1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Now we know that there was an explosive claim made 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: late yesterday that the reason for the abrupt departure of 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: the Chief Minister was because there is an IKAC investigation underway. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Robin Lamley joins me on the line right now. She 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: is the Independent member Fararah lun Good morning, Robin. 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: Robin, you have confirmed that you have referred Michael Gunner 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: to the IKAT what for so. 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: Late last year, the Northern Territory Independent online newspaper printed 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: a story written by Christopher Walsh making allegations that the 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 2: Chief Minister and his ministers and staff had undertaken multiple 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: trips to remote marginal seats during the twenty twenty caretaker 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: period the period leading up to the Northern Territory general 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: election in twenty twenty, which were in breach of the 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: caretaker provisions, and alleging that they were used to campaign 16 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: to purely for the purposes of campaigning and not for 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: ministerial business as they should have been used for. So 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: the allegations were to the tune of about forty thousand 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 2: dollars of travel allegedly misappropriated or missed, the misuse of 20 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: public funding for political campaigning now I read that story, Katie, 21 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: and I found the story compelling. The evidence that Christopher 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: Walsh put in his story was damning, and so I 23 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: referred the matter to AKAK, as did the opposition. 24 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: So, Robin, obviously you think that money or you know, 25 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: the accusation here is that money has been used to 26 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: hire planes or to travel to remote communities throughout an 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: election campaign taxpayer money when you're not actually allowed to 28 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: do that during the campaigning period. Is that correct? 29 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: That's correct? Look, Katie, I'm also very mindful that this 30 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: is being investigated by IKAK, and I don't want to 31 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: influence that investigation. My sole purpose in coming out yesterday 32 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: was to provide information to Territorians that they needed to know, 33 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: and that is Michael Gunner is being investigated by IKAK. 34 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: It was confirmed by the IKA Commissioner. Just by chance, 35 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: randomly last week. I thought, what's happening with that referral 36 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: I made many months ago. I sent him an email 37 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: and said, are you investigating this matter? His email came 38 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 2: back to me, yes, I am investigating the matter, very 39 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: very simple, basic. I then clarified with him, am I 40 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: able to go public on this? And he said, I 41 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 2: can't tell you what to do. You're not bound by 42 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: confidentiality that I can't advise you. But he did say, however, 43 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: it would be advantageous to the investigation if he held 44 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 2: off for a couple of weeks because they're still collecting information. 45 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: I said, yep, that's fine, happy to do that. I committed. 46 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: I told him that I would go public on it 47 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: next week. But after what happened yesterday, the sudden resignation 48 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: of the Chief Minister, I then texted him and said, 49 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: circumstances have change and I'm going to go public on 50 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: it today, which was estiny. So really need to know, Katie, 51 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: this is about the integrity of our democracy. 52 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that there is legitimacy to this and 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: the Chief Minister standing down? Do you think that these 54 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: two things have something to do with each other. 55 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: I think there's a distinct possibility that that is the case, 56 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: and I've always maintained that there are no such thing 57 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: as coincidences in politics. 58 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: So Robin, essentially what you're saying is that you don't 59 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: feel that he's resigned for the reasons that he stipulated. 60 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: I think that's probably half the story. 61 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: Now, he was asked about this yesterday at a press 62 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: conference and he reckons it's not the reason. Do you 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: buy that? 64 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: No, I don't. I think he knows that this investigation 65 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: is underway. I think you can answer a question depending 66 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: on how it's asked, in many ways, and he probably 67 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: thinks that he's answered that truthfully, but there's probably many 68 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: ways he could have answered it. Look, I don't know. 69 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: The answer to that question is I don't know, But 70 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 2: I just think Territorians need to know that their chief 71 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: Minister former Chief Minister is currently being investigated by IKAQ 72 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: and these allegations are very very serious to my mind, 73 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: In fact that I read the whole of the report, 74 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: the story written by Christopher Walsh from the NTA Independent 75 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: onto Parliamentary handsard onto the Parliamentary Record in December because 76 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: I was so horrified by the nature of the allegations. 77 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: I then referred it to the IKAK Commissioner, and then 78 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: I said through about one hundred questions to the Chief 79 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: Minister through the Legislative Assembly written question process, asking for 80 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: further details on about eleven trips that this matter pertains to, 81 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: and he failed to answer any of them. Well, Robi 82 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: did not answer any of those written questions that I 83 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: put to him, and that's all on the website, the 84 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 2: Legislative Assembly website. You can go to that and see 85 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: where he said I have answered all these questions previously. 86 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: That's not the case. 87 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: Well, Robin, I'll be really interested to see what happens here. 88 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: And I think that this is an important part of 89 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: the story, you know. Like you've said, I think that 90 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: it's important to make sure that territory are aware of 91 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 1: everything that's going on behind the scenes as well. Robin, 92 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: who do you think should step into the role now 93 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: as the chief minister? 94 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I don't really back any of them, Codie. 95 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: I come from Central Australia and over the last five 96 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: years the quality of our life has gone downhill. Crime 97 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: has escalated to levels I've never seen before. I've lived 98 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: in Alice Springs for almost thirty years. I've never seen 99 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: crime like this. I don't really back any of them. 100 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: But if I was to say who do I think 101 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 2: has the ability and the commitment to lead, I would 102 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: say it's Natasha Philes. I think she's the hardest working, 103 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: most competent out of all of them that you know 104 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: from a Central Australian perspective, they all fail this miserably. 105 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: Robin on that. Let's talk about the budget. What did 106 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: you make of that budget yesterday? Was there anything much 107 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: in it for the people of Alice Springs? 108 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: Look not really nothing new. I mean it's all sort 109 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: of rehashed stuff. It's all been announced. But the budget 110 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: was underwhelming. And you know, who has heard of a 111 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: treasurer delivering their budget and we then seconds resigning and 112 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: running away. I think that speaks volumes about this budget 113 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: and this government. For the Treasurer and Chief Minister to 114 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: run away seconds after he tables his budget in Parliament, 115 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: that's an indictment of where we're at with this government. 116 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: Things are pretty bad. And the tone and the mood 117 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: in the chamber last night was one of it was somber. 118 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: They're all sort of out the back doing the numbers. 119 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: Obviously not many of them sitting in the chamber. I 120 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: think there is thrown by this is what we all are. 121 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: And now, of course they're going to be fighting over 122 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: who's going to leave them well, who gets the poison chalice. 123 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: It's certainly going to be interesting and I know the 124 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: well acting Chief Minister Nicole Madison was on the show 125 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: just a couple of minutes ago. She reckons it's not 126 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: going to turn into a fight, that they'll have a 127 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: decision by Friday, but she wouldn't say yes or no 128 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: whether she's prepared to put her hand up. I feel 129 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: as though, you know, Territorians do deserve to have a 130 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: bit of an understanding about who's going to have a 131 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: tilt here. At the end of the day, it's Territorians 132 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: who vote people in. They thought lik him or loathing 133 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: that Gunner was going to be the chief Minister, you know, 134 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: for a bit longer. So you know, I actually think 135 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: that those caucus members should come out and be honest 136 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: about whether they're planning to have a run or not. 137 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Katie. I will tell you that Joel Badden has 138 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: cleared his diary. Him and I have several commitments over 139 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks, and I was informed that 140 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: those commitments are no longer going to be happening. I 141 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: won't give you any detail because I'll get wrapped over 142 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 2: the knuckles. That he's clear desire for the next two weeks, 143 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: which I think is very interesting. 144 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: So you reckon he wants to slot in there. 145 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Why else would he clear his dog for the 146 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: next couple of weeks. 147 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: Who knows. 148 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: That would be an indicator for me that he's certainly 149 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: throwing his hat in the ring and he's thinking big. 150 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: He's thinking he's not going to be available for his 151 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: current commitments going forward. So interesting he most certainly is 152 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: it certainly is. It's absolutely chaos in the chamber. The 153 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: Chief Minister is actually still the Chief Minister. I think 154 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: they haven't changed the administrative orders. He's still he's still 155 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: the Chief Ministry, is still the Treasurer. I think he's 156 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: technically on leave, and yet he wasn't in Parliament yesterday afternoon. 157 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: It's all very strange given that he's just had two 158 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 2: weeks paternity. 159 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: Lee Well, Robin Ladley is going on. Yeah, it's anyone's guess, 160 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: I think at the moment. Robin Ladley the Independent Member 161 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: for Aralu. And we always appreciate good time. Thank you 162 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: for chatting with us today.