1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 2: This is episode fifteen of the Happy Families podcast. My 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: name is doctor Justin Coulson, and this is the podcast 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: that's dedicated. 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: To making your family happier. 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: In today's podcast, how to have a healthy relationship with 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: your phone, we're talking tech, the way it's affecting our families, 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: the way it's affecting our children, and even the way. 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: It's affecting us the parents. 10 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: Also, I've received a question for three minute therapy that 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 2: I'm going to chat with you about today, looking at 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: this idea of odd opposition or defied disorder and how 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: it works, and also whether or not reward charts can 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: help a child. 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: Who is really really oppositional. 16 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: We'll chat about that shortly first though, As always with 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: the Happy Families podcast, it's sixty seconds psychology. The way 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 2: it works is, I've got sixty seconds to tell you 19 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: about a recent study that's relevant to our topic today. 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: We're looking at technology and families. 21 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: And the one that I'm going to share with you today, 22 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: I think you're really really interesting. Once sixty seconds is up, Russell, 23 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: my producer, is going to make some sort of unfortunate 24 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 2: sound to tell me that I really had to have stopped, 25 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: and that's sixty seconds to give you the science without 26 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: all of the psychobabble and cobbledygook. 27 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: And we're going to get started right now. So. 28 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: Researchers at the University of Washington and the University of 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Michigan have surveyed two hundred and forty nine families with 30 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: children who were aged between ten and seventeen, and they 31 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: asked about their household's most important tech rules and expectations, 32 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: as well as what made. 33 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Those rules easier or harder to follow. 34 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: When researchers ask children what technology rules they wished their 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: parents would follow, which is not what you hear about 36 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: all the time, the answers fell into seven interesting and 37 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: general categories. The first was parents need to be present. 38 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: It's felt that there should be no technology at all 39 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: in certain situations, like when a child's trying to talk 40 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: to a parent. 41 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: The children wanted more autonomy. 42 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: They felt that parents should allow them to make their 43 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: own decisions about technology without interference. They suggested that parents 44 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: need to moderate their used Parents should use tech in 45 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: moderation and in balance with other activities. They also said 46 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: no tech while driving, no hypocrisy. 47 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: Parents have got to practice. 48 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: What they preach, including at meal times and no oversharing. 49 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: Parents are sharing too much information. That's sixty seconds. I 50 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: thought I was going to get there today. I didn't 51 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: quite make it. The other thing that I didn't mention 52 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: that parents were told by children was that parents should 53 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: establish and enforce technology related rules for children's own protection. 54 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: In other words, kids said, we need some sort of supervision. 55 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 2: I'll try and get it into sixty seconds next fortnite 56 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: when we do the podcast again with sixty second psychology. 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: But I've got a question for you, and I'm going 58 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: to ask this a couple of times. 59 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: What's the biggest issue that you face when it comes 60 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: to your children and technology? You can leave your answers 61 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com. Do I use slash podcast 62 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: slash fifteen as in the number fifteen? What is the 63 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 2: biggest issue you face when it comes to your children 64 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: and technology? I asked a bunch of parents and they 65 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: told me. 66 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 3: This ah to keep them off the video games. 67 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm probably learning their time. 68 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 4: On it keeping them off it. 69 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: Um. I guess probably that they know more than I do. 70 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: Kids and technology, bidding and battling the screen tsunami. 71 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about this right after the break. 72 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 5: Most children are born curious and confident. They love to 73 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 5: explore the world, meet new friends, and try new things. 74 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 5: But between the ages of two and twelve, confidence often 75 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 5: drops off. Why and how can we rebuild it? Creating 76 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 5: Confident Kids is an easy to read ebook for busy 77 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 5: parents where you'll discover the five biggest mistakes most parents 78 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 5: may that crush their kids' confidence, and the five best 79 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 5: confidence boosters for building resilience and well being in your children. 80 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 5: Creating Confident Kids by doctor Justin Coulson at Happy families 81 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 5: dot com dot A. 82 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: Youu it's the Happy Family's podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coulson. 83 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: We're talking the screen tsunami the Internet INVA. A little 84 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: while ago, I mentioned in sixty second Psychology a fascinating 85 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: study about the rules around screen time and how kids 86 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: feel like mums and dads are kind of behind the curve. 87 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: They're getting it a bit wrong, by the way, I'll 88 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: post the link to that study in the show notes 89 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com dot AU slash podcast Slash fifteen. 90 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: So here's the situation. 91 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: You're busy doing stuff, you send the kids off to 92 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: their rooms or to the lounge room or the playroom, 93 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: rumpus room so that they can amuse themselves and give 94 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: you some space. And unsurprisingly, they pick up their screens 95 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: and they don't want to put them down when you 96 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: say that's it. Times up, So what do you do? 97 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: I stalked those parents at the school gate once again 98 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: this week, and some of the parents said that their 99 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: children are on their devices too much. 100 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: If you're letting me, probably play fourteen hours a. 101 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Day, So how many does he actually get. 102 00:04:54,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 6: Weekdays it doesn't get much, but weekends probably four to 103 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 6: six hours. 104 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: Four to six hours a day on the weekend. 105 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: Well, I can't have that's a lot. Half an hour 106 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: a day. 107 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: I asked one mum what she thought the best way 108 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: to respond to screen time challenges was, and she just deferred, Oh, I. 109 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 4: Guess my husband's pretty much more up to date on 110 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 4: that sort of stuff, so he monitors. 111 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: Them and sort of knows what they're doing and that 112 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 3: sort of thing. You just defer to him. I just defer. 113 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 114 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: So there's all sorts of different ways that we can 115 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: deal with this challenge. I asked for some solutions to 116 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: the different issues that parents are facing when it comes 117 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: to screen times. I mean, do they ever say no 118 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 2: when you tell the kids to get off their screens? 119 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, most of the time. So how do you 120 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: deal with that? 121 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: So generally say that if they're not sort of obedient, 122 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: they're not going to get it tomorrow. 123 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. And how's that work for you? 124 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty good? 125 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 3: Actually? 126 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, And here was some other responses for how we 127 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: can get our kids off their screen. 128 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 4: We try and use a time limit where they know 129 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 4: they'll get thirty minutes of technology and they can choose 130 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 4: between their technologies, be it on the PC or be 131 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 4: it on the iPad. And it works very well with 132 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 4: my ten year old daughter, but not so well with 133 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 4: my six year old son. 134 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 2: Do you get sick of having the monitor the time 135 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: all the time and keep an eye on exactly how 136 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: long they've been on and what they've been doing. 137 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: Do you just sort of think why do I have 138 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: to do this? No? 139 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 4: We actually use the timer on the kitchen oven and 140 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 4: they know that when they hear it that times up. 141 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 3: You're still quite fond of the screen. 142 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 6: But if we're trying to get him off the video 143 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 6: games and trying to get him onto Google and looking 144 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 6: the documentaries or what we started is we've started giving 145 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 6: him some topics. Last week you did on a little 146 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 6: bit of a research sort of a thing on aircraft 147 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 6: and things like that. Thinks that he likes or he 148 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 6: would we think he's going to like, and we try 149 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 6: to get him to go and find out. 150 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: In this podcast, we're looking at how to make the 151 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: Internet invasion, the screen tsunami, less cumbersome, less exhausting, and 152 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: less outright punishing on our entire family. 153 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean, screens are here to stay. 154 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: And our kids are all over them. They know more 155 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: than we do in many cases, and they want to 156 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: be on there. It's where their friends are and it's 157 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: where they hang out. 158 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Today. 159 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: I was doing some research to find out how much 160 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: they're using their screens. One study that I stumbled upon 161 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: said that teenagers are sending on average three thousand, three 162 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: hundred text messages every month on their devices. Girls tend 163 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: to send more, apparently about four thousand and fifty, but 164 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: the average is three thousand, three hundred. Now, I'm not 165 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: sure how they collected that data and how they were 166 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: able to devise the info. I'm just reporting on it, 167 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: but you work it out. That's over one hundred per 168 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: day if we go with that average of thirty three hundred. Now, 169 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: let's assume that kids are awake for fifteen hours a day. 170 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: That's seven point three text messages per hour, or one 171 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: every eight point two minutes. That's not including any snapchats, 172 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: any Kick messages, any Instagram messages, any Facebook messages, any 173 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: Twitter messages, any Tumble messages, any What's Up messages, WhatsApp messages, and. 174 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: Any of that sort of stuff. 175 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: We're talking tremendous numbers of messages and social interaction going 176 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: on on devices all day, every day with our teenagers. Now, 177 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: is all of this problem? Are we being silly as 178 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: parents by telling our kids to get off the phone, 179 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: and are we exacerbating the problem by our example. I 180 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: think the answer to the first question is no, we're 181 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: not being silly. The answer to the second question is yes, 182 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: we're being a terrible example. On average, parents are making 183 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes and setting and modeling entirely the 184 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: wrong example for our kids. So let's go through three 185 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: reasons that we need to get our screen time balanced. 186 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: Well. 187 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 2: Reason number one's affecting our social relationships. I want to 188 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: tell you about a couple of studies. There was one 189 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: experiment conducted last year. There were fifty one kids that 190 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: were sent off to summer camp, an American study. Obviously, 191 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: in Australia we don't have so many summer camps. But 192 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: in the US, these kids, fifty one of them went 193 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: off on a five day summer camp where there was 194 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: no screens, no TVs, no computers, no phones, nothing not allowed. 195 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: And they were compared with fifty four children who stayed 196 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: home and used their devices the way they normally would. Now, 197 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: both groups took some tests before and after the camp, 198 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: and the tests asked participants to have a look at 199 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: some videos and some photographs and infer the emotional states 200 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: of the people in the images. There were no verbal 201 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: cues in the in the videos, by the way, it 202 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 2: was just silent stuff. After five days of interacting face 203 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: to face with no screens, the recognition that the children 204 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: have who had gone to summer camp of the nonverbal 205 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 2: emotion cues was significantly more than that of the control 206 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: group for both facial expression in the photos and also 207 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: the videotape scenes. It seems like time with friends combined 208 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 2: with time away from screen improves social and emotional intelligence 209 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: in just five days. Here's another interesting study Netta Weinstein, 210 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: one of one of my favorite researchers. Canadian researcher did 211 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: some work with some colleagues where she asked pairs of 212 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,359 Speaker 2: strangers to talk about what she defined as a moderately 213 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: intimate topic. And what we're talking about here is an 214 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: interesting event that had occurred to a person in the 215 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: last month or so. And these two strangers had to 216 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: talk for ten minutes about this moderately interesting and intimate event. 217 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: They had to leave their own belongings outside the laboratory 218 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: and they walked into this private booth. Now within the booth, 219 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: they found two chairs facing each other and just out 220 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: of their line of sight, but on a desk nearby 221 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: there was. 222 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: A book and one other item. 223 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to the pair, The key difference in their interactions 224 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: was go to be the second item on the desk. 225 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: Some pairs had their conversations with a mobile phone on 226 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: the desk, while other pairs chatted while there was a 227 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: notebook laying nearby. Once they'd finished their discussion, each of 228 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: the strangers finished some questionnaires about the relationship quality and 229 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: the level of connectness that they felt in the conversation. 230 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: The level of closeness that they experienced. And what the 231 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: research has found was that the pairs who chatted with 232 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: a mobile phone on the desk, even though it wasn't 233 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 2: either of theirs, and even though it didn't do anything, 234 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 2: it was just sort of out of the line of sight, 235 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 2: they reported lower relationship quality and less closeness. Bizarre they 236 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: did a follow up study. This time they were looking 237 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 2: at what was being talked about. In one context, participants 238 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: were asked to talk about their thoughts and feelings about 239 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: plastic trees not very important. In the other context, they 240 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: were to discuss a meaningful topic, one of the most 241 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: important things that had happened to them during the past year, 242 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: once again either a notepad or a mobile phone on 243 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: the desk near them. 244 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: Once again, the findings were consistent. 245 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: When they were answering questions about relationship quality, of trust, 246 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: the empathy they felt from their discussion partners, it seemed 247 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: that the people who were having a conversation with a 248 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: mobile telephone in the vicinity pretty much said, yeah, I 249 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: didn't get the feeling that the relationship was quite there. 250 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: The levels of connection weren't quite there. Now. 251 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: I had a chat with a teenager recently who said 252 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: she'd been to visit a friend in a state. They'd 253 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: moved into state a while ago, and they missed their friends, 254 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: so she went off in a state to visit with 255 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: her friend. 256 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: She said, the whole time I was with my friend, 257 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: she was just texting. 258 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: She even went to the bathroom for about fifteen minutes 259 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: and took her phone just so that she could text 260 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: her friends and not have to deal with me in 261 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: the environment. She said, it was really uncomfortable the whole 262 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: time that I was there. But when I got dropped 263 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: off at the airport, as soon as I'd gone into 264 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: the airport and checked my baggage and gone through security, 265 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: my phone started sort of, you know, buzzing, And here's 266 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: this friend who had barely conversed with it for the 267 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: duration of her stay, saying all this stuff like I 268 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 2: missed you so much and so great to be with you. 269 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you this, and I'll by the way, 270 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, all that kind of thing. 271 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 2: Relationships are affected by our mobile devices, whether we're in 272 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 2: friendships or whether we're in families, and we need to 273 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: make sure that we're not letting our devices affect our 274 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: friendships too much and our relationships too much. So here's 275 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: a question to consider. Is using my phone while I'm 276 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: with this person going to grow our relationship or interfere 277 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: with our relationship? The study in sixty second Psychology suggests 278 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 2: kids wish we would put our phones down more. 279 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: Okay, here's the second thing to consider. 280 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: How is our device usage affecting our health? How many 281 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: hours of sleep do we need a night. Research suggests 282 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: that adults usually need somewhere at between seven and nine hours. Teenages, 283 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: by the way, need around about nine and a half. 284 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 2: When we go to sleep, our body produces something called melotone, 285 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: and it helps us to fall asleep. Researchers have discovered 286 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 2: that when we have as little as a couple of 287 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: hours of exposure to the light emitted from our devices, 288 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: we see our melotonin production decrease by around about twenty 289 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: two percent. So if we're trying to go to sleep 290 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: but we're on our devices, we're going to struggle. In 291 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: addition to that, we get stimulated by our devices, by 292 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 2: our games, and with all of that excitation in our brain, 293 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: all this dope meine buzzing around. That's a neurochemical that 294 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: makes us feel really good. With all of this buzzing around, 295 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 2: what happens is our brain struggles to relax. The screen 296 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: suppresses our melotonin and we can't go to sleep. It 297 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: interrupts our sleep, and then we wake up tied the 298 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: next morning because we haven't had good quality sleep because 299 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: we were up too late, We didn't get enough of it, 300 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: and the quality was lower because we had interrupted sleep. 301 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: Combine that with the fact that quite often we sleep 302 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: with our mobile. 303 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: Phones in our rooms and during the. 304 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: Night somebody might facebook us or somebody might send us 305 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: a text message, and that wakes us up. That glow 306 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: illuminates the ceiling of our room, and we're not getting 307 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: to go through the different stages of sleep that are 308 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: so important for healthy sleep hygiene. While we're asleep, we 309 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: need to go through the four stages of sleep. We 310 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: need to go into ram sleep. The reason for that 311 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: is because it consolidates our learning. It helps our body 312 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: to rest properly. We go through a process, especially our teenagers, 313 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: called something something called synaptic pruning, which gets rid of 314 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: a whole lot of stuff in our brain that doesn't 315 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: need to be there. 316 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: When we're asleep and. 317 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: We're going through these phases of sleep, our brain gets 318 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: rid of a whole lot of junk byproducts. The physiology 319 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: of our brain actually changes our body looks after itself better. 320 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: In fact, sleep is related to growth hormone production. Our 321 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: teenagers grow better. People who don't sleep enough at greater 322 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: risk of experiencing obesity and overweight. So it's more than 323 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: just shutting our eyes. So what can we do about this, Well, 324 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: here's a couple of ideas. We can actually put our 325 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: phone on flight mode when we go to sleep, or 326 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: we can put it in another room so it's not 327 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: going to bother us. My question here is using my 328 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: phone now go to help me to sleep or is 329 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: it going to wreck me for tomorrow? Am I going 330 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: to be a better parent because I'm surfing Facebook or 331 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: news dot com dot Au? Or am I going to 332 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 2: be a better parent if I just shut the thing 333 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: off and go to sleep. And the third thing that 334 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: we need to look at is whether or not our 335 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: devices affect our well being. 336 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: Fascinating study. 337 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: Joseph Cherokei, one of my former colleagues from the University 338 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 2: of Wollongongen now at the Australian Catholic University, has been 339 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: doing a longitudinal study for the last or nearly a 340 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: decade now surveying Ossie teens and looking at their health 341 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: and wellbeing and their lifestyle factors and things like the 342 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: way their parents are raising them. And He's discovered in 343 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: a recent study published with two thousand and sixty eight 344 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: children here in Australia, following them from grade eight to 345 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: grade eleven, that the more they use the internet, the 346 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: poorer their mental health. But the reverse is not true. 347 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: People don't seem to develop any sort of compulsive Internet 348 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: use because of poor mental health. It seems that internet addiction, 349 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: screen addiction, spending too much time online leads to lower 350 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:51,239 Speaker 2: mental health. Here's another interesting thing. Use of screens increases 351 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: through high school, but especially in the year eight to 352 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: nine period plus. It interferes with capacity to study well, 353 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: to get into flow, to sleep, to process information. All 354 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: of this stuff happens at a lower level, which leads 355 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 2: to poorer outcomes for our kids. 356 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 1: So three things to consider. 357 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: Number One, technology does affect our relationships all too often 358 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: in negative ways. Same with sleep, and same with wellbeing. 359 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: It affects our sleep and our well being. 360 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 2: All too often in negative ways. So that prompts the 361 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: question is technology bad? Well, yes, of course no. Now 362 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, No, it's not. Technology is wonderful, but 363 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: we've got to have some serious conversations about technology in 364 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: our families and get our technology use right. So these 365 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: are my top three tips. There are many, many, many 366 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: more tips that I could give you, but these are 367 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 2: my three favorite. I hope that they help. Tip number one, 368 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: no phones or devices or screens for at least thirty 369 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: minutes before bed, and put your phone on flight mode 370 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: while you sleep. That will help you with your sleeping. 371 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 2: Number two. If you try to do anything at all 372 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: that's important, whether it's study or whether it's work, turn 373 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: your phone onto flight mode. That way you can get 374 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: into flow and you'll be more productive and you'll remember more. 375 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: And tip number three if you're having dinner, maybe you've 376 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: gone out with friends or with family. If you're having 377 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: dinner and somebody's phone rings, they're not allowed to pick 378 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: it up. Whoever picks it up has to do something uncomfortable. 379 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: I know when I go with friends. When Kylie and 380 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: I go out with friends, if anybody looks at the phone, 381 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: phones are all in pockets or on the table screen down. 382 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: If anybody looks at their phone during dinner, they pay 383 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: for dinner. Maybe you can come up with something fun 384 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: like that. In the family, whoever looks at their phone 385 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: or their screen during dinner time has to do the 386 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: dishes or has to do something else that's sufficiently uncomfortable, 387 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: but not as a punishment, but as fun to highlight 388 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 2: the importance of keeping screen switched off. So my question 389 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: for this week's a really simple one. What one thing 390 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: can your family agree on to get the balance right 391 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: with tech and not get swept away by this screen tsunami. 392 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: You can go to Happy Families dot com dot au, 393 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 2: slash podcast Slash fifteen and tell me what you think. 394 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: I'm eager to hear what's happening for you. 395 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 7: Doctor Justin Coulson is one of Australia's most respected parenting voices. 396 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 7: His seminars have equipped and empowered thousands of parents to 397 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 7: make their families happier. But sometimes getting to a parenting 398 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 7: seminar can be tough his work and other commitments. Then 399 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 7: there's the issue of the children and babysitters. Now you 400 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 7: can watch one of doctor Justin's seminars from the comfort 401 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 7: of your own home and at a time that works 402 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 7: for you. Sit in on one of doctor Justin's parenting seminars. 403 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 7: As he takes you from confusion to clarity. You'll learn 404 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 7: how to build a strong connection with your children, how 405 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 7: to really understand them, and how to get discipline right. 406 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 7: What your child needs from you. A seminar from doctor 407 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 7: Justin Coulson. Download this ninety minute seminar now or purchase 408 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 7: the DVD at Happy families dot com dot au. 409 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 2: It's the Happy Family's podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coulson for 410 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: today's three minute therapy. We're moving away from the screen 411 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 2: top for a while, and I'm responding to a parent 412 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: who's asking me this. She wrote, Dear doctor Justin, my 413 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: son just turned five. He's always been energetic. We didn't 414 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 2: know anyone with kids prior to him, so we always 415 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: just accepted this as normal, but a lot of hard work. 416 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: As he got older, his behavior became worse, hitting, yelling, 417 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: and so on. Towards the end of last year, we 418 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: had a preschool field officer witness a meltdown which resulted 419 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: in another child at my son's kindergarten being hurt. 420 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: She recommended we seek some assistance. We did so. 421 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: We did all the tests, did all the assessments, but 422 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 2: couldn't place him in any category but very close to 423 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: the adhd Odd area. She recommended that we seek some 424 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 2: regular appointments, but we required a referral for this, She said, 425 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: we went to a pediatrician. The pediatrician investigated and said 426 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: there was nothing wrong, and then asked us to do 427 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: a behavior chart with rewards. This is a new We've 428 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 2: tried it before, and needless to say, despite our best efforts, 429 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: it isn't working. Our son's behavior is getting worse. He's 430 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: just started school. He's hurt several children and teachers and 431 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: had to be forcibly moved from certain situations for the 432 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: safety of the other kids. I feel guilty he's hurting 433 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 2: so many people. I feel guilty that I'm pushing for 434 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: some sort of diagnosis. I feel guilty that if there's 435 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: something there, nothing's happening because the pediatrician is saying nothing's wrong. 436 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: I'm scared. He's a big kid. We can't control him. 437 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: What are we going to do in a few years time. 438 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: I'm at a loss. 439 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: And I need help. So here's my response. 440 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: And the first thing that I would say is, maybe 441 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: this little guy's just not quite ready for school. 442 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: Maybe he just. 443 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: Needs to mature a little bit, but I want to 444 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: deal with two specific challenges over the next three minutes, 445 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: oppositional defiant disorder and reward charts, and then I'm going 446 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: to quickly turn to some solutions. 447 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: That will work. Let's start with the ODD. 448 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: So according to the DSM five, which is the Diagnostic 449 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which is basically the 450 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: psychiatry and psychology Bible, ODD patterns of behavior fall into 451 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: three categories. 452 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: Angry and irritable mood. 453 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: This is when a child loses their temper, is touchy, 454 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 2: easily annoyed, angry, resentful, also argumentative defiant behavior. This is 455 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: when a child argues with adults and people in authority 456 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: and actively defies or refuses to comply with any requests 457 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: and deliberately annoys people and blames others when there's problems. 458 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: And then there's vindictiveness. We see this when a child 459 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: is spiteful or vindictive. If they've done that in the 460 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: last few months, then we would suggest that there could 461 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: be a problem here. Now, for a child to be 462 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: diagnosed with ODD, the child must have at least four 463 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: of the symptoms that I've just mentioned. They have to 464 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 2: demonstrate defiance with at least one individual who is not 465 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: a sibling and have significant problems at school or at 466 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: home because of the defiance. And it has to be 467 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: occurring on its own rather than be part of another 468 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: mental health problem. And it needs to be going on 469 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: for at least six months. Now, there's a handful of 470 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: other things to consider. I won't go into them here. 471 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 2: You can look them up by googling positional definant disorder 472 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 2: on the internet. You'll find everything that you need to 473 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: know there. But here's my first question. 474 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: Is this normal. 475 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 2: Behavior for children or is it brad ininness or is 476 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: it actually a mental disorder? See, the great challenge is 477 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: that many of them, these problems are really normal for children. 478 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: ODD gives a label to challenging behavior. 479 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 2: What that can do sometimes is it can allow us 480 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: to get extra support, It can allow us to get medication. 481 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: But my feeling is that such an. 482 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: Approach actually disempowers both you as a parent and your child. 483 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: Except in the most serious of situations. It's really easy 484 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: to just say, well, I'm the victim of this label. 485 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: I can't do anything. It's a medical condition. The real 486 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: question to me is what's causing the problem. Is it biology, 487 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: is it psychology or relationships, or school or something else 488 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: in his environment, something contextual, Because if a child's angry 489 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 2: and defiant, this means that they don't like what's going 490 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: on and they're saying something about it. 491 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: Now, this is a good thing. They might be. 492 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: Expressing their dislike and their discontent in some really inconvenient 493 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: ways and even downright hostile ways, but we can work 494 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: through this. Being upset about something doesn't mean that a 495 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 2: child is disordered. It means that they need to be understood, 496 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: which brings us to reward charts. Many medical practitioners, pediatricians, 497 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: and even psychology experts go straight to what I call 498 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies Scnarian behaviorism, which basically means they rely 499 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: on what BF Skinner talked about punishment and rewards, and 500 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 2: I strongly disagree. 501 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: Here's a couple of reasons that reward charts don't work. 502 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: I mean, they're the go to strategy, right, this is 503 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 2: what everybody goes to in the parenting toolkit. We need rewards, 504 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: we need punishment, we need time out, we need praise, 505 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: all that kind of thing. But rewards actually undermine our 506 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 2: efforts to improve the situation. Research on motivation says that 507 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: when you reward someone for doing something, there can be 508 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 2: all sorts of negative repercussions that you might not expect. 509 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 2: So here are some reasons that rewards fail our kids. 510 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: Number one, it's all about parental power. You're the one 511 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: that's pulling the strings. Look, it's great to have kids 512 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: doing the right thing, but when they're only doing it 513 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: because of the goodie they'll get, they're not getting why 514 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: it's good to. 515 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: Do the right thing. 516 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: They're doing it because we've essentially coerced them into it 517 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: in a sugar. 518 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: Coated, smiley way. 519 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: Here's the second reason reward charts often lead to punishment 520 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 2: and conflict. You think about it, You promise a goody, 521 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: but if your child maybe you say to your child, 522 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: if you can behave and not hit anybody this week, 523 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen. 524 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: It's going to be wonderful. 525 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: But failure to tick all those boxes means failure to 526 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: get the goodie, and that means the child feels punished. 527 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: They feel like they're not good enough, they feel like 528 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: they're horrible people, they feel like they can never do 529 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: the right thing for their parents, And it looks like 530 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 2: we're punishing them. Now, some parents are going to say, well, 531 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 2: that's what consequences are all about. But if we don't 532 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 2: offer the reward, then we don't have to punish for 533 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: non compliance, for failure. And apart from that, the consequence 534 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: is actually an external one that we're imposing rather than 535 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: a natural consequence. You know, when you hit people, people 536 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 2: don't like you, you get left alone. 537 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: Okay. 538 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 2: Number three, reward charts are hard work for parents. Every 539 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: parent I talk to says that it's so hard work. 540 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: I've got to be on top of everything all the time. 541 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 2: It's just one more thing to do. I'm constantly monitoring. 542 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 2: It's just too hard. The fourth reason is that, and 543 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: I think this is the most important one of all, really, 544 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: reward charts ignore reasons. Now, as I mentioned earlier, what's 545 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: causing the defiant behavior, understanding that is far more important, 546 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: and then trying to band aid over it with rewards. 547 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: Here's two more reasons that rewards are a problem. I 548 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: think that reward charts reduce intrinsic motivation. Child might be 549 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 2: motivated to get rewards, but they're not going to be 550 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: motivated to behave well, they're just doing it to get 551 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: the goodie. Once the good he's gone. The behavior goes 552 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 2: back to normal motivation for what we want them to do. 553 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: Drops it's all about the goody And the last point, 554 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: reward charts actually increase selfishness. See, when we promise rewards 555 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: for doing something, our children are thinking of themselves. They're 556 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 2: not thinking of others. Usually what we want is a 557 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 2: defiant child to think about how he or she can 558 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 2: be more empathic towards others and more considerate of others. 559 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 2: But rewards just increase the focus on me, me, me, 560 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: me me. So what do we do if we're not 561 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: going to medicate, or at least if we go to 562 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: try and avoid medicating, but we need help and we're 563 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 2: not going to use reward charts? 564 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: Here are five tips. No easy answers, by the way, 565 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 1: but here are five suggestions. 566 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: First of all, I think it's important to try to 567 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 2: really understand the struggle and challenge that this little guy faces. 568 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: Does he need more time with you? Is there an 569 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: issue with the school? Why is he angry? 570 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: I mean asking him probably isn't going to help. He's 571 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: unlikely to know, but we've got to try to work 572 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: it out. Is there something that's changed in your home life? Recently. 573 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 2: That's causing this. Why is he so angry? Number two, 574 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: Build the relationship stronger. I mean, your son probably gets 575 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: a lot of correction and direction because he's so oppositional. 576 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: So spend time just being together and developing the relationship 577 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: rather than always telling him what to do. Go bike 578 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: riding or camping, or walking with the dog, or go 579 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: to the park or the beach, or go and kick 580 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: a ball. Help him feel appreciated, help him feel important. 581 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: Build the foundation of the relationship. Number three, try and 582 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: develop some ideas and solutions together when he's not mad, 583 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: I mean, help him to be responsible, to develop strategies 584 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: that he's okay with, and help him when he makes 585 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: mistakes rather than getting mad at him. 586 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: Number four, Teach him about perspective. This is really important. 587 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: Ask him how others feel when he hurts them a problem. 588 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: Solve ways, I should say, to communicate what he wants 589 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: and what he needs without hurting others. And the last 590 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: idea is this just offering choices within limits that you 591 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 2: see as being okay. Often kids act out in anger 592 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: because they feel too controlled. 593 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: I mean, limits matter. We need to have limits. 594 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting for a moment that there shouldn't be, 595 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 2: But autonomy is also essential for well being. I think 596 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: that if you're in this situation, work on these strategies 597 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: for a month or two, then take your son to 598 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 2: another specialist for another opinion. If he's really dealing with 599 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: the disorder, then he needs specialist help. 600 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: But if he's just angry and frustrated, he needs his parents. 601 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: Okay, that's I shouldn't call it three minute therapy because 602 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: I can't get through it in three minutes. 603 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: We should call it five minute therapy. What do you 604 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: think five minutes? I don't know. 605 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: Up next on the Happy Families podcast and final thoughts 606 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: on the screen time tsunami issue and a way for 607 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: you to get a big discount on my twenty one 608 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 2: days to a Happier Family online video program. 609 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 7: Are you endlessly nagging, shouting, pleading, threatening, and demanding that 610 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 7: your children behave Do you live in a dictatorship where 611 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 7: the kids are in charge? Timeout is not? Your only option? 612 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 7: Is an ebook with discipline strategies and ideas that work, 613 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 7: and they work without you carrying a load of parental 614 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 7: guilt around all day. No more yelling, threatening, bribing or timeouts. 615 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 7: From day one, you'll notice the difference in your children 616 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 7: and they'll notice the difference in you. Time out is 617 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 7: not your only option. By doctor Justin Coulson, available as 618 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 7: an ebook and an audiobook at Happyfamilies dot com dot Au. 619 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 2: It's the Happy Famili's podcast. This is doctor Justin Coulson. 620 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: We're wrapping up our screen tsunami Dealing with Screens podcast today. 621 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: Fascinating research from the United States and Australia. Lags a 622 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: little bit in statistics, but we don't have great stats 623 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: here in Australia, so I can only go with US 624 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: statistics on this one. But in the USA, eighty two 625 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: percent of one year olds and ninety five percent of 626 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: two year olds are watching t and. 627 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: Videos on a typical weekday. 628 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: One year old spend an average of ten hours a 629 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: week watching screens, two year old spend approximately fifteen hours 630 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: a week watching screens, and almost half of our toddlers 631 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: are watching at least fifteen hours per week. Now, screen 632 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 2: time recommendations really strongly guide us towards keeping our one 633 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: and two year olds away from screens entirely. 634 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: They're just not good for them. 635 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 7: Now. 636 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: I know it's not practical to keep them completely off it, but. 637 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: As one last thought, We've got to get the screen 638 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: time balance right. It's unfortunately used as an escape too often. 639 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: It's used as a way of just coping, and it's 640 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 2: not a good way to cope. So hopefully there's some 641 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: helpful ideas in today's Happy Families podcast for you to 642 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 2: tackle the screen tsunami. I'd love to get your ideas 643 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: once again at Happy Families dot com dot I use 644 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 2: slash podcast slash fifteen. 645 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: How do you deal with screens in your home? Oh? 646 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: By the way, I love the idea of using the 647 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: oven timer. I've done that many times in my home 648 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 2: myself and we found that it's in a really great strategy. Okay, well, 649 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: that's it for the podcast for this fortnite. Thanks so 650 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: much for listening to the podcast. I hope your family 651 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: is happier because of it and that it helps you 652 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: to grow as a parent and as a person. I 653 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 2: also want to remind you if you go to Happy 654 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: Families dot com dot Au and look up the twenty 655 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: one Days to a Happier Family program, you can and 656 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: you will make your family happier in twenty one days. 657 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 2: In fact, I get emails pretty regularly from people who 658 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: are doing the program online in their own time. Who 659 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: say you promise me it would take twenty one days. 660 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: I found that I'm happier and sow's my family in 661 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 2: in just one or two days. 662 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: It really can work. 663 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: And if you'd like to get fifty dollars off, that's 664 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: fifty dollars off a ninety seven dollars program. We're talking 665 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: a big discount here. Just use the code podcast all 666 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: in capitals, podcast podcast all one word and that's a 667 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: special offer for you for taking the time to listen 668 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: to the podcast and participate in what's going on here 669 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 2: at happy families. 670 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: Dot com dot AU. 671 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: If you'd like any more info about it, you'll find 672 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: show notes and a whole lot more at happy families 673 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: dot com dot I use slash podcast slash fifteen as 674 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: in the number fifteen, and once again, can I ask 675 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: you to rate the podcast. Go to iTunes, subscribe to 676 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: us so you get it every fortnight, and rate it 677 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 2: so that people can find out about it. This is 678 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: how we increase the visibility and this is how we 679 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: help other people to find out how they can make 680 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: their family happier. Thanks once again, I hope this has 681 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: made a difference. And remember if things are tough. You 682 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: don't have to be the best parent in the world. 683 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: You just have to be the best parent in your 684 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: child's world. I'm doctor Justin Coulson. It's the Happy Families Podcast.