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Speaker 1: You know that the Full Council of the Northern Land

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Speaker 1: Council has agreed to update the access arrangements for recreational

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Speaker 1: fishes on waters overlying Aboriginal land from the start of

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Speaker 1: next year. The current arrangement cease on December thirty one

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Speaker 1: and will be replaced by a permit system. Joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line now to explain the changes is the

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Speaker 1: CEO of the Northern Land Council, Joe Martin Jard. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you. Joe.

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Speaker 2: It's good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. Joe. How exactly

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Speaker 1: will the new permit system work.

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Speaker 2: Katie, It'll be very straightforward. Before we got thousands of

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Speaker 2: fishes have registered on our website. It'll be a simple

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Speaker 2: process of going to NLC dot org dot au and

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Speaker 2: following the prompts.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, it's is the permit system like, is it

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Speaker 1: up and running on the website?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Or is there still a bit of work to get

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Speaker 1: done before it gets up.

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Speaker 2: It'll go live just before the first of January.

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Speaker 1: Now, what's the difference between the current system and what's

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Speaker 1: going to come into effect from next year.

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Speaker 2: The big difference is after fourteen years we'll be going

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Speaker 2: into a new era where your traditional owners will finally

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Speaker 2: be recognized after the Blue mut Bay High Court decision.

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Speaker 2: And the areas that will really be affected are the

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Speaker 2: very remote areas where it's already abadge or land and

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Speaker 2: most territorians know that you need to get a permit anyway,

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Speaker 2: and this is just an extension of that. So it's

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Speaker 2: not a radical change. We've still got the long term

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Speaker 2: access areas that territory negotiated with the Northern Land Council

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Speaker 2: years ago, and that's still got some time to run.

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Speaker 2: There's still the of the areas like Darwin Harbor and

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Speaker 2: by No Harbor and so on, so that's all. It'll

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Speaker 2: just bring a lot more certainty, Katie.

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Speaker 1: And so Joe when you talk about the you know

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Speaker 1: the new system, is there going to sort of be

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Speaker 1: a lot more information that is going to be needed

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Speaker 1: by the NLC in order to get a permit and

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Speaker 1: how long will those permits last.

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Speaker 2: What we're asking for it this stage is, you know,

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Speaker 2: just the normal things that people have always done when

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Speaker 2: they get permits to go on to Aboriginal land, and

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Speaker 2: that's their name, the purpose, the time, the location and

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Speaker 2: their intended length of stay and at this stage, you

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Speaker 2: may have only you know, you may have heard this

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Speaker 2: figure of two weeks, but that's just a guide and

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Speaker 2: and we're happy to come back to you if there's

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Speaker 2: any questions I can't answer today. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, so even though that intended length of stay

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Speaker 1: or there had sort of been reporting that it could

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Speaker 1: just be a two week period, that's not the limit

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of it.

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Speaker 2: No, certainly that's not setting concrete at all. And with

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Speaker 2: the land based permits too, people can always extend, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's no problem at all doing that.

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Speaker 1: And so Joe, would people like, if you are, say

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Speaker 1: in a remote community, would you need a land based

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Speaker 1: permit and a water based permit?

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Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I don't think you would

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Speaker 2: need both. But say if you're living at a place

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Speaker 2: like Maningrida, if you want to go fishing nearby, in

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Speaker 2: that case, I think you will need a permit to

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Speaker 2: be fishing.

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Speaker 1: All right. So it does sound as though some of

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Speaker 1: those details are still being worked through at the moment

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Speaker 1: by the NLC with the traditional owners.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Katie. We'll be going back to your

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Speaker 2: toos to get instructions from them and how they want

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Speaker 2: to see things happening on their country.

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Speaker 1: Joe, what are the arrangements for access to there's those

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Speaker 1: fishing spots like the Finners and the Mini Mini.

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Speaker 2: We're in deep talks actually with the territory government. We

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Speaker 2: really want to get them at the table and staying

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Speaker 2: at the table. We want to be able to take

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Speaker 2: a fair offer back to traditional owners from the territory government.

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Speaker 2: Because we're not quite there yet, but we will always

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Speaker 2: keep talking to them. We really want to get some

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Speaker 2: agreements struck with the territory government to give certain ty

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Speaker 2: to traditional owners, to fishers and all the other stakeholders

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Speaker 2: who have an interest in this.

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Speaker 1: What are the sticking points from the nlc's perspective and

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Speaker 1: the t perspective when it comes to those negotiations with

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government. What are the sticking points and

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Speaker 1: why do you feel at this point that you know

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Speaker 1: that they're sort of you know, not not at the

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Speaker 1: table or they're not staying at the table.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the sticking point. I'm just going to be careful

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Speaker 2: what I say because we're still in talks with them.

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Speaker 2: But when we took you can offer recently to traditional owners,

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Speaker 2: it was a bit lowball, meaning it was a bit

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Speaker 2: low in comparison to other agreements, and you know, traditional

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Speaker 2: owners didn't think it was right and so we've come

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Speaker 2: back to the territory government. But to their credit, they're

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Speaker 2: listening to us, and so we'll think we'll come up

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Speaker 2: with an agreement pretty.

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Speaker 1: Soon, Joe. When it comes to the permits and what's

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Speaker 1: going to begin on the first of January. At this

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Speaker 1: point in time, no cost involved with those permits as

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Speaker 1: I UNDERSTAN standard. But could there potentially be down the track.

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Speaker 2: It's really early days and I would be loath to

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Speaker 2: speculate at this point about fees. It's some way off.

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Speaker 2: And it's one of those things too where we've got

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Speaker 2: to go back to traditional owners and to see what

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Speaker 2: they think. And we think it'll be on a case

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Speaker 2: by case basis, because some tos would say yeah, it

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Speaker 2: take others will want to talk about fees. I really

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Speaker 2: can't predict what will happen actually.

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Speaker 1: And then with regard I guess to creating ranger activities

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Speaker 1: and generating economic benefits as well for traditional owners. Is

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Speaker 1: that sort of where potentially that view to introduce a

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Speaker 1: cost for permits in some locations might come into play.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good thought that you and I have

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Speaker 2: discussed before and did something that we need to talk

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Speaker 2: to too groups because we're thinking about fishes who end

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Speaker 2: up in very remote areas sometimes some health and safety aspects.

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Speaker 2: We've had people die on country this year where some

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Speaker 2: men went on to a place where they shouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been actually and you know, sadly one of them perished

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Speaker 2: in the other one's hospitalized. But if we had had

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Speaker 2: a good permit system in place those you know, maybe

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Speaker 2: that could have been avoided.

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Speaker 1: Now, just in relation I guess to you know, some

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Speaker 1: of the logistics of it. I know that we've been

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Speaker 1: contacted by a few people wondering, like, if you're doing

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Speaker 1: a longer fishing trip going through various aboriginal controlled areas,

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Speaker 1: will you need several permits.

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Speaker 2: If it's going into Bluemont Bay, sorry, if it's going

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Speaker 2: towards affected by the Bluemouth Bay decisions safety going it

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Speaker 2: around the arum Land coast, and that takes in quite

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Speaker 2: a few different bits of sea country owned by different

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Speaker 2: traditional owner groups. We would have to consult with each

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Speaker 2: of those groups to get their permission to issue permits.

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Speaker 2: But look, it's been done before. We've got passenger ships,

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Speaker 2: the small ones that go around the coast, and they

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Speaker 2: do these long range planning and we work with them.

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Speaker 2: So it's not unusual to get those sorts of multi permits,

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Speaker 2: if you like, and it's something that we're good to do.

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Speaker 1: Now, Jo another question, I guess that's more sort of

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Speaker 1: a logistical one. Who's going to enforce the permit system?

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Speaker 1: Like will there be will there be rangers out on

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Speaker 1: the waters or will it sort of be an honor

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Speaker 1: an you know, an honorary system. I guess where you

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Speaker 1: are expecting that people do the right thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're fairly confident people will do the right thing

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Speaker 2: because we've already had thousands of fishes who have registered,

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Speaker 2: so you know people are wanting to do the right thing.

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Speaker 2: But you know what it's like, Katie, You've been out

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Speaker 2: on an arm land yourself. You know, you think it's remote,

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Speaker 2: but there's always countrymen somewhere, and you know they bring

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Speaker 2: uts and say who are these people? You know, we

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Speaker 2: don't know what they're doing in our country. And then

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Speaker 2: we'll certainly work with the Northern Territory Police, who are excellent,

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Speaker 2: plus the water police. We've got a very close relationship

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Speaker 2: with them, and then of course there's the range of

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Speaker 2: groups who are really good eyes and ears bush and

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Speaker 2: we'll be taking compliance very seriously. But I think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the fishes are a fairly good community, and

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Speaker 2: you know, we've been overwhelmed with the level of interest

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Speaker 2: at our website, so I think it'll be a positive transition.

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Speaker 1: And Joe just briefly as well, in terms of commercial fishing,

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Speaker 1: is that something like has that been taken into account

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Speaker 1: as well with the new system that comes into place

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Speaker 1: from January.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a very good relationship with the CP Council.

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Speaker 2: They're the peak body for the commercial operators and we're

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Speaker 2: in constant talks with them also the fish and tour

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Speaker 2: operators and other commercial folks. They're very professional and you know,

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Speaker 2: they know what's needed and they've been in touch with

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Speaker 2: us now for months, you know, to get ready for

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Speaker 2: the transition at one January.

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Speaker 1: Joe, a quick question from a listener, how long does

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Speaker 1: it take to get a permit approved? Alex is wondering.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking it's like the system is automated at this

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Speaker 2: point and it's very quick. Sorry, I can't give you

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Speaker 2: were there was days, weeks, no time, but understand it's

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Speaker 2: very quick.

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Speaker 1: What is your message this morning for you know, for

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Speaker 1: those out there listening, because I know that you know

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Speaker 1: that over the years, I guess this has been I

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Speaker 1: don't know whether contentious is the right word, but it's

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Speaker 1: sort of There's so many interests and so many people

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Speaker 1: really interested in being able to get out on the water.

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Speaker 1: There's so many wreck fishes that obviously want to be

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Speaker 1: able to get out on the water in the different

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Speaker 1: locations where they've always fished. And then you've got you know,

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Speaker 1: the needs of the and the desires of traditional owners

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Speaker 1: and the Northern Land Council trying to sort of negotiate

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Speaker 1: all of this. What is your message for Territorians this morning.

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Speaker 2: Look, we've got fifty years of doing deals on country

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Speaker 2: and now it'll be sea country, and we see that

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Speaker 2: we're all in this together in a Ural Territori. It's

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, and yeah, we just

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Speaker 2: want to see everyone's rights respected, but also fishes to

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Speaker 2: go out and take their families out for the day

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Speaker 2: or the week or the fortnight, whatever it is, and

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Speaker 2: you know, just go and do some fishing out there

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Speaker 2: in the Great Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, Joe Martin JARHD, the CEO of the NLC, I

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Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to have a chat to me and my

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Speaker 1: listeners this morning.

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Speaker 2: You're very welcome. Caiding no problem.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,