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Speaker 1: Look, I do want to make it very clear this

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Speaker 1: morning when it comes to this story, which is obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, engulfing the Deputy Chief Minister, we did. I

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Speaker 1: have put in a request. I put in that request

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Speaker 1: at six o'clock this morning to have him on the show.

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Speaker 1: I then asked, if he's unavailable, can we get a statement.

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Speaker 1: We've been provided that statement. But to make it very clear,

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Speaker 1: there's a number of questions that remain unanswered. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd ask questions like the value of those shares, why

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Speaker 1: they were not divested earlier, if the purchase was appropriate

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Speaker 1: given his position, were the shares disclosed to cabinet? And

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Speaker 1: should the Deputy Chief Minister stand down given the steps

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Speaker 1: taken by previous Chief Minister Natasha Files. Now, these are

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Speaker 1: all questions that are being asked. I have gone onto

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Speaker 1: the website to find where exactly those shares were disclosed.

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Speaker 1: So they were disclosed on the nineteenth of the fifth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Well, he's got property in Darwin City,

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Speaker 1: but also met cash. Met cash is limited. The value

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Speaker 1: of those shares though, or the number of those shares

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Speaker 1: have not been declared, and that is what we had

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Speaker 1: asked for. We know that he's now divested those shares,

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Speaker 1: but questions really being asked about whether it was appropriate

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Speaker 1: to hold those shares when he was the Attorney General

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Speaker 1: and also held other portfolios, and some really serious decisions

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Speaker 1: were being made around restrictions with alcohol in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line to talk more about

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Speaker 1: this is Robin Lamley, the Independent member Farara Luhn. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Robin, what do you make of this situation?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's staggering, it's almost it's almost beyond belief that

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Speaker 2: Chancey Pake would think he could get away with something

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Speaker 2: like this. Those shares were bort while he was a

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Speaker 2: minister Ministers. According to the Ministerial Code of Conduct, can

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Speaker 2: I hold shares? They have to sell their shares. They

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Speaker 2: have to divest their shares, not buy shares. So he's

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Speaker 2: breached the Code of Conduct in that respect. But more

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Speaker 2: than anything, he's done it in a very slimy, sneaky

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Speaker 2: way and he thinks he's gotten away with it. But

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Speaker 2: thanks to Chris Walsh again from the NT Independent, he's

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Speaker 2: plucked this out of the record books and once again

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Speaker 2: we have a situation we were looking at in late

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Speaker 2: December where a senior Labor minister, this time the Deputy

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister and our first legal officer, that the Attorney

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Speaker 2: General is in breach of the rules of the Lands,

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Speaker 2: the Code of Conducts and Ministers, and also the guidelines

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Speaker 2: for the Legislative Assembly. This is a conflict of interest, Katie.

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Speaker 2: By definition, he did disclose that he had the shares

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Speaker 2: in a very sly sneaky way. He's never made mention

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Speaker 2: in public, but he did satisfy requirements of putting it

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Speaker 2: in his interest register. But he shouldn't have had the

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Speaker 2: shares in the first place. And given the fact, given

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Speaker 2: the fact that our biggest problem, particularly in Central Australia

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Speaker 2: is alcohol, it just beggars belief that an Aboriginal minister

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Speaker 2: will choose to have shares in a company that supplies

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Speaker 2: alcohol to liquor outlets in Alice Greens. It's a very

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Speaker 2: sad day for the Labor Party a game, Robin. Do

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Speaker 2: you they are in disarray and the only option would

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Speaker 2: be from where I see is to get rid of him.

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Speaker 1: Robin, do you feel that this would have genuinely clouded

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Speaker 1: his judgment? We're making any decisions around those alcohol restrictions,

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Speaker 1: or whether they extended those restrictions. I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: sort of a bridge too far here or do you

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Speaker 1: think that it could have?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what I think, Abie, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: what anyone thinks. The rules are such conflicts of interest

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Speaker 2: do cloud people judgments, and that's why we have very

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Speaker 2: strict worlds around these things. So are you asking me

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Speaker 2: would he have otherwise started to list those alcohol bands

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Speaker 2: across hundreds and hundreds of Aboriginal living areas and powering

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Speaker 2: plants across the Northern Territory in July twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: if he didn't own the shares. I can't answer that,

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Speaker 2: but I think you can assume, or make a reasonable

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Speaker 2: assumption that it could have, and that's enough to constitute

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Speaker 2: a breach of his interests and it's enough to query

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Speaker 2: alleged corruption. Robin.

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Speaker 1: I mean you said before that you don't think that

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Speaker 1: position is sustainable. Does he need to stand down here?

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Speaker 1: I mean we were in a similar situation, yes, different

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Speaker 1: in some ways with the then Chiefiness and Natasha files

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Speaker 1: before Christmas. But does he need to resign?

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Speaker 2: Of course he does. There's not a different set of

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Speaker 2: rules for Chancey Cake yes, he's climbed the ladder very quickly.

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Speaker 2: He's made some terrible decisions, Katie. I will never forgive

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Speaker 2: him for allowing those alcohol, those grog bands to be

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Speaker 2: lifted back in July twenty twenty two that caused untold

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Speaker 2: damage and chaos in Central Australia. We saw rapes the

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Speaker 2: family and domestic violence double. There's still not back to

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Speaker 2: what they were prior to that terrible decision. It's the

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Speaker 2: single most destructive policy I have ever seen any Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory government make, and it was driven by the likes

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Speaker 2: of Chancey Pake and Natasha Phile. Natasha has fallen on

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Speaker 2: her thought and so she should have. And now it's

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Speaker 2: time for Chancey Cake to go. He is a very

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Speaker 2: I see him as a very extreme, dangerous labor politician

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Speaker 2: and I'm so thankful for Chris Walsh to have found

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Speaker 2: what he's found. He's enlightened us all as to what's

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Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes with this guy. He needs

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Speaker 2: to go. He failed himself and he's particularly failed the

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal people of Central Australia.

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Speaker 1: Robin Chancey Paike has issued as a statement this morning

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Speaker 1: and said I have always complied with the Ministerial Code

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Speaker 1: of Conduct and the Legislative Assembly Disclosure of Interests Act

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight. The Chief Minister has this

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Speaker 1: morning announcer review of ministerial conflict of interest controls and

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Speaker 1: will release the terms of reference today. Since becoming the

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Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Minister, I've divested all shares.

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Speaker 2: Well, smoke and mirrors, Katie. He may have reported his

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Speaker 2: interest in the register within the Legislative Assembly, but he

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Speaker 2: should have owned the shares in the first place. As

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Speaker 2: I said when we first started the interview, when you

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Speaker 2: become a minister, you sell your chairs. You don't buy

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Speaker 2: more shares. He bought those shares apparently two months before

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Speaker 2: he then decided to lift those alcohol bands across all

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Speaker 2: those hundreds and hundreds of Aboriginal communities that have since

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Speaker 2: been affected by violence.

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Speaker 1: And I've got the paperwork. I've got the paperwork here

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Speaker 1: in front of me, and the nineteenth of the fifth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two is when it is signed off. That's

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Speaker 1: for met Cash Limited. And it doesn't say how many shares,

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Speaker 1: doesn't say to what value. I know that many would argue,

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Speaker 1: well that's sort of irrelevant to.

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Speaker 2: You know, irrelevant. It proved to be irrelevant when Natasha

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Speaker 2: Fhal faced the same scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: Robin, look, I find it astonishing that at this point

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Speaker 1: in time the Attorney General doesn't think that there's more

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Speaker 1: questions to be answered. He's certainly refused our request to

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Speaker 1: have him on the show this morning, but we will

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Speaker 1: keep trying.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate this is the first day of Parliament

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Speaker 2: for the year. It's the first time Eva Lawler has

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Speaker 2: stood in this chamber as the Chief Minister, and she

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Speaker 2: now has to look to her right at her deputy

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister, who has failed her and her team. She

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Speaker 2: has no choice if she's going to survive the election,

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Speaker 2: if she's got any chance of winning the next election

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Speaker 2: in August, god forbid, and she has to get rid

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Speaker 2: of him.

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley, I always appreciate your time, particularly this morning.

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Speaker 1: I know you've had to step out of Parliament to

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Speaker 1: speak with us. Thank you so much. We'll talk to

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Speaker 1: you again very.

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Speaker 2: Soon, my pleasure, Katie. Thank you,