WEBVTT - Why JK Rowling says she should be arrested

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 3>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,

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<v Speaker 3>the fifth of April.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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<v Speaker 3>In today's deep dive, we're going to speak about the

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<v Speaker 3>hate crime laws that have author JK. Rowling telling her

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<v Speaker 3>fourteen million followers that she should be arrested. The laws

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<v Speaker 3>aimed to protect people against hate crimes, but they've also

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<v Speaker 3>attracted some criticism, both in Scotland and.

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<v Speaker 2>Across the world.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll tell you everything you need to know in today's

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<v Speaker 3>deep dive, But first Sam, it's making headlines.

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<v Speaker 4>The National Anti Corruption Commission says it's conducting fifteen corruption investigations.

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<v Speaker 4>The Commission hasn't provided much detail around the focus of

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<v Speaker 4>the probes, but it did confirm five a part of

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<v Speaker 4>joint investigations with other agencies. The regulatory body has received

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<v Speaker 4>over twenty seven hundred referrals of suspected corruptions since it

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<v Speaker 4>launched in July last year. It confirmed it's currently assessing

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<v Speaker 4>around four hundred and fifty of those claims to determine

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<v Speaker 4>if they weren't further corruption investigation.

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<v Speaker 3>Spending on transport increased by twelve point three percent in

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<v Speaker 3>the twelve months to February. According to the latest data

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<v Speaker 3>from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Transport was the biggest

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<v Speaker 3>contributor to the overall increase in household spending, which overall

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<v Speaker 3>grew by three point six percent in the past year.

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<v Speaker 3>Spending on essentials increased by six point nine percent, while

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<v Speaker 3>non essential spending decreased by zero point eight percent, which

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<v Speaker 3>the ABS said highlights the shift in consumer behavior due

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<v Speaker 3>to cost of living pressures.

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<v Speaker 4>The Queensland Government has announced its expanding the protected areas

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<v Speaker 4>of the Great Barrier Reef. Around one hundred and forty

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<v Speaker 4>additional islands have been added to the marine park, with

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<v Speaker 4>a combined total land size of one three hundred and

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<v Speaker 4>ninety hectares. It will ensure endangered and at risk ecosystems

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<v Speaker 4>and habitats in the sea and on land will be

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<v Speaker 4>included in conservation efforts. Queensland's Environment Minister Lianne Lenard said

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<v Speaker 4>the project will quote ensure our wildlife will thrive.

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<v Speaker 3>And the good news Australian researchers have been chosen by

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<v Speaker 3>NASA to study how plants could grow on the Moon.

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<v Speaker 3>A group of Researchers from Ozzie Universities, including the University

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<v Speaker 3>of Adelaide and Latrobe, will send plants to space with

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<v Speaker 3>NASA's Artamus three mission and monitor how they fare on

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<v Speaker 3>the lunar surface. Researchers say they're hoping to gather data

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<v Speaker 3>about how plants respond in an off earth environment to

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<v Speaker 3>inform the design of future space crops.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, I'm just popping in here. My name is

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<v Speaker 1>Sira and I'm the sales manager at TDA. I help

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<v Speaker 1>organize the sponsorships on the podcast every day and that

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<v Speaker 1>helps fund the journalism you hear. If you want to

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<v Speaker 1>support us, the best way to do that is by

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<v Speaker 1>clicking follow on Apple or Spotify. It really helps new

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<v Speaker 1>audiences find us. Thank you for your support and now

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<v Speaker 1>back to the deep dive.

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<v Speaker 3>Last week, new laws came into effect in Scotland and

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<v Speaker 3>they're aiming to target hate speech. Specifically, under the new laws,

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<v Speaker 3>it's illegal to incite hate against people based on age, disability, ethnicity, religion,

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<v Speaker 3>sexual orientation, transgender identity or for being intersex. Now, it's

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<v Speaker 3>fair to say that the new laws have attracted quite

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<v Speaker 3>a fair bit of criticism.

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<v Speaker 2>So SA in today I wanted.

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<v Speaker 3>To go through the laws, what they are, what they're

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<v Speaker 3>aiming to achieve, the passage of the legislation, it's been

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<v Speaker 3>a hot minute and what people are saying about it.

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<v Speaker 4>And are these laws new to Scotland's in the UK,

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<v Speaker 4>Like is this the first time they've had hate laws

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<v Speaker 4>or is there a bit of a history there.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean that's a two pronged question. So to answer it, firstly, no,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not a new law. So this legislation was actually

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<v Speaker 3>passed back in twenty twenty one. It's taken until now

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<v Speaker 3>for it to come into effect though, so that's why

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about it today. These laws also an't the

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<v Speaker 3>first time that hate crimes have been legislated in Scotland,

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<v Speaker 3>so that's happened before. Inciting racial hatred has been outlawed

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<v Speaker 3>across the UK, including Scotland since nineteen eighty six. However,

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<v Speaker 3>there was a twenty eighteen review of hate crime legislation

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<v Speaker 3>and that found that Scotland's laws were outdated, that they

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<v Speaker 3>needed reviewing and needed updating. That review called for hate

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<v Speaker 3>crime regulations to be strengthened and to be expanded.

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<v Speaker 4>So give me a sense of how many hate crimes

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<v Speaker 4>there were in Scotland.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, look, I think that this is like an imperfect

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<v Speaker 3>science to talk about. We know with any kind of

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<v Speaker 3>reporting on crime that there's a lot that goes unreported.

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<v Speaker 3>We can only go off what is publicly available. In Scotland,

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<v Speaker 3>we know that in twenty twenty two to twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 3>three there were five thousand, seven hundred and thirty eight

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<v Speaker 3>charges to hate crimes. Again, it's also kind of hard

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<v Speaker 3>to compare this to other jurisdictions because there are differences

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<v Speaker 3>in the way that people report things. Obviously difference in

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<v Speaker 3>what hate crimes defined us exactly. But I guess as

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<v Speaker 3>a point of comparison, in the Republic of Ireland, which

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<v Speaker 3>has a similar sized population, in twenty twenty two, there

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<v Speaker 3>were five hundred and eighty two hate crimes reported. So

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<v Speaker 3>there's a fairly big difference between Scotland and Ireland. But

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<v Speaker 3>if we go back to Scotland for a second, So,

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<v Speaker 3>as I said, the Parliament passed this legislation in twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty one, and what it did was specifically outlaw in

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<v Speaker 3>citing hate against people based on the following categories and

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<v Speaker 3>I named them before. But I just want to go

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<v Speaker 3>through it slowly again, age, disability, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,

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<v Speaker 3>transgender identity, or being inter sex. So it explicitly added

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<v Speaker 3>those it's called protected classes of people to the existing

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<v Speaker 3>racial hatred laws. So that's why we aren't talking about

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<v Speaker 3>race there. It's because that already existent and these classes

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<v Speaker 3>have now been added as well. What you might have

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<v Speaker 3>noticed is that the laws don't explicitly include women. So

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<v Speaker 3>women aren't included as a protected class. That's because a

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<v Speaker 3>government task force recommended separate legislation ensuring protections against misogynistic

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<v Speaker 3>harassment and abuse. We haven't actually seen that legislation yet,

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<v Speaker 3>but the government says that it's coming, so they're going

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<v Speaker 3>to deal with that separately to this hate crime legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>So now back to the law itself.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that this is important to understand because I

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<v Speaker 3>think sometimes it can be fairly subjective what counts as

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<v Speaker 3>a hate crime. What one person considers a hate crime

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<v Speaker 3>can arguably not be seen the same by another. So

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<v Speaker 3>the threshold that the legislation sets out is that a

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<v Speaker 3>person commits an offense if they communicate material or behave

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<v Speaker 3>in a manner that quote a reasonable person would consider

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<v Speaker 3>to be threatening or abusive with the intention of stirring.

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<v Speaker 4>Up hatredly quite interesting language to put in stirring up, and.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a direct quote. It's everywhere, and it's such an

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<v Speaker 3>interesting term. And obviously that there is a penalty attached

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<v Speaker 3>to if you are found guilty of committing a hate crime,

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<v Speaker 3>and the maximum penalty there is a prison sentence of

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<v Speaker 3>seven years.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, typically when we talk about these types of laws,

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<v Speaker 4>on the other end of the spectrum, there's always people

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<v Speaker 4>who talk about freedom of speech and how to capture

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<v Speaker 4>the balance between hate laws and restricting what someone can

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<v Speaker 4>say and ensuring that people can say what they want

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<v Speaker 4>in a functioning society. Yeap, did the legislation touch on

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<v Speaker 4>that tension? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Did so.

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<v Speaker 3>Lawmakers who were responsible for creating this legislation say, obviously

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<v Speaker 3>they were responsible for creating it, that it adequately balances

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<v Speaker 3>free speech with protecting people against hate speech. So they

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<v Speaker 3>say that this has been achieved in a number of ways. Firstly,

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<v Speaker 3>if a person is charged with hate crimes and they

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<v Speaker 3>can prove their actions were reasonable, that counts as a defense.

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<v Speaker 3>The legislation also references the right to freedom of expression

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<v Speaker 3>that's in the European Convention on Human Rights that includes

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<v Speaker 3>the protection of quote ideas that offend, shock or disturb.

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<v Speaker 3>So essentially saying something shocking just to say something shocking

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<v Speaker 3>is under law legally different from saying something that the

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<v Speaker 3>court finds you would know would incite hatred against the

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<v Speaker 3>protected group, So.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not just what you say say. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So, according to the first Minister, who is the leader

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<v Speaker 3>of Scotland his name is Humsu Yusuf, the law quote

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<v Speaker 3>protects the most vulnerable and marginalized in our society whilst

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<v Speaker 3>also safeguarding freedom of expression and freedom of speech.

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<v Speaker 4>And would expect that from the first Minister his government

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<v Speaker 4>introduced this law.

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<v Speaker 3>He's obviously he's also worked really closely on it because

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<v Speaker 3>he was in the Justice portfolio run it actually passed,

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<v Speaker 3>so he's been like really involved with it the whole

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<v Speaker 3>way through.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, And so what have his opponents said about this law?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there are a few different camps who oppose

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<v Speaker 3>it for different reasons. So the first is the Scottish

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<v Speaker 3>Conservative Party, whose leader Douglas Ross called the legislation dangerous

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<v Speaker 3>and he labeled it a threat to free speech.

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<v Speaker 5>The heat clay market will come into force on epul

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<v Speaker 5>Fool's deep but it is no joke. The Scottish Conservatives

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<v Speaker 5>are paused at the time and still do and it

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<v Speaker 5>is soul flawed that whatever its intentions, and it is

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<v Speaker 5>likely to create more division.

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<v Speaker 3>Separately, there have also been concerns raised by Scottish police.

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<v Speaker 3>They said that they were expecting an influx of online

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<v Speaker 3>abuse complaints. So according to the BBC, and this was

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<v Speaker 3>given directly to them, police have received more than three

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<v Speaker 3>thousand hate crime reports since the new law was introduced

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<v Speaker 3>on Monday, so a week ago. And just again to

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<v Speaker 3>give you a reference, in the whole year of twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty two to twenty three, there were five seven hundred

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<v Speaker 3>and thirty eight charges.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, and those are chargers. Three thousand reports in a

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<v Speaker 4>couple of days.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't know how many of those ever amount You assume.

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<v Speaker 4>That that's going to overtake that number pretty quick.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So that's where some can from police remains and

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<v Speaker 3>the passage of the law, and the reason it took

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<v Speaker 3>so long was so that it would give the police

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<v Speaker 3>longer to prepare for how they were going to deal

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<v Speaker 3>with this influx. Then there have also been some high

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<v Speaker 3>profile critics of the legislation, people including Elon Musk and JK.

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<v Speaker 2>Rolling.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, so there have been people who've clicked on this

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<v Speaker 4>podcast to listen to it because we've got the author

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<v Speaker 4>of Harry Potter in the title. And this is where

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<v Speaker 4>she answers the conversation. What have JK. Rolling and Elon

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<v Speaker 4>Musk actually said.

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<v Speaker 3>So we'll get Elon Musk out of the way first,

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<v Speaker 3>because I mean, he hasn't said heaps, but he did

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<v Speaker 3>weigh in. He said that the laws are an example

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<v Speaker 3>of why it's so important to preserve freedom of speech.

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<v Speaker 2>But then JK. Rolling and look, she lives in Scotland.

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<v Speaker 3>Ok So she has a fair bit to do with Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>and she's had a lot to say. So in her words,

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<v Speaker 3>she believes that the legislation is and our quote here

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<v Speaker 3>wide open to abuse by activists. She alleges that freedom

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<v Speaker 3>of speech and belief are at an end in Skottland

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<v Speaker 3>if the accurate description of biological sex is deemed criminal.

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<v Speaker 3>So that bit about the accurate description of biological sex

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<v Speaker 3>that JK.

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<v Speaker 2>Rowling's talking about there.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's a term to used by a group including Rolling,

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<v Speaker 3>who describe themselves as gender critical feminists. Other people would

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<v Speaker 3>describe them as anti transactivists. We're not going to weigh

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<v Speaker 3>in on that either way. But in a very long

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<v Speaker 3>social media post, Rolling listed a number of trans women,

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<v Speaker 3>some of them who are high profile TV personalities and activists,

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<v Speaker 3>and concluded the posts by calling them men. She then

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<v Speaker 3>went on to say, and I quote, I'm currently out

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<v Speaker 3>of the country, but if what I've written here qualifies

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<v Speaker 3>as an offense under the terms of the new Act,

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<v Speaker 3>I look forward to being arrested when I returned to

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<v Speaker 3>the birthplace of the Scottish Enlightenment.

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<v Speaker 4>So she's kind of putting out a challenge to authorities there.

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<v Speaker 2>And to her fourteen million followers.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, okay, so is she in handcuffs?

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<v Speaker 2>She's not.

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<v Speaker 3>The police have said that while they've had referrals about

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<v Speaker 3>Jake Rolling, that they won't be taking action against her,

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<v Speaker 3>and speaking to the BBC, the first Minister in Scotland,

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<v Speaker 3>I think, tried to use this as an example of

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<v Speaker 3>how he could provide further examples of how this law

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<v Speaker 3>will work.

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<v Speaker 2>So he said to the BBC.

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<v Speaker 3>Jk Rowling's tweets may well be offensive, upsetting and insulting

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<v Speaker 3>to trans people, but it doesn't mean that they meet

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<v Speaker 3>a threshold of criminality of being threatening or abusive or

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<v Speaker 3>intending to stir up hatred. So there the First Minister

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<v Speaker 3>is trying to very clearly designate where the law will

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<v Speaker 3>be used and where it won't be Obviously, this is

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<v Speaker 3>just one.

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<v Speaker 2>Very high profile case that JK.

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<v Speaker 3>Rowling has herself asked for the police to weigh in on.

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<v Speaker 3>Each case won't look the same, but it's definitely a

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<v Speaker 3>fascinating piece of legislation and the time it's taken and

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 3>the response it's gotten, it'll be really interesting to see

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<v Speaker 3>what happens from here.

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<v Speaker 4>A very interesting discussion there, and it'll be interesting to

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<v Speaker 4>see and to track those numbers in terms of how

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<v Speaker 4>many hate crimes are reported and subsequently how many charges

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.719
<v Speaker 4>are laid in Scotland and how that weighs up in

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<v Speaker 4>terms of the previous year's records, to look at the

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<v Speaker 4>impact of those laws. Thanks for that, Zara, and thank

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<v Speaker 4>you for joining us on the Daily OHS this morning

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<v Speaker 4>before we leave. If you're in the mood for a game, well,

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.120
<v Speaker 4>it's funny that because we have just launched a game

0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 4>and every day we do three little riddles in an

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 4>emoji game that we've called Picture This. We've been getting

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.560
<v Speaker 4>some amazing feedback about this game. It's cause a little

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.560
<v Speaker 4>bit of tension in the office, but some healthy tension,

0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 4>I think. And we competition, yeah, and we'd love our

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.320
<v Speaker 4>podcast family to have a play. I'll throw a link

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.199
<v Speaker 4>to the game in today's show notes. We hope you

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 4>enjoy it and let us know what you think. My

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.239
<v Speaker 4>name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 4>Kalgotin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.200
<v Speaker 4>this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 4>people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.520
<v Speaker 4>Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 4>peoples of these countries, past and present