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Speaker 1: Get a I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,

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Speaker 1: and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure

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Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 1: Hello on the pod. Today we have doctor Rebecca Ray.

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Speaker 1: I want to call her Beck because immediately we felt

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Speaker 1: like well, I felt hike, I'd made a friend. Beck

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Speaker 1: is a pilot turned clinical psychologist with twenty years experience.

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Speaker 1: We got to sit down and chat because she's just

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Speaker 1: bought her sixth book out, Difficult People. It's a great book.

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Speaker 1: I actually reviewed it on the Friday EP that's just

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Speaker 1: come out. Highly recommend it, and I'm already like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to read setting Boundaries and more of

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Speaker 1: her incredible creations. But the thing that I love most

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Speaker 1: about Beck is she's very personable, and she's very honest,

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Speaker 1: and she will share her own stories and flaws and

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Speaker 1: just her own journey all in a bid to help

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Speaker 1: you and me and us the reader the listener. So

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Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat, Beck, You're wonderful. Can't

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Speaker 1: wait till we cross paths again. And to you the listener,

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Speaker 1: soak it up right. I welcome to the podcast, doctor

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Speaker 1: Rebecca ray mate. I feel like we have been emailing.

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Speaker 1: I want to say nearly six months. It's been a

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Speaker 1: few months. Yeah, absolutely, And you were so good. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I really want to record in real life.

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Speaker 1: I just love being in somebody's energy. And you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: no props, So here we are. Okay, so pilot turned psychologists,

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Speaker 1: twenty years under your belt there. I'm really I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, excited to talk about this, but interested to

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Speaker 1: hear about like the burnout that stopped the clinical practice

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Speaker 1: and kind of like and then speaker, best selling author

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Speaker 1: and in front of me, I believe I have book

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Speaker 1: number six.

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Speaker 2: You do? That is book number six.

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Speaker 1: So you're and speaker as well. And we've seen you

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Speaker 1: on tally a lot this year, like have I hit everything?

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Speaker 1: I think? So? No pressure mum and Bena Bennett. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you love Irish setters. Do you have two Irish Well?

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Speaker 2: I did have two.

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Speaker 3: Jackie passed away a couple of weeks ago, but I

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Speaker 3: still have one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I am a vet's daughter. So to me, animals

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Speaker 1: are unconditional love. They're the best, the best. So I

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Speaker 1: have to ask pilot to clinical psychologists, can you talk

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Speaker 1: to me about like that pivot part? Yeah, that part

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Speaker 1: of your life. Oh, that's change it was. It is

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Speaker 1: a bit random.

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Speaker 3: I started studying psychology straight out of school, and I

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Speaker 3: tend to be a bit of a planner. I tend

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Speaker 3: to follow through and do what I say I'm going

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Speaker 3: to do. And I was just incredibly anxious as an

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Speaker 3: eighteen year old in first year UNI. I felt like

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Speaker 3: I needed to perhaps do something to prove myself. And

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Speaker 3: my grandfather, Ronnie, was one of the great loves of

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Speaker 3: my life. He passed away in twenty fourteen, and he

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Speaker 3: said to me, if you can drive a car, you

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Speaker 3: can fly plane.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: He had a private pilot's license and his own little

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Speaker 3: aircraft that he used to take us flying in as

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Speaker 3: you do.

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Speaker 1: Like a legend. Yeah, straight out of the game.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, such a legend. And so I thought, well, maybe

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Speaker 3: if I learned to fly, I will not be anxious anymore.

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Speaker 3: I will my sense of self worth will be stable.

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Speaker 2: So I did.

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Speaker 1: I learned to fly amazing and you and Tom Gruse.

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Speaker 3: Me and Tom did not meet Tom at the time,

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Speaker 3: surprisingly maybe luckily because I'm not a scientologist, just for

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Speaker 3: listen listeners information. But I got my private pilot's license,

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Speaker 3: and I still felt so incredibly anxious, so incredibly anxious,

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Speaker 3: and so I thought, well, the way to deal with fear,

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Speaker 3: and you know this based on your book, is to

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Speaker 3: face the fear, right, so surely the answer is to

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Speaker 3: do more flying. And because I really don't know how

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Speaker 3: to chill at any point, I went on to get

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Speaker 3: a commercial pilot's license, and then a night flying rating,

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Speaker 3: and then I got a multi engine rating, and then

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Speaker 3: I want a scholarship from ANSET to do some more

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Speaker 3: flying training, and I got an instructor's rating, and at

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Speaker 3: that point I kind of made flying my whole personality

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Speaker 3: and decided that was going to be my career. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I had to ignorel that I wanted to vomit

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Speaker 3: on the drive to the airport, like there was just

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Speaker 3: no point that flying a small piece of tin through

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Speaker 3: the sky actually fitted the fact that I prefer writing essays.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm actually a super boring person and I

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Speaker 3: just like being at home working with no bra on

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Speaker 3: preferably no pants, right Like, I just like words and

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Speaker 3: being able to do similar things on a daily basis,

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Speaker 3: playing to my strengths. My strengths aren't maths and physics.

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Speaker 3: So even though I could do it, I never failed

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Speaker 3: a flight test, or I failed a couple of theory tests,

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Speaker 3: but I never failed a flight test. I really had

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Speaker 3: to acknowledge that it just wasn't working for me, and

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Speaker 3: so I felt like I failed so badly. I felt

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Speaker 3: so guilty because all this money had been invested in

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Speaker 3: my flying training. It was so expensive. And so I

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Speaker 3: went back to psychology and then went into I went

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Speaker 3: and got what's called a professional doctorate in clinical psychology,

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Speaker 3: and I started private practice. And I was in private

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Speaker 3: practice for about fifteen years. And as you know now,

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Speaker 3: I have no chill, and so I did a lot

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Speaker 3: of private practice.

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Speaker 1: Wait there some fifteen hour days.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so there was a time where and I

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Speaker 3: need to preface this because I would never recommend that

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Speaker 3: supervisors do this. But I didn't have anyone at home

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Speaker 3: except for my dog, and I used to take my

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Speaker 3: dog to work with me. So actually trained my dog

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Speaker 3: to come to work. He would sit in sessions and

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Speaker 3: at fifty minutes he would sit up on his bed,

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Speaker 3: so I didn't even have to It was a wine arounder,

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Speaker 3: so super smart. You exactly what the time was. I

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Speaker 3: didn't even have to look at the clock. I was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: we're done. But I think I was just again trying

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Speaker 3: to prove myself. And so I did all this work,

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Speaker 3: both so that I wouldn't let referras down so that

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't let patients down. I paid off a stack

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Speaker 3: of debsh at the time, and managed to burn myself

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Speaker 3: out at the ripe old age of thirty five.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: And so I was kind of faced with this, what

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Speaker 3: do I do with my life if I can't be

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Speaker 3: a psychologist anymore?

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Speaker 1: Holy Max. So at thirty five, you were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: there's something not right here, Like I've got to start practicing.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you were practicing what you preach, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time acknowledging that something's not right here, this

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Speaker 1: would feel like a failure. I imagine it was.

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Speaker 3: Like another massive failure. It was because I met my

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Speaker 3: wife when I.

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Speaker 2: Was thirty three.

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Speaker 3: No lessons, yes, and I didn't realize that it wasn't

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Speaker 3: really normal to go home to your partner and not

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Speaker 3: be able to talk like I would just I would

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Speaker 3: literally hold my hand up and say I'm not available

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Speaker 3: for talking.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then I was like, I'm not sure relationships are

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Speaker 3: supposed to be like this. I think she thinks that

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Speaker 3: I should talk to her, which is probably accurate, Like

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Speaker 3: it's probably what I should be able to do is

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Speaker 3: to give her something emotional leftover end of the day.

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Speaker 3: And so I really had to look at where my

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Speaker 3: values were and yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then book writing is no easy feat my friend. No,

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Speaker 1: it's right a beast. Yeah, it's and like there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of like there can be you can tie your

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Speaker 1: self worth up into it, there can be a lot

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Speaker 1: of there's a lot of phases to a book. I've

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Speaker 1: never had a baby, but I always say the gestation

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Speaker 1: of a book can feel similar to that because it's

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Speaker 1: quite a long process. You do you kind of like deal,

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Speaker 1: then you work on you you get your your advance,

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Speaker 1: you work on your manuscript and you know then you've

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Speaker 1: got to let go of it and bring editors on board.

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Speaker 1: And that can be really confronting as well. How do

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Speaker 1: you find the book writing process? I hate writing because

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Speaker 1: I'm lazy. My brain is super easy to say this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I just push up against the deadline as hard

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Speaker 1: as I possibly can until I almost have a mental breakdown.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm like, if I didn't start writing now,

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Speaker 1: someone's going to be actually very angry with me because

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Speaker 1: I signed a contract. If you were, apparently, because we've

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Speaker 1: got I was with ha Mac your publishers so long,

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Speaker 1: and apparently it's super common authors rarely deliver. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: always deliver on time. I always deliver on time. No, well,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you're very but you know I always

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Speaker 1: delivered like two months early. And they're like, you are

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Speaker 1: the only person I'm not that good. No, But I

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Speaker 1: think I was just so like I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: I had tied so much myself at that time my life,

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Speaker 1: I so much my self with and I was single,

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Speaker 1: Like I was like, this is my purpose ye for now?

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Speaker 1: So I hear on that like it's it is a

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Speaker 1: process that and it's easy to kind of put off like, oh, right,

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Speaker 1: tomorrow is my writing dayta day.

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Speaker 2: Look that's a next year Beck's problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not today, it's not today problem. And if

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Speaker 1: you do that too much, then it's really painful and

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Speaker 1: you have to spend a lot of time actually writing.

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Speaker 2: But I like the outcome.

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Speaker 3: I like I really like being forced to capture my

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Speaker 3: knowledge and wisdom and skills in one place because I

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Speaker 3: think therapy is a privilege. You know, it's an expensive privilege,

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Speaker 3: and it I feel heartened that there are so far

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Speaker 3: six pieces of my thoughts out there in book form

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Speaker 3: that people can go and buy for anywhere between fifteen

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Speaker 3: bucks and thirty bucks like that.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's a really great thing.

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Speaker 3: So while I complain about the process and bitch and

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Speaker 3: moan the entire time, I believe in the process and

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Speaker 3: the process feels meaningful to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think as well as you said that

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Speaker 1: end goal where you get there's something beautiful when they

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Speaker 1: send you at your advance copy and it's like.

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Speaker 2: I actually made this. Yeah, like this is a real

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Speaker 2: thing the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, mba, you know you're just like and I always

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Speaker 1: notice that feeling I get when the advance copy arrives

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Speaker 1: and I really sit with it and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this one feels like a real you know, and you

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Speaker 1: get these feelings about the book, and so I hear

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Speaker 1: and I love the idea I'm very I hope I'm

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Speaker 1: saying this word right, but quite kinesthetics. So I love

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Speaker 1: the idea of having something tactile, like you'll say, I've

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Speaker 1: highlighted in.

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Speaker 2: Your books well summed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I just I like. I like that

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Speaker 1: you've created something that people can take home and it

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Speaker 1: can sit beside the bed, or it can be in

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Speaker 1: the lounge room and or like this book. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember this, but this was sent to

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Speaker 1: me in La. So this went to three different houses

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Speaker 1: with me in La. I bought it back with me.

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Speaker 1: I read it on the plane, you know what I mean. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's been a nice little journey, this little baby. I

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Speaker 1: have to travel more than I have in the last

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Speaker 1: what six months? There you go, yeah, Los Angeles, mate,

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Speaker 1: that might be where it needs to go next.

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Speaker 2: Maybe just saying yeah, So I get.

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Speaker 1: I get this concept of like the goal, like and

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Speaker 1: being so clear on the goal, and how cool that

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Speaker 1: you get to create something that ultimately is there to

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Speaker 1: help people.

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Speaker 3: Oh, honestly, creating is a proof I as much as

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Speaker 3: I say I walked away from a psychology, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I never walked away from psychology because I love it too. Much,

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Speaker 3: but I was left with this task of how do

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Speaker 3: I cobble together a career if I'm no longer seeing patience?

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Speaker 3: And I happen to have landed in this life where

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Speaker 3: my job now is to create. I either talk about

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Speaker 3: what I've created or I'm creating the thing, and so

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Speaker 3: that feels like a huge privilege. But also, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 3: how is this actually my life?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Mate? I mean. And also the only reason I'm

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Speaker 1: asking is this because I've been in this scenario myself.

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Speaker 1: I at thirty one started training as an actor and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I've been noticed like a nutrition and wellness

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Speaker 1: all of my entire adult career, and I just kept training, training, training.

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Speaker 1: I've just turned thirty eight, like a month ago, and

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Speaker 1: like I see a therapist and we spend so much

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Speaker 1: work around. I'm like believing in that I am an

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Speaker 1: actor because I hit this like, oh, but you're over

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Speaker 1: thirty five, Like I've had other actors say to me

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Speaker 1: in an acting class, Oh, you're too old to make it.

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Speaker 1: Oh and to change. Oh yeah, actors can be made.

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Speaker 1: They can be wonderful, but they can also like there

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Speaker 1: are some goodies and.

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Speaker 2: Baddies, just like any industry.

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Speaker 1: My word is dingos for annoying people dingos. And I remember,

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Speaker 1: I actually vividly remember being this acting class and this

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Speaker 1: act we went to high school together, so exact same age,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, I got how are you

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Speaker 1: next week? My green car? I'm so excited and I'm

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Speaker 1: a super purpose driven person. All my values are tied

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Speaker 1: up in purpose. And I remember she just looked at

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Speaker 1: me and she's like, yeah, you're over thirty though, like

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Speaker 1: I've heard, you're probably not going to make it, like

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Speaker 1: you generally don't make it in America as an actor

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Speaker 1: over thirty. And I just I remember thinking I can't

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Speaker 1: afford to think like this, absolutely not, and I was

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Speaker 1: still hurt in the moment, and I was like, oh really,

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Speaker 1: Oh I haven't heard that one before, you know, and

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Speaker 1: just kind of like let it go. And I then

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Speaker 1: cut to interviewed an incredible Australian actor in La and

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Speaker 1: he said they are herd limitations that she will live

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Speaker 1: and they have nothing to do with your set of

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Speaker 1: the way that you live. And it's just so for me,

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Speaker 1: like the way you're saying, like how you went from

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Speaker 1: clinical practice in your thirties to then best selling author.

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Speaker 1: It's really empowering, but it's something that like I've come

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Speaker 1: up against a lot like changing and you didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: change careers, if anything, You've kind of like morphed your

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Speaker 1: I've changed the platforms.

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Speaker 2: It's no longer one on one.

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Speaker 3: It's now kind of putting work out to a m audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a much broader audience.

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Speaker 3: And I think I think we need to talk about

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Speaker 3: this in terms of the truth here because I still

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Speaker 3: Bennett has to have his chancels out in two weeks,

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Speaker 3: and I'm still in a place where I walked away

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Speaker 3: from a very comfortable six figure income multiple times over.

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Speaker 3: I walked away from it, and not willingly. It was

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Speaker 3: just like I physically can't do this anymore. So we're done.

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Speaker 3: And I am still in a place where my income

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Speaker 3: is what's called lumpy according to my bookkeeper, Rebecca, you

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Speaker 3: have lumpy income.

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Speaker 2: Can we do something about this?

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Speaker 1: Well? I'm trying, mate, I'm trying.

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Speaker 3: But I still wake up sometimes when we have issues

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Speaker 3: like one of my dogs is sick or my child

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Speaker 3: needs to have surgery, and I think, how am I

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Speaker 3: going to pay for this? It's I think the path

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Speaker 3: when you're living a creative life is sometimes broadcast on

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Speaker 3: platforms like TikTok and Instagram as if it's this amazing

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Speaker 3: kind of wow, like, yes, all these opportunities. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to go on TV next week and you're going to

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Speaker 3: go to LA and oh just look at us. Hey,

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Speaker 3: And yet, oh, my goodness, the price of fuel's gone up.

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Speaker 3: How am I going to afford the next take of fuel?

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Speaker 3: I think the reality it's really important that we stay

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Speaker 3: grounded with the reality because I don't think people tell

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Speaker 3: the truth about these parts. I would never not do this.

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Speaker 3: It's still the greatest privilege of my life, beyond being

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Speaker 3: a mother to my child and my dog. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I think we still get advertised in the Western world

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Speaker 3: this dream that only certain people can go and do

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Speaker 3: these things. No, that's not true. You can do these

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Speaker 3: things at any age, at any time. But also there

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Speaker 3: are parts of it that are hard. That's the truth.

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Speaker 1: And I love that your book keeper describes your income

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Speaker 1: as lumpy and to the listener, Like anybody in a

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Speaker 1: creative path with especially in book world as well, you

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Speaker 1: get your advance and then you don't see a scent

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Speaker 1: essentially until you deliver manuscript, which could be a three

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Speaker 1: month window sometimes more yep, and then again you don't

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Speaker 1: see anything until it's on shelf, and then residuals coming

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Speaker 1: year what feels like a year later, right, and you

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Speaker 1: get paid twice a year, And so I think it's

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Speaker 1: really it's so true. And like, you know, Matt and

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Speaker 1: I just went through mortgage stuff and we are both

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Speaker 1: being creative, both having lumpy incomes, Like it was really

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Speaker 1: hard to get a lender to find somebody that was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we believe you've got the right I guess security is

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Speaker 1: the right kind of way, and so I get it.

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Speaker 1: But then I also a part of me loves the lumpiness.

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Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a really strange thing to say,

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Speaker 1: but it's like it's so exciting when it's like one

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Speaker 1: of my acting teachers says is stay curious, and it's

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Speaker 1: like this the curious. It's like, oh, well, what's next?

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Speaker 1: Then like, what's the next project? And you hear a

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Speaker 1: lot of creatives be like, you know, you always treat

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Speaker 1: the project you're working on. There might not be one

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Speaker 1: after it, so you've better run at it and just

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Speaker 1: enjoy it and give it your whole heart. And I

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Speaker 1: love that that comes with you know, versus like and

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Speaker 1: I've got a quote from you here, So I'm a

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Speaker 1: very nerdy person.

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Speaker 3: I love it holding notepad the entire time with copious

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Speaker 3: notes and post it notes.

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Speaker 1: Yet very very dirty, very dirty. But it's you talk

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Speaker 1: about like choosing safe instead of brave in the past,

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Speaker 1: and it's as I was reading, I was like, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: we've all done that because the thought of like, well,

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Speaker 1: what if I'm not as financially stable, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I got an opportunity to go on a reality show

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, that all really stuffed

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Speaker 1: me up as an actor, Like you want to be

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Speaker 1: taken seriously and you're turning something down straight away before

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Speaker 1: and it just you've got to trust something within yourself

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Speaker 1: that it's like aligned with values. But I think for

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Speaker 1: people listening, I think it's really easy to slip into

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Speaker 1: wall and I'm going to do this because it's safe.

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Speaker 1: It's like this society norm. It's like, what's it's.

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Speaker 3: Because scarcity is screaming at me and it could mean

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Speaker 3: a paycheck earlier than what I'm expecting the next one,

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Speaker 3: and I really I can't live without that, So we'll

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Speaker 3: just run at that because it's easy and it feels

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Speaker 3: certain Yeah, I think we're chasing certainty, is that what

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Speaker 3: it is?

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Speaker 2: And instead we.

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Speaker 3: Need to be able to embrace the courage to sit

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Speaker 3: in the discomfort of uncertainty for opportunities that are truly aligned.

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Speaker 1: I love that, do you know? In LA because it

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Speaker 1: cost of living is crazy. Yeah, And I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to like bleed Australian savings kind of cut to you

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Speaker 1: cut it in half essentially. And I took on a

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Speaker 1: minimum wage job just checking people in at a yoga studio.

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Speaker 1: But I couldn't have been happier because every single person

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Speaker 1: that I knew there was like, oh, well the Aussie

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Speaker 1: actor like and they I felt.

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Speaker 3: Seen the seen and labeled, like they're actually giving you

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Speaker 3: the Labelah, You've worked so hard to allow yourself to have.

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Speaker 1: It's so fascinating though, because then, and this is where

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about difficult people. Friend from Australia

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Speaker 1: came and visited and I said, oh, do you want

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Speaker 1: me to get you in free yo class? I work

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Speaker 1: at this studio. Yoka got him into the class and

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Speaker 1: he saw me checking people in this minimum wage job,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I've had a pretty successful career in Australia.

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Speaker 1: And I could see the shock on his face and

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Speaker 1: he goes, aren't you teaching? Because I can teach? Are

388
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Speaker 1: you teaching us? I said, no, I'm in the audition process.

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Speaker 1: It's a really full on, like a couple of months

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Speaker 1: long audition process in LA to become a yoga teacher.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, so what are you doing. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I cleaned toilets and I check people in and he

393
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Speaker 1: was I could just see like the it felt to

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Speaker 1: me like judgment which made my own stuff. And I

395
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Speaker 1: was like, oh no, but this is like this is

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Speaker 1: actually me honoring me being an actor, because it's me

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Speaker 1: going I'm going to survive here. I'm going to find

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Speaker 1: a way to like yoga is a really important part

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Speaker 1: of my movement. And so I'm like, how cool that

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Speaker 1: I get this this thing filled up that I need.

401
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Speaker 1: I don't need to pay for a membership and everybody

402
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: meet I'm like, I'm an actor and voice actor and

403
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Speaker 1: they're like cool, and it just it it energetically or

404
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: spiritually kind of like fills up this thing and I

405
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: can pay for my groceries at Trader Joe's and my

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00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: petrol like with the US dollars that they earn't yes,

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Speaker 1: yeah see. And this is what's fascinating. It's like having

408
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Speaker 1: and this is where coming back to that like safety

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Speaker 1: versus courage to be brave. It's like sitting in the discomfort,

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Speaker 1: like of potentially being judged of potentially like you know,

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Speaker 1: like being a best selling author a few years ago

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Speaker 1: in Australia and then being like, well, I'm working for

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Speaker 1: sixteen dollars fifteen an hour, yeah, and I'm cleaning up

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Speaker 1: peel toilets quite literally, yeah, you know, and just being

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00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: like but it was so funny. It did the opposite.

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Speaker 1: It almost kind of like, yeah, gave fire.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Is that that like courage to sit in, the courage

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Speaker 1: to have the bravery to sit in the uncertainty?

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Speaker 3: I think that's yes. But I also think that really

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Speaker 3: speaks to alignment. I think when you are on the

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Speaker 3: path and you are so aligned with your values, they're

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Speaker 3: a thing that you can withstand that you otherwise wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be able to withstand if you were out of alignment.

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Speaker 3: So let's say you had have said yes to that

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Speaker 3: reality show. Yeah, sure, you might have had a paycheck

427
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: that had come with that. Here that reality, it doesn't

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00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 3: pay rate, but still it might have been something. I

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00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: imagine that the process of selling your soul to do

430
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Speaker 3: that would have actually made what was asked of you

431
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 3: during that period so much harder to do, even though

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Speaker 3: technically it gives you exposure. So I think what you're

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Speaker 3: really speaking to is the power of when we stay

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Speaker 3: the path that's right for us, then what we're able

435
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: to do in terms of working towards our potential not

436
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 3: only feels so much more real and powerful, but it

437
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 3: actually feels almost like an easy version of hard.

438
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: You know.

439
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, Like it's easy for you to clean toilets

440
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 3: and to check people in for minimum wage because you're so.

441
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: On the path.

442
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it cool to brag it? Oh? Thank you

443
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: getting a little extra therapy session of society. Okay, So

444
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: I love this. I love this bit because this is

445
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: something that trips me up all the time. And I

446
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: think I've thread this on your website. I have lived

447
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: through the lens of fear and judgment, and I think

448
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 1: we all have done that.

449
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, including my own. Yes, I'm sometimes the worst judge

450
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: of myself.

451
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: Really is that when like that self, like in a

452
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: critic comes out. Is that kind of what it's like?

453
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah.

454
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 3: I just it's taken me a long time to work

455
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 3: out my relationship with my work, and I think I've

456
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: gotten it to a point now where I avoid the

457
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: judgment by not looking at my work. So I only

458
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: ever read my books in the editing period, and then

459
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 3: I never touched them again. So I just rely on

460
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: interviewers like yourself to ask me decent questions and to

461
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: remember enough of the book that I'll be able to

462
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 3: speak to it.

463
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 2: I never watch myself back on TV.

464
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: I never listen to a podcast ever that I've recorded.

465
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: Never because I, and this might sound weird, almost in

466
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 3: a spiritual sense, I consider myself simply just a conduit.

467
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: I'm just a vessel for the message, and for me

468
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: to stay in that place where I'm the vessel and

469
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: allow the message to come through in whatever way it's

470
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 3: going to, depending on who I'm with and what I'm

471
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 3: talking about, what time of day it is, whether I'm hungry,

472
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 3: all the things I need to not have anything sitting

473
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: in my head about my last performance or what I

474
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: wrote that I don't like. Because I can guarantee you

475
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: right now, if I open to any page in there,

476
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 3: I would go, who wrote that?

477
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 2: Because that's a piece of shit?

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, even you're speaking like an A lot of

479
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: actors cannot watch themselves back.

480
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: Well, I do that intentionally, and I do it with

481
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 3: some trepidation because I feel like I do have a

482
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 3: question around that, Like.

483
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: Should I be watching myself?

484
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: What happens if I do something on screen that I'm

485
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: super annoying at? Like I know, I violently talk with

486
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: my hands like I'm doing now, listeners can't see me,

487
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: and yet I cannot talk without using my hands. What

488
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: happens if that's so annoying to the viewer? I just

489
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 3: rely on the fact that Channel nine keep asking me

490
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 3: to come back, so it can't be that bad. But

491
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: if I potentially watch something or I read something, what

492
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: happens about the next time that I'm sitting down to

493
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 3: be the conduit for the message and I get so

494
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 3: caught up in my head that I can't deliver. So

495
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: I try to stay connected to the work. Yeah, without

496
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: being attached to the judgment of the work, whether that

497
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: comes from anyone else or myself.

498
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: Oh I love that.

499
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 3: I like the conduit, Like, yeah, I'm just the thing

500
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: that manages to create it. So that also means when

501
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 3: I sit down to write, or if I sit down

502
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 3: to do a podcast, whatever it is, I don't sit

503
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: down just as beck Ray. I sit down as this

504
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: vessel that has access to the other side. And that

505
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 3: means that could be my grandparents, it could be something

506
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: spiritual that allows me to access energy. I have this

507
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: capacity to be able to just manage energy with in

508
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 3: terms of people around me, so that I can listen

509
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: to my intuition and go I think that needs to

510
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 3: be said and follow that. So I think the work,

511
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: the creative work for me is my relationship with that

512
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: creative energy and being that vessel honoring that. Yeah, if

513
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: I got caught up in the outcome, like I don't

514
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: even know how many sales I've had of difficult people,

515
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: I don't ask.

516
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Oh, you should see me every Wednesday. Guys give me

517
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: the numbers.

518
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: Yes, so perhaps that's why you're a better business person

519
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: than I am. I possibly should ask that question more.

520
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 3: But difficult people's done. It's our in the world. There's

521
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: nothing I can control beyond that. I did my job,

522
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean?

523
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, my goodness, And I want to talk about

524
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: difficult people now. I have enjoyed. I'm going to get

525
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: you to sign this book after as well. I've really

526
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: enjoyed my journey on this and as somebody that therapy

527
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: is my non negotiable and fully understand that it is

528
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: a privilege. I will also say that when people say,

529
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: what's your talking about business? What is your secret to success?

530
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: I straight out of the gate say therapy and looking

531
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: after mental health. I love it because it's night and

532
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: day for me. I truly believe that it is. And

533
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: even Matt nine now both we're both thirty eight, and

534
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: sometimes we'll be like, gee, like you sometimes will meet

535
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: people You're like, oh, I just want to say that

536
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: the therapy the sweetest possible away because they'll get to

537
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: process that think so quickly, probably more than they realize

538
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: that it's defining every choice they're making, because we've been there, right,

539
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: And I just like that's I was so on a

540
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: to have you on this pod because I think that, yes,

541
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: therapy is an expensive thing, and you know, and same

542
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: with the lumpy financial things. I'm like, oh, here we

543
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: go this week, okay, PT and therapy this week right okay,

544
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: and we don't have a bambino. So but first of all,

545
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you for sharing this with

546
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: the world, because this is an affordable way of nourishing

547
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: and educating yourself in the realm of mental health. And

548
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: now I want to talk more about digital feed and

549
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: I have to say, the next thing I have to

550
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: read is Setting Boundaries.

551
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: Oh mate, yeah, Setting Boundaries. I think I've had the

552
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: most feedback around Setting Boundaries. I feel like it was

553
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: just something that needed to be dressed, and people gravitated

554
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: towards it strongly.

555
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: And I love how there are sections in this book

556
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: where you literally give script dialogue on how to set

557
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: a bound depending on the type of the personality.

558
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: It's because I got asked fifteen thousand times after I

559
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: wrote Setting Boundaries, I heard all, yes, every interview I did,

560
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: they would go.

561
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: So, how do you say it?

562
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: I know, and I'd be like, well, it depends. My

563
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: answer to everything is it depends.

564
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 3: It depends on who you are, who the person is,

565
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: what's your history together, you know, what's the roles that

566
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: you're playing in all those things. And so in a sense,

567
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: difficult People exists because Setting Boundaries exists, and people got

568
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: to the point.

569
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: Where they were like, I love Setting Boundaries. I feel

570
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: really empowered and I feel confident with my boundaries now,

571
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: but they're.

572
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: Just not working with this one person.

573
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, that's a whole other book,

574
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: because we all have that one person where you're like

575
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: you walk away and you're like, god, I should have

576
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: said no, and it's like your brain doesn't have time

577
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: to go. Thanks, I'm just going to sleep on that

578
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: and get back to you. It's like your brain just

579
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: something happens. And like reading this, I was like, that's

580
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: because this type of person, like you've got all these

581
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: different archetypes and you break it right down into and

582
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: even to be really honest with you, wh I'm reading

583
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: with something like, oh, golly, have I slipped into being

584
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: that difficult person for that another person in my life

585
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: without you know, almost realizing it. And that's where I

586
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about a few new terms

587
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: to meet. And again I'm someone that like does hypnotherapy, therapy,

588
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: psych I love it. I love it all.

589
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: But I was like, oh, you've written your own new

590
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: dictionary of terms.

591
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it was it was really beautiful. And I

592
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone's given you this feedback, but because

593
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: my boyfriend Matt who you have also met, is also

594
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: super pro talking about where we're at with our therapy

595
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: and all of that kind of thing. We talk a lot,

596
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: and as I was reading, he's like, talk to me,

597
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: what bid you up to? What's going on? But it

598
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: opened up conversation because like I'll be like, you know

599
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: that thing that happened last year with that friend. I

600
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I really think that they were probably

601
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: this archetype and he was like absolutely, And so it

602
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: kind of is empowering just to bring a sense of

603
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: a heart to something if they felt like there was

604
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: a jigsaw puzzle like out of place.

605
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what That's actually the greatest gift that

606
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: you would say that, because that's exactly what I wanted

607
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: difficult people to be. I wanted it to be. I

608
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: wanted it to provide a language around the people that

609
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: we don't have language for because we so often walk

610
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: away from them going I don't know what was wrong

611
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: with that interaction, but it just was wrong, Like it

612
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: just made me feel ick.

613
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

614
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: So I've given you a whole book of ick yeah,

615
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: in terms of to understand why why they're doing what

616
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: they're doing, why they did it with you potentially what

617
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: your contribution might have been if there's a cycle going

618
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: on between the two of you, and then what to

619
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: do to manage it.

620
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it, I love it, and

621
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: I love There was a specific case study I think

622
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: it was Angela and Linda your mother daughter relationship, and

623
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my goodness, this is I've been here,

624
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: like I've worked through this experience and like come out

625
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: the other side to have awesome friendship with my mum.

626
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: But it was really cool. I was like, oh, so

627
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: so many people are going to have that parent. Not

628
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: to give too much away, guys, just read, but even

629
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: the way that it was like, I was like, where's

630
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: the next update about Angela and Linda? Beautifully? And I

631
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: felt like that was like me reading it. I love

632
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: reading fiction too, so I felt like I was following

633
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: a little storyline. But there were some new terms me,

634
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,239
Speaker 1: So can I ask you a little bit about some

635
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: of them? Yeah, this sounds self explanatory, but I love

636
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: the concept of it. Mirror work is that literally looking

637
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: at yourself, not a physical mirror, that metaphorical mirror.

638
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe actors do that. Do you stand

639
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: in front of the mirror?

640
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: And that they never act in front of a mirror.

641
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: Right, yogurs yogis do that, Yeah, they do. Mirror is

642
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: really important.

643
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: Mirror work, in terms of how I used to do

644
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: in the book, is simply about self reflection. So it's

645
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: simply about the capacity to be able to sit and

646
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: reflect on your emotional, cognitive, and broader psychological experience. And

647
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: I think I used the term in combination of combination

648
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: with the term which is psychological mindedness. It's it's actually

649
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: the power to be able to think about your thinking,

650
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: to be able to think about your psychology, your psyche,

651
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: what's happening within you. Not everyone has that capacity. So

652
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: and you might know this if you've been in relationships

653
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: with people that are not like Matt, you know that

654
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: they're not that are not necessarily into reflecting on their

655
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: own experience and then sharing that. So yeah, in terms

656
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: of the book, it's simply just mirror work is reflecting

657
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: on your experience and how you can shape that experience.

658
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. I'm super I have to like

659
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: figure out my feelings, like I have to verbalize and

660
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: that's like just sit with them, Lola, Like just like

661
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: you don't need to have some logical explanation for feeling

662
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: flat today, Like you know what I'm like, I think

663
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: it's the rejection and it's like, no, shit is like

664
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: you've got Terry on Wednesday, You're fine, Like, let's it's

665
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: okay to feel flat. It is not. You're not meant

666
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: to feel that happy every single moment of every single day,

667
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: and you actually write that beautifully in the book. Okay,

668
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: next one, and how do I say this one? Is

669
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: it martyrdom?

670
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: Martyrdom?

671
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, being a martyr is essentially someone that just bitches

672
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: about takes responsibility for things it doesn't necessarily need to

673
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: be their responsibility, and then bitches about it. So martyrdom

674
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: is that kind of set of behavior traits where someone

675
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: will make themselves out to be over responsible and then

676
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 3: winge or blame everyone else for their lot in life

677
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 3: when actually they asked for that because they set themselves

678
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: up for being in that role.

679
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: That's a good well as in not a goodie, but

680
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: a goody, a good terminology that I've not yet.

681
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, a martyr is someone who you probably know them

682
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: because they're the ones who when you offer to help

683
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: them when they've sighed loudly or they've complained in a

684
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: passive aggressive way. They go, oh no, no, no, it's fine,

685
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: I'll do it all myself.

686
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, this one. I So one of my hallmarks

687
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: is I just love being honest. Like I it's important

688
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: for me. I just figure why waste energy on not

689
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: being real? Right? But when I saw this, I was

690
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: like weaponized honesty. I was like, shit, have I done this?

691
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: I've done it the.

692
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: Difficult people in the room.

693
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: I'm the problem, listeners, I'm absolutely the problem. Weaponized honesty

694
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: is when you're honest to a point where it hurts

695
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: someone else. And I'm not just talking about telling someone

696
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: the truth that they're not ready to hear, because.

697
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: That's not necessarily your problem.

698
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: I think.

699
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: We're in a woke society, and while I'm like heavily woke,

700
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: I still think that we have a responsibility as adults

701
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: to regulate our emotional worlds. And that means that sometimes

702
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: you need to harden up. Sometimes you need to have

703
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: some resilience about you, because the world is not designed

704
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: around us super annoying. I really wish that revolved around me.

705
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: Weaponized honesty is when someone actually uses the honesty intentionally

706
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: to harm or manipulate you.

707
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: And it's that line like I'm just being honest.

708
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: I'm just being honest.

709
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like you know, do you really live part time

710
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 3: in la thinking that you're gonna make it as an actor?

711
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 2: I'm just being honest.

712
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: I just like, yeah, I guess, like it's can I

713
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: be really hard to make it? Like why would you

714
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: even try? Yeah, I'm just being honest.

715
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, taking me back to.

716
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: That acting Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

717
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, big time. It's yeah, it's it's such an interesting term,

718
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: and I reckon it will be so easy to feel

719
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: like you're being not played. But after the fact of

720
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: say someone was doing exactly what you just did that

721
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: weaponizing the honesty. Initially, you might almost want to give

722
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: them power because they're all they're telling me the truth.

723
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: I need to take this.

724
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 3: And if I was a real adult and being a

725
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: big girl, then I would just take it on the

726
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 3: chin and yeah, let them get away with it. It's

727
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: like weaponize joking, which I also talk about in a

728
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: book where we do this a lot in Australian culture,

729
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: where we use humor to cope with events that are

730
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: hard emotionally. But sometimes that humor can go too far

731
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: and it can actually be harmful for someone. Yeah, and

732
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 3: so I'm not talking about not having a sense of humor.

733
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about not being truthful. I think those

734
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: things are really important. I think I'm a big fan

735
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: of humor. I spent most of my clinical career treating

736
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 3: police and military personnel, and so we spent a lot

737
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: of time talking about trauma in the most inappropriate of

738
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: ways because of the dark, black humor that they have,

739
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 3: and I think it can be very therapeutic at times.

740
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 3: But when it comes to honesty, I'm like you. I'm

741
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 3: also authentic and straight up and down, but there are

742
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: times where I can be too blunt in my delivery,

743
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: and I can also perhaps say something that I can

744
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: see without realizing that someone else is actually not ready

745
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: to see that same truth.

746
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my goodness. Okay, next, triangulation, I'm saying that right. Yeah.

747
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: Triangulation is where you basically put someone between you to

748
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: do your dirty work for you. So, for instance, I've

749
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: actually seen this happen with my mum. My mom loves

750
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: my wife like another daughter, but my wife has a

751
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: much softer, beautiful personality than me and my mom. If

752
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: she thinks she's got something to say that I won't

753
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 3: want to hear, or that I'll bite back out. She'll

754
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: go and tell my wife and get my wife to

755
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: tell me. That's triangulation. So essentially you're actually using you're

756
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 3: bringing someone in into your relationship with the person and

757
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 3: making a triangle rather than just dealing with it directly.

758
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: And the example you gave in the book about the chef, yes,

759
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: that was really retraumatized me. Thanks, yeah, sorry, no, but fascinating.

760
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: It's almost like.

761
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: It was awful.

762
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 3: I can't believe I was ever put in that position. Actually,

763
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: for listeners, what happened was I was an intern psychologist

764
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: at the time. I was working in a mental health

765
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: ward and at the time we had a very We

766
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: had a person on the ward who had a particular

767
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: diet that she required as part of her treatment, and

768
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 3: the chef of the hospital dragged me into it. It

769
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: was like a medication room on the hospital ward and

770
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: actually like yelled at me and told me that she

771
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 3: was hard work and this is not his job and

772
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah. And to tell the parents

773
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: that they were they wouldn't be providing it was just ridiculous. Anyway,

774
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: shouldn't have been done like that. I should never been

775
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: put in that position. He should have been dealt with.

776
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: But this is also what I mean. You sometimes don't

777
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: realize until you're in it and sitting there. I mean, like,

778
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: hang on, hang.

779
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 3: Oh god, I was twenty three, like I did not

780
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: have the balls that I have today. I were to say,

781
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: come on mate, this is completely inappropriate.

782
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh. And this is what also makes

783
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: me so excited to read setting batteries. I know this

784
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: interview is it's really about to go. But I love

785
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: how you say it is your responsibility to manage how

786
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: you respond yes, And I'm like, oh, how empowering is

787
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: that to hear yeah, to know that you have the balls,

788
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: the courage yeah, to go, oh, hang on, this doesn't

789
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: sit right or I need a bit of time and

790
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: space to manage this. You know. My last one on

791
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: the list of my new terms that I have learned

792
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: from you, Beck kitchen sinking.

793
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 2: Kitchen sinking. Kitchen sinking.

794
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: It's a term I actually learned when I was here

795
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: this Yeah, when I was I bet you are, we

796
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: all are when I was an intern, And it's essentially

797
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: a term that happens in arguments where rather than addressing

798
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: the point of contention today, you bring in everything but

799
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: the kitchen sink. So you're like, yeah, but you know

800
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: six months ago when you did that, or five years

801
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 3: ago when you did that.

802
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know my poor dad at Christmas time,

803
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: who I loved. He came up and I was like, well,

804
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: you didn't check in with me enough when I was

805
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: doing IVF and he's like, what, this is the first

806
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: time hearing of it. And he did totally in the

807
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: best way that he could. But because you're so heightened,

808
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: which we were just chatting about off Mike, you don't

809
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: have a real I think my reality of that time

810
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: was so like a pressure cooker or something. It was

811
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: not didn't feel like I was myself and poor dad

812
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: Christmas was just like what have I walked into? I

813
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: was kitchen sink him for sure.

814
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 3: And I mean there is a time for dealing with

815
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: issues that might have happened a long period of time ago,

816
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: like to set up that kind of discussion. But if

817
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: you're arguing about something else and you intentionally bring that

818
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 3: in to bolster your argument, like here's a few other

819
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: things I don't like that You've done it your entire

820
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: life then yeah.

821
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: Such a good terms, such a good term. And then

822
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: the way I like the way in the book that

823
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: you kind of like with difficult behaviors. It's preoccupied, avoidant,

824
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: and fearful. It's just and I've heard another person who

825
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: interviewed you say this, you make it so easy to

826
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: digest your language. I love that you don't as body

827
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: cud all the right word. I love that you don't

828
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: like sugar coat and make it. You're just like, here's

829
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, here's how it's going to feel,

830
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to present, this is what like,

831
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: and here's some cool ways to deal with it. And

832
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: it's just very it's a very functional, very functional book.

833
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 2: Oh I'm so glad.

834
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: I have a couple of walk but it's just a

835
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: really at time. But I loved I don't know where

836
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was a pod or something.

837
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: I have soaked up as much you content as I can.

838
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: Attached the change that you want to see. And the

839
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: example was like say like, ah, I really want to

840
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: exercise more, I really want to get to pilates whatever,

841
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: but I'd rather just sit and watch Netflix and chill.

842
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: And you said, we'll attach the change to your value.

843
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little.

844
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: Bit for me? Yep.

845
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 3: First of all, I need shell listeners that I'm really

846
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: not that cool because I once used next Netflix and

847
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: Chill in an online course that I sold, not realizing

848
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: but it doesn't actually mean watch Netflix and chill.

849
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: Leads to sexy time.

850
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: It leads to sexy.

851
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: Time, and I did not know that, and I used

852
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: it incorrectly, and I sold that course with that content

853
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 3: good times good times.

854
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: Like nowadays though you can it can literally.

855
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: Meet Okay, maybe it's gone back the other way, but

856
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: at the time that I was using was incorrectly. So lucky,

857
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 3: that's so.

858
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: Funny, so bad.

859
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: I have good editors, though listeners, so trust me for

860
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: when it comes to my books. When it comes to

861
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 3: attaching a change, any change that you want. If we're

862
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 3: talking about a change with Difficult People, I think the

863
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 3: piece of content that you might have come across was

864
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: perhaps in association with my last book before Difficult People,

865
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: which was Small Habits for a Big Life. Yes, and

866
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: I talked in that a lot about how when we're

867
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: making any kind of change, if you attach it simply

868
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 3: to an outcome, the risk is that your motivation is

869
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: going to be very fickle.

870
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: Now.

871
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: Motivation's fickle anyway, like any other emotion. It's we can't

872
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: predict when it will come, or how intense it will be,

873
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: or how long it will last. So if you attach

874
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 3: the change that you want to make, like to manage

875
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 3: this person more effectively, or set boundaries with them, to

876
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 3: who it is that you want to be in terms

877
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 3: of your values, then you can access your values all

878
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: the time, even when you're not feeling motivated. And that's

879
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: when discipline comes in. I'm more disciplined to live by

880
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: my values, even though it's harder right now, because I

881
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 3: know that my eighty year old self is relying on

882
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 3: me to make this decision right now, to set this

883
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: boundary with this difficult person or whatever it is that

884
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 3: you want to do, whatever change you're trying to make,

885
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 3: instead of just going well, look, I promised myself on

886
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: the first of January that I would walk three times

887
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 3: a week or I would do three yoga classes a week.

888
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 3: What does that actually mean? You know, unless it's connected

889
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 3: to a value. When life gets hard and everything else

890
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 3: threatens to get in the way of you're doing that thing,

891
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 3: the only thing that you really have access to consistently

892
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 3: is why does this matter?

893
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I love that. I Oh, mate,

894
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: There's so much I could talk to about it. Again,

895
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: not to make this about acting, but there are two

896
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: schools of thought with acting. I just love to get

897
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: your brain on it. So one is trauma work. So

898
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: you will go into that classroom. You will use substitutional method,

899
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: which is if you and I were doing a scene together, yeah,

900
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: I would be casting you as somebody that's called pain

901
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: to me in my life. Every time I've done it,

902
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this feels terrible.

903
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 3: Is this like Nicole Kidman and alex Alexander scars guard in?

904
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: Did they do that? Well?

905
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: He physically hurt her, He actually bruised her.

906
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

907
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: I remember reading an article that Keith Urman had commented

908
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: in saying it was so difficult because I have to

909
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: accept my wife's way of her method, of her art,

910
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: of expressing her art. And she was like, you just

911
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: have to deal mate. I'm going to come home bruised.

912
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: Because Matt and I have just finished that. It is

913
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: a fantastic and they're intense though, right, and it's a

914
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: dangerous relationship to watch. Yes, there is a toxicity obviously, yes,

915
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: total dB case so yes. So some actors are in

916
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: that school of thought of method and relying on past

917
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: trauma to evoke a feeling, right, And I was. I

918
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 1: remember I was in a class and a teacher tried

919
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: to get me to evoke a past feeling and I

920
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: just turned around her and I said, this feels like work.

921
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: And I have a therapist, so that's this isn't safe

922
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: for me to do here, yes, And I'm sitting in

923
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: the middle of the stage, all the actors in the

924
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: classes sitting there like but I was ten years old

925
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: of that, and I was like, I'm not going to

926
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: be someone's emotional that. And then a different teacher who

927
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: I love working with, who was like, this shouldn't cost

928
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: you psychologically. Acting is about honoring the writing. Yeap, clean beats,

929
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: clean actions, and a really clear objective. What do you

930
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: want in this scene? What do you want to get

931
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 1: out of the other person? And it's like that, and

932
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: you set a circumstances around that, what's happened right before

933
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: all of that? Your breath. These things are beautiful tools, yeah, practice,

934
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: but it doesn't you don't walk away being like, oh

935
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: my goodness, like I have just relived the worst thing

936
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: that ever happened to.

937
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: Me ye on screen for everyone else to watch, right, or.

938
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: If it's a play, you're doing it every night, yes,

939
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: weeks right. And I said to this teacher, the one

940
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: that is like, no, no, I don't think this should

941
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: cost you psychologically. I was like, yes, this is what

942
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: I want, sustainable acting. And he said, your emotions are

943
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: like unruly teenagers. So if you're going to drudge up

944
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: some terrible thing that happened to you in nineteen ninety

945
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: when you're thirteen years old, he said, it might work

946
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: and be brilliant one night. The chances that you're going

947
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: to get that exact same feeling and that exact same

948
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: emotional I guess, you know, like bubbling up in the scene.

949
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen time and time again because

950
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: you're relying on in your mote. He's like, you need to

951
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: find the same always act And I love it. And

952
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: I watched him coach an actor that had to go

953
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: from irate anger into balling in the space of like

954
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: a minute, and he goes, mate, just quicken your breath.

955
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: Your nervous system will start to do it for you.

956
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 1: Just quicking it, and it was the most beautiful thing

957
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: to watch because the actor went there. He didn't need

958
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: a dredge up anything from his past. He honored the writing,

959
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: he used these acting tools. And I think as well,

960
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: just I don't even know why this capital was the

961
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: way we're talking about how there's a fickleness as well,

962
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: And I think too if you're choosing to like act

963
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: as a and Heath Ledger was famously a method effort,

964
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: one of my favorite actors. But like I know, for me,

965
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: if I want a long term career, I actually want

966
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: a very sustainable practice. Yeah, because I love looking after

967
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: my mental health.

968
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

969
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: And as somebody that is a beautiful writer and clinical

970
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: psyche hearing those two styles of acting. This is just

971
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: purely for my own needs and wants what feels safest

972
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: or more sustainable.

973
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 3: I think for any creative I don't it is different.

974
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 3: But also I don't believe in the starving artist the

975
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: suffering artist rhetoric. So out there there's this almost like

976
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: martyrdom around if I'm going to be a real actor

977
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: or a real musician. There's so much of it in

978
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: the music industry as well. We're both in relationships with

979
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: musicians you get to the point where it's almost expected

980
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 3: that you will suffer greatly for your art, and that

981
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: the more you suffer for the art, then the better

982
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 3: the art is. I don't believe in that. I don't

983
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: think we need to slaughter ourselves in order to produce.

984
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: I don't think that adds any extra mesal to the

985
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 3: work that we produce. I don't also, not being an actor,

986
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 3: I don't want to completely denounce method acting or anything

987
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: like that, but I think for anyone that pursued that

988
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 3: you would want to make sure that you could do

989
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 3: so in a way that you can draw yourself back

990
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 3: out into your own reality, into our reality, and stabilize

991
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 3: yourself in a consistent way, because if you can't do that,

992
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: then you run the risk of los get actually ending

993
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: up in a place where you lose touch with reality

994
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 3: and you they do then become destabilized from it.

995
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: And then there goes that sustainable Like if you were like, great,

996
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: I want to be ready for the next job to

997
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: take on this beautiful and how long makes new character? Yeah?

998
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: How long is it going to take you to recover

999
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: from that? Right? It's so so fascinating. I'm really passionate

1000
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: about mental health and actors. I just think the combo

1001
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: of the two. I remember when I auditioned for a school,

1002
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: they said, look, we really want your not this is

1003
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: in't a psychological based practice, and I said, great, I

1004
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 1: have a therapist for that. I feel like that belongs

1005
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 1: here anyway, and I look after. But there are a

1006
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: lot of schools of thought where it's like the more pain,

1007
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: the better the result. And I'm just like, nah, I

1008
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: do think that pain can feed ut absolutely. I think

1009
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, everything that I say and do is based

1010
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: on largely lived experience.

1011
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: You know, I don't write what I.

1012
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 3: Don't know, and I would imagine that comes through in

1013
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 3: the characters that you choose and all that kind of stuff.

1014
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: But you need to be able to make those choices

1015
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 3: and those decisions in a way that's psychologically safe for you.

1016
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: I don't think it's about ignoring our pain. I think

1017
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 3: it's about being able to shepherd our pain. Wow, that

1018
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: was a real strong whistle. Let me say that again.

1019
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: I think this is about shepherding our pay our pain

1020
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 3: in such a way that it doesn't get away from us.

1021
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 3: You know, like you're you need to have your pain

1022
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 3: in hand to be able to then make art out

1023
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,959
Speaker 3: of it. Otherwise you're essentially just trauma dumping in the role.

1024
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 1: Oh mate, a book about actors and next to the listen,

1025
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: I have flipping love talking talking to you today, and

1026
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: I just this beautiful book Difficult People. It is fully

1027
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 1: available now everywhere whereever you love to buy books. I'm

1028
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: a bit of a book Topia junkie because I'll add

1029
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: extra things to my car. I love it, so I'll

1030
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: have the book Topia link and I'll have your website

1031
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: as well. In just to end on a note, if

1032
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: there's anybody that's listening and they're like, oh, I'm feeling

1033
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: a bit I love asking this to anyone nearly that

1034
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: comes on the pod, whether it's you don't need to

1035
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: just through however feels right my conduit friend. Yeah, if

1036
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: people are listening to this and just feeling stuck in

1037
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: some capacity, or they've got a dream and they're like, oh,

1038
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: that feels a little bit too scary and far away,

1039
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: or I should do the safe thing and not the fear,

1040
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: Like is there any little nugget?

1041
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is.

1042
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: The first is that you will be scared and the

1043
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 3: fear probably won't go away because I don't know many

1044
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 3: people that operate in the world following their dreams who

1045
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 3: are fearless. I actually don't think fearless is a thing

1046
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: unless you have a particular type of head injury or

1047
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: you're a psychopath. We're meant to have fear. But I

1048
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: want you to remember that, well, the scared parts are

1049
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: inside you, the brave parts are inside you as well,

1050
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: that they coexist. And I think it's really important to

1051
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 3: be able to meet your scared parts with your brave parts,

1052
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 3: to be able to say, yeah, the fears here, and also,

1053
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: I'm going to do the thing. None of us have

1054
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 3: this path worked out. You might be watching people out

1055
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: there and thinking, well, they're out doing it. I can

1056
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 3: probably guarantee that they're making it up as they go

1057
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 3: along as well. And so I think I just would

1058
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 3: really love listeners to not give away their choices about

1059
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 3: how live this life to someone who's not them. You know,

1060
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: those dream stealers, the ones that say, ah, you might

1061
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: not make it.

1062
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: Oh it's not really.

1063
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 3: A guaranteed income, is it, or whatever other projection they're

1064
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 3: going to have.

1065
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: I want you to keep the choice about.

1066
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: How you live this one life you've been given to

1067
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: you make sure that choice is still in your hands, so.

1068
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: I'd love to just keep you in my pocket. Actually sure,

1069
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: no worries, mate, Thank you so so much. Everybody listening,

1070
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: difficult people, get yourself a copy. I am off to

1071
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: buy Setting Boundaries straight after this. Thank you so much.

1072
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: It was total honored to have you on the pod

1073
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: back and I can't wait to see what's next for you.

1074
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1075
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: Ditto.

1076
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: I'm watching you as well, mate.

1077
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: We're a fan. We've got a fan in each other.

1078
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1079
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

1080
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

1081
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word

1082
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

1083
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rape and comment, and of

1084
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: course spread the love.