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Speaker 1: Well, I knew that I was going to be catching

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Speaker 1: up with Senator for the Northern Territory Labor Party, Senator

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Speaker 1: Melanderie McCarthy, but then she appeared at my door.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, morning Katie, and good morning to

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Speaker 2: your listeners. Loving it to be in here.

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Speaker 1: Well, and such a busy time I would imagine for

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Speaker 1: you guys, because as we know, the Prime Minister announced

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Speaker 1: that polling day for the Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum.

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Speaker 3: It's happening on October.

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Speaker 2: Fourteenth, absolutely, so yesterday was forty five days to the

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Speaker 2: polling day, so I guess it's forty four days today,

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Speaker 2: and just encouraged Territorians to get yourselves involved. This is

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Speaker 2: democracy and action. We very rarely have referendums, Katie. We

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Speaker 2: have a lot of elections, and I'm sure your listeners

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Speaker 2: would think that there's way too many elections, but this

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Speaker 2: is a pretty special referendum and I just ask your

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Speaker 2: listeners to get yourselves informed.

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Speaker 1: Melanderie. There's so many people on both sides of the

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Speaker 1: discussion here. There's some people who are so passionately for

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Speaker 1: the voice, there's some who were so passionately against, and

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Speaker 1: there's so many who are just in the middle feeling

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Speaker 1: quite confused.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, Yes, and this is the time, Katie,

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Speaker 2: if I can just really encourage your listeners, this is

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Speaker 2: the time now to get yourselves informed. There's so many

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Speaker 2: areas you can You can go to the Australia and

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Speaker 2: Electoral Commission website. You can certainly go to the niAA

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Speaker 2: website to understand about referendums, to understand what and why

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Speaker 2: there is a referendum underway now, and then of course

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Speaker 2: you can go to the yes websites and no doubt

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Speaker 2: there is a no one. So I think that this

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Speaker 2: is the time for everyone to just get yourselves informed.

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Speaker 2: But can I just really reiterate, Katie, and I've done

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Speaker 2: this from the get go, it's really important that we're

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Speaker 2: respectful in our discussions. I cannot emphasize that enough. One

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Speaker 2: of the beautiful things about our country is we are

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Speaker 2: a democracy and we can agree to disagree, and we

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Speaker 2: must do so. I think always mindful of the fact

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Speaker 2: that other people won't think the way we do, but

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Speaker 2: we don't have to throw it down their faces, and

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Speaker 2: we don't have to have a go at them in

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Speaker 2: really awful ways. And I just encourage people to just

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Speaker 2: listen to one another or just say, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't agree with you, but that's.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: You know, I really do encourage that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think exactly the same.

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Speaker 1: Educate yourself, make your own decision, but you don't actually

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Speaker 1: need to fight with people over your decision or the

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Speaker 1: way what you get a vote. That is the beauty

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Speaker 1: of the country that we live in is that we

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Speaker 1: can all make informed votes ourselves and it's safe to

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Speaker 1: do so.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you know what, when you go in the

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Speaker 2: ballot box to vote, it's just you, you know, and you

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Speaker 2: know it's your private, personal decision whichever way you go.

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Speaker 2: So there are some people who will be very passionate

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Speaker 2: and outspoken and love to speak for it. I'm certainly

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Speaker 2: a YES supporter, and I will be encouraging people to

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Speaker 2: go that way. But I'm always listening to everyone, and

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Speaker 2: I just certainly encourage that in this next six weeks

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Speaker 2: in particular. But I do want to also just point out,

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Speaker 2: just from a practical point of view, Katie, that the

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Speaker 2: difference with the referendum is that we will start voting

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Speaker 2: in three weeks time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that early, So your listeners.

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Speaker 2: May want to really kind of put their skates on

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Speaker 2: to ask the questions they need to ask. They're very

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Speaker 2: welcome also to touch base with my office. You know,

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Speaker 2: I just think this is critical. One of the great

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Speaker 2: things the Australian Electoral Commission has done is to increase

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Speaker 2: the participation on the electoral role here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 2: but even right across the country. So we've seen an

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Speaker 2: uptick of up to nearly ninety seven percent of Australians

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Speaker 2: on the electoral role, which is huge, it is and

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Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory and a massive increase as well.

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Speaker 2: And I just encourage people to get out and vote.

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Speaker 2: That is a real important essence of democracy.

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Speaker 3: Melan Dearie.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of what I hear from peace

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Speaker 1: people who are saying that you know, they're going to

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Speaker 1: vote No is because they are worried that it's not

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Speaker 1: going to make a difference. They're worried that it's only

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Speaker 1: going to mean representation in Canberra. You know, I hear

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Speaker 1: very often as well from people, you know, why do

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Speaker 1: we need another sort of body when we've actually got

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Speaker 1: really strong Indigenous voices already in Canberra. In yourself in

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Speaker 1: Melanderie McCarthy in Just Enterprise and.

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Speaker 3: Of course Luke Gosling.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've got four people who are standing up

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Speaker 1: for the Northern territory already.

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Speaker 3: So there's some that are sort of saying, why do

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Speaker 3: we need it?

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Speaker 2: Sure, and they're very fair questions, Katie, and my response

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Speaker 2: to that is this. Firstly, First Nations people came together

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Speaker 2: at LERU in twenty seventeen and this was a request

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Speaker 2: by them and their families and organizations that they represented

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Speaker 2: the continual change of governments, saw the continual change of policies.

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Speaker 2: So what we're seeing on the ground now is more

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Speaker 2: about the structural change of the Westminster system. This is

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Speaker 2: what we're asking to improve, the structural change of how

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Speaker 2: that works in Canberra. And by that I mean, for example,

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Speaker 2: we deal with issues here where we you know, I

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Speaker 2: often hear people say, you know, look at the homelessness

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Speaker 2: and the people who are leaving their communities to come

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Speaker 2: into town. And I look at that, and I say, well,

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Speaker 2: they don't actually have the opportunity to see change in

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Speaker 2: their communities. And it's not just about the fact that I,

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Speaker 2: you know, may not be or may be doing what

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Speaker 2: I can or Senator Price may or may not be

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Speaker 2: doing what she can or Luke Gosling, you know, the

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Speaker 2: same thing. This is actually going to the heart of

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Speaker 2: how First Nations people have not had the chance and

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Speaker 2: they don't have to be a part of a party

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Speaker 2: to do that, to encourage and influence parliament decisions and

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Speaker 2: to give advice, and can I just stress it is advice.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The Parliament may or may not take that advice, but

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Speaker 2: it will have to be accountable as to why it

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Speaker 2: didn't and there has to be that transparency. So we

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Speaker 2: want to see the changes on the ground, you know,

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Speaker 2: whether it's labor and power, whether it's the coalition and

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Speaker 2: power or another party in power. The fact that the voice,

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Speaker 2: if successful, is enshrined in the constitution, then we will

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Speaker 2: see the improvement in the lives of First Nations people

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Speaker 2: across the country.

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Speaker 1: Melandary is some sort of saying, you know, are we

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Speaker 1: going to see the voice and that body then giving

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Speaker 1: advice on things like you know, defense and in areas

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Speaker 1: where some may sort of think to themselves, well, is

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Speaker 1: this going to slow you know, is it going to

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Speaker 1: slow the processes right down?

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Speaker 3: And do we need it? You know?

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of people sort of wondering

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Speaker 1: whether it's going to be involved in areas that it

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Speaker 1: potentially doesn't need to be.

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Speaker 2: If you look at the question that will be put

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Speaker 2: and that question is on the website, it does focus

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Speaker 2: on matters that impact First Nations people and what we

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Speaker 2: are looking at is around education, around housing, employment and health.

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Speaker 2: So they are four key targeted areas. So I think

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Speaker 2: to reassure your listeners, one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: want to see is that these issues around closing the

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Speaker 2: gap where we have high rates of suicide, high rates

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Speaker 2: of incarceration, babies are born underweight. I want to see

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Speaker 2: that we have to close that gap, and I don't

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Speaker 2: want it to be a responsibility of the next generation

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Speaker 2: of Australians or Territorians for that matter. I want the

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Speaker 2: next generation to have their own problems. They should not

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Speaker 2: be burdened with these issues. And I am personally very

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Speaker 2: strongly of the view that if we can see a

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Speaker 2: change from a very structural point of view in the

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Speaker 2: Westminster system of Parliament, then we will see a real

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Speaker 2: improvement in the lives for First Nations people in this

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Speaker 2: country and ultimately all of us.

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Speaker 1: Melanderie, what do you say to those people that you

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Speaker 1: know that look at the voice and they say, well,

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Speaker 1: this isn't going to truly represent Aboriginal people in communities.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be you know, snobs in other locations

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Speaker 1: on the committee, you know, and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be genuine territorians. And look, I always find this interesting

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Speaker 1: because I think, you know, if you look at us

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Speaker 1: here in the territory, we you know, we have some

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Speaker 1: of the we have some of the biggest issues in

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Speaker 1: terms of like you've touched on health, housing, domestic violence, crime, incarceration.

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Speaker 1: There are so many different issues that we grapple with

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Speaker 1: every day. But I guess what we really hate as

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Speaker 1: territorians as well is having someone who lives in Sydney

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Speaker 1: or Canberra or wherever telling us how to do things

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Speaker 1: and thinking that that's going to be better when we're

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Speaker 1: experiencing it every day.

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Speaker 2: You have if successful, Katie, and again I've heard those,

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Speaker 2: you know, those questions as well raised if successful in

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Speaker 2: this referendum, and it will be a tough referendum to win,

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Speaker 2: I have no doubt about that. We will see the

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Speaker 2: communities across the Northern Territory very fairly represented at the

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Speaker 2: federal level. And you know why, because we will ensure

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Speaker 2: that the Northern Territory has a fair seat at the table.

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Speaker 2: And I think we've shown that through pushing to keep

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Speaker 2: the seat of Lingiari for the Northern Territory, so that

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Speaker 2: we've had two federal seats. And I sort of digress

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Speaker 2: slightly from that in the sense that representation has always

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Speaker 2: been a critical focus of mine in terms of the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not spoken about it before, so.

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Speaker 2: I think that, you know, if I can certainly reassure

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Speaker 2: your listeners that if we are successful in this, there

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Speaker 2: is no doubt I will be pushing very hard for

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Speaker 2: the fair representation of the territory.

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Speaker 3: Melan Diarie.

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Speaker 1: Look, you know, I know that again there's so many

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Speaker 1: people who've feel so differently about this, and we'll make

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Speaker 1: sure that we catch up with people from both sides. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and as we definitely should, but you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that it is really important that we do obviously have

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Speaker 1: that representation from the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: How you know, when you look at.

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Speaker 1: Us all going to vote, and you look at this referendum,

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Speaker 1: how will you feel if it doesn't get up.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've approached this from the perspective of a bit

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Speaker 2: like a Grand final, Katie. I feel like we've been

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Speaker 2: on this journey, certainly since twenty seventeen when I was

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Speaker 2: in opposition as a Senator and have only been in

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Speaker 2: government for the last you know, just over the last

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Speaker 2: twelve months, where we've now determined to take this referendum

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Speaker 2: forward to the people. And I feel that with the

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Speaker 2: starters gone, we are now in the final quarter and

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Speaker 2: like any Grand Final, you stay focused on winning and

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Speaker 2: giving it your best shot. What I'd love to see

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Speaker 2: is that at the end of that Grand Final that

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Speaker 2: we can still shake hands on the field.

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Speaker 3: My bloody hope.

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Speaker 1: So because I just really don't want, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't want Australia to sort of be torn apart either way,

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Speaker 1: no matter what happens. And I guess that's what I've

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Speaker 1: probably found a bit upsetting over, you know, over the months,

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Speaker 1: is that you do you sort of hear some real,

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Speaker 1: real nasty stuff on both sides, and I just think

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Speaker 1: that we're better than that.

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Speaker 3: As Australians, we are better than that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely wore better than that. And can I just point

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Speaker 2: out again we're talking about an advisory committee an advisory

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Speaker 2: committee to the Parliament that's enshrined in the constitution, so

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Speaker 2: that whatever political party gets into government, that advisory committee

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Speaker 2: remains and continues on track to improve the lives of

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Speaker 2: First Nations people. It really is as simple as that.

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Speaker 2: I do urge all territories to get yourselves informed and

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Speaker 2: actually to enjoy this time. It's very rare that we

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Speaker 2: have referendums. I'm sure there's many people out there who

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Speaker 2: probably are going and be voting for the first time

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Speaker 2: in a referendum. You know, enjoy this time. It is

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Speaker 2: beautiful and look at the fact that we are a democracy.

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Speaker 2: Our country is great. We just believe we can make

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Speaker 2: it greater.

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Speaker 1: Melan Dearie McCarthy, Senator for the Northern Territory. I always

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Thanks so much for coming. Katie, thank

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Speaker 1: you