1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the 3 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's Friday, the twenty fifth of April. I'm 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: Lucy Tassel. 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: I'm Zara Seidler. 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Last week, the US Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior, 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: announced an investigation into what he called the autism epidemic 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: and called the condition a preventable disease. Kennedy's interest in 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: the causes of autism is long standing, but he's never 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: had a platform as large as leading the US Health 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Department before. In today's podcast, we'll explain Kennedy's history with autism, 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: the new investigation, and what it might mean for autistic Americans. 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: Lucy, before we dive into this story, because there's a 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: lot there and I want to unpack it all. But 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: I do think that a good starting point is by 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: actually just explaining autism, because that is at the center 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: of this story. What is autism and how does it manifest? 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: So you've probably heard the phrase on the spectrum, possibly 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: in the context of the show Love on the Spectrum. 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: That's referring to the autism spectrum. So autism is a 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: neurological condition. It can manifest in a number of different 22 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: ways and to different degrees, which is why we talk 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: about it as being a spectrum. It's diagnosed through developmental 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: assessments and behavioral observations, and it's often characterized by differences 25 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: in communication styles and issues with sensory processing. In terms 26 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: of autism in Australia, where we are, according to the 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: Bureau of Statistics, autistic Australians are nearly six times more 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: likely to be unemployed than Australians without a disability, and 29 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: the majority of young autistic Australians experience difficulty in school settings, and. 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: So that paints a picture as to how autism manifests. 31 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: But do we understand what causes autism? 32 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: Well, we know as much about the causes of autism 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: as we do about the causes of any other kind 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: of neurological condition, which is to say, not much. But 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: we think it could be a range of things. It 36 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: could be genetic, it could be something to do with 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: brain development. I think what it's important to say is 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: that we don't know as clearly as we do for example, 39 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: that if you smoke cigarettes your risk of cancer increases. 40 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: We don't have that same cause and effect for neurological conditions, 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: including autism. However, in the late nineteen nineties, there was 42 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: a man named Andrew Wakefield who published a medical study 43 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: which he said suggested that a routine childhood vaccine, specifically 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: the MMR vaccine, which is for measles, mumps, and rubella, 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: causes autism. His study involved twelve children, eight of whom 46 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: had been diagnosed with all autism within a month of 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: receiving this routine vaccine. 48 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: I do think it's important to say here that a 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: sample size of twelve is by no means comprehensive and 50 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: is not, you know, even just by journalistic standard, something 51 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: that we would necessarily report on me even today. What's 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: happened since that research was handed down. 53 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: Yes, this sample size was one of the many issues 54 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: with the study. I should note also, according to the 55 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: Children's Hospital of Philadelphia's Vaccine Education Center, the MMR vaccine 56 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: is administered around the time that children are most commonly 57 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: diagnosed with autism, meaning it was a case of two 58 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: things happening around the same time being wrongly considered as linked. 59 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: A useful example might be I get caught in the 60 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: rain one day and a couple of weeks later, I 61 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: get diagnosed with depression. It doesn't mean that because I 62 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: got caught in the rain and I got wet and 63 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: I didn't like it, that I became depressed, even though 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: I was sad on that day. It just means that 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: these two happened within a couple of weeks of each other, 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and that is what the scientific community now suggests was 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: the case with Wakefield's study. So Andrew Wakefield actually later 68 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: lost his medical license as a result of this study 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: and some of the research processes that he went through 70 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: to produce the study. It was found that he had 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: breached professional ethics and forced children to undergo unnecessary medical procedures. 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: The paper itself has been comprehensively debunked by many many scientists. 73 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: But there's a saying coined by American civil rights activist 74 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: Medga Evers, you can kill a man, but you can't 75 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: kill an idea. Wakefield's official medical career is dead, but 76 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: the idea that he put into the world is very 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: much alive. Someone else who's used that phrase is Robert F. 78 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: Kennedy's uncle John F. Kennedy, who was President of the 79 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: United States in the nineteen sixties. 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and we have done a whole podcast about JFK. 81 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: Anyone that listened to that knows that I'm ABS, but 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: we're going to put that aside for this episode because 83 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: we're not talking about JFK. We are talking about RFK Junior. 84 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: So Robert F. Kennedy talk to me about his ascension 85 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: to becoming the health secretary, because it's quite an unorthodox 86 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: path here, and I want to focus on his career 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: before we get to what he's now claiming. 88 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, Kennedy's uncle was US President. JFK was 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: assassinated in November nineteen sixty three. The Kennedy family as 90 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: a whole has been a huge part of US political life, 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: specifically with the Democratic Party for many decades. Kennedy's own father, 92 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: Robert F. Kennedy Senior, was Attorney General to his brother 93 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: and mounted his own presidential campaign before he was also 94 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: assassinated in nineteen sixty eight. As for RFK Junior, he 95 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: worked as an environmental lawyer for many years. He sued 96 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: several major companies for pollution in the early two thousands. 97 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, specifically, he has said he 98 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: was approached by a woman named Sarah Bridges, who said 99 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: her young son had become very ill and had been 100 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: diagnosed with autism after receiving a routine vaccination. Kennedy then 101 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: became convinced that mercury, which is a chemical element used 102 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: in vaccines for preservation, was endangering children. Now, I should 103 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: note mercury was once used in vaccines, or rather a 104 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: preservative derived from mercury. It was in the process of 105 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: being phased out when Kennedy kind of took up this crusade. 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: He published an article about the supposed connection in Rolling 107 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: Stone magazine, which was later several years later withdrawn because 108 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: it is not accurate. Following that, Kennedy chaired a nonprofit 109 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: organization called Children's Health Defense, which is an anti vaccine organization, 110 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: and he repeatedly said he believes a range of conditions 111 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: from food allergies to autism are tied to these routine, 112 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: standard childhood vaccinations. So that kind of explains his interest 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: in the world of health. 114 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: And so what happened between this interest specifically I cornered 115 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: the interest in say, the anti vax movement, to then 116 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: him becoming health secretary. What happened in between. 117 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: In early twenty twenty three, So just jumping ahead a 118 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: little bit, he launched a campaign for the US presidency. 119 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: He was running as a Democrat. Later that year, he 120 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: dropped out of the party and went independent. He then 121 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: suspended his campaign in August twenty twenty four, and he 122 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: endorsed Donald Trump, who, as we know, went on to 123 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: win election and become President of the United States for 124 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: the second time. And then after Trump's election, he appointed 125 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: Kennedy as the head of the Health Department, which means 126 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: he the Health Secretary. 127 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was an understanding that when RFK dropped 128 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: out that there was some agreement between him and Trump, 129 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: and so when he was announced as Health Secretary, I 130 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: don't know that there was a lot of surprise. I 131 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: think people really expected it. Yeah, But he's now been 132 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: in the role for a couple of months, and last 133 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: week he announced this new major investigation. What is it? 134 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: According to Kennedy, this investigation is going to be led 135 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: by one of the major US government health bodies, which 136 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: is the National Institutes of Health. It's going to be 137 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: focused on the quote root causes of autism, including, according 138 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: to Kennedy, environmental toxins. The National Institutes has also been 139 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: tasked with examining food additives, mold, pesticide, medicines, and ultrasounds 140 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: done during pregnancy. Kennedy said, they've been asked to quote, 141 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: come back with an answer for the American people very 142 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: quickly as to what he's saying is the cause of autism. Now, 143 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is this investigation was announced on 144 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: the heels of another US government research project, this one 145 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: conducted by another government body, the Centers for Disease Control 146 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: and Prevention aka the CDC. 147 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: Lots of people would be familiar from COVID with the CDC. 148 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: Yes, the CDC's study found one in thirty one eight 149 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: year olds in the US are autistic, which is up 150 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: from one in thirty six in twenty twenty. The results 151 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: came from data collected from sixteen different locations across the country. 152 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: I want to be clear, the report rejected the idea 153 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: that quote living in certain communities put children at greater 154 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: risk for developing autism, so effectively saying there are not 155 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: environmental factors. Instead, the CDC said the differences in diagnosis 156 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: rates across these sixteen different communities quote might be due 157 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: to differences in the availability of services for early detection 158 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: and evaluation. So a fairly simple ar Kennedy then announced 159 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: this new investigation right after having received this previous investigation, 160 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: which suggested that environmental factors like living in certain communities 161 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: don't impact autism. 162 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: So his investigation is into whether that is the case 163 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 2: or not. What's been the reaction to this announcement. 164 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,359 Speaker 1: The announcement sparked quite a bit of backlash from health experts, 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: from disability advocates, and from autism support organizations. In a 166 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: statement responding to the investigation, the US Autism Society rejected 167 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:43,479 Speaker 1: Kennedy's claims, labeling his language as quote both inaccurate and stigmatizing. 168 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: They called it harmful rhetoric and a harmful policy direction. 169 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: That quote reflects a troubling lack of understanding, empathy and respect. 170 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: Part of that backlash centered around not just the investigation, 171 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: but also around something that he said during. 172 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 3: His Autism destroys families. And these are kids who will 173 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 3: never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, i'll play baseball, 174 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on 175 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: a date. Many of them will than ever use a toilet. Unassessed. 176 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Now, as I said, autism is a spectrum, so that 177 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: is not something that can be applied to every autistic person, 178 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: and even though there are some people for whom that 179 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: does apply, advocates say these characteristics don't make them of 180 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: any less value as a person, nor does it quote 181 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: destroy their family necessarily. Later in the week, Kennedy announced 182 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: he wants a registry of all autistic Americans, which has 183 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: raised concerns around people's privacy as well about what has 184 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: historically happened when governments make a list of people based 185 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: on a single characteristic. So it will be very interesting 186 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: to see what the outcome of this investigation and what 187 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: other moves Kennedy makes during his time as Health Secretary 188 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: over the next couple of years. 189 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: Lucy, thank you so much for explaining that story, and 190 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: it's definitely one that we will be keeping a really 191 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 2: close eye on to see what happens with this investigation 192 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: and what the Trump administration plans to do with that. 193 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: And if you have any questions about this story, please 194 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: feel free to leave some comments in our Spotify and 195 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: we'll be sure to. 196 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 3: Get back to you. 197 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 198 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz 199 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of 200 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and 201 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to 202 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.