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Speaker 1: A life without passion is a life that's filled with

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Speaker 1: struggles and challenges. They've got to find things that they're

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Speaker 1: passionate about in so much away. Research with adolescents shows

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Speaker 1: that they're tired, they're bored in school, and it just

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Speaker 1: breaks my heart that they don't have passion.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 3: wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I'm doctor Justin Coulson and I'm joined today by

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Speaker 4: my co host and my wife, Missus. Happy Family is

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Speaker 4: Kylie Coulson, with the parents of six kids. I've authored

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Speaker 4: six books about raising happy families.

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Speaker 3: Someone we've loved chatting to over the course of this

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Speaker 3: month is Mark.

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Speaker 2: Bracket, Professor Mark Brackett, Thank very much.

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Speaker 3: Mark is an emotional I go to say that all

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Speaker 3: the time. Emotion not emotional. He's an emotion scientist.

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Speaker 2: He's on an emotional scientist. He might be now and then.

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Speaker 3: He is, yes, but he's an emotion scientist. And he's

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Speaker 3: a professor and the director of the Yell Center of

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Speaker 3: Emotional Intelligence, so he's pretty switched on with this stuff.

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Speaker 2: He knows this stuff.

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Speaker 4: We spoke to Mark last week about emotional intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Your kid did not trigger you. You constructed that trigger,

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Speaker 1: right because five people there, wife's that kid be here?

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Speaker 1: Like that's an important piece for parents to understand.

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Speaker 4: And as you heard, Mark spoke a lot about the

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Speaker 4: triggers that can set us off in our parenting journey.

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Speaker 2: We've got Mark back for one last chat.

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Speaker 4: Before Christmas because Franklin, we love talking to him and

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Speaker 4: he's got so much wisdom.

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Speaker 2: Mark, thank you so much for being with us again.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be on your podcast and then

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Speaker 1: help it's helpful.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to find out more about how we can

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Speaker 3: regulate those emotions and stop being triggered so easily. It

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Speaker 3: seems to be like the peak word at the moment,

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Speaker 3: it's twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: We're all being triggered.

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Speaker 1: So and pointant is not you know, calm is not

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Speaker 1: always the answer, right. Sometimes you want to be high

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Speaker 1: energy and sometimes you want to show your anger because

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Speaker 1: there is something that there's a fire in the house. Right.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's really about the parents number one,

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Speaker 1: being very highly self aware, right you like, for example,

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Speaker 1: during this coronavirus you know, COVID crisis, I have become

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Speaker 1: so aware of my own triggers, like more than I

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Speaker 1: ever have before, because I'm in quarantine with my family.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not used to being home, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: home right now. My mother in law is living with us.

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Speaker 1: She's not supposed to be living with us, but she

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Speaker 1: got stuck here because she can't get back to Panama.

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Speaker 1: And so it's like, wow, Mark, Like maybe you need

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Speaker 1: to enter the day through the lens of your best

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Speaker 1: self as a husband. What would that look like? And

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Speaker 1: so that's a strategy that we ask parents to do,

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Speaker 1: is just take a moment and think about the parent

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Speaker 1: that you want to be. How do you want to

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Speaker 1: be seen, how do you want to be talked about,

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Speaker 1: how do you want to be experienced as a parent,

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Speaker 1: And like literally just spend time writing out the words compassionate, loving.

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Speaker 1: I did some research on this recently, and the number

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Speaker 1: one word, at least here in America is patient. Like

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Speaker 1: every parent is just like they've lost their patience. So

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Speaker 1: like when you wake up in the morning, maybe you

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Speaker 1: draw the word patients in your mirror in your bathroom.

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Speaker 1: You're like, today, when I walk down for breakfast, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be the patient dad, the patient, Mom, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be caring, I'm going to be loving, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be compassionate. And we know that that helps.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a prevention strategy because so much of our

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Speaker 1: emotion regulation is about reaction, right, it's about like not

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Speaker 1: being prepared and they're like boom. Instead we're asking people

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Speaker 1: be preventionists, right, think about your best self in advance,

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Speaker 1: and then if you enter through that lens, like I

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Speaker 1: do that with my mother in law because she's driving

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Speaker 1: that in my mind. And I work outside now in

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Speaker 1: the backyard. It's a while, and then I have to

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Speaker 1: come in and it's a meal, and then it's a

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Speaker 1: whole thing with the meal. And so I'm like, Mark,

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Speaker 1: you are the best freaking son in law that ever existed.

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Speaker 1: That's the self that you're going to present. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent of the time it works. Ten

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Speaker 1: percent I'm like a mess, but you know, ninety percent

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Speaker 1: is pretty good. So that's a really good piece I

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Speaker 1: think for parents to understand is like, be your best self.

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Speaker 1: I can't say that enough. And then you have to

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Speaker 1: learn the strategies. You know, you have to know how

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Speaker 1: to do the breathing exercises to deactivate. You've got to

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself. You've got to get the sleep in,

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Speaker 1: you've got to get the eating healthy, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to get the movement in. And importantly, you've got to

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Speaker 1: have the cognitive strategies. And I think that it's it's

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Speaker 1: an injustice that we have not taught everyone how to

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Speaker 1: engage in more positive self talk and reframing.

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Speaker 3: Mark, could you give us an example of both positive

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Speaker 3: talk and reframing.

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Speaker 1: So one thing that research shows is that if you

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Speaker 1: distance yourself from your emotion, So like I'm triggered, and

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Speaker 1: I like, Mark, you're the feelings master, Mark, you're the

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Speaker 1: director of the Center for Emotional Intelligence. I say things

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Speaker 1: to myself that remind me of my best self.

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Speaker 2: And what you're doing there.

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Speaker 4: So I've interviewed Ethan Cross from University of Michigan who's

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Speaker 4: all about this psychological distancing, creating distance between yourself and

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Speaker 4: the emotion. His PhD supervisor was Walter Michelle, the Marshmallow

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Speaker 4: experiment guy, all about emotional and self regulation. And what

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Speaker 4: you've just done is you've talked to yourself in the

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Speaker 4: third person. You're not saying come on, you can do this,

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Speaker 4: you're actually creating distance by saying Mark, you are the

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Speaker 4: director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence.

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Speaker 2: You know how to do this.

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Speaker 4: You've created You've created that distance, and I love that.

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Speaker 4: Just a simple positive self talk where it's almost someone

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Speaker 4: else talking to you to remind you.

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Speaker 1: It's empathy. If you're giving you busially, you're sending yourself

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Speaker 1: some empathy. The other piece, the framing piece, or the

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Speaker 1: reappraisal piece, is this is you know, worked by James Gross,

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Speaker 1: another guru in emotion regulation. Is just trying to see

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Speaker 1: it from a different perspective. Yes, So for example, like

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Speaker 1: my mother in law is here from Panama. She's been

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Speaker 1: here for six months. She misses her home desperately. She

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Speaker 1: has a dog, a cat, dirt, I don't know what else.

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Speaker 1: She's gone her house, and she's like, does she speak Spanish?

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Speaker 1: She doesn't speak English, so she's like trapped. You know,

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Speaker 1: I speak Spanish, but I get tired of speaking Spanish

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Speaker 1: by like dinner time, and so like my brain is like,

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Speaker 1: I can't do Spanish tonight. And then we get into

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Speaker 1: arguments because she feels she doesn't feel included. And so

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Speaker 1: my point here is that I'm like, all right, Mark,

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Speaker 1: just take a moment and think about what it feels

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Speaker 1: like to be your mother in law right now.

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Speaker 4: This is just this is a beautiful, a beautiful example

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Speaker 4: of empathy and compassion totally.

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Speaker 1: And that's like my goodness. Like I'm working all day,

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Speaker 1: I'm busy, I have a full career, and she's sitting here,

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Speaker 1: you know, trapped in our house, not speaking the language,

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Speaker 1: not having friends, not wanting to go outside because of

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Speaker 1: you know, fears of getting the virus. Like maybe you

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Speaker 1: need to take her out for dinner, or maybe you

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Speaker 1: need to like really give her some treats, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you need to talk to her more in a more

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Speaker 1: kind way, or find give her her options. And and

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Speaker 1: so I actually was doing that last week. I'm thinking, art,

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Speaker 1: what can I do for her? Like I went and

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Speaker 1: took her shopping, and I'm like, all right, let's let's

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Speaker 1: be creative with dinners. And so just trying to reappraise

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Speaker 1: my relationship and so parents, for example, like my father

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Speaker 1: with me when I was yelling and screaming and crying

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Speaker 1: because I hated school and I was in correct and

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Speaker 1: I failed my yell a belt test, Like instead of

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Speaker 1: saying son, marched back in there, you know, or tough enough.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my father could have said something like, you know, wow,

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Speaker 1: my son is really struggling right now. Let me remind

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Speaker 1: him how like Rady is as a writer, or how really,

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Speaker 1: you know, how fabulous he is as a brother. And

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe I should not be so selfish and spend

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Speaker 1: a half hour with my kid on the weekends, like

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Speaker 1: practicing the punches that he just felled. Look at that.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole different level of engagement, you know, with

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Speaker 1: your child that not only validates their feelings, but helps

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Speaker 1: them to grow and helps you build a positive relationship

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Speaker 1: with them.

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Speaker 3: We're talking to emotion scientist Mark Brackett on today's Happy

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Speaker 3: Families podcast. We'll continue our conversation with him in just

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Speaker 3: a minute. For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership,

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Speaker 3: because a happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 4: On today's Happy Families podcast, we're talking with Yale University

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Speaker 4: emotion scientist Mark Brackett about regulating our emotions and not

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Speaker 4: being so triggered as parents. So Mark, just to sum

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Speaker 4: up our discussion so far, if we want to emotionally

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Speaker 4: regulate as parents whose children can sometimes frustrate us, what

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Speaker 4: I obviously need to.

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Speaker 2: Do is look after myself.

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Speaker 4: So I've got to make sure I'm not too tired,

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Speaker 4: not too stressed, make sure that I'm eating well, exercising,

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Speaker 4: making sure that my life is in balance, which I

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Speaker 4: mean it's also easy, no small feet, right. But secondly,

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Speaker 4: there's these strategies where essentially I want to remind myself

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Speaker 4: to be my best self. And when I'm starting to

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Speaker 4: find myself being triggered because the children are driving me

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Speaker 4: crazy and I'm allowing them to get the better of

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Speaker 4: my emotions, I need to remind myself create that distance

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Speaker 4: and then have some empathy for what it must be

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Speaker 4: like for them.

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Speaker 1: I think you just did a great summary, fantastic, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great If you can master that,

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Speaker 1: my hunch is that you're going to have better health,

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Speaker 1: You're going to have better well being, better relationship, make

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Speaker 1: better decisions. I think from our research, we know that

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Speaker 1: people with more developed skills in this area of emotion regulation,

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Speaker 1: just their lives are just better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they do better at school, they do better in

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Speaker 4: their relationships, they achieve more, they feel more contented in

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Speaker 4: their lives.

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Speaker 1: Fact better at work. You know, they have, you know,

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Speaker 1: richer conversations with their loved ones everything.

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Speaker 2: Mark, can I ask you a real life question?

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Speaker 1: Well, I thought we only have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: time to talk.

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Speaker 3: Now. I know that you've got dogs and you don't

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Speaker 3: have children, but I know that you're also an uncle,

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Speaker 3: and so you've got a couple of nieces and nephews

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Speaker 3: that you are interacting with regularly. So can you tell

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Speaker 3: me what has been one of the more trickier moments.

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Speaker 1: I think it's feedback from my brothers and sisters about

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Speaker 1: their parenting. Because you're, as the outside observer who's not

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Speaker 1: a parent, right, it's very hard to get parenting advice,

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Speaker 1: and so I try not to give advice like that.

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Speaker 1: I try to say, well, with the research shows, this

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Speaker 1: is not Mark's opinion. This is what the science shows.

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Speaker 2: Not always well received, that's fine. I care what the science.

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Speaker 2: This is what happens in my house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, truthfully, they both come to me regularly, Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: talk through problems. You know, they're both in high school. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know my three nieces and nephews are and they're struggling,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're they're struggling with their feelings. I

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Speaker 1: have one niece who's adopted, and you know right now,

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Speaker 1: she's from Peru, from Guatemala, and we've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of racism here in the United States right now, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of injustices, and she's self conscious about the

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Speaker 1: skin color, you know, her skin color. And we've had

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Speaker 1: some really heart to heart conversations that I think are

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Speaker 1: just so important to.

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Speaker 2: Have, so good that you get to be the uncle Marvin.

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Speaker 1: And I'm trying to live up to what my uncle

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Speaker 1: did for me as an uncle.

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Speaker 3: What do you want to instill in your nieces and nephews.

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Speaker 1: My prayer and I will work at this is that

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Speaker 1: they are passionate about whatever they want to do in

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Speaker 1: their lives. I think that a life without passion is

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Speaker 1: a life that's filled with struggles and challenges. So I'm

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Speaker 1: just try to push gently and kindly for them to

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Speaker 1: find their passion, not their I think they're too young

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Speaker 1: to have purpose, but I think that they've got to

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Speaker 1: find things that they're passionate about. In so much of

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Speaker 1: my research with adolescence shows that they're tired, they're bored

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Speaker 1: in school, and it just breaks my heart that they

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Speaker 1: don't have passion.

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Speaker 2: Thanks again, Mark for giving us a little bit more

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Speaker 2: of your time.

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Speaker 4: If people want to get more information about you, where

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Speaker 4: should they go?

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Speaker 1: I think just my website is the easiest because it

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Speaker 1: has links to everything I do, from the center to

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Speaker 1: our apps to our tools. It's just Mark with a

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Speaker 1: C and were A C bracket B R A C

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Speaker 1: K E T T dot com.

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Speaker 3: It's been great to chat with Mark Brackett again. We've

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Speaker 3: had him on a few times now and every time

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Speaker 3: I take away some gems. Just towards the end, Mark

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Speaker 3: mentioned his uncle Marvin, who was a huge influence in

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Speaker 3: his life. If you want to hear about the impact

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Speaker 3: of uncle Marvin, you might want to go back to

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Speaker 3: one of our first chats we had with him earlier

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Speaker 3: this month, episode one fifty five for five or remember correctly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was right. We hope you've enjoyed the podcast too.

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Speaker 4: By the way, if you enjoy the podcast, we've be

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Speaker 4: so grateful if you visit Apple Podcasts and leave a

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Speaker 4: rating and review. It's the reviews that help people to

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Speaker 4: find the podcast and have happier families. The Happy Families

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Speaker 4: podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media. Thanks

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Speaker 4: for making this sound great, Justin. I love saying rulan

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Speaker 4: and trying to make it sound like I'm French. Justin

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Speaker 4: Rulan from Bridge Media. Our executive producer is Craig Bruce.

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Speaker 4: If you'd like more information about how we can help

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Speaker 4: your family to flourish, especially.

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Speaker 2: If you would like to join up with our Happy

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Speaker 4: Families memberships and get ongoing monthly support, you can find

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Speaker 4: all the info at Happy families dot com dot au