1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360
Speaker 1: Well, as we know, it has previously been revealed that

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: the two hundred and seventy million dollar Project Camus tanks

3
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,960
Speaker 1: built on Darwin Harbor were constructed without a building certificate

4
00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 1: not suitable to withstand a Category three cyclone. Then last month,

5
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,520
Speaker 1: we know the Environment Center NT wrote to the Environment

6
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 1: Department to raise concerns that the US military fuel tanks

7
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: are not structurally sound. Now, according to a report by

8
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 1: the ABC, who have covered this story pretty extensively, Minister

9
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 1: Bourgoyne granted an exemption from occupancy certification to approve the

10
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 1: tanks the following day, on the fourth of September, so

11
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 1: the following day after that letter. Now joining us on

12
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 1: the line is the Environment Center's Kirsty Howe. Good morning

13
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:42,680
Speaker 1: to you.

14
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 2: Kirsty, Good morning Katie. How are you?

15
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, really good, Thanks so much for your time. Now,

16
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,599
Speaker 1: can you just explain to us in plane terms, what

17
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: exactly is going wrong with the safety liner on these

18
00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,320
Speaker 1: tanks and how groundwater is leaking through. Yeah.

19
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: Well, look what we received evidence of, and this was

20
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 2: from a pretty brave whistleblower, was that there were tests

21
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: done of the liner that exists at the bottom of

22
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 2: the tanks, and you need that liner obviously to keep

23
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 2: what's in the tanks, which is pretty toxic it's military

24
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 2: grade fuel, from seeping into groundwater. And it's obviously right

25
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 2: there on the banks of the harbor, like the mangroves

26
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 2: are just there. So to keep the harbor safe and

27
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: to keep the environment safe, you've got to have impermeable

28
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 2: liners in place. And we were really troubled to receive

29
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,559
Speaker 2: these tests which indicated that actually they were not structurally sound.

30
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 2: They would leak. And there has been reporting in the

31
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 2: past of groundwater making its way into the tanks which

32
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 2: suggested a leak. But the new evidence suggested that this

33
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: wasn't a thing that had been fixed, it was an

34
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: ongoing problem. So we wrote to the NTEPA and to

35
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 2: Minister Bourgoin about it.

36
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: And what was the response from both.

37
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 2: Look, we were really surprised because literally the day after

38
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,520
Speaker 2: we sent this evidence, which we thought was very serious,

39
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:18,840
Speaker 2: Minister Burgoyne did provide a form of exemption under building

40
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 2: regulations for the tanks and basically said, you know, I've

41
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 2: approved these and said quite publicly that they were structurally sound,

42
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: that they had the capacity to hold that fuel. So

43
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, we took that at faith value, and were

44
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,800
Speaker 2: very surprised to receive a letter from the regulator, the

45
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 2: Northern Churchy Regulator, indicating that that wasn't the case, that

46
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 2: confirmed that the tanks had the capacity to leak, that

47
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 2: the problem hadn't been fixed, there were ongoing repairs happening,

48
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 2: and our view was, well, both things can't be the same.

49
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 2: You cannot have as Minister Burgoyne said, the leak been fixed,

50
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: and at the same time the regulators saying it had

51
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 2: been but both things can't be true.

52
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 1: So as it currently stands, how many of those fuel

53
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 1: tanks do you understand to be leaking and what kind

54
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: of volume of leakage are we talking here?

55
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,360
Speaker 2: Well, when we received the correspondence, one of the things

56
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 2: we said was, look, can you please give us assurance

57
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 2: that the tanks won't be filled until this problem is

58
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 2: solved to the satisfaction of the public. And we didn't

59
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: get that. We didn't get that in the response to us,

60
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,519
Speaker 2: and we were really surprised to learn actually yesterday in

61
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: the reporting by ABC, that four of the tanks have

62
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 2: been filled and that repairs may be ongoing for the rest.

63
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 2: So it's really difficult to say what the risk is

64
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 2: to the harbor, to the environment. You know, we don't

65
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 2: have modeling that indicates what could happen, but it does

66
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 2: seem to be a really high order of risk and

67
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 2: we really think the Minister has to explain himself here.

68
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 1: So from the evidence or from the info that you

69
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: guys have got based on you know, the tanks or

70
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 1: what is leaking? Does that you know? Are you fearful

71
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: that you know that the repair work that's maybe getting

72
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: underway is not like that it actually needs to happen

73
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: on all of those tanks.

74
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's really difficult for us

75
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 2: to tell. We don't have all the information. We only

76
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 2: have some of the information that's then provided. But we've

77
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,600
Speaker 2: had confirmed there's a problem that some of the tanks

78
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 2: are leaking. There has not been real transparency about this,

79
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 2: so you know, we'd like to see that. We'd like

80
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 2: to see full disclosure of everything that the Minister is

81
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 2: placing his decision making on. And we think that really

82
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 2: there does need to be an investigation into this because

83
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 2: we've got just this rolling series of scandals that were

84
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 2: builded built illegally. They may not withstand cyclones higher than

85
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 2: a category three and now we've got evidence that they're

86
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,599
Speaker 2: continuing to leak and could leak into the future. So

87
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,720
Speaker 2: kind of I think enough's enough. The community needs to

88
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,039
Speaker 2: know that harbor's too precious. We're talking about people's safety

89
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 2: as well. Here. You know, something's got to give here.

90
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,239
Speaker 2: There needs to be a concession by the government.

91
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 1: So what do you think needs to happen now? I mean,

92
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,720
Speaker 1: do these tanks need to be shut down until the

93
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: problem is properly fixed? What needs to happen from your perspective.

94
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 2: Look, I don't think the tanks should be filled. I

95
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 2: think that needs to be stopped and the problem needs

96
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 2: to be fixed. Now, I'm not an expert in how

97
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: you fix tanks. That's sort of not my gig. It

98
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,159
Speaker 2: would take a lot of expertise, But you know, they

99
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,279
Speaker 2: do need to be fixed. They shouldn't be leaking. If

100
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 2: it costs a lot of money to do that, then

101
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 2: that money should be spent. These are It's a very

102
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,280
Speaker 2: expensive project, as you mentioned, two hundred and seventy million dollars.

103
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 2: It is ultimately owned and operated and will be used

104
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 2: by the US government Department of Defense. Surely they can

105
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 2: find it in themselves to fix this problem. And really

106
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 2: we would expect our politicians to hold them to the

107
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,839
Speaker 2: highest possible standard in the middle of Dalen Harbor, which

108
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:07,600
Speaker 2: is so precious.

109
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:13,159
Speaker 1: Well, Environment Center NT executive director Kirsty Howie, really appreciate

110
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: your time this morning. Thank you very much for having

111
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: a chat with us.

112
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,239
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Katie, thank you