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Speaker 1: Joining me right now from the Northern Territory Police Association. Well,

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Speaker 1: the head of the Northern Territory Police Association, Nathan Finn,

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katy, and good morning to you listen.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do want to kick off with the fact

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Speaker 1: that questions have been raised in recent days about police

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Speaker 1: resourcing after Darwin jockey Sonya Wiseman said that she was

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Speaker 1: attacked outside her home in the early hours of the

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Speaker 1: morning on the weekend, with a rock shattering her car

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Speaker 1: window and attackers breaking her nose and teeth. Now, Sonya

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Speaker 1: told us that a large group had set upon her

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Speaker 1: when she then called Triple zero, the police didn't come. Now,

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Speaker 1: Security came to her aid, as did Saint John Ambulance

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Speaker 1: and they rendered assistance with her injuries. The Assistant Commissioner

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Speaker 1: Travis Willis told us on the show yesterday that the

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Speaker 1: call was categorized as a Category two and police are

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Speaker 1: on the road responding to Category one incidents. But Nathan,

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Speaker 1: I think the real question here is do we have

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Speaker 1: enough police on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Katie. You've heard me speak before in relationship the resource

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Speaker 2: numbers of the Northern Territory Police. I can categorically say

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Speaker 2: that we haven't got enough resources neither here or there.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, we're less on the road here in

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Speaker 2: Darhen what we had ten years ago. So our numbers

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Speaker 2: of police and a number of vans rolling around to

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Speaker 2: jobs and being able to respond to incidents from ten

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Speaker 2: years ago is more than what we've currently got today.

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Speaker 2: Even though the given for the demand has increased through

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Speaker 2: the roof, the calls for our services have increased through

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Speaker 2: the roof, but yet we've still got a platform that

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Speaker 2: we're operating on that's from fifteen years ago. To say

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Speaker 2: that we couldn't attend, I feel sorry for Sonya and

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Speaker 2: I feel sorry for the people of the community that

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Speaker 2: actually call upon us to actually come out and ask

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Speaker 2: for our assistants. Our members are struggling, We're dealing with that,

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Speaker 2: going to jobs, being the front face of this organization

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Speaker 2: and copying that abuse from the members of the public.

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Speaker 2: It's not fair these system Commissions is not the one

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Speaker 2: out there getting that criticism, Okay. I think they need

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Speaker 2: to have a realistic approach and speak about it real

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Speaker 2: that we haven't got enough numbers to do what we

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Speaker 2: need to do. We haven't got a surge capacity for

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Speaker 2: when this sort of information happens.

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Speaker 1: Is it upsetting then for Northern Territory police officers not

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Speaker 1: being able to respond to incidents.

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Speaker 2: Like that, they definitely feel unsupported, Katie. They haven't got

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Speaker 2: the ability to attend to even assist the members of

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Speaker 2: the public. They sign up to help members of the

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Speaker 2: public in their darkest hour and when they need police,

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Speaker 2: they're not getting the police that they deserve.

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Speaker 1: So tell me how you mentioned you know we don't

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Speaker 1: have well, we've got less police than what we did

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Speaker 1: ten years ago. How are those police numbers looking? Because

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Speaker 1: that review is meant to get underway.

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Speaker 3: Is it underway? Yes? Firstly, I guess Katie.

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Speaker 2: No, I've been meeting with the government. I've been speaking

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Speaker 2: to the Minister. I've actually got a meeting next week

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Speaker 2: to finalize the terms of reference in relation to the

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Speaker 2: resource allocation review and the other obviously important factors that

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Speaker 2: go along with a fatigue management policy minimum safe staffing numbers,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. For our members. But I can say that

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Speaker 2: something needs to be done now in relation to resourcing

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Speaker 2: our police force. I cannot wait another six months. I

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Speaker 2: cannot wait for another member to burn out. I cannot

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Speaker 2: wait for another member to go on sick leave and

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Speaker 2: put the further risk to the other members. Obviously being

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Speaker 2: there every day in and out trying to do the

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Speaker 2: best possible job that they can. They are struggling. They

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Speaker 2: are struggling big time.

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Speaker 1: So meeting next week to determine the terms of reference

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Speaker 1: for that review.

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Speaker 3: How soon after do you reckon it's going to kick off?

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Speaker 1: And you know, like you said, you and I have

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Speaker 1: been talking about this for well since you've stepped into

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Speaker 1: the job. Obviously, Paul mcku have been talking about this,

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Speaker 1: your predecessor for quite some time. It's something that the

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Speaker 1: Association has been calling for for a really long time.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, we're obviously got a commitment from the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: government will be completed by the end of this year.

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Speaker 2: I cannot see that happening at this stage, how slow

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Speaker 2: we are actually moving. It's important to us to have this.

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Speaker 2: We have got the Northern Territory Gament to the table

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Speaker 2: and that's the main thing that we need to do.

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Speaker 2: Before we didn't have a commitment from them to actually

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Speaker 2: do it this year. We've got a commitment for them

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Speaker 2: to start it this year. And to finish it this year.

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Speaker 2: But I can't see that happening if we don't actually

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Speaker 2: get the ball rolling.

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Speaker 3: Why is it so important.

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Speaker 2: Two our members can be listened to and I have

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Speaker 2: an understanding of what they're going through because at the moment,

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Speaker 2: we're not being realistic, we're not being realistic that we've

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Speaker 2: got enough police to go to these jobs. Come out

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Speaker 2: and say that and support our members. They are the

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Speaker 2: ones that are struggling every day in relation to not

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Speaker 2: being able to to make a decision, a split decision

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Speaker 2: of which job they're going to go to, which job

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Speaker 2: they're not going to go to, and often prioritize outside

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Speaker 2: of their ability. They don't know what's on the screen,

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Speaker 2: they don't know what's available, they don't know where the

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Speaker 2: jobs are. But again, we haven't got the resource to

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Speaker 2: attend to the jobs that are being reported.

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Speaker 1: Now. This recent People Matters survey has also been released.

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Speaker 1: It indicates that eighty seven percent of police respondents contribute

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Speaker 1: to the workplace above and beyond their job descriptions. A

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Speaker 1: clear indication, you say, of their dedication and commitment to

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Speaker 1: serving the Northern Territory community. And I think that you

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Speaker 1: know what you've said, there is spot on people understand

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Speaker 1: that our police are doing a really tough job under

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Speaker 1: difficult circumstances.

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Speaker 3: What else does this survey tell us?

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Speaker 1: Now, this is that's a survey that's actually conducted by

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 3: This is not a police association survey.

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Speaker 2: Is as definitely not and I'd like to make that clear.

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Speaker 2: This is a government survey done of all their current

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Speaker 2: obviously public sector stuff. And again it's highlighted through the

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Speaker 2: number of agencies that obviously respond to that. I can say, Katie,

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Speaker 2: is the people matter survey or is it the people

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Speaker 2: don't matter survey? And that's what I go to the

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Speaker 2: government with. If we do matter, why don't you listen

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Speaker 2: to what we're actually saying in the survey and actually

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Speaker 2: do something about it? Okay? And members continually raise these

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Speaker 2: points of view. They haven't got the confidence for members

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Speaker 2: to raise issues in their workplace with their senior management.

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Speaker 2: Ask yourself, why why is that the case? Like, seriously,

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Speaker 2: they're not supported, so why even do a survey? And

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Speaker 2: members will get to the point of why do we

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Speaker 2: even bother? If they say we matter, but we won't

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Speaker 2: really matter, do we At the end of the day

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Speaker 2: because they're not listening.

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Speaker 1: Now what else like in terms of some of the

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Speaker 1: other the numbers that have come through, I can see

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Speaker 1: that only sixteen percent of respondents believe that the organization

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Speaker 1: took appropriate action following the last People Matter survey. I

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Speaker 1: mean that in itself is a concern. If you're going

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Speaker 1: to do a survey, you've actually got to act upon

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Speaker 1: the results of a survey, which I find quite astonishing.

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Speaker 1: Then why does the government go through the process of

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Speaker 1: even bothering if there's no action following the survey results.

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Speaker 2: Definitely there's no action on thems taken out of this survey.

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Speaker 2: There's no further up follow up meetings with us or

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Speaker 2: with our members in relation to what their answers are.

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Speaker 2: I received advice from the Acting Commissioner this morning that

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Speaker 2: they haven't given me a briefing in relation to the results,

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Speaker 2: and he said there's some positive stuff in I can't

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Speaker 2: see the positive results. I can only see the negative

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Speaker 2: and where we're spiraling downhill in relation to their obligations

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Speaker 2: first as the employer and the Northern Territory government in

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Speaker 2: assisting us to do our job.

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Speaker 1: I can see as well, fifty five percent of respondents

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Speaker 1: agree or strongly agree they feel burned out by their

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Speaker 1: work and more than half of the respondents frequently experience

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Speaker 1: work related stress.

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Speaker 2: And I can guarantee the fifty five percent of those

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Speaker 2: members will be of fifty five percent of GDS, which

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Speaker 2: is one hundred percent of THEIRS General Duties members, especially

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Speaker 2: in Darwin, that are actually struggling to do their job

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Speaker 2: every day, and they are struggling to attend to work

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Speaker 2: every day because of the struggle they're currently having in

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Speaker 2: the stresses that it's placing him under.

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Speaker 1: Now speaking of some of the stresses or some of

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Speaker 1: the different things that are happening, we know that the

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Speaker 1: age of criminal responsibility it was raised to twelve on

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Speaker 1: August one, the Northern Territory government saying the programs are

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Speaker 1: in place to ensure this was the responsible thing to do.

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Speaker 1: What's been the reaction from rank and file officers.

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Speaker 2: As we know, Katie, this won't stop crime. It means

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Speaker 2: that youth won't be heard and accountable for their actions

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Speaker 2: and their behavior when they're on obviously age of ten

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Speaker 2: or twelve. This will not make the community safe for

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Speaker 2: at all. In the end, we still have to investigate

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Speaker 2: those offenses being committed. We just can't take any prosecution

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Speaker 2: action against them. So the work's still there for our

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Speaker 2: members to do that. But again, we cannot take any

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Speaker 2: prosecution action against these children now.

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Speaker 1: And then, from what I could gather based on what

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Speaker 1: I'd been told last week by the Northern Territory Police,

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Speaker 1: it seems as though, as you've just touched on, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you've still got to do that work. If there is

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Speaker 1: a child that does engage in crime or does the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing, you then you're having to pick them up,

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Speaker 1: but the process has changed, so you're then sort of

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Speaker 1: handing them over I believe to territory families.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, Katie, So we hand them over territory families.

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Speaker 2: They tell me there's a number of programs in place.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been briefed on the number of programs that

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Speaker 2: they've got in place, and what level of scrutiny these

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Speaker 2: programs are going to be under, and what obviously these

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Speaker 2: programs are undertaken by these youths. I'd like to know

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Speaker 2: from the government, and I'm sure the members of the

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Speaker 2: public would like to know too, What are these programs

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Speaker 2: in tail? What are we sending him out? Bush to

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Speaker 2: seven emas that hardly gets used, or is it we

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Speaker 2: sending them to another program in town. I'm not quite sure.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been briefed on it. Again, it's not our

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Speaker 2: portfolio obviously to know what Territory Families do, but our

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Speaker 2: members would like to know as well. Yeah, was there

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Speaker 2: any consequences for what they're doing?

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Speaker 1: Well, I believe we've got the Police Minister and Territory

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Speaker 1: Families Minister Kate Warden on the show tomorrow morning, so

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Speaker 1: we'll see what.

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Speaker 3: We can find out. Now, what about the bail review?

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Speaker 1: Members happy with with the results or with I guess

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Speaker 1: the action that the Northern Territory Government's announced following on

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Speaker 1: from that bail review last week.

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Speaker 2: We still believe that we've got our hands tied information

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Speaker 2: coming from our members that hasn't gone far enough. In

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Speaker 2: relation to the obviously the bail review the presumption of

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Speaker 2: bail show of view and extended to include the offensive

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Speaker 2: weapons or any object that work in the cause fear

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Speaker 2: harm to another person. We believed there are some improvements

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Speaker 2: obviously they've made, including of the axes and machetes in

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Speaker 2: the description of knife, but also a number of our

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Speaker 2: members obviously suffer assaults because of spears, et cetera. And well,

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Speaker 2: they're not included in this bail review. They haven't been included,

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Speaker 2: haven't been spoken about, even though the Ball review talks

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Speaker 2: about the number of assaults that our members go through

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Speaker 2: in relation to getting spears thrown out of et cetera.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to extend it further to include

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Speaker 2: the offensive weapons.

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Speaker 1: And have you indicated that to the minister? That is

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Speaker 1: what you like, that that is what you guys wanted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Again, we weren't part of the bail review. Again,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to be able to make comment in relation

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Speaker 2: to that Ball review and be a part of that

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Speaker 2: on behalf of our members. A number of executive members

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Speaker 2: for the Northern Treasury Police were part of that. But

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Speaker 2: again we weren't consulted until after the report's actually released.

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Speaker 2: Actually the morning of they come and done the media

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Speaker 2: relation to the bar review and the outcome of that.

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Speaker 2: That was the first time I'd received the review report.

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Speaker 1: And so then if that is the case, what's the

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Speaker 1: process then in terms of you being able to kind

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Speaker 1: of articulate what is or isn't happening then to those

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Speaker 1: members of the association.

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Speaker 2: It makes it very difficult, Katie, and it makes it

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Speaker 2: very difficult for me. I was on the run obviously

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Speaker 2: last week with the announcement of the minimum major criminal responsibility,

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Speaker 2: the Baer review laws raising the age, and the wanding legislation,

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Speaker 2: which I had no knowledge of a bit prior to that.

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Speaker 2: Actually the media coming out, I received updates and updates

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Speaker 2: from the government also the Police Minister, Police Minister and

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Speaker 2: Commissioner of Police information that after they announced these and so.

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Speaker 1: With the knife crime strategy or the changes that they're

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Speaker 1: announcing with that the wanding, you know, we know that

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Speaker 1: they are in the process right now of procuring those

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Speaker 1: sort of warns and making sure that officers know exactly

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Speaker 1: how it's all going to work. From your perspective, is

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Speaker 1: it pretty sort of clear or the.

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Speaker 2: Legislation is convoluted. It's complicated for our members to determine

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Speaker 2: whether they can or whether they can't declare an area

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Speaker 2: certain and asks for the request for the approval, and

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Speaker 2: members won't have that information on hand at the forefront

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Speaker 2: of what they're doing. But Katie, we go back to

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Speaker 2: have we got enough numbers to implement this legislator, we

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Speaker 2: have all the legislation in the world. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: we can act on it if we haven't got the

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Speaker 2: resource to do what we need to do in relation

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Speaker 2: to keeping the community.

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Speaker 1: So just sort of talking about those declared areas and

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Speaker 1: things like that, you say that members are saying that

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Speaker 1: that legislation is not really clear.

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Speaker 3: So are they.

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Speaker 1: Concerned now about kind of having to having to know

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Speaker 1: to implement it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, there's a lot of concern out there how

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Speaker 2: they're going to do it. We've got a flow chart,

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Speaker 2: for an example, a flow chart of how the legislation

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Speaker 2: works and how members can follow through. There's thirty three

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Speaker 2: different pathways which they have to interpret make a decision

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Speaker 2: about whether they can make application for that area to

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Speaker 2: be declared for the twelve hours. Again, we haven't gone

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Speaker 2: far enough. We watered down the legislation from Queensland. Queensland

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Speaker 2: have obviously great legislation in relation to this. They have

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Speaker 2: designated areas where they can do it at certain times

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Speaker 2: of the day or night. Where we think that should

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Speaker 2: have been extended to that as well for our high

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Speaker 2: risk areas that they've identified through the alcohol policing strategies

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Speaker 2: and that sort of stuff. Or we believe that that

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Speaker 2: should have been example that these areas of high risk

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Speaker 2: for the community, and we should have had the ability

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Speaker 2: just to go in those areas at any time of

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Speaker 2: the day or night and have that ability to want.

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Speaker 1: So what's the process now, I suppose, like from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: what is going to be the process if you've got

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Speaker 1: police officers that are confused about this legislation?

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Speaker 3: Luck, is it going to run? Is it going to

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Speaker 3: flow smoothly? What's going to happen here?

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Speaker 2: I believe there's always teething issues when new legislation gets passed. Again,

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Speaker 2: depending on what the training packages and how the training

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Speaker 2: is obviously detailed to our members, I think we're going

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Speaker 2: to have some serious issues and how we're going to

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Speaker 2: actually manage this legislation. It's a great tool, Kadie, because

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Speaker 2: it gives us enough additional powers for when we're actually

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Speaker 2: searching for people in lawful custody, we can actually warn

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Speaker 2: them as well for the safety of our members and

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Speaker 2: obviously the safety of the member in custody. It gives

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Speaker 2: us greater powers to support those But again, I cannot

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Speaker 2: see how this is going to make any difference. I'll

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Speaker 2: put to you in your listeners how are police members

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Speaker 2: going to carry this device on them? Is it something

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Speaker 2: we're going to have a pocket for. Is it something

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Speaker 2: we're just going to slow over a back? Is something

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Speaker 2: we're going to raise in the air like a bat?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. And again, when members have got something

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Speaker 2: in the hand, what other options have they got? Have

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Speaker 2: they got options to grab any other fruitment? If a

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Speaker 2: stuff escalates, do we just drop it? We throw it?

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Speaker 2: How do we use it? Well?

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Speaker 1: I tell you, you know, there's certainly questions that are

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Speaker 1: going to need to be answered by the time the

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Speaker 1: legislation rolls out and by the time they.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're out there being used and utilized.

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Speaker 1: And I know there was a lot of questions still

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Speaker 1: last week, so I'm not surprised that there is still

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Speaker 1: questions from officers about it as well. Hey, before I

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Speaker 1: let you go, any update at this point in time

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Speaker 1: or any sort of further further word on the recruitment

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Speaker 1: of the police commissioner. I know that you're not involved

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Speaker 1: in it, but I'm sure that there's lots of people

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Speaker 1: wondering how far off we are from finding out who

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Speaker 1: the new police commission is going to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the advice I've received Katie in relation to

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Speaker 2: the new commissioner and the role of obviously going through

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Speaker 2: that process is that there are some interviews being taken

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Speaker 2: place earlier this month and we should have hopefully have

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Speaker 2: a decision which will go to cabinet later this month.

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Speaker 3: How important is it to you to get that role filled?

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Speaker 1: We know that that obviously we've got acting Commissioner Michael

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Speaker 1: Murphy in that role, but how important is it do

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Speaker 1: you think for our Northern Territory Police Force to know

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Speaker 1: who's going to be in that role?

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Speaker 2: And definitely we need the ownership of that at that

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Speaker 2: position and provide stability to all our members and obviously

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Speaker 2: us as well as the NTPA. I can guarantee that

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Speaker 2: their relationship with mister Murphy has been a very good

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Speaker 2: working relationship. Again, we have our issues which we're always

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Speaker 2: going to have, which we understand that and we've spoken

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Speaker 2: about that at great lengths. But again he's been willing

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Speaker 2: to come to the table and listen to our concerns,

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Speaker 2: which is greatly different to what's obviously occurred in the past.

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Speaker 1: Well, Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan Finn always appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Very much for joining us this morning.

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Speaker 2: And it's always a pleasure Katy to come in and

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Speaker 2: thank you for having me. And to our members out there,

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Speaker 2: please look after yourself and keep up the great work

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Speaker 2: you're doing and we do really respect what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Good on you, Nathan, thank you