1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: wants answers. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 3: Now, the school year is almost over, report cards on 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 3: their way into hands, mail boxes and inboxes, email boxes 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 3: all over the place, and this is that time of 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 3: the year where some families start to have a conversation 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 3: around how's our child doing and are they doing okay? 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: Or more to the point, we know they're not doing okay. 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: There's some pretty serious gaps in their knowledge. Should they 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: repeat a year? Sometimes it's not their fault. Sometimes there's 12 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: inconsistency with the school they start in your school, there's 13 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: challenges teachers and so on, maybe serious illness. But in 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: other cases we just look at how child's fairing and think, 15 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: oh my goodness, they did not master the material this year. 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: Do you think they should repeat? What should we do 17 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: about it? Kylie? That's our topic today on the Happy 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Families Podcast. 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: I'm really surprised we're having this conversation. As far as 20 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: I was aware, repeating is just number one. It's not 21 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: something that the Education Department would encourage in any way, 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: shape or form, And I just I feel like it's 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: not a conversation these days. 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: You might be surprised. We don't have a whole lot 25 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: of really great data in Australia. There's not a lot 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: of well kept publicized research on this. But the last 27 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: start of that I've got is ten years old, and 28 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: that's from twenty fourteen. In that research, about seven and 29 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: a half percent of fifteen year olds had repeated one 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: year over the course of their schooling, So whether they 31 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: repeat a grade one or grade three or grade eight, whatever, 32 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: it was just under ten percent. Seven and a half 33 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: percent of fifteen year olds had repeated one year, which 34 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: was down slightly from eight percent in two thousand and nine. 35 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: So seven and a half eight percent of kids are 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: repeating at some point. And one of our daughters has 37 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: we got hurt, although it wasn't really repeating a year 38 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: of school. We just got her to do that preschool 39 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: year a second time because we wanted her to be 40 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: a bit older. So I guess that doesn't doesn't quite 41 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: count well. 42 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: I kind of think the conversation would be more useful 43 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: in do we delay starting our kids schooling journey as 44 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: opposed to putting them in at the appointed time and 45 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: then recognizing that there's too many gaps in their learning 46 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: and doing it again. 47 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's called red shirting, and research certainly indicates 48 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: that overwhelmingly that's what most parents are doing now. They're 49 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: just saying, want my child to grow up a bit more. 50 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: I want them to be a bit older, let's start 51 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: school an extra year down the track, and that's what 52 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: the push is. Interestingly, around the world there's a really 53 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: big shift or there are lots of differences in various countries. 54 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: So for example, in France and Spain and Portugal, it's 55 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: really quite common for kids to be retained free. It's 56 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: called grade retention or repeating year, that is, doing the 57 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: academic year over again. Places like Australia, the UK, the US, 58 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: New Zealand doesn't happen very often at all, under ten percent, 59 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: seven eight percent, that sort of thing. And places like Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, 60 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: those Nordic countries, the Northern European countries pretty much never happens. 61 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: It's not part of the conversation. It's simply not what 62 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: they do. They focus more on, Okay, this child struggling, 63 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: individualized teaching, student learning plans, student differentiation, that kind of thing. 64 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: So I find it really fascinating just the different way 65 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: that this plays out around the world. But Australia, I mean, 66 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: nearly ten percent of kids will repeat a grade at 67 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: some point in that first fifteen years of life. 68 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: So why do people think repeating is a good idea? 69 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: There are three main reasons that come up from all 70 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: the research that I've looked at. The first one is 71 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: just this idea that maturation, That is, the building blocks 72 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: weren't quite there, but as you mature, you're more cognitively mature, 73 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: you're better able to regulate your emotions and your behaviors, 74 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: You've more socially mature, so you're probably and you're going 75 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: to have the cognitive architecture to learn the stuff you 76 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: need to learn this year because you didn't do it 77 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: last year. So the whole putting the building blocks in place, 78 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: that's the idea. Unfortunately, unfortunately the research doesn't necessarily support that, 79 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: and that is a lot of kids will feel incompetent 80 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 1: because we've asked them to repeat a year, and they'll 81 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: also be quite bored because there might be a few 82 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: areas where they are failing, where they're really struggling, whe 83 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: they're not up to standard, but they've kind of got 84 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: their head around most of it anyway. So they show 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: up at the first part of the new year and 86 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: the first three, four, five, maybe six months are just 87 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: dead set boring for them because they were mostly okay. 88 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: And this is making sense because they're a year older 89 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: and they actually feel worse, not better. It doesn't help them. 90 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: I think this is where individualized teaching is so important, 91 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: and making sure that your children's school has the capacity 92 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: to cope with the differences in learning. 93 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 1: And so the differences in learning is the second reason 94 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: that people promote it that there's a term that you 95 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: might hear of now and again called heterogeneity. In other words, 96 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: if there's enormous heterogeneity in the group, you've got a 97 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: lot of variation. You've got the really you're smart kids 98 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: that are learning everything and the kids that are lagging 99 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: and really struggling. And the argument is by getting kids 100 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: to repeat, you create more homogeneity in the group. That is, 101 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: everyone's a lot more aligned similar levels, and the more 102 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: homogenize the group, the easy they are to teach. So 103 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: by asking a child to repeat, by retaining the grade, 104 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: what you're effectively doing is you're letting all the kids 105 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: who are at the same level move up. But you're 106 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: asking the kids who aren't to stay back. That's the argument. 107 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: And then of course there's just the competency argument, like 108 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 1: if you're competent, you're going to feel better about yourself, 109 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: your self esteems going to be higher, it's going to 110 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: be a refresher rather than new material, You're going to 111 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: be more experienced, you do well. Some arguments for grade 112 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: retention as well is that the threat, the threat of 113 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: retention can actually be the motivated to get kids to 114 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: continue and work hard, which I think is a pretty 115 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: unhelpful approach, but they're the main reasons that people would 116 00:05:52,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: argue that grade retention is a good idea. 117 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: So I know from our personal experienced. We have two 118 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: children who were born in April. We lived in New 119 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: South Wales, and so they were able to start school 120 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: as four year olds turning five in the April, and 121 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: in both cases completely competent children, very articulate, very capable 122 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: of learning the material. But what we noticed with our 123 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: older daughter was that it didn't really start to matter 124 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: until about grade three. Then we started to see some 125 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: gaps in her social capacity and emotional regulation because she 126 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: was so much younger than her peers and so as 127 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: a result. That meant that with our youngest, we decided 128 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: we would do the opposite to that, and we gave 129 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: her an extra year in preschool. I was really concerned 130 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: about that at the time. It was a really hard decision. 131 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: I felt like I was doing bad by her. But 132 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: my one concern was is she going to be bored? 133 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 2: Is she going to come next year doing the same things, 134 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: And just we've wasted a whole year of learning and 135 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: growth for her. And I was so grateful for a 136 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: school structure that just said, no, of course, not. Whatever 137 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: she's ready for, we're going to give her. And so 138 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: the following year, while all of her friends were still 139 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: learning their letters, she was actually writing and she wrote 140 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: her own story that year, completely written from start to finish, 141 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: illustrated and put together. And it was such a beautiful 142 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: experience watching her in the same environment, but stretched and extended. 143 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so advantage there really for red shirting the idea 144 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: of holding the kids in their childhood for an extra 145 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: year before they head off to school, giving them that 146 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to mature. Unfortunately, it seems that great retention doesn't 147 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: provide the same advantages as what you've just described. By 148 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: waiting till the kids rolled before they start school. So 149 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: looking at the research, there's a research paper that came 150 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty I think it was maybe it 151 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: was twenty twenty one, and it's called Effectiveness of aid 152 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: retention A systematic reviewer meta analysis eighty four methodologically sound 153 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: studies from two thousand to twenty nineteen from around the world, 154 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: looking really carefully at this one major thing, and here's 155 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: what they found in the data. They found the disadvantages. 156 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: Repeaters are not universally incompetent, and so learning outcomes end 157 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: up being lower rather than higher because they get bored, 158 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: they get frustrated, and they start to feel like that, well, 159 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: they're internalizing this idea that I'm a dummy, that's why 160 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: I had to stay back. There are social consequences. The 161 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: major social consequences consist of two things. Number One, the 162 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: kids who left you behind are no longer part of 163 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: your social group, So all those friendships that you've had 164 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: several years developing and strengthening and creating those foundations are 165 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: no longer there. And number two, it seems that the 166 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: younger kids actually pick on the kids that have been retained, 167 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: the kids that are repeating are at much greater risk 168 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: of being picked on by their new peers who are saying, oh, 169 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: look at you, you're not smart like us. You've had 170 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: to stay back with us. Where the babies, but you're 171 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: the actual baby, which is just kids again, the casual 172 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: brutality that you see in kids, and that of course 173 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: is associated with a decrease in self esteem. And the 174 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: research has found that there's a decreased pleasure in learning. 175 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: Learning is no longer seen as something that you innately 176 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: do or something that you can derive pleasure from. It's 177 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: something that you have to do to avoid the awfulness 178 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: of looking like a dummy. And that's obviously not going 179 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: to be great. And the last couple of things they highlighted. 180 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: Number one, it causes stress and anxiety for the kids 181 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: who are being retained for that year. And it's also 182 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: terrible from a cost point of view, like the government 183 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: or the family or whoever's footing the bill, it ends 184 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: up costing a lot, so they're on the disadvantages to 185 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: retaining kids. It seems like if you're thinking about repeating, 186 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: the evidence is firmly against it. 187 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. When I moved over from New Zealand, 188 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: I had finished five years of schooling. So when we 189 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: moved over at the end of my fifth year of school, 190 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: in my mind, I should be going into year six. 191 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: But I was actually again like our April babies, I 192 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: was at the younger end of the scale. But I 193 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: chucked such a mental tantrum with my parents and the 194 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: principal that they decided that they would put me into 195 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: year six. Having gone through that process, now, I would 196 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: one hundred percent have said they did wrong by me, 197 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 2: as the two adults in the room who know better, 198 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: they did wrong by me. I needed to be in 199 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: year five because there was so many gaps in my learning. 200 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: What he's saying, you could have been a lawyer, or 201 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: an engineer or a doctor instead. 202 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: No, not at all, just my level of competence. I 203 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: spent the rest of my high school years feeling completely 204 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: incompetent because I never felt like I caught up. I 205 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: was never at the same stage as my peers. 206 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: It's so important get the kids into school at the 207 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: right time and then just let the system do what 208 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: it's supposed to do from an education point of view. 209 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: Having said that, there will always be children who struggle. 210 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about a couple of things 211 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: that we can do to help our children if they 212 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: are struggling, because this really matters. There were some studies 213 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: that showed that in countries where there was what's known 214 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: as ability grouping or streaming to deal with heterogeneity, to 215 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: deal with different abilities, that retention could have some advantages, 216 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: but the size of the effect overall was essentially zero, 217 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: and it seems that the net effect of retention or 218 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: repeating a grade is it's better to avoid it. It's 219 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: just really hard to make the argument that it is 220 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: a good thing. So the other options differentiation, and that's 221 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: really a teacher thing where teachers identify who's doing well 222 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: and who's not. They provide additional support to the kids 223 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: who are not doing well, which can sometimes be hard 224 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: because the kids who are not doing well, the kids 225 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: that you identify as struggling, can quite often be emotionally 226 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: and behave really challenging as well, usually because they're struggling. 227 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: So it's hard to see past that and say I'm 228 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: here to support you in spite of the fact that 229 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: you hate being here and you feeling competent and you're 230 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: making life really hard for everybody. It seems to be 231 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: a really really big impact on whether the kids will 232 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: do well or not, so that individualized teaching. But it 233 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: seems from everything that I've read that the best thing 234 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: that you can do for your kids if they're struggling 235 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: academically is to get extra tutor in support, to get 236 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: somebody external from the school to come in and do 237 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: a bit of help with the maths or the English 238 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: or the French or whatever it is. And I know 239 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: that that's sort of a privileged thing. You've got to 240 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: have the money, you've got to be able to afford it. 241 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: But it seems that that is it. The advantages of 242 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: being able to stick with your friends and maintaining as 243 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: much stability in that schooling situation, the advantages are far 244 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: greater than any advantages that might come from allowing encouraging 245 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: the children to repeat a year. It just seems that 246 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: those advantages don't exist. 247 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: So, based on everything we've talked about, doctor justin where 248 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: are we sitting. 249 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: Don't repeat if you can avoid it now. Now there 250 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: will be a small percentage of kids who it really 251 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: is the best option. But over on average, when we 252 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: look at the results globally, the researchers in this particular 253 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: paper said and I quote great retention provides a zero 254 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: net effect. That is, it is not associated with the 255 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: positive outcomes that we hope that it will be, and 256 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: there are many many disadvantages. We're not seeing academic advantages, 257 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: we're not seeing the attendant growth in self esteem or 258 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: cognitive development or social development, like across the board, no 259 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: matter what variable you look at, we're just not seeing 260 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: the positive outcomes. With a handful of small exceptions that 261 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: are too small and too context dependent to talk about here. 262 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: In an Australian context, it seems like finding alternatives and 263 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: investing in additional extracurricular educational support tends to be the 264 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: better outcome. Hold them back, yeah, yeah, give them an 265 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: extra year of childhood. 266 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 2: And let them mature, let them start too early. 267 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: That's that's a really big one. In fact, I'm so 268 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: glad you said that. As we move towards the end 269 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: of the year and people get ready for next year, 270 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: if you can give them an extra year of being 271 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: a kid, it will be so worth it. The Happy 272 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. 273 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: To get more information about making your family happier, visit 274 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au. And if you'd like 275 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: more information about the study that I was specifically citing, 276 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: check the show notes. We'll have a link to that 277 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: study right there.