of taking that and 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.040 building up a tolerance. I was already out of high tolerance. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.320 But you know, I've heard stories of people taking well 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.960 over two hundred milligrams. So you just build a tolerance. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.080 So you know, like I said, I started taking two 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.000 tablets and within two years, I was taking twenty four 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:22.639 of them. You know, you just take more. It's like 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.120 you go to the gym. You started eighty kilos bench PRIs. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.080 You know, you keep going to the gym, you aout 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.760 to lift more. Sort of same sort of concept, you know, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.560 you basically the more you do it, the more you 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.399 can take. And everyone has that reaction when I tell them, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.560 they're like they nearly fall over, Like, but like, it's 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.960 a lot. There's no doubting that it's a lot of drugs. 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.280 But I understand how I got to that point. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.520 Did anyone else know that you? Like, did was kel 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.760 aware of how much you were taking. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:53.760 I don't know. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.880 I don't think she was aware of how much I 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.960 was taking. But she's been with me, We've been together 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.560 twelve years now. She knew every time that I was 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.280 on them, because you lose color in your face, like 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.560 you know, there's certain characteristics, and I'm sure she'd be 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.800 able to answer this more than I can. But she 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.520 just knew, like she would always know. And in the end, 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.520 she got to the point where she would, you know, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.320 she just worried about the kids. She'd like, literally, just 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.639 I'll just continue lying. She just had two kids to 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.720 look after him. She got to the point where she 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.320 stopped trying to control me, like she just let me 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.800 do it basically. That obviously had its consequences after I 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:40.119 got cleaned and started to rebuild my life again. But yeah, 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.320 at that point in time, I think she'd just had enough. 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.480 How bad did things get? What were some of the 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.160 things that you did whilst high? Do you say high 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.280 when it's painkillers terminal? 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.639 I mean you are you are high intoxicated? Like I 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.200 don't know you Like for me, it was just about living. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.880 Like I would never say that I'm getting high today 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.480 or anything like that. It was just like I said, 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.000 it just became part of my routine. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.480 You know. The hardest thing for me was I. 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.560 Wanted together, Like I just hated what I was doing, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.320 Like I genuinely hated it, and it caused me so 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:21.639 much guilt ultimately, like you know, like I tried to 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.439 harm myself. You know, I crashed myself in, crushed my 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.960 car into a pole deliberately, and. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.960 It was just because I had I had enough. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.679 I didn't want to do what I was doing anymore, 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.119 Like I couldn't keep doing it, but I couldn't stop. 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.960 Like so it's like that conflicting you know, like my 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.720 brain Like inside me, I was like, this is not 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.600 who I am, this is not the person I want 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.280 to be. But at the same time, it's like I 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.760 just can't stop doing this, like I can't, Like it 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.040 was just like it was part of me, and I 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.160 was like I'd just never seen any sort of life 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.159 without it. Whilst you're in the grips of it, you 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.560 can't see a life without it. That's the beauty about 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.600 being able to help people now is because you actually 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.480 know what they're feeling. Like I literally can put myself 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.520 in their shoes and literally I know what they're thinking, 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:12.000 but I also now know that it's possible, like I'm 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:12.960 living proof. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.719 Of it, And that's why you speak up, isn't it. 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.080 Yeah, that's the only reason why I do. I know 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.760 for myself. I know myself, like being able. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.600 To relate to lived experience. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.400 Yeah, Like being able to talk to someone who'd actually 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:29.320 been through it was like so much better than talking 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.760 to it. And this is no disrespect to psychologists and 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.560 psychiatrists because they've certainly helped me, but in another way. 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.480