1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Charlestown University is defending its TAFE arm after at least 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: forty carpentry apprentices were found not fit for purpose. CDU 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: is understood to be reviewing the training and assessment records 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: for apprentices who studied a Certificate three in carpentry, with 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: issues understood to involve trust installation competencies. Now joining me 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: on the show is CDU's pro Vice Chancellor and chief 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: executive of the TAFE, Michael Hamilton. 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: Good morning, Michael, Oh, good morning Katie, and good morning listeners. 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show, Michael, what exactly 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: happened here? 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: Okay, So at the university in the Taife Arm, since 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 2: we've established Taste, we've we've progressively built in quite robust 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: internal processes to look at how we're going to benchmark 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: to make sure the quality is there, and we've over 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: that time we've progressively worked through our one hundred and 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: sixty qualifications five and a half thousand units of confidence 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: and then in December last year, we had a look 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 2: at carpentry as part of that internal validation processes and 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: there was a couple of things around the assessments that 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: just didn't quite look right. So we looked into it. 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: It led us to have a quick look at in 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: more depths, if you like, around the qualification as a whole. 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: And what we did is we found there was a 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: few elements, so not the whole qual and certainly not 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: every unit, but what we found were just a couple 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: of things that weren't quite right. And so what we 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: did is we've really owned that space and we've gone 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: in and we've established a plan on how we can 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: just pop it back up to where it needs to 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: be and using the principles of as little impact on 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: our students and small businesses as we possibly can. 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: So how many students has it impacted? Is it about forty? 33 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: So in the so we've got a cohort of forty apprentices. 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: So these are still apprentices, but they finish their training 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: with us like technically, and so they are the ones 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 2: that are our highest priority right now because we don't 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: want to delay their career and we just want to 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: get it tied it up for them so that they 39 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: can graduate and they can go out. We need more 40 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: builders out on the tools so these people will go 41 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: out as fully qualified carpenters and then you know, their 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: employees can sign them off and everyone moves forward. And 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: what we found, well, yeah, sorry, go. 44 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: On, So what's the guy like at the moment? So 45 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: with these with these forty odd apprentices, So what do 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: they now have to do to make sure that they 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: are fully called able to get into the workforce. 48 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they're already in the workforce and the 49 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: training that they've done has been quite good. There's nothing 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: like that. This is not a performance issue. So the 51 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: training itself, and if you use that example of trusses 52 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: for instance, that's one of the units is to install trustes, 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 2: very common thing that carpenters do on the job. And 54 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: so in that unit of confidence, it or it asked 55 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: the students to demonstrate that they can install timber trustes 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: and steal trustes and we certainly taught them that through 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: the assessment process. When we were doing that internal validation, 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: what we found was that in the practical assessments, they 59 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: do stand up timber trusses, but they don't stand up 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: steel ones. So there's a gap. And so there's a 61 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: few instances like that and it all come about. There's 62 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: a couple of things that have sort of caused this. 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: One is that there was a transitioning qualification from an 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: old qual to a new one back in twenty twenty two, 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: and so at that point is when we it should 66 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: have been picked up. It wasn't, and so anyone that's 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: in the new quoll now has that there's a bit 68 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: of a loop that we've got to close there, and 69 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: so things like that. That's what we've done is we've 70 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: established a couple of different ways that we can satisfy it, because, 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: like I said, we want to have minimal impact on 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: our students and on our employers as well. So for 73 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: those that are out in industry that do steal trustes, 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 2: we're going to recognize that. So that's a conversation to 75 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: have with the employer and the student around what they 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: do on the job, and that closes that loop. If 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 2: they can't do that because that's not the type of 78 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: carpentry that they do, then we've got a workstation here. 79 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: And if you put all of those things all together, 80 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: end to end and did everything on campus, maximum time 81 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: commitment two weeks, still less than ideal, but minimal impact. 82 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: And we've actually got students coming on starting that on Monday. 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so they're starting on Monday, So are you confident 84 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: you'll be able to sort that all out and they'll 85 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: be able to get it sorted sort of as quickly 86 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: as possible. 87 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we've gone through everything with the fine tooth come. 88 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: We know what these thing these activities are that we 89 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: need to close up, and so we've established infrastructure there. 90 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: So any existing student will be doing it anyway. Right, So, 91 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: any existing carpentry student that comes in for their regular 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: trade school blocks, they're going to everything's there for them. 93 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: They're not affected. These ones that are at the point 94 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: of graduation. We're going to bring those in and or 95 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 2: they can if they can demonstrate workplace stuff. That's even 96 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: a smaller commitment. But they'll come in and like I say, 97 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: two weeks done and dusted, Michael. 98 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: It sounds like a good thing obviously that it's getting sorted, 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: but it does sound like it was a bit of 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: a balls up, like how did it happen? 101 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: Well, as I suggested before, as we transition from an 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: older Quoll back in twenty twenty two and then into 103 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, we have a new Quoll back in 104 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: that time, it was a case of well we've just 105 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: kept on going as it was all right now since 106 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: the inception of taste, we've built quite robust systems to 107 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: identify these types of things. So we're constantly checking ourselves 108 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: all the time. And so are you. 109 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: Confident now that you know that there's not going to 110 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: be sort of any other trades where you might have 111 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: a situation like this. 112 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the process is not just for carpentry, 113 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: it's for all of our quals and we progressively work through. 114 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: The good thing is is that these things don't pop 115 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: up very often, but when they do, we own them 116 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: because we stand by the integrity of the training that 117 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: we provide, and that's why we have these processes. And 118 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: so if something does come up and it could just 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: be a bit ambiguous, a little bit gray, well there's 120 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: your opportunity for improvement, and so that's what we do. 121 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: And whether we have to do it in retrospect or 122 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: whether we just do it from that point onwards in 123 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: time depends on the impact on the qualification and the 124 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: requirements of the qualification, because those qualifications are developed by 125 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: industry and our role is to ensure the integrity of 126 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: the training and the assessment is upheld, and so that's 127 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: why we constantly check it all the time. 128 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Charles Stowe University's pro vice Chancellor and Chief 129 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: Executive of Tafe, Michael Hamilton, really appreciate your time this morning. 130 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for having a chat with us. 131 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Katie, thank you.