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Speaker 1: But as we heard yesterday, Sky News has revealed that

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Government has reached a confidential settlement with

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Speaker 1: the Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: The former Children's Commissioner she's resigned now.

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Speaker 1: Colleen Gwym, and it is amid calls for an independent

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Speaker 1: investigation into the failed attempt to have her prosecuted for

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Speaker 1: abusive office. Now details of the settlement are not going

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Speaker 1: to be released, but the Northern Territory Government has confirmed

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Speaker 1: that she's left that role. They sent the statement out

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Speaker 1: yesterday saying that she had resigned from her position now.

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Speaker 1: Miss Gwinn's resignation comes six months after she was acquitted

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Speaker 1: over a charge of abusive office, and the case was

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Speaker 1: thrown out of the Northern Territory Supreme Court in March

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Speaker 1: when the prosecution conceded that it did not have enough

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Speaker 1: evidence to proceed with the case. The Opposition leader Leah

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Speaker 1: Fanocchiaro joins me on the line. Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie in to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, this is another confidential payout by the files government.

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Speaker 1: Should Territorians know how much the situation has cost? Well?

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Speaker 3: I think what's even more important, Katie is that Territorians

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Speaker 3: know what hand the Labor government had in this. It's

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Speaker 3: been widely reported over a long period of time that

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Speaker 3: this is all sort of come to a head because

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Speaker 3: the government wanted miss Gwinn out of that position, and

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Speaker 3: so I think it's just another example of Territorians not

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Speaker 3: getting the full picture from what.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean by what hands they had in it?

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Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that maybe they wanted her gone?

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Speaker 3: Well, that has been reported. It's been reported that they

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Speaker 3: wanted a different Children's commissioner. So I think it just

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Speaker 3: it really is a situation that raises more questions than

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Speaker 3: there are actually answers for. And I think, of all people,

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Speaker 3: the Minister for Territory Families, the Chief Minister need to

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Speaker 3: be providing some explanation about how all of this has happened,

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Speaker 3: because once again we've got a very senior official vacating

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Speaker 3: a position and a confidential payment that goes with that.

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Speaker 3: So clearly there's something something's going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what do you think about the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is indeed another confidential payout? You know, I

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Speaker 1: think that plenty of people would understand that obviously Msgwin's

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Speaker 1: contract had to be paid out, but do we deserve

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Speaker 1: to know just how much this has cost?

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Speaker 3: Well, I really want to know where the money has

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Speaker 3: come from. We know with the Chalker payout that it

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Speaker 3: came from the police bottom line, and so the serious

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Speaker 3: question that the government also hasn't answered is where is

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Speaker 3: this money coming from? Does it come from the Children's

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Speaker 3: Commissioner's budget or offer some other pot of money. But

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Speaker 3: ultimately that means there's going to be less service delivery

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Speaker 3: on the ground. So, like I said, Katie, there's plenty

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Speaker 3: of questions on this one, and as far as I

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Speaker 3: can see, the government's bearing its head now.

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Speaker 1: Some have called for an independent investigation in an attempt

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Speaker 1: to have Miss Gwinn prosecuted so you know we know

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Speaker 1: what's going on. The independent MLA Keizypiric has said that

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Speaker 1: the government should order an independent investigation. She's told Sky

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Speaker 1: News that the question remains, why was there such an

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Speaker 1: intense scrutiny and action and cost for what was basically

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Speaker 1: a HR matter. Do you think there needs to be

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Speaker 1: an independent investigation?

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Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly, at a minimum many questions that need

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Speaker 3: to be answered, Katie, and certainly I'm not sure if

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Speaker 3: that's within the remit of the EYECAC or not. But

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Speaker 3: there are plenty of scrutiny bodies that can provide that

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Speaker 3: level of oversight. But ultimately, why do we always have

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Speaker 3: to get to this point? You know, we have a

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Speaker 3: government that promised to be open and transparent, and it

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Speaker 3: seems that we're constantly having to try and force them

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Speaker 3: to disclose information give territories the real picture on what's

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Speaker 3: going on, when really they could just come forward and

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Speaker 3: be transparent with the community about the decisions they make.

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Speaker 1: All right, I do want to move along to the

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Speaker 1: fact that there's another code yellow in place at the hospital. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's for both the hospitals. It was called yesterday afternoon.

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Speaker 1: The Health Department reckons they will not have to defer

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Speaker 1: elective surgeries. I've lost count of how many of these

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Speaker 1: we've had now, but this does show that the system

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Speaker 1: is under pressure and needs serious investment. The government's announced

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Speaker 1: additional beds, but they really don't seem to be able

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Speaker 1: to get them online and serviceable soon enough. What do

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Speaker 1: you think needs to happen to relieve the pressure on

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Speaker 1: Royal Darwin and indeed Palmeston Hospital at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've got the data for you, Katie. So there

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Speaker 3: have been five code yellows at Darwin Royal Darwin this

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Speaker 3: year and six in Palmeston, and of course the eighteen

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Speaker 3: months preceding this year or well over a dozen. So

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Speaker 3: it's interesting that this time they're not canceling elective surgeries

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Speaker 3: because of course we've seen many Territorians affected and having

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Speaker 3: to live in chronic pain as a result of waiting.

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Speaker 3: But you know what needs to happen is we need

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Speaker 3: to be reducing demand for our hospitals through things like

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Speaker 3: compulsory alcohol reab We know that alcohol harm creates a

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Speaker 3: huge workload on our hospital, but equally we need to

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Speaker 3: be properly supporting our staff there. We've seen an enormous

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Speaker 3: churn through the hospital system, huge workloads over time from

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Speaker 3: nurses and doctors at levels that are unsustainable and dangerous

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Speaker 3: for themselves with fatigue management. So we have this system

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Speaker 3: totally understrain and under pressure. The Chief Minister is the

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Speaker 3: Health Minister, and yet we just see these rolling cold

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Speaker 3: yet code yellows and sort of a shrug of the

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Speaker 3: shoulders by government like as if that's normal operating practice.

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Speaker 3: It just isn't, and it's not acceptable. It's not acceptable

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Speaker 3: for the workforce, and it's not acceptable for our community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that we should be in a situation

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Speaker 1: like we are at the moment where we do seem

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Speaker 1: to be going from code yellow to code yellow. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have been told in recent weeks of elderly patients

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Speaker 1: waiting in ambulances outside of the hospital periods of time

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Speaker 1: while they wait to be able to get into the ED.

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Speaker 2: You know, these are.

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Speaker 1: Situations that nobody wants to see here in the Northern Territory. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we do see right around the nation at the moment

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Speaker 1: that it does seem to be that there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of hospitals that are under stress due to you know,

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Speaker 1: due to a lack of staff I suppose, But for

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Speaker 1: us in the territory, it seems to be ongoing. I mean, Leah,

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Speaker 1: are we in a situation though that we have to

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Speaker 1: accept that this is you know, it's the way that

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Speaker 1: things are. We're understressed because we don't get enough federal funding.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's something that we've heard on numerous occasions

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Speaker 1: from the AMA.

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Speaker 3: No, these are excuses, of course, no one's going to

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Speaker 3: say no to more federal funding. But money in and

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Speaker 3: of itself is not an answer. It doesn't drive outcomes,

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Speaker 3: It doesn't you know, money doesn't fix someone's knee or

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Speaker 3: ensure that there's a bed when you need it. So

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Speaker 3: we've also got to be looking at the structures of

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Speaker 3: our health system. Why aren't we attracting people? Why aren't

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Speaker 3: we retaining people? Katie. A huge part of that is crime,

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Speaker 3: and again it's the economic and social cost. People in

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Speaker 3: particularly our frontline workers are facing levels of abuse that

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Speaker 3: we've never seen before. On top of the crime they're

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Speaker 3: facing in their community that it is too much for

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Speaker 3: so many and people are leaving. It's then also having

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Speaker 3: an enormous impact on being able to attract staff. I

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Speaker 3: can't tell you how many businesses I meet with and

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Speaker 3: tell me that when they ask people to come to

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Speaker 3: the territory, people saying no way. And so the reputational

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Speaker 3: damage of crime is having a direct impact on our

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Speaker 3: ability to deliver healthcare in the territory. And that's why

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Speaker 3: it's so important to take back control of our streets

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Speaker 3: because literally everything else is falling apart around our laur

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Speaker 3: and audio issue.

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Speaker 2: You touched on this a moment ago.

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Speaker 1: You touched on the alcohol and alcohol obviously having an impact,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of the presentations to our emergency departments.

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Speaker 1: I mean we need to do something drastically like happened

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Speaker 1: in Alla Springs. Do we need to have alcohol restrictions

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Speaker 1: in place a couple of days a week right around

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Speaker 1: the territory to give some to ease some of the

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Speaker 1: pressure or on our health system.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we're just going to see huge spikes

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Speaker 3: on the other days, Katie. I don't think that's a

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Speaker 3: long term solution. What is a long term solution is

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Speaker 3: dealing with the root cause of the harm in the

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Speaker 3: first place. And that's why we can't understand why this

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Speaker 3: government doesn't want to support a compulsory rehabilitation for chronicly

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Speaker 3: affected alcoholics. And that's our policy. Our policy is to

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Speaker 3: make sure that people who are chronically affected by alcohol

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Speaker 3: causing harm to themselves, the community and their family I

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Speaker 3: dealt with appropriately and put into rehabilitation because we cannot

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Speaker 3: allow the continuation of that harm in our community. From

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Speaker 3: a crime perspective, from a social welfare perspective, from a

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Speaker 3: demand on our health services and policing perspective. There are

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Speaker 3: so many reasons why dealing with people's relationship to alcohol

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Speaker 3: is so much more effective in the long run than

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Speaker 3: it is to just shut the roller doors one day

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Speaker 3: a week.

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Speaker 1: All right, I want to move along because on Monday

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Speaker 1: I questioned the Deputy Chief Minister about the Chief Minister's

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Speaker 1: trip to the US with a staffer. Now, it has

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Speaker 1: cost more than ninety thousand dollars. But if you miss

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Speaker 1: the conversation with Nicole Madison, well, this is what we've learned.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I believe we've got some public servants also on

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Speaker 2: that trip. But what I would say, how much did

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Speaker 2: that cost for them to go? I don't have that

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Speaker 2: in front of me, but we can get that for you.

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Speaker 2: But what I will say, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Is so can I just clarify that that's on top

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Speaker 1: of the ninety two thousand dollars?

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Speaker 2: Of course, oh yes that would be.

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Speaker 1: But I just don't have that figure in front of me, Katie,

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Speaker 1: so Lea, we now know that it wasn't just the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister and one staffer. There's also two public servants.

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Speaker 1: Now it has been revealed again by this show that

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Speaker 1: we've got a situation where those two staff members. They've

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Speaker 1: confirmed that it was the I'm just trying to find

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Speaker 1: exactly who they were, but it was the Major Projects

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Speaker 1: Commissioner as well as senior Director of Investment.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of that, Well, we've.

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Speaker 3: Got a ninety two thousand dollars trip that's cost ten

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars a day. That's just for a Natasha filesand

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Speaker 3: two staff to go. Now we've got two additional public

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Speaker 3: servants attending. That's five people from the territory going to

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Speaker 3: the United States for what really has been an undisclosed trip.

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Speaker 3: I mean to just broadly say, a meeting with US

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Speaker 3: officials around our connection to the Marines is insufficient to

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Speaker 3: justify the spend. Now, most people can accept that from

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Speaker 3: time to time governments have to travel overseas and put

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Speaker 3: our best foot forward to do business. Now that is

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Speaker 3: critically important. But what is missing from this is the

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Speaker 3: transparency around the cost and the transparency around the justification

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Speaker 3: for a ten thousand dollars a day, nine day trip,

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Speaker 3: which now the bill is even higher. We don't know

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Speaker 3: how much more it's costing for these additional two public

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Speaker 3: servants to attend.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she says that the meeting with the Department

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Speaker 1: of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Bureau of Energy Resources,

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Speaker 1: the Australian Defense Force and the US Defense Force.

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Speaker 2: Is that good enough? Like, are they meetings that do

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Speaker 2: need to happen?

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Speaker 3: Well, they might be, but do they need to be

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Speaker 3: happening over a nine day period at a cost of

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Speaker 3: more than ten thousand dollars a day? I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: And nothing has been provided to the public to the

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Speaker 3: contrary to that. And also, let's not forget that defense

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Speaker 3: issues are actually a matter for the federal government. So

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Speaker 3: Natasha Files's influence and role in this is equally as

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Speaker 3: questionable because it doesn't appear to be some sort of

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Speaker 3: delegation with the federal government and the Federal Defense Minister.

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Speaker 3: So there's a total lack of justification for the cost.

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Speaker 3: We don't know what the outcomes of the meetings are

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Speaker 3: supposed to be, and there hasn't been the transparency from

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Speaker 3: the start. Let's not forget, you know, it's been dragged

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Speaker 3: out of them, the cost of the ninety two thousand,

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Speaker 3: it's been dragged out of them, the reasons that they're

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Speaker 3: there in the first place, and it's relatedly been dragged

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Speaker 3: out of them that two senior public servants also attended

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Speaker 3: along with the two staffers and the Chief Ministers. So

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Speaker 3: why she needs a positi of four people around her

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Speaker 3: to attend these meetings, I don't know, but that means

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Speaker 3: Territorians don't know either, which means they have not justified

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Speaker 3: the cost of this trip at a time when cost

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Speaker 3: of living is literally forcing people to make decision about

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Speaker 3: how they put food on the table.

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Speaker 1: I did ask the Deputy Chief Minister on Monday as well,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Madison, if they're going to commit from this point

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Speaker 1: on to publishing those costs before these trips actually happen.

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Speaker 1: I think it's imperative, particularly when you look at the

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Speaker 1: cost of the trip for Minister Lauren Moss to head

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Speaker 1: to a United Nations conference on water where the actual

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Speaker 1: flights cost more than fifty thousand dollars Like that is

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Speaker 1: an astronomical amount of money on flights.

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Speaker 2: It's quite unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Will the COLP commit to publishing the cost of any

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Speaker 1: trips that you undertake if you are indeed elected in

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Speaker 1: August next.

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Speaker 3: Year, without question, Katie, and this was a twenty sixteen

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Speaker 3: election commitment by Labor which they've failed. It's a broken

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Speaker 3: promise and for the Deputy Chief Minister to come out

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Speaker 3: and say, oh we're going to pick it back up again,

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Speaker 3: it's too little, too late. If the CLP is elected

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Speaker 3: next year, I can guarantee we will publish the reason

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Speaker 3: for the trip and the cost in advance, because people

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Speaker 3: have a right to know, and when we have a

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Speaker 3: ten billion dollar debt, a cost of living crisis, an

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Speaker 3: economy going backwards, Territorians deserve and need to know how

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Speaker 3: and why we are spending their Money's trips are not

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Speaker 3: necessarily a bad thing, but if you are too afraid

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Speaker 3: as a government to be able to justify and articulate

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Speaker 3: the spend to the community, it sends an alarm bell

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Speaker 3: to territorians. And so we will make sure those trips

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Speaker 3: are justified, accounted for, and that you're absolutely making decisions

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Speaker 3: to try and limit their cost. You know, you don't

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Speaker 3: have to fly on the most ideal flight that suits

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Speaker 3: your agenda that day.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to faw you don't have to fly business.

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Speaker 1: So you don't have to fly you know, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to fly business. Is that something that

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Speaker 1: the CLP would do well.

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Speaker 3: We actually had an election commitment in twenty twenty around

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Speaker 3: no public servants or government officials or ministers or anyone

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Speaker 3: flying business within Australia because you know, but this.

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Speaker 1: Is an overseas trip. I mean, would the COLP commit

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Speaker 1: to the same thing for overseas.

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Speaker 3: Or well, you know, I think overseas. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you're flying seventeen hours and you've got to hit the

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Speaker 3: ground running and walk straight into a meeting, then perhaps

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Speaker 3: you need to be able to have a sleep on

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Speaker 3: the plane. But ultimately it's about ensuring that the spend

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Speaker 3: is justified and reasonable. If a flight is fifty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 3: in no one's book is that justified or reasonable. So

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Speaker 3: you either change the time you fly, change how you fly,

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Speaker 3: or you don't go, or you know, you make other

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Speaker 3: decision around where you stay. But just spending money for

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Speaker 3: the sake of it is totally unacceptable. Territorians don't live

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Speaker 3: like that and neither should government.

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Speaker 1: Lea just Finally, the COLP issued a pressure leace towards

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Speaker 1: the end of last week, saying that today's national accounts

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Speaker 1: paint another grim picture for the Northern Territory's economy. This

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Speaker 1: quarter's results now putting the territory in a technical recession.

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Speaker 1: So do you believe The Northern Territory is in a

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Speaker 1: recession right now.

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Speaker 3: Yep, the Northern Territory is in technical recession. It is

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Speaker 3: a very scary time. But we don't even need the

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Speaker 3: national accounts to tell us that the territory economy is

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Speaker 3: going backwards.

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Speaker 2: We've got the through though. You know why you do

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Speaker 2: believe we're in a technical recession when.

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Speaker 3: The national accounts have said so, Katie. So when you

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Speaker 3: have consecutive quarters of negative growth, it puts you in

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Speaker 3: technical recession. We know that what is it now about

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Speaker 3: nineteen consecutive quarters comsec have rained us last in the

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Speaker 3: country for economic growth. We've had Deloitte come out and

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Speaker 3: say the same. We've had the ABS start to come

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Speaker 3: out and say the same. Now we've got the national

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Speaker 3: account we know that there is this promise after promise

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Speaker 3: of project that never happens from this government. More projects

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Speaker 3: are failing than they are transpiring. You think of the

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Speaker 3: luxury hotel, the prawn farm. We've got the ship lift

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Speaker 3: with a huge question mark over it, some cable with

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Speaker 3: a huge question mark over it. We've got the lowest

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Speaker 3: wages growth in the country and the highest CPI, which

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Speaker 3: means people are paying more with less.

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Speaker 2: How do we turn it around? How would you turn

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Speaker 2: it around?

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Speaker 3: So our policy is around our economic policies are around

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Speaker 3: unlocking our opportunities. We have to pull the regulatory leavers

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Speaker 3: available to us to get things moving immediately. So it's

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Speaker 3: around our policy of the Territory Coordinator to fast track

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Speaker 3: and facilitate investment and cut through red tape. Our policy

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Speaker 3: around splashing all the perival time frames across government by

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Speaker 3: fifty percent. They're going to give confidence to invest in

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Speaker 3: the territory and they're going to see money flowing immediately.

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Speaker 3: But on top of that, Katie, we have to rebuild

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Speaker 3: our reputation because crime is impacting our tourism industries and

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Speaker 3: small business and they're major players in our economy. Most businesses,

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Speaker 3: like ninety plus percent are small business and they are

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Speaker 3: totally under siege and it's costing them and costing territory,

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Speaker 3: and so we have to tackle crime, rebuild our reputation

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Speaker 3: to get our economy moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Leah, we have run out of time. I always appreciate

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Speaker 1: you coming on the show. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: having a chat with us and changing that day for

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Speaker 1: us this week.

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Speaker 3: No all good.

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Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone